Remove "EE APIs" section from guidelines?

[Michal Srb]

Hi folks,

I would like to propose a small change to our Java packaging guidelines. 
The change is simple: remove whole "Packaging and using EE APIs" section 
[1]. As far as I can tell, there is currently no Java package fully 
conforming with this section in Fedora. I also think that from 
maintenance perspective, it's better not to have our hands tied with 
guidelines (in such less important matters), but to be able act 
accordingly to current situation in Fedora. The matter of which package 
should provide which EE API can be discussed here on java-devel ML. We 
can easily reevaluate our decision before every Fedora release, without 
need to change the guidelines every time.

Please let me know what you think of this proposal. We can arrange 
java-sig IRC meeting, or we can discuss and vote here. I personally 
prefer the latter option.

Thanks,
Michal

[1]: 
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMsrb%2FJavaPackagingDr...

[Mikolaj Izdebski]

On 03/10/2015 08:57 AM, Michal Srb wrote:
>  Hi folks,
>  
>  I would like to propose a small change to our Java packaging guidelines.
>  The change is simple: remove whole "Packaging and using EE APIs" section
>  [1]. As far as I can tell, there is currently no Java package fully
>  conforming with this section in Fedora. I also think that from
>  maintenance perspective, it's better not to have our hands tied with
>  guidelines (in such less important matters), but to be able act
>  accordingly to current situation in Fedora. The matter of which package
>  should provide which EE API can be discussed here on java-devel ML. We
>  can easily reevaluate our decision before every Fedora release, without
>  need to change the guidelines every time.
>  
>  Please let me know what you think of this proposal. We can arrange
>  java-sig IRC meeting, or we can discuss and vote here. I personally
>  prefer the latter option. 
+1 from me. I never really understood why this section was added in the
first place.

-- 
Mikolaj Izdebski
Software Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: mizdebsk

[Aleksandar Kurtakov]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Michal Srb" <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  To: java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:57:55 AM
>  Subject: [fedora-java] Remove "EE APIs" section from guidelines?
>  
>  Hi folks,
>  
>  I would like to propose a small change to our Java packaging guidelines.
>  The change is simple: remove whole "Packaging and using EE APIs" section
>  [1]. As far as I can tell, there is currently no Java package fully
>  conforming with this section in Fedora. I also think that from
>  maintenance perspective, it's better not to have our hands tied with
>  guidelines (in such less important matters), but to be able act
>  accordingly to current situation in Fedora. The matter of which package
>  should provide which EE API can be discussed here on java-devel ML. We
>  can easily reevaluate our decision before every Fedora release, without
>  need to change the guidelines every time.
>  
>  Please let me know what you think of this proposal. We can arrange
>  java-sig IRC meeting, or we can discuss and vote here. I personally
>  prefer the latter option. 
Huge +1000 from me.
This doesn't belong to the guidelines to say what the defaults will be. Defaults
should be the packages that there is/are active maintainer(s). It doesn't make sense
to update the guidelines for such changes.


Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team

>  
>  Thanks,
>  Michal
>  
>  [1]:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMsrb%2FJavaPackagingDr...
>  --
>  java-devel mailing list
>  java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel

[Aleksandar Kurtakov]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Mikolaj Izdebski" <mizdebsk(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  To: java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 10:00:35 AM
>  Subject: Re: [fedora-java] Remove "EE APIs" section from guidelines?
>  
>  On 03/10/2015 08:57 AM, Michal Srb wrote:
>  > Hi folks,
>  > 
>  > I would like to propose a small change to our Java packaging guidelines.
>  > The change is simple: remove whole "Packaging and using EE APIs" section
>  > [1]. As far as I can tell, there is currently no Java package fully
>  > conforming with this section in Fedora. I also think that from
>  > maintenance perspective, it's better not to have our hands tied with
>  > guidelines (in such less important matters), but to be able act
>  > accordingly to current situation in Fedora. The matter of which package
>  > should provide which EE API can be discussed here on java-devel ML. We
>  > can easily reevaluate our decision before every Fedora release, without
>  > need to change the guidelines every time.
>  > 
>  > Please let me know what you think of this proposal. We can arrange
>  > java-sig IRC meeting, or we can discuss and vote here. I personally
>  > prefer the latter option.
>  
>  +1 from me. I never really understood why this section was added in the
>  first place. 
There are few things I remember and they no longer seem to be the case:
* The virtual provides javax.* is what was intended to be standardized as back then the
mvn() style provides and mvn builds in general were not that widely used throughout the
distro. With all the advancements we have in this area in the last couple of years the
vitrual provides are kind of irrelevant now.
* There were multiple competing providers for each of them and there were few discussion
which one to be. With the less activity we have on the EE front in Fedora or maybe things
just settled a bit, this part of the guidelines is a graveyard for things from the past.


Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team

>  
>  --
>  Mikolaj Izdebski
>  Software Engineer, Red Hat
>  IRC: mizdebsk
>  --
>  java-devel mailing list
>  java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel

[Michael Šimáček]

On 2015-03-10 08:57, Michal Srb wrote:
>  Hi folks,
>
>  I would like to propose a small change to our Java packaging guidelines.
>  The change is simple: remove whole "Packaging and using EE APIs" section
>  [1]. As far as I can tell, there is currently no Java package fully
>  conforming with this section in Fedora. I also think that from
>  maintenance perspective, it's better not to have our hands tied with
>  guidelines (in such less important matters), but to be able act
>  accordingly to current situation in Fedora. The matter of which package
>  should provide which EE API can be discussed here on java-devel ML. We
>  can easily reevaluate our decision before every Fedora release, without
>  need to change the guidelines every time.
>
>  Please let me know what you think of this proposal. We can arrange
>  java-sig IRC meeting, or we can discuss and vote here. I personally
>  prefer the latter option. 
+1
I've seen multiple cases when there was a newer version of the API than 
the provider set by guidelines and packages had to contain ugly 
workarounds to get the newer one. This change will definitely make 
things more flexible.

Michael Simacek

>  Thanks,
>  Michal
>
>  [1]:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMsrb%2FJavaPackagingDr...
>
>  --
>  java-devel mailing list
>  java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel

[Mat Booth]

On 10 March 2015 at 07:57, Michal Srb <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hi folks,
>
>  I would like to propose a small change to our Java packaging guidelines.
>  The change is simple: remove whole "Packaging and using EE APIs" section
>  [1]. As far as I can tell, there is currently no Java package fully
>  conforming with this section in Fedora. I also think that from maintenance
>  perspective, it's better not to have our hands tied with guidelines (in
>  such less important matters), but to be able act accordingly to current
>  situation in Fedora. The matter of which package should provide which EE
>  API can be discussed here on java-devel ML. We can easily reevaluate our
>  decision before every Fedora release, without need to change the guidelines
>  every time.
>
>  Please let me know what you think of this proposal. We can arrange
>  java-sig IRC meeting, or we can discuss and vote here. I personally prefer
>  the latter option.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Michal
>
>  [1]: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMsrb%
>  2FJavaPackagingDraft&diff=406064&oldid=406063
>  --
>  java-devel mailing list
>  java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel 


Also +1 from me. Assuming only the FPC may alter guidelines in the wiki,
please raise a FPC ticket proposing the change and it should get done at
the meeting on Thursday.

-- 
Mat Booth
http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora