Collaboration Servers!

[Mike McGrath]

collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include

1) gobby (its AMAZING)
2) pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
3) mailman.

So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.

My only request for pastebin is that we use something that has an
upstream, and that we don't modify it other then to create a template for
that good ol' fedora look and feel.

If someone wants to do a part (paulo, you'd mentioned some interest) just
let me know.  These types of servers also fall under "tools" so you'll
need to be part of the sysadmin-tools FIG.

-Mike

[Ramez Hanna]

I would like to take on any of those
i may not have experience with any of them but i can do it
-  
Ramez Hanna
informatiq.org

GPG Key
38A7 33A4 B5F6 840E A656 9010 57DF 4FF2 833F 051B

On Wed, 2008-01-30 at 15:15 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> mailman.
>
> So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.
>
> My only request for pastebin is that we use something that has an
> upstream, and that we don't modify it other then to create a template for
> that good ol' fedora look and feel.
>
> If someone wants to do a part (paulo, you'd mentioned some interest) just
> let me know.  These types of servers also fall under "tools" so you'll
> need to be part of the sysadmin-tools FIG.
>
> -Mike
>
> Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list

[Michael Stahnke]

I maintain the pastebin rpm for Fedora and upstream just released a
new version.  I can bump it and get it into Fedora this week if
pastebin is actually what we want to use.  Sounds like we have a lot
of options though.  For examples of pastebin, visit paste.ausil.us

stahnma

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On 1/30/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> mailman.

I've some experience with mailman, so I could work on that...

Jeff

[Paulo Santos]

Mike,

For pastebin, we have been testing with stickum. Upstream at
http://code.google.com/p/stickum/ (maybe we could talk with the project
owner to move it to fedorahosted, since it would have more visibility and
more development?!)
We currently have 3 of our own well know colleagues (abadger, ricky,
lmacken) with commit access on the repository, so upstream is always
guaranteed.

I'm currently following up on the work from nirik to package stickum. I know
that daMaestro, might also be looking into this, so i will most likely talk
to him for ideas and help on this. I will also definitely try to get some
help from our TG gurus (lmacken + abadger) on the best way to package this
TG app.

I will request membership of sysadmin-tools during this week.

Thanks,
Paulo

On Jan 30, 2008 9:23 PM, Jeffrey Ollie  wrote:
> On 1/30/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > mailman.
>
> I've some experience with mailman, so I could work on that...
>
> Jeff
>
> Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Jan 30, 2008 2:23 PM, Jeffrey Ollie  wrote:
> On 1/30/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > mailman.
>
> I've some experience with mailman, so I could work on that...

Me too. I can help with this.

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Jeffrey Ollie  wrote:
> On 1/30/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > mailman.
>
> I've some experience with mailman, so I could work on that...

I can help with this..

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Jeffrey Ollie  wrote:
> > On 1/30/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > > mailman.
> >
> > I've some experience with mailman, so I could work on that...
>
> I can help with this..

Wow.. I should check my datestamps before replying.. shoot I didnt
realize I was replying to 22 day old email.

[Jonathan Steffan]

Mike McGrath wrote:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)

Yes, it is (though it needs transaction support so "undo" can save a mis
-edit). Fedora Unity has been using it for a while now and we really
like it.
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)

Ok, well Fedora Unity has already setup a stickum instance. I'm all for
a fedora hosted one as we are still low on resources. I might be able to
help with this. I'm also going to send off yet another message to
upstream and ask for commit access.

I have the srpm that nirik did, has there been more progress on the
packaging or should I work on that first?
> mailman.

I almost loath configuring mailman, so I'll deffer on this ;-)

[Mike McGrath]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Jonathan Steffan wrote:
> Mike McGrath wrote:
> > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > gobby (its AMAZING)
>
> Yes, it is (though it needs transaction support so "undo" can save a mis
> -edit). Fedora Unity has been using it for a while now and we really
> like it.
> > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
>
> Ok, well Fedora Unity has already setup a stickum instance. I'm all for
> a fedora hosted one as we are still low on resources. I might be able to
> help with this. I'm also going to send off yet another message to
> upstream and ask for commit access.
>
> I have the srpm that nirik did, has there been more progress on the
> packaging or should I work on that first?

Good question, I'll poke around online and see how far this has gotten.

-Mike

[Mike McGrath]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Mike McGrath wrote:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> mailman.
>
> So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.
>
> My only request for pastebin is that we use something that has an
> upstream, and that we don't modify it other then to create a template for
> that good ol' fedora look and feel.
>
> If someone wants to do a part (paulo, you'd mentioned some interest) just
> let me know.  These types of servers also fall under "tools" so you'll
> need to be part of the sysadmin-tools FIG.

Forgot a couple of things

1) All of this needs to be in puppet
2) we'll rebuild the box to make sure its all in puppet.

-Mike

[Luke Macken]

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:15:22PM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> mailman.
>
> So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.

Yeah, I'm down.

A few initial concerns I have with deploying a production Gobby instance:

- Lack of ACLs.  It will be a bit of a free-for-all, but that could possibly
   be a very good thing.  There is really no sort of document heirarchy, and
   you can either set a single server-wide password, or none at all.

- We can setup sobby to save its state after a given interval, but
   people need to be aware that their data is not safe, and they should
   save locally -- often.  Undo does not exist.

I think a single sobby instance will probably be fine for now.  In the long run,
it may be interesting to setup some sort of system that allows users to
create new collaboration sessions with others instantly.  It may be
an idea worth hashing out at some point.
> My only request for pastebin is that we use something that has an
> upstream, and that we don't modify it other then to create a template for
> that good ol' fedora look and feel.

Stickum[0] has been pretty nice so far in my experience.  My only beef with
http://f3dora.org so far has been the fact that sometimes it's quite
slow.  If we want to take this route, the first step would be to get
stickum into Fedora.  Does anyone have any details as to how f3dora.org
is currently deployed ?

There is already an open Fedora Pastebin ticket:
    https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/53

luke

[0]: http://code.google.com/p/stickum/

[Jeffrey Tadlock]

On Jan 30, 2008 8:39 PM, Luke Macken  wrote:
> Stickum[0] has been pretty nice so far in my experience.  My only beef with
> http://f3dora.org so far has been the fact that sometimes it's quite
> slow.

Jonathan can step in with more details, but the f3dora.org slowness is
a hardware resource issue.  The f3dora.org box runs the other Fedora
Unity sites as well - on 512MB of RAM.

later,
Jeffrey

[Jonathan Steffan]

Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2008 8:39 PM, Luke Macken  wrote:
> > Stickum[0] has been pretty nice so far in my experience.  My only beef with
> > http://f3dora.org so far has been the fact that sometimes it's quite
> > slow.
>
> Jonathan can step in with more details, but the f3dora.org slowness is
> a hardware resource issue.  The f3dora.org box runs the other Fedora
> Unity sites as well - on 512MB of RAM.

Well, we are running a modified stickum using sqlite as a backend. The
server also runs Zope, FDS, Postfix, Amavisd (with all the plugins such
as clam, spamassassin, etc), apache, and squid - yes, on 512MB of RAM.

It's running in a screen session, so don't judge the performance based
on what we have managed to setup. I know it's annoyingly slow (well, it
gets there after a little usage) and have been poking infrastructure
about getting a Fedora hosted one online. Fedora Unity is getting a
server upgrade with 4xRAM (so 2GB) but I don't know when I'll manage to
get things migrated. I need to test FDS 1.1 more and see if migration is
going to be smooth.

