Plasma-X11 support in F42

[Frédéric]

Hi,

I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
- VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
- The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them unsuable.

Thanks,

F

[Felix Miata]

Frédéric composed on 2025-06-08 07:05 (UTC+0200):
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them unsuable.

I quit Plasma on Fedora before the switch to v6, to wait at least 4 point releases
before trying again and stay out of the not even close to ready for mere mortal
users to use problem v4.0 and v5.0 brought. I'm sure Plasma X11 sessions must
still work, because IceWM and TDE still work on 42.

# inxi -GSaz --vs --za --hostname
inxi 3.3.38-00 (2025-04-06)
System:
  Host: g5eas Kernel: 6.12.28-200.fc42.x86_64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64
    compiler: gcc v: 15.1.1 clocksource: tsc avail: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: ro
    root=LABEL=<filter> noresume selinux=0 audit=0 ipv6.disable=1
    net.ifnames=0 plymouth.enable=0 consoleblank=0 mitigations=off
  Desktop: TDE (Trinity) v: R14.1.4 tk: Qt v: 3.5.0 wm: Twin v: 3.0
    with: kicker vt: 7 dm: 1: TDM 2: XDM Distro: Fedora Linux 42 (Adams)
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA G98 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 2] vendor: PNY driver: nouveau
    v: kernel non-free: series: 340.xx status: legacy (EOL~2019-12-xx) last:
    release: 340.108 kernel: 5.4 xorg: 1.20 arch: Tesla process: 40-80nm
    built: 2006-2013 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 link-max: lanes: 16
    ports: active: DVI-I-1,VGA-1 empty: none bus-ID: 0b:00.0
    chip-ID: 10de:06e4 class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.16 compositor: Twin v: 3.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting alternate: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau
    display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3600x1200 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 762x254mm (30.00x10.00")
    s-diag: 803mm (31.62")
  Monitor-1: DVI-I-1 pos: primary,left model: NEC EA243WM serial: <filter>
    built: 2011 res: mode: 1920x1200 hz: 60 scale: 100% (1) dpi: 94 gamma: 1.2
    size: 519x324mm (20.43x12.76") diag: 612mm (24.1") ratio: 16:10 modes:
    max: 1920x1200 min: 640x480
  Monitor-2: VGA-1 pos: right model: Dell P2213 serial: <filter> built: 2013
    res: mode: 1680x1050 hz: 60 scale: 100% (1) dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2
    size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65") diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes:
    max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: nvidia nouveau platforms: device: 0 drv: nouveau
    device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: drv: nouveau surfaceless: drv: nouveau x11:
    drv: nouveau inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 compat-v: 3.3 vendor: mesa v: 25.0.4 glx-v: 1.4
    direct-render: yes renderer: NV98 device-ID: 10de:06e4 memory: 483.4 MiB
    unified: no
  API: Vulkan v: 1.4.309 layers: 2 device: 0 type: cpu name: llvmpipe (LLVM
    20.1.2 128 bits) driver: mesa llvmpipe v: 25.0.4 (LLVM 20.1.2)
    device-ID: 10005:0000 surfaces: xcb,xlib
  Info: Tools: api: clinfo, eglinfo, glxinfo, vulkaninfo
    x11: xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr
#

[Marc Deop i Argemí]

On Sunday, 8 June 2025 07:25:20 Central European Summer Time Felix Miata via 
kde wrote:
> Frédéric composed on 2025-06-08 07:05 (UTC+0200):
> > I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> > some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> > X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> > VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> > The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them
> >
> > unsuable.
>
> I quit Plasma on Fedora before the switch to v6, to wait at least 4 point
> releases before trying again and stay out of the not even close to ready
> for mere mortal users to use problem v4.0 and v5.0 brought. I'm sure Plasma
> X11 sessions must still work, because IceWM and TDE still work on 42.

Your message is not contributing in any meaningful way to the topic at hand.

Please, do not abuse the opportunity to start (as it looks to me) a rant.

