15:22 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Role call
15:22 < mmcgrath> who's here?
15:22 * ricky
15:23 < ricky> ivazquez: I think it was supposed to be ~20 minutes ago.
15:23 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i think we got messed up when DST ended
15:23 < mmcgrath> yeah
15:23 < dgilmore> we did not change with DST but used the same ust offset
15:24 * ricky will probably be unable to make meetings after a month or so,
15:24 < jcollie> heh need to add an alarm clock to zodbot
15:24 < ricky> Speaking of time... when were we going to change all time zones to
15:24 < mmcgrath> ricky: yeah we were.
15:25 < mmcgrath> ricky: its on our topic list sso lets get started
15:25 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Tickets
15:25 < mmcgrath> .tiny
15:25 < zodbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/2hyyz6
15:25 < paulobanon_> pong
15:25 * paulobanon_ thanks ivazquez
15:25 < mmcgrath> so first ticket
15:26 < mmcgrath> .ticket 347
15:26 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #347 (Set localtime on all our servers to UTC) - Fedora
Infrastructure - Trac -
15:26 < mmcgrath> I think the only main questions about this are 1) notifying
everyone that the change is going to happen 2) making sure none of our apps break and 3)
doing the implementation.
15:27 < mmcgrath> I've given some thought to 2 and while it might look a little
odd for people going back and looking through things (like when something was built, or
cacti graphs) that time might just disappear.
15:27 < paulobanon_> i think its a good thing to have
15:27 -!- glezos [n=glezos@fedora/glezos] has joined #fedora-meeting
15:27 < mmcgrath> yeah I don't think anyone is against it (if they are speak
15:28 < mmcgrath> Anyone particularly interested in owning this task? I've got
a backlog of stuff I've been working on.
15:28 < dgilmore> i can own it if noone else wants to
15:28 < mmcgrath> well, either way its a ticket so it'll get worked on sooner or
15:28 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: I say if no one claims it by tomorrow, go ahead and take
15:28 < mmcgrath> anyone else have any questions on that?
15:28 < dgilmore> everyone has been for the change
15:29 < ricky> It does require a reboot/downtime, right?
15:29 < mmcgrath> yeah, just a matter of doing it.
15:29 < mmcgrath> ricky: AFAIK, yes.
15:29 < dgilmore> ricky: at minimum service restarts
15:29 < mmcgrath> at least thats the safe way to do it.
15:29 < dgilmore> easier to reboot
15:29 < ricky> Ah, OK.
15:30 < mmcgrath> Alrighty, anyone have anything else on that?
15:30 < mmcgrath> .ticket 365
15:30 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #365 (mailman setup (project/hosted)) - Fedora
Infrastructure - Trac -
15:30 < mmcgrath> So we now have the collab servers up and can, in theory, run our
own mailman instances. We will be doing this for fedorahosted.
15:30 < mmcgrath> the question is how to proceed with the fedoraproject.
15:30 < mmcgrath> jcollie: ping
15:30 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: ping
15:31 < jcollie> hello!!!
15:31 < mmcgrath> jcollie: yo
15:31 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: should could we run all of fedora's mailing lists
15:31 < ricky> I don't think we've really had many problems with Red
Hat's mailman, so at the very least, there's no need to rush over at once.
15:31 < mmcgrath> so right now jcollie is point man on implementation and getting
mailman actually installed. dgilmore has recently be charged by the board to figure out
what our mail system should do.
15:31 < jcollie> i think that the main issue with fedoraproject is how to get mail
from bastion over to collab1
15:32 < mmcgrath> ricky: thats been my primary push against hosting it ourselves
though now we have the space to do it.
15:32 * jcollie thinks we should use exim :)
15:32 * dgilmore slaps jcollie
15:32 < mmcgrath> heheh
15:32 < dgilmore> :)
15:32 < mmcgrath> so there are two options here as I see them.
15:32 < mmcgrath> 1) *-list(a)fedoraproject.org and @lists.fedoraproject.org
15:33 < mmcgrath> upon thinking about it, from the user side I'd prefer
*-list(a)fedoraproject.org and from the infrastructure team side I'd prefer
15:33 < mmcgrath> anyone have opinions on it?