[Marek Mahut]

Mike McGrath wrote:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)

I'd also suggest to consider http://paste.snow-crash.org/ it's nice and
it has even xmlrpc interface. Source available at
http://git.snow-crash.org/?p=paste.pl.git;a=summary
> mailman.
>
> So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.
>
> My only request for pastebin is that we use something that has an
> upstream, and that we don't modify it other then to create a template for
> that good ol' fedora look and feel.
>
> If someone wants to do a part (paulo, you'd mentioned some interest) just
> let me know.  These types of servers also fall under "tools" so you'll
> need to be part of the sysadmin-tools FIG.
>
> -Mike

[John Poelstra]

Mike McGrath said the following on 01/30/2008 01:15 PM Pacific Time:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> mailman.

4) vnc ?

Is there any possibility of application (doesn't have to be vnc) whereby 
multiple people could view the same desktop?

This would be very help for training and collaboration.

John

[Jonathan Steffan]

John Poelstra wrote:
> Mike McGrath said the following on 01/30/2008 01:15 PM Pacific Time:
> > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > gobby (its AMAZING)
> > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> > mailman.
> vnc ?
>
> Is there any possibility of application (doesn't have to be vnc) whereby
> multiple people could view the same desktop?
>
> This would be very help for training and collaboration.

On brief though, this is a neat idea. I would, however, think server
resources could be put to better use and trainers could use screen
casting and upload to their fedora people account.

[Mike McGrath]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, John Poelstra wrote:
> Mike McGrath said the following on 01/30/2008 01:15 PM Pacific Time:
> > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > gobby (its AMAZING)
> > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> > mailman.
> vnc ?
>
> Is there any possibility of application (doesn't have to be vnc) whereby
> multiple people could view the same desktop?
>
> This would be very help for training and collaboration.

This is something I'd talked to John about maybe a month or two back and
came up blank.  Aside from screen casting (which AFAIK, isn't live, only
recorded and played back) I don't know of anything like this aside from
VNC and it seems ill-suited to this job over a WAN link.  Anyone have any
experience with something that does just that?

-Mike

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On 1/31/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, John Poelstra wrote:
> > Mike McGrath said the following on 01/30/2008 01:15 PM Pacific Time:
> > > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > > gobby (its AMAZING)
> > > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> > > mailman.
> > vnc ?
> >
> > Is there any possibility of application (doesn't have to be vnc) whereby
> > multiple people could view the same desktop?
> >
> > This would be very help for training and collaboration.
>
> This is something I'd talked to John about maybe a month or two back and
> came up blank.  Aside from screen casting (which AFAIK, isn't live, only
> recorded and played back) I don't know of anything like this aside from
> VNC and it seems ill-suited to this job over a WAN link.  Anyone have any
> experience with something that does just that?

Spoleeba pointed out on IRC a couple of days ago that DimDim has an
open source version, however the source code is pretty messy and it
could take some time to get it packaged up for Fedora.

Jeff

[Mike McGrath]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> On 1/31/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, John Poelstra wrote:
> > > Mike McGrath said the following on 01/30/2008 01:15 PM Pacific Time:
> > > > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > > > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > > > gobby (its AMAZING)
> > > > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> > > > mailman.
> > > vnc ?
> > >
> > > Is there any possibility of application (doesn't have to be vnc) whereby
> > > multiple people could view the same desktop?
> > >
> > > This would be very help for training and collaboration.
> >
> > This is something I'd talked to John about maybe a month or two back and
> > came up blank.  Aside from screen casting (which AFAIK, isn't live, only
> > recorded and played back) I don't know of anything like this aside from
> > VNC and it seems ill-suited to this job over a WAN link.  Anyone have any
> > experience with something that does just that?
>
> Spoleeba pointed out on IRC a couple of days ago that DimDim has an
> open source version, however the source code is pretty messy and it
> could take some time to get it packaged up for Fedora.

I looked at dimdim briefly, does their OSS version have a license we can
use in Fedora?

-Mike

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On 1/31/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> I looked at dimdim briefly, does their OSS version have a license we can
> use in Fedora?

