Java build systems stop requiring java-devel

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

Java build systems (Ant, Maven, Gradle) used to require "java-devel"
because their typical usages involves code compilation, which requires
full JDK.

In Fedora 23 I've just replaced hard requirement on "java-devel" with
recommends. From now on Ant, Maven and Gradle require "java-headlesss"
and recommend "java-devel", which means that by default they will still
be installed with full JDK, but it will be possible to install and use
them with just headless JRE.

-- 
Mikolaj Izdebski
Software Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: mizdebsk

[Peter Larsen]

On Jul 10, 2015 8:39 AM, "Mikolaj Izdebski" <mizdebsk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Java build systems (Ant, Maven, Gradle) used to require "java-devel"
>  because their typical usages involves code compilation, which requires
>  full JDK.
>
>  In Fedora 23 I've just replaced hard requirement on "java-devel" with
>  recommends. 
Why? Most builds require javac. Unless you are only installing and not
building why would you not want the java-devel?

> From now on Ant, Maven and Gradle require "java-headlesss"
>  and recommend "java-devel", which means that by default they will still
>  be installed with full JDK, but it will be possible to install and use
>  them with just headless JRE.
>
>  --
>  Mikolaj Izdebski
>  Software Engineer, Red Hat
>  IRC: mizdebsk
>  --
>  java-devel mailing list
>  java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On 07/13/2015 01:49 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
>  On Jul 10, 2015 8:39 AM, "Mikolaj Izdebski"
> <mizdebsk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> >
> > Java build systems (Ant, Maven, Gradle) used to require "java-devel"
> > because their typical usages involves code compilation, which requires
> > full JDK.
> >
> > In Fedora 23 I've just replaced hard requirement on "java-devel" with
> > recommends.
>  
>  Why? Most builds require javac. 
That's exactly my point - *most*, but not all.

>  Unless you are only installing and not
>  building why would you not want the java-devel? 
Ant, Maven and Gradle are generic build systems. While they are
typically used for building Java projects, they are certainly capable of
more.

Some examples:
- Maven supports "toolkits", which allow you to compile project with
third-party JDK; in this case Maven can be ran with pure JRE
- Ant, Maven and Gradle can all be used to compile non-Java code (such as C)
- I've seen Ant scripts used for application deployment, which don't
compile anything, but download and copy files around
- Maven can also be used for app deployment (for eg. wildfly:deploy)
- I've seen Maven used for static website gerenation (convert Markdown
to HTML, apply templates, fetch CSS and JavaScript resources from remote
repos, assemble WAR file)

and so on...

-- 
Mikolaj Izdebski
Software Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: mizdebsk

[Christopher]

I've also seen cases where a package depended on a class from the build
system's jar at runtime (especially ant and maven), but the user has no
intention of using the build system to build anything... They just needed
to satisfy the runtime dependency. So, overall, I think this makes sense.

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015, 23:44 Mikolaj Izdebski <mizdebsk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 07/13/2015 01:49 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
>  > On Jul 10, 2015 8:39 AM, "Mikolaj Izdebski" <mizdebsk(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
>  >>
>  >> Java build systems (Ant, Maven, Gradle) used to require "java-devel"
>  >> because their typical usages involves code compilation, which requires
>  >> full JDK.
>  >>
>  >> In Fedora 23 I've just replaced hard requirement on "java-devel"
> with
>  >> recommends.
>  >
>  > Why? Most builds require javac.
>
>  That's exactly my point - *most*, but not all.
>
>  > Unless you are only installing and not
>  > building why would you not want the java-devel?
>
>  Ant, Maven and Gradle are generic build systems. While they are
>  typically used for building Java projects, they are certainly capable of
>  more.
>
>  Some examples:
>  - Maven supports "toolkits", which allow you to compile project with
>  third-party JDK; in this case Maven can be ran with pure JRE
>  - Ant, Maven and Gradle can all be used to compile non-Java code (such as
>  C)
>  - I've seen Ant scripts used for application deployment, which don't
>  compile anything, but download and copy files around
>  - Maven can also be used for app deployment (for eg. wildfly:deploy)
>  - I've seen Maven used for static website gerenation (convert Markdown
>  to HTML, apply templates, fetch CSS and JavaScript resources from remote
>  repos, assemble WAR file)
>
>  and so on...
>
>  --
>  Mikolaj Izdebski
>  Software Engineer, Red Hat
>  IRC: mizdebsk
>  --
>  java-devel mailing list
>  java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel