Given that session management is still largely a work-in-progress and is (imo) far from something that "just works" (1). I'd like the kde-sig to consider disabling session management by default in f24.
The details being that we'd likely effectively set systemsettings5-> startup&shutdown -> session management -> "start with empty session" (or possibly "restore manually saved session") rather than default "Restore previous session"
I suggest this because I feel that default-enabled features should give users the expectation that they actually work.
-- Rex
(1) there are a fair number of outstanding issues, and many unsolved bugs (though many of them may be dups). I can dig up details and references if needed. That said, I'd rather not discuss the details of what is broken in this thread, but hopefully establish the fact that session management is far from working as expected.
Rex Dieter wrote:
Given that session management is still largely a work-in-progress and is (imo) far from something that "just works" (1). I'd like the kde-sig to consider disabling session management by default in f24.
The details being that we'd likely effectively set systemsettings5-> startup&shutdown -> session management -> "start with empty session" (or possibly "restore manually saved session") rather than default "Restore previous session"
I suggest this because I feel that default-enabled features should give users the expectation that they actually work.
To put this another way, does anyone feel that session management works well enough for a majority of our users (despite all the current issues)?
-- Rex
On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:03 AM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
To put this another way, does anyone feel that session management works well enough for a majority of our users (despite all the current issues)?
For clarity, are you talking about hard coding it so people cannot change it if they choose? If that is the case I would tend to shy away from that solution. It hasn't been an issue for me, and for those who it is, they are already aware of it.
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:03 AM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
To put this another way, does anyone feel that session management works well enough for a majority of our users (despite all the current issues)?
For clarity, are you talking about hard coding it so people cannot change it if they choose?
No, I'm only suggesting changing the default behavior from: "Restore previous session" to "start with empty session"
in the session management preferences, users will still be free to change that if they so wish (as always)
-- Rex
On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
No, I'm only suggesting changing the default behavior from: "Restore previous session" to "start with empty session"
in the session management preferences, users will still be free to change that if they so wish (as always)
Got it... that being the case since some people are having issues, changing the default to 'start with empty session" probably would be a good idea until things settle down.
On 03/24/2016 08:32 AM, Rex Dieter wrote:
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:03 AM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
To put this another way, does anyone feel that session management works well enough for a majority of our users (despite all the current issues)?
For clarity, are you talking about hard coding it so people cannot change it if they choose?
No, I'm only suggesting changing the default behavior from: "Restore previous session" to "start with empty session"
I use "restore saved session" and it works well (after it was fixed). As long as I don't lose that capability, I abstain.
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 8:03:45 AM WET Rex Dieter wrote:
To put this another way, does anyone feel that session management works well enough for a majority of our users (despite all the current issues)?
I have selected "restore the previous session" and it is always funny to guess what part of it will appear (or not).
At the moment that is the only issue that does not work with plasma 5 that worked in plasma 4.
Regards,
On Thu, 2016-03-24 at 08:03 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
Rex Dieter wrote:
Given that session management is still largely a work-in-progress and is (imo) far from something that "just works" (1). I'd like the kde- sig to consider disabling session management by default in f24.
The details being that we'd likely effectively set systemsettings5-> startup&shutdown -> session management -> "start with empty session" (or possibly "restore manually saved session") rather than default "Restore previous session"
I suggest this because I feel that default-enabled features should give users the expectation that they actually work.
To put this another way, does anyone feel that session management works well enough for a majority of our users (despite all the current issues)?
No. It's funny you should ask, because I was just about to post on this topic when your mail appeared, so I'll just paste it in here:
This was discussed at one time (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/piperma il/kde/2015-April/014478.html) but never got anywhere.
In brief: I use Session Restore under KDE. I have a number of desktops and most windows are restored correctly on the correct desktops. The ones that appear to have problems are non-KDE apps. Specifically:
* Firefox starts on the correct desktop but with the "This is embarassing" error page. On clicking the button, the extra window starts up correctly with all its tabs, but on the current desktop rather the assigned one.
* Chrome doesn't start at all. When started manually, it fires up all the correct windows and tabs but on the current desktop instead of the assigned ones.
I have manually configured the desktop settings for these apps, but of course that assumes the app lives on only one desktop.
I am now on kf5-plasma-5.19.0-2.fc23.x86_64, using SDDM and Kwin. I'm open to suggestions but have basically given up on hearing from the developers (see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343875).
poc
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
In brief: I use Session Restore under KDE. I have a number of desktops and most windows are restored correctly on the correct desktops. The ones that appear to have problems are non-KDE apps. Specifical
As I mentioned in the initial post, I'd rather this thread *not* delve into bug specifics(1), but focus on whether the current implementation is "good enough"(tm) to have enabled by default or not.
-- Rex
(1) "... That said, I'd rather not discuss the details of what is broken in this thread, but hopefully establish the fact that session management is far from working as expected."
On Thu, 2016-03-24 at 08:34 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
In brief: I use Session Restore under KDE. I have a number of desktops and most windows are restored correctly on the correct desktops. The ones that appear to have problems are non-KDE apps. Specifical
As I mentioned in the initial post, I'd rather this thread *not* delve into bug specifics(1), but focus on whether the current implementation is "good enough"(tm) to have enabled by default or not.
-- Rex
(1) "... That said, I'd rather not discuss the details of what is broken in this thread, but hopefully establish the fact that session management is far from working as expected."
Fair enough. I missed that part. I'll start a separate thread.
poc
On 03/24/16 20:57, Rex Dieter wrote:
Given that session management is still largely a work-in-progress and is (imo) far from something that "just works" (1). I'd like the kde-sig to consider disabling session management by default in f24.
The details being that we'd likely effectively set systemsettings5-> startup&shutdown -> session management -> "start with empty session" (or possibly "restore manually saved session") rather than default "Restore previous session"
I suggest this because I feel that default-enabled features should give users the expectation that they actually work.
Since I don't logout/login very often and since every time I do kwin will crash once (and only once) when the first GUI application is started I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
On Friday 25 Mar 2016 12:27:13 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
FWIW I never use restore session. Restoring session is only good in concept but it fails in real world situations. 3rd parties are not going to support Plasma's restore session in foreseeable future so it has never been a good idea to set it as default.
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 11:09 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Friday 25 Mar 2016 12:27:13 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
FWIW I never use restore session. Restoring session is only good in concept but it fails in real world situations. 3rd parties are not going to support Plasma's restore session in foreseeable future so it has never been a good idea to set it as default.
If that's the case I have to wonder why it even exists. The idea that users will stick only to Plasma apps is delusional. I use Evolution, Firefox and Chrome and am absolutely not going to switch to Konqueror and Kmail. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I was under the impression that session management was a more standardized thing and should work across DEs. If that's not the case then I'll have to rethink how I use my system.
poc
On 03/25/2016 05:13 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 11:09 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Friday 25 Mar 2016 12:27:13 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
FWIW I never use restore session. Restoring session is only good in concept but it fails in real world situations. 3rd parties are not going to support Plasma's restore session in foreseeable future so it has never been a good idea to set it as default.
If that's the case I have to wonder why it even exists. The idea that users will stick only to Plasma apps is delusional. I use Evolution, Firefox and Chrome and am absolutely not going to switch to Konqueror and Kmail. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I use "restore saved session" with konsole, gkrellm, dolphin, Thunderbird, and Firefox coming up on login (across eight desktops). As the saying goes, "works on my machine".
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 08:18 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
On 03/25/2016 05:13 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 11:09 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Friday 25 Mar 2016 12:27:13 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
FWIW I never use restore session. Restoring session is only good in concept but it fails in real world situations. 3rd parties are not going to support Plasma's restore session in foreseeable future so it has never been a good idea to set it as default.
If that's the case I have to wonder why it even exists. The idea that users will stick only to Plasma apps is delusional. I use Evolution, Firefox and Chrome and am absolutely not going to switch to Konqueror and Kmail. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I use "restore saved session" with konsole, gkrellm, dolphin, Thunderbird, and Firefox coming up on login (across eight desktops). As the saying goes, "works on my machine".
Do any of these have multiple windows across more than one desktop? (e.g. multiple Firefox windows).
Have you tried Google Chrome?
poc
On 25/03/16 01:51 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 08:18 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
On 03/25/2016 05:13 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 11:09 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Friday 25 Mar 2016 12:27:13 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
FWIW I never use restore session. Restoring session is only good in concept but it fails in real world situations. 3rd parties are not going to support Plasma's restore session in foreseeable future so it has never been a good idea to set it as default.
If that's the case I have to wonder why it even exists. The idea that users will stick only to Plasma apps is delusional. I use Evolution, Firefox and Chrome and am absolutely not going to switch to Konqueror and Kmail. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I use "restore saved session" with konsole, gkrellm, dolphin, Thunderbird, and Firefox coming up on login (across eight desktops). As the saying goes, "works on my machine".
Do any of these have multiple windows across more than one desktop? (e.g. multiple Firefox windows).
I do but KDE restore session in F23 is so broken that it's a random event: what gets restored where, if at all, and what crashes on login. Especially Konsole is either a bad offender or badly managed by KDE.
It's just sad :(
Regards, Dariusz
On 03/25/2016 02:04 PM, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 08:18 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
I use "restore saved session" with konsole, gkrellm, dolphin, Thunderbird, and Firefox coming up on login (across eight desktops). As the saying goes, "works on my machine".
Do any of these have multiple windows across more than one desktop? (e.g. multiple Firefox windows).
I do but KDE restore session in F23 is so broken that it's a random event: what gets restored where, if at all, and what crashes on login. Especially Konsole is either a bad offender or badly managed by KDE.
I don't have any problems with konsole using "restore saved session". I'm surprised to hear you guys saying that it doesn't work, are you using save current or restore saved?
On 03/25/2016 08:51 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 08:18 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
On 03/25/2016 05:13 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 11:09 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Friday 25 Mar 2016 12:27:13 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
I have switched to "Start with Empty Session". So, I would say you have a good idea.
FWIW I never use restore session. Restoring session is only good in concept but it fails in real world situations. 3rd parties are not going to support Plasma's restore session in foreseeable future so it has never been a good idea to set it as default.
If that's the case I have to wonder why it even exists. The idea that users will stick only to Plasma apps is delusional. I use Evolution, Firefox and Chrome and am absolutely not going to switch to Konqueror and Kmail. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I use "restore saved session" with konsole, gkrellm, dolphin, Thunderbird, and Firefox coming up on login (across eight desktops). As the saying goes, "works on my machine".
Do any of these have multiple windows across more than one desktop? (e.g. multiple Firefox windows).
No (not restoring them that way, anyway).
Have you tried Google Chrome?
Not restoring its session, no.
Rex Dieter wrote:
Given that session management is still largely a work-in-progress and is (imo) far from something that "just works" (1). I'd like the kde-sig to consider disabling session management by default in f24.
This topic was discussed in today's kde-sig meeting, and a consensus was reached to move forward with disabling session management by default in fedora 24.
Tasks to do: * implement this in kde-settings. DONE: should be included in new kde- settings-24-4.fc24 builds soon to be submitted as updates) * document this in f24 release notes * document current open bugs/issues, so that we can reconsider once these are addressed/fixed satisfactorily.
I'll probably slowly work on the latter 2 items over time, but any help would be appreciated.
-- Rex
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Dariusz J. Garbowski -
Ed Greshko -
Gerald B. Cox -
Glenn Holmer -
José Abílio Matos -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rex Dieter -
Sudhir Khanger