Hey folks!
We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and #fedora-infrastructure IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request change. I don't know about the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to have a development conversation in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and #fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in another channel, it's fine too.
What do you think?
Aurélien
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:23 PM Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hey folks!
We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and #fedora-infrastructure IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request change. I don't know about the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to have a development conversation in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and #fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in another channel, it's fine too.
What do you think?
Yes -- i agree with moving the notifications to a separate channel.
I actually had a PR to change this already -- but just hadnt filed it yet. -- i have now:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/683
cheers, ryanlerch
Aurélien _______________________________________________ infrastructure mailing list -- infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to infrastructure-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/infrastructure@lists.fedorapro... Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 08:30:29PM +1000, Ryan Lerch wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:23 PM Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hey folks!
We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and #fedora-infrastructure IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request change. I don't know about the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to have a development conversation in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and #fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in another channel, it's fine too.
What do you think?
Yes -- i agree with moving the notifications to a separate channel.
I actually had a PR to change this already -- but just hadnt filed it yet. -- i have now:
I guess we can do this... I just dispair for irc channel sprawl. ;(
Is any level of messages useful in #fedora-apps?
Are there going to be any people who join a #fedora-apps-activity ?
I mean, we could just also drop it entirely if people don't want it. Or adjust it so only 'important' things go there.
Just some more thoughts...
kevin
On Tue, 2021-07-13 at 10:03 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 08:30:29PM +1000, Ryan Lerch wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:23 PM Aurelien Bompard abompard@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hey folks!
We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and #fedora-infrastructure IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request change. I don't know about the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to have a development conversation in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and #fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in another channel, it's fine too.
What do you think?
Yes -- i agree with moving the notifications to a separate channel.
I actually had a PR to change this already -- but just hadnt filed it yet. -- i have now:
I guess we can do this... I just dispair for irc channel sprawl. ;(
Is any level of messages useful in #fedora-apps?
Are there going to be any people who join a #fedora-apps-activity ?
I mean, we could just also drop it entirely if people don't want it. Or adjust it so only 'important' things go there.
I do find the level of messages pretty overwhelming. Especially when we're getting stuff like "edited the priority fields of ticket blah" and "assigned ticket blah to blah". It does make it very difficult to see actual conversations in the backscroll.
It does seem interesting that other groups don't do this and seem to function. We don't have all the QA-related trackers notifying #fedora- qa every time anyone touches a ticket, yet things still seem to work and the tickets aren't ignored...
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:33:58AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
I do find the level of messages pretty overwhelming. Especially when we're getting stuff like "edited the priority fields of ticket blah" and "assigned ticket blah to blah". It does make it very difficult to see actual conversations in the backscroll.
Yeah, I think the current level is pretty crazy.
It does seem interesting that other groups don't do this and seem to function. We don't have all the QA-related trackers notifying #fedora- qa every time anyone touches a ticket, yet things still seem to work and the tickets aren't ignored...
Sure, and perhaps we should just drop all the messages to #fedora-apps?
Dunno. I guess it's all a matter of workflow. One thing I keep trying to figure out how to prevent/reduce is what I think of as 'turning a pull request into a push request'. (note: lots of people do this, I am not singling anyone out!):
A: Hey, can you update foo for new bar? B: Sorry, I am busy, can you submit a PR? A: Sure! ...minutes pass... A: Hey B! I filed PR#123456 for that. Can you merge it? B: I'm still busy, but will look at it when I can, also CI is still running on it. ...time passes... A: Hey B: CI passed on PR#123456! can you merge it?
I don't know what the answer is to prevent that... I guess better expectations on how long to wait for a PR to be merged/reviewed? Committing to reviewing all PR's daily or weekly? A culture of assuming you can/should just submit a PR and let email notify people?
Anyhow, I suppose thats a sidetrack on this orig topic... I'm happy to change the notifications on #fedora-apps however fedora apps developers prefer.
kevin
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:59:15AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote: ...snip...
Duh, I forgot the thing that made me make this aside:
A: Hey, can you update foo for new bar? B: Sorry, I am busy, can you submit a PR? A: Sure! ...minutes pass...
fm-channelbot: PR#123456 filed on foo: Subject: adjust for new bar A: ^
A: Hey B! I filed PR#123456 for that. Can you merge it?
(just after the bot announced the thing)
B: I'm still busy, but will look at it when I can, also CI is still running on it. ...time passes... A: Hey B: CI passed on PR#123456! can you merge it?
kevin
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 10:03:29AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
I guess we can do this... I just dispair for irc channel sprawl. ;(
With Matrix (any day now!!!!!), we can group channels into Spaces, and as I understand it, these Spaces can contain arbitrary channels and other Spaces. So we could have one Space which consists entirely of notification message channels, and there could also be a Websites & Apps space which contains both the conversation channel _and_ the notifications one.
Yeah I see what you mean. I don't think IRC notifications are useless, but if they are in a different channel I can set this channel to be silent even on messages with my nickname. At the moment I get notified of my own actions which is extra annoying. The use case you described still generates less messages than notifications :-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed, reopened)?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 07:45:27AM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
Yeah I see what you mean. I don't think IRC notifications are useless, but if they are in a different channel I can set this channel to be silent even on messages with my nickname. At the moment I get notified of my own actions which is extra annoying.
Yeah. But if you silent the notification channel, do those notices do any good?
I guess I am just thinking of all the ways we get notified of things... email, then FMN, then this... I am not sure it helps, but perhaps I am not considering the right use case.
The use case you described still generates less messages than notifications :-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed, reopened)?
We should consider whats useful and only have those...
kevin
At the moment I get notified of my own actions which is extra annoying.
Yeah. But if you silent the notification channel, do those notices do any good?
I could decide to look at it when I'm waiting for something to finish, or re-enable temporarily the notifications if I'm waiting for something. Or just only subscribe to it when in this situation. Not sure. I don't care much about these IRC notifications, but I do care about people being able to ping me on IRC and having discussions there. Separating the notifications from the discussions would be useful for me, but maybe that's just my use case.
The use case you described still generates less messages than
notifications
:-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed, reopened)?
We should consider whats useful and only have those...
Yeah, I'm not the best person to ask because I don't really use them, I usually prefer looking at my email folders.
A.
On 15. 07. 21 2:03, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 07:45:27AM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
Yeah I see what you mean. I don't think IRC notifications are useless, but if they are in a different channel I can set this channel to be silent even on messages with my nickname. At the moment I get notified of my own actions which is extra annoying.
Yeah. But if you silent the notification channel, do those notices do any good?
I guess I am just thinking of all the ways we get notified of things... email, then FMN, then this... I am not sure it helps, but perhaps I am not considering the right use case.
The use case you described still generates less messages than notifications :-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed, reopened)?
We should consider whats useful and only have those...
I agree, having to go through tons of notifications will just end with them being ignored by people.
Michal
kevin
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So, how about this: Just disable notifications there in #fedora-apps for now.
If someone wants them (or a subset back), they can propose re-adding it there or in another channel?
kevin
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 06:43:21AM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
So, how about this: Just disable notifications there in #fedora-apps for now.
If someone wants them (or a subset back), they can propose re-adding it there or in another channel?
Works for me! Thanks!
ok. I dropped it for now.
We can of course always re-add it/adjust it again more later.
kevin
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