15:33 < dgilmore> ricky: one thing id like to do is have a fedora themed interface
for Red Hats mailman that could be accessed via lists.fedoraproject.org
or something like that
15:33 < ricky> I'm leaning towards lists.fedoraproject.org
too. It'll be
annoying to have to blacklist a ton of mailing list names in FAS.
15:34 < dgilmore> ricky: i agree
15:34 < mmcgrath> jcollie: what are your thoughts on it?
15:34 < ivazquez> It'll be far simpler to use @lists.
15:34 < dgilmore> i like simple
15:34 < ricky> dgilmore: Ah, good point. Currently, the admin interfaces for lists
allow some (probably limited) control over templates, but it'll definitely be easier
with our own setup.
15:34 < paulobanon_> +1
15:34 < jcollie> i like *-firstname.lastname@example.org... i don't think it's that
hard to implement
15:35 < dgilmore> ricky: and id like to alias each list on redhat.com
15:35 < EvilBob> will this break users filters?
15:35 < mmcgrath> EvilBob: almost certainly.
15:35 < jcollie> if we go with lists.fedoraproject.org
we should probably make that
the admin interface rather than admin.fp.o/mailman
15:36 < mmcgrath> jcollie: ssl / ip restriction issues.
15:37 < mmcgrath> We're just tight on ssl certs and ip's and its so much
easier to just use whats there. Afterall, you've already got admin.fp.o/mailman setup
15:37 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: :) agreed
15:37 < mmcgrath> and we can have a non-ssl lists.fp.o site for the archives if we
wanted instead of fedoraproject.org
15:37 < jcollie> well, i guess i don't have super strong feelings either way...
sending mail to lists.fedoraproject.org
would be super simple
15:38 < dgilmore> i think admin.fp.o is a well known admin area
15:38 < mmcgrath> k
15:38 < mmcgrath> jcollie: and as for fedorahosted.org
, we've not really talked
directly about that but is it something you'd be interested in doing as well?
15:38 < dgilmore> so the question comes down. do we want to manage all lists?
15:38 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: do you mean as in admin each list, or host them?
15:38 -!- MrBawb [i=abob(a)guppy.drown.org] has joined #fedora-meeting
15:39 < paulobanon_> dgilmore: what's the board position on that ?
15:39 < jcollie> yeah the puppet configs i've been working on should make it a
snap to do it for fedorahosted... you'll need to run it on a different host than
15:39 < dgilmore> or do we want to have some way to manage hosted lists ourselves
and have our own frontend to the mailmain instance provided by Red Hat
15:39 < ricky> Aw, so there'd have to be two separate setups?
15:39 < dgilmore> paulobanon_: boards take is what do the users want/ and is simple
15:40 < jcollie> ricky: yeah... virtual hosting in mailman is possible but a lot
15:40 < mmcgrath> jcollie: <nod> we'll be runing them on the hsoted box.
15:41 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: whats your prefered way with the fedoraproject mail?
15:41 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: im kinda leaning towards keeping them on the RH side
just because its less work
15:41 < paulobanon_> i dont have a personal feeling either way, but we should
consider the administration costs vs the benefits :)
15:42 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: should we have jcollie focus on fedorahosted for now?
15:42 < dgilmore> but having some fedora frontends for it
15:42 < jcollie> i'd say any new fedora related lists we run on collab1 but keep
the existing ones @redhat
15:42 < paulobanon_> dgilmore: aka fedora look n'feel :)
15:42 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: probably unless he wants to setup for all and we work a
migration plan away from @lists.redhat.com
15:42 < dgilmore> paulobanon_: yeah
15:43 < ricky> Personally, I kind of like having the same interface on all mailman
instances that I use.
15:43 < mmcgrath> jcollie: so from here on, what would it take to get a mailing list
setup for the @fedorahosted.org people?
15:44 < lmacken> ugh.. mailman
15:44 < jcollie> well, i've got to get the puppet configs finished, then
it's a matter of applying them to the fedorahosted box
15:45 < jcollie> new lists can be created by editing the puppet configs so pretty
easy to admin
15:45 < abadger1999> jcollie: I like one-stop-shopping though. So having
fedora-infrastructure on rh.com
and fedora-devel-ng on fedoraproject.org
seems like a
15:45 < mmcgrath> jcollie: ahh, thats one thing I wanted to talk to you about.
15:45 < abadger1999> (Refering to all new lists on collab1)
15:45 < mmcgrath> So as it stands, none of the fedorahosted projects are in puppet,
we have them all under /srv on fedorahosted and we run a script to create them.
15:45 < ricky> Cool - I always assumed that they were created by a script.
15:46 < jcollie> abadger1999: yeah, but you're gonna break bazillions of people
mail filters by moving the lists
15:46 < mmcgrath> jcollie: and thats the real dilema, whats the benefit of the
15:46 * nirik notes we could look at the mailing list reorg at the same time as moving
15:46 < ricky> I don't see huge benefits in moving - right now, the big thing is
that we're gaining the ability to create lists quickly, right?
15:47 < jcollie> 1) it's run on the fedora infrastructure 2) we can give the
front ends the fedora look'n'feel
15:47 < lmacken> it may also be a good opportunity to look into toshio's
notification server ideas
15:47 < lmacken> .ticket 151
15:47 < zodbot> lmacken: #151 (Explore idea of a notification server) - Fedora
Infrastructure - Trac -
15:47 < notting> can we do #2 without actually moving things?
15:47 < mmcgrath> number 2) might be able to be done without moving things.
15:47 < jcollie> yeah, we can create new lists as quickly as you can edit the puppet
15:47 < mmcgrath> notting: dgilmore is working on that. or looking into it.
15:47 < EvilBob> Is having "quick lists" a real long term bene however?
then we end up with less thought going in to lists and a bunch of poorly planned dead
15:48 < mmcgrath> jcollie: I don't know that we want to do that in puppet
though, we might just want to script it on hosted like we do with the rest of the hosted
15:48 < mmcgrath> its kind of an odd "content vs config" mix on
15:49 < EvilBob> icanhascheezymailinglist?
15:49 < mmcgrath> jcollie: here's how we currently create hosted projects (it
could use some work) -
15:49 < jcollie> yeah, it is a little bit wierd because you can only affect the
initial setup of the lists... any other config changes have to be done through the normal
15:49 < dgilmore> notting: im trying to find out what it would take to give the
@redhat.com lists a fedora look and feel without breaking anything
15:49 < mmcgrath> jcollie: we can chat about that after the meeting whats the best
way to create / maintain the lists.
15:50 < jcollie> mmcgrath: i'm good either way...
15:50 < mmcgrath> jcollie: excellent. So for now I think the path of least
resistance (and way to prove that it'll be easy for us) is to get mailman setup in
15:50 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: will you continue to look into this branded issue /
15:51 < jcollie> yeah that'll be pretty easy
15:51 < mmcgrath> jcollie: in that case I have... YET ANOTHER group for you to join
15:51 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster_work
15:51 < jcollie> heh heh
15:51 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: yep i will
15:52 < mmcgrath> solid, so for now I'll leave this on the meeting. It seems to
be a pretty hot topic at times, might as well continue talking about it.
15:52 < mmcgrath> anyone have anything else on that? if not we'll move on (we
started alte so we don't have much time left)
15:52 < jcollie> i think that we should set some standard for fh.o list names
15:53 < mmcgrath> <nod> I'll add that to the ticket.
15:53 < jcollie> i propose <project>-<something>-list
(-<something>) could be omitted
15:53 < mmcgrath> right now we don't really have anything like that.
15:53 < mmcgrath> just a reminder for those interested in followign the ticket, add
yourselves to the cc
15:54 < mmcgrath> .ticket 365
15:54 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #365 (mailman setup (project/hosted)) - Fedora
Infrastructure - Trac -
15:54 < mmcgrath> ok, next ticket
15:54 < mmcgrath> .ticket 270
15:54 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #270 (Fedora Wiki allows editing raw HTML) - Fedora
Infrastructure - Trac -
15:54 < mmcgrath> ricky: ^^^ d00d
15:54 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: ^^
15:54 < mmcgrath> we're just waiting on the 1.6 moin epel instance?
15:54 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: are you blocking on me for something there?