Thanks

[Felix Miata]

Also, I have Plasma 6.3.5 working on openSUSE Tumbleweed with multiple displays
working much better than Wayland, which misremembers virtual desktops and displays
content both, and starts everything on screen 1 and virtual desktop 1, plus
duplicates instances of one certain gtk app, which when the duplicates are not
closed before exiting a session, adds another one for /each/ left open.

Frédéric composed on 2025-06-08 07:05 (UTC+0200):
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them unsuable.

I quit Plasma on Fedora before the switch to v6, to wait at least 4 point releases
before trying again and stay out of the not even close to ready for mere mortal
users to use problem v4.0 and v5.0 brought. I'm sure Plasma X11 sessions must
still work, because IceWM and TDE still work on 42.

# inxi -GSaz --vs --za --hostname
inxi 3.3.38-00 (2025-04-06)
System:
  Host: g5eas Kernel: 6.12.28-200.fc42.x86_64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64
    compiler: gcc v: 15.1.1 clocksource: tsc avail: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: ro
    root=LABEL=<filter> noresume selinux=0 audit=0 ipv6.disable=1
    net.ifnames=0 plymouth.enable=0 consoleblank=0 mitigations=off
  Desktop: TDE (Trinity) v: R14.1.4 tk: Qt v: 3.5.0 wm: Twin v: 3.0
    with: kicker vt: 7 dm: 1: TDM 2: XDM Distro: Fedora Linux 42 (Adams)
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA G98 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 2] vendor: PNY driver: nouveau
    v: kernel non-free: series: 340.xx status: legacy (EOL~2019-12-xx) last:
    release: 340.108 kernel: 5.4 xorg: 1.20 arch: Tesla process: 40-80nm
    built: 2006-2013 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 link-max: lanes: 16
    ports: active: DVI-I-1,VGA-1 empty: none bus-ID: 0b:00.0
    chip-ID: 10de:06e4 class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.16 compositor: Twin v: 3.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting alternate: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau
    display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3600x1200 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 762x254mm (30.00x10.00")
    s-diag: 803mm (31.62")
  Monitor-1: DVI-I-1 pos: primary,left model: NEC EA243WM serial: <filter>
    built: 2011 res: mode: 1920x1200 hz: 60 scale: 100% (1) dpi: 94 gamma: 1.2
    size: 519x324mm (20.43x12.76") diag: 612mm (24.1") ratio: 16:10 modes:
    max: 1920x1200 min: 640x480
  Monitor-2: VGA-1 pos: right model: Dell P2213 serial: <filter> built: 2013
    res: mode: 1680x1050 hz: 60 scale: 100% (1) dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2
    size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65") diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes:
    max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: nvidia nouveau platforms: device: 0 drv: nouveau
    device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: drv: nouveau surfaceless: drv: nouveau x11:
    drv: nouveau inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 compat-v: 3.3 vendor: mesa v: 25.0.4 glx-v: 1.4
    direct-render: yes renderer: NV98 device-ID: 10de:06e4 memory: 483.4 MiB
    unified: no
  API: Vulkan v: 1.4.309 layers: 2 device: 0 type: cpu name: llvmpipe (LLVM
    20.1.2 128 bits) driver: mesa llvmpipe v: 25.0.4 (LLVM 20.1.2)
    device-ID: 10005:0000 surfaces: xcb,xlib
  Info: Tools: api: clinfo, eglinfo, glxinfo, vulkaninfo
    x11: xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr
#

[Liu Sen]

在 2025年6月8日星期日 中国标准时间 13:05:17，Frédéric via kde 写道：
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them
>
> unsuable.

Plasma-x11 is still available in F42.

# dnf info plasma-workspace-x11
Updating and loading repositories:
Repositories loaded.
Available packages
Name           : plasma-workspace-x11
Epoch          : 0
Version        : 6.3.5
Release        : 1.fc42
Architecture   : x86_64
Download size  : 95.9 KiB
Installed size : 217.8 KiB
Source         : plasma-workspace-x11-6.3.5-1.fc42.src.rpm
Repository     : updates
Summary        : Xorg support for Plasma
URL            : https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace
License        : BSD-2-Clause AND BSD-3-Clause AND CC0-1.0 AND GPL-2.0-only 
AND GPL-2.0-or-later AND GPL-3.0-only AND LGPL-2.0-only AND LGPL-2.0-or-later 
AND LGPL-2.1-only AND LGPL-2.1-or-later AND LGP
               : L-3.0-only AND LGPL-3.0-or-later AND (GPL-2.0-only OR 
GPL-3.0-only) AND (LGPL-2.1-only OR LGPL-3.0-only) AND MIT
Description    : Support for the legacy X11 window system in KDE Plasma, as 
opposed to the
               : default Wayland. This package provides the legacy "Plasma 
(X11)" session type
               : and the startplasma-x11 executable required by that session 
type. (Other
               : requirements such as kwin-x11 are found in the package 
dependencies.) The
               : session type can be switched between "Plasma (X11)" and the 
default "Plasma
               : (Wayland)" in the display manager (e.g., SDDM).
               : 
               : This version is maintained by individual Fedora packagers and 
NOT supported by
               : the Fedora KDE SIG. (See plasma-workspace-wayland for the 
default version, using
               : Wayland, maintained by the KDE SIG.)
Vendor         : Fedora Project

[Stephen Morris]

*From:* Frédéric via kde

*Sent:* Sunday, 8 June 2025 at 15:05 UTC+10

*To:* KDE on Fedora discussion

*Cc:* Frédéric

*Subject:* Plasma-X11 support in F42
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them unsuable.

I am using X11 on Plasma in F42 as I have never liked Wayland right from 
it's introduction into Fedora where it didn't work properly with KDE, 
and there are still processes that don't work properly now.

regards,
Steve
> Thanks,
>
> F

[Frédéric]

> I'm sure Plasma X11 sessions must still work, because IceWM and TDE still work on 42.
> Plasma-x11 is still available in F42.
> I am using X11 on Plasma in F42 as I have never liked Wayland right from it's introduction into Fedora where it didn't work properly with KDE, and there are still processes that don't work properly now.

Thank you all, it seems it is safe to upgrade to F42.

F

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2025-06-08 at 07:05 +0200, Frédéric via kde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them unsuable.

plasma-x11 is still available on F42.

I bit the bullet and jumped 100% to Plasma. Still a few things I don't
like but it's getting better and is clearly the way to go in future.

poc

[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 7:05 AM Frédéric via kde
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42. I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session.

Plasma X11 is not supported by the Fedora KDE SIG, we only support
Plasma Wayland.
> My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them unsuable.

Admittedly I do not use VirtualBox, but judging by the upstream
issue[1] and related forum post[2], it seems to be that VirtualBox is
working on improving a number of issues with their port of the user
interface to Qt 6.

As for the GIMP, things should be improving at a rapid clip now that
bug fixes are landing after the release of GIMP 3.0. Please file
issues upstream[3] so they can address them.

[1]: https://github.com/VirtualBox/virtualbox/issues/4
[2]: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=110046
[3]: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues

[Frédéric]

> Admittedly I do not use VirtualBox, but judging by the upstream
> issue[1] and related forum post[2], it seems to be that VirtualBox is
> working on improving a number of issues with their port of the user
> interface to Qt 6.

Thank you for the pointers. I added my experience to the GitHub issue
https://github.com/VirtualBox/virtualbox/issues/4
> As for the GIMP, things should be improving at a rapid clip now that
> bug fixes are landing after the release of GIMP 3.0. Please file
> issues upstream[3] so they can address them.

Again, thanks for the pointer. I submitted a bug:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/14215

Thanks,

F

[Marc Deop i Argemí]

On Sunday, 8 June 2025 07:05:17 Central European Summer Time Frédéric via kde 
wrote:
> I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42.