It's GPL:

http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_license.html

There are some dependencies on at least two third party libraries that
aren't in Fedora.  I haven't checked their licenses to see if they are
compatible yet.

http://www.terabit.com.au/solutions.php (TProactor)
http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html (ACE)

Also, there's a lot of code I haven't looked at yet so there may be
other surprises in there.

Jeff

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On 1/31/08, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> I looked at dimdim briefly, does their OSS version have a license we can
> use in Fedora?

One other blocker is that their service claims to require IE 6.0 and
the Adobe flash plugin to host a meeting. They say that attending a
meeting works with FF but still requires the flash plugin.  It's
unknown whether the swfdec code in Fedora works with their service.
And actually, I don't know anyone that has actually used their
service/software yet so I don't really know how good it is.

Jeff

[Rahul Sundaram]

Mike McGrath wrote:
> I looked at dimdim briefly, does their OSS version have a license we can
> use in Fedora?

GPL+FLOSS exception similar to MySQL or QT. so should be acceptable.

http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_license.html

Also might want to talk to Greg Dek since he has expressed interest in it.

Rahul

[Luke Macken]

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:15:22PM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> gobby (its AMAZING)
> pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> mailman.
>
> So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.

Sobby (the standalone obby server) is now running on gobby.fedoraproject.org.

I also setup a cronjob to `git add . ; git commit -a` everything in the session hourly,
and changes can be viewed via gitweb[0].

luke

[0]: http://gobby.fedoraproject.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=sobby/.git;a=summary

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Luke Macken  wrote:
> Sobby (the standalone obby server) is now running on gobby.fedoraproject.org.
>
> I also setup a cronjob to `git add . ; git commit -a` everything in the session hourly,
>  and changes can be viewed via gitweb[0].

This is a good feature, however we should make it *very* clear somehow
that the text is being logged.

-d

[Luke Macken]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:23:27AM +0200, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Luke Macken  wrote:
> > Sobby (the standalone obby server) is now running on gobby.fedoraproject.org.
> >
> > I also setup a cronjob to `git add . ; git commit -a` everything in the session hourly,
> >  and changes can be viewed via gitweb[0].
>
> This is a good feature, however we should make it *very* clear somehow
> that the text is being logged.

Agreed.  I mention that all files get committed to revision control in
the README on the server, and in my blog post.  Feel free to note this
anywhere else you see applicable.

luke

[Yaakov Nemoy]

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Luke Macken  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:15:22PM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > gobby (its AMAZING)
> > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> > mailman.
> >
> > So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> > get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> > I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.
>
> Sobby (the standalone obby server) is now running on gobby.fedoraproject.org.
>
> I also setup a cronjob to `git add . ; git commit -a` everything in the session hourly,
>  and changes can be viewed via gitweb[0].
>
> luke

I get a 403 error from trying to view that gitweb repo.

Otherwise, pretty awesome.

-Yaakov

[Luke Macken]

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 11:08:38PM -0500, Yaakov Nemoy wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Luke Macken  wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:15:22PM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> > > collab1.fedoraproject.org is up and running.  Yahoo!  So whats missing?
> > > Well, it doesn't actually do anything yet.  Plans for it include
> > > gobby (its AMAZING)
> > > pastebin or something like it (also amazing)
> > > mailman.
> > >
> > > So who wants to set up what?  Luke, you'd mentioned you might be able to
> > > get gobby up sometime this week / next.  Is that still the case?  If so
> > > I'll open a ticket and assign it to you.
> >
> > Sobby (the standalone obby server) is now running on gobby.fedoraproject.org.
> >
> > I also setup a cronjob to `git add . ; git commit -a` everything in the session hourly,
> >  and changes can be viewed via gitweb[0].
> >
> > luke
>
> I get a 403 error from trying to view that gitweb repo.
>
> Otherwise, pretty awesome.

Ugh, SELinux.

Should be "fixed", for now.  I threw together a SELinux policy for sobby
tonight;  I'll look into getting it working tomorrow.

luke