15:54 < paulobanon_> pending on
15:54 < paulobanon_> .ticket 363
15:54 < zodbot> paulobanon_: #363 (fedoraproject.org/wiki
- Moin upgrade) - Fedora
Infrastructure - Trac -
15:54 < paulobanon_> :)
15:54 < mmcgrath> k, did moin 1.6 make it into epel yet or was that waiting on me to
15:54 < ricky> Getting somewhat pressed for time too, unfortunately :(
15:55 < paulobanon_> so mmcgrath since i dont have any koji access if you could
throw a build it would be nice
15:55 < mmcgrath> ricky: thats ok, thanks for letting us know, I'll make sure to
not pile so much stuff on ya :)
15:55 < paulobanon_> thias only commited his stuff to devel
15:56 < paulobanon_> we are allowed to co-maintain the package if we want, so its
not pending on anyone anymore besides us
15:56 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: would you mind rebuilding the srpm for EL-5 and
giving it a quick test? If not no worries I'll do it before I rebuild it'll just
take me a bit.
15:56 < paulobanon_> mmcgrath: ill try to fit that tomorrow on my todo list
15:56 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: excellent, I appreciate it.
15:56 < mmcgrath> Ok, last ticket.
15:56 < paulobanon_> ill rebuild it in CentOS5.1 ?!
15:57 < mmcgrath> .ticket 302
15:57 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #302 (Moin patches) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac -
15:57 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: that'd work fine, you can even just rebuild it on
15:57 < mmcgrath> MrBawb: ping
15:57 * ricky didn't get a reply to the epydoc package yet either.
15:58 -!- petreu [n=peter@fedora/Standby] has quit "( www.nnscript.de
4.02 :: www.XLhost.de
15:58 < mmcgrath> MrBawb: ping?
15:58 < mmcgrath> we can come back to that, almost out of time.
15:58 < mmcgrath> thats the last of the tickets, I did have one SOP I added this
15:59 < mmcgrath>
15:59 < mmcgrath> how to make RPM's and sign for the infrastructure repo.
15:59 < mmcgrath> And thats really the last of the things that I've got
15:59 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Open Floor
16:00 < mmcgrath> Anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
16:00 < ricky> I might have missed this in the past week or so, but any update on
the xen1 problems?
16:00 < MrBawb> mmcgrath: oh, I'm here now
16:00 < mmcgrath> ricky: sorry, yes I closed the ticket, the old FC6 and the new
RHEL5 kernel both fixed the problem. Just waiting for RH to release the official RPM for
16:01 < mmcgrath> MrBawb: anything new with ticket 302?
16:01 < MrBawb> work's been busy lately, so I haven't made any progress
16:01 < mmcgrath> no worries, thanks for the update.
16:01 < mmcgrath> alllrighty, and with that we're at the end of the meeting
(Sorry for starting so late)
16:01 < abadger1999> Quick update: Vacuum policy for postgres dbs. I'll be
running a script to accumulate some stats.
16:01 < ricky> mmcgrath: Aha, nice.
16:01 < abadger1999> Then create a cron job to vacuum tables.
16:02 < abadger1999> Should be in place next week.
16:02 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: excellent, it will be nice to be able to benchmark
whats going on there. One of the problems we had this last time was "that feels
slow" but had no actual data to back up how it used to be.
16:02 < mmcgrath> If no one has anything else, I'll close the meeting in 30
16:02 < paulobanon_> mmcgrath: stickum, i'm trying to package it correctly, and
i'll probably ask some stuff to our TG gurus (lmacken and abadger1999) :)
16:02 -!- giarc_w [i=hidden-u(a)gnat.asiscan.com] has quit "Leaving"
16:03 < mmcgrath> paulobanon_: thats excellent.
16:03 < mmcgrath> 15
16:03 < mmcgrath> 10
16:03 < ricky> Hm, did nirik have a package too?
16:03 < mmcgrath> nirik: ping
16:03 < paulobanon_> ricky: its the same :)
16:03 < mmcgrath> ahh well then
16:03 < mmcgrath> nirik: unping
16:03 < paulobanon_> hehe
16:03 < ricky> paulobanon_: Aha - I've kind of lost track of things this week.
16:03 < mmcgrath> ok guys, thanks for coming
16:03 < nirik> I started working on one, but paulobanon_ wanted to, so I gave him
what I had. ;)
16:03 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Meeting