We, the Fedora KDE SIG, do not support X11 sessions.

Some users are maintaining support though:
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/plasma-workspace-x11
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin-x11

If  you have issues with X11 sessions, please report them to the maintainers.
> I still have
> some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them
>
> unsuable.

Thanks for reporting the problems, hopefully they can be addressed soon.

[Giuliano Colla]

Il 08/06/25 14:01, Marc Deop i Argemí via kde ha scritto:
> We, the Fedora KDE SIG, do not support X11 sessions.
>
> Some users are maintaining support though:
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/plasma-workspace-x11
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin-x11
>
> If  you have issues with X11 sessions, please report them to the maintainers.

You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is production ready. 
Currently users have issues with Wayland sessions, not with X11 sessions!
Giuliano Colla

[Steve Cossette]

Thank you for your opinion!

On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 8:32 PM Giuliano Colla via kde <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> Il 08/06/25 14:01, Marc Deop i Argemí via kde ha scritto:
> > We, the Fedora KDE SIG, do not support X11 sessions.
> >
> > Some users are maintaining support though:
> > https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/plasma-workspace-x11
> > https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin-x11
> >
> > If  you have issues with X11 sessions, please report them to the
>
> maintainers.
>
> You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is production ready.
> Currently users have issues with Wayland sessions, not with X11 sessions!
> Giuliano Colla
>
> --
> Do not do to others as you would have them do to you.They might have
> different tastes.
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> kde mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
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> Do not reply to spam, report it:
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[Marc Deop i Argemí]

On Monday, 9 June 2025 02:32:06 Central European Summer Time Giuliano Colla 
via kde wrote:
> You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is production ready.
> Currently users have issues with Wayland sessions, not with X11 sessions!
> Giuliano Colla

Please, stop.

This is not contributing in any way to the topic at hand.

Thank you.

[Giuliano Colla]

I was convinced that the main goal of this group was to permit users to 
give a feedback to developers, in order to make KDE on Fedora more 
respondent to user needs.

As the topic at hand is the Plasma-X11 support, I felt that opinions on 
that subject would be not only appropriate, but also useful.

If the only goal is just to praise developers choices be them right or 
wrong, please let me know, so that I may unsubscribe from an useless 
discussion group.

Giuliano Colla

Il 09/06/25 09:58, Marc Deop i Argemí ha scritto:
> Please, stop.
>
> This is not contributing in any way to the topic at hand.
>
> Thank you.

[Luigi Toscano]

Giuliano Colla via kde ha scritto:
> I was convinced that the main goal of this group was to permit users to give a
> feedback to developers, in order to make KDE on Fedora more respondent to user
> needs.
>
> As the topic at hand is the Plasma-X11 support, I felt that opinions on that
> subject would be not only appropriate, but also useful.
>
> If the only goal is just to praise developers choices be them right or wrong,
> please let me know, so that I may unsubscribe from an useless discussion group.

Just a user here: I don't think this is about praising developers. Your email
was about "You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is *production
ready*." (emphasis mine).

For several users and use cases Wayland is ready, and other users have more
problems with X11 (hello my HiDPI monitor). The previous sentence is an
absolute statement, which is false, and that's what's not useful. A specific
list of issues would have been more (as it almost happened on another
subthread of this discussion).

[Giuliano Colla]

Bugzilla is the right place to report bugs. This should be the right 
place to discuss features.

Il 11/06/25 19:50, Luigi Toscano ha scritto:
> Giuliano Colla via kde ha scritto:
> > I was convinced that the main goal of this group was to permit users to give a
> > feedback to developers, in order to make KDE on Fedora more respondent to user
> > needs.
> >
> > As the topic at hand is the Plasma-X11 support, I felt that opinions on that
> > subject would be not only appropriate, but also useful.
> >
> > If the only goal is just to praise developers choices be them right or wrong,
> > please let me know, so that I may unsubscribe from an useless discussion group.
>
> Just a user here: I don't think this is about praising developers. Your email
> was about "You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is *production
> ready*." (emphasis mine).
>
> For several users and use cases Wayland is ready, and other users have more
> problems with X11 (hello my HiDPI monitor). The previous sentence is an
> absolute statement, which is false, and that's what's not useful. A specific
> list of issues would have been more (as it almost happened on another
> subthread of this discussion).

Bugzilla is the right place to report bugs. This should be the right 
place to discuss features. Supporting both X11 and Wayland was a useful 
feature, which permitted users to select which one was best suited for 
their needs. Unless Wayland is so much superior to X11 that there's no 
discussion on the subject (which IMHO isn't yet), suppressing the choice 
makes Fedora less attractive. You (wrongly) believe that Wayland is 
production ready? Well, use Wayland. But do not force to use Wayland 
other users which, based on their experience, do not share your opinion.

Giuliano Colla

--

Do not do to others as you would have them do to you.They might have different tastes.

[Giuliano Colla]

Sorry for my partial top posting. A mail client hiccup. Full answer at 
bottom, where it should stay!

Il 12/06/25 00:28, Giuliano Colla via kde ha scritto:
> Bugzilla is the right place to report bugs. This should be the right 
> place to discuss features.
>
> Il 11/06/25 19:50, Luigi Toscano ha scritto:
> > Giuliano Colla via kde ha scritto:
> > > I was convinced that the main goal of this group was to permit users 
> > > to give a
> > > feedback to developers, in order to make KDE on Fedora more 
> > > respondent to user
> > > needs.
> > >
> > > As the topic at hand is the Plasma-X11 support, I felt that opinions 
> > > on that
> > > subject would be not only appropriate, but also useful.
> > >
> > > If the only goal is just to praise developers choices be them right 
> > > or wrong,
> > > please let me know, so that I may unsubscribe from an useless 
> > > discussion group.
> >
> > Just a user here: I don't think this is about praising developers. 
> > Your email
> > was about "You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is 
> > *production
> > ready*." (emphasis mine).
> >
> > For several users and use cases Wayland is ready, and other users 
> > have more
> > problems with X11 (hello my HiDPI monitor). The previous sentence is an
> > absolute statement, which is false, and that's what's not useful. A 
> > specific
> > list of issues would have been more (as it almost happened on another
> > subthread of this discussion).
>
> Bugzilla is the right place to report bugs. This should be the right 
> place to discuss features. Supporting both X11 and Wayland was a 
> useful feature, which permitted users to select which one was best 
> suited for their needs. Unless Wayland is so much superior to X11 that 
> there's no discussion on the subject (which IMHO isn't yet), 
> suppressing the choice makes Fedora less attractive. You (wrongly) 
> believe that Wayland is production ready? Well, use Wayland. But do 
> not force to use Wayland other users which, based on their experience, 
> do not share your opinion.
>
> Giuliano Colla
>
> --
>
> Do not do to others as you would have them do to you.They might have 
> different tastes.

[Derek Enz]

I’m sorry you feel that way. For others it seems production ready.

Please understand there’s  always growing pains when new technology is
introduced. Unfortunately it’s very difficult to please everybody right
from the start. It is what it is. Things are very complex these days.

Anyway reporting bugs would really be helpful.

Thank you!

On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 3:29 PM Giuliano Colla via kde <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> Bugzilla is the right place to report bugs. This should be the right
> place to discuss features.
>
> Il 11/06/25 19:50, Luigi Toscano ha scritto:
> > Giuliano Colla via kde ha scritto:
> > > I was convinced that the main goal of this group was to permit users to
>
> give a
> > > feedback to developers, in order to make KDE on Fedora more respondent
>
> to user
> > > needs.
> > >
> > > As the topic at hand is the Plasma-X11 support, I felt that opinions on
>
> that
> > > subject would be not only appropriate, but also useful.
> > >
> > > If the only goal is just to praise developers choices be them right or
>
> wrong,
> > > please let me know, so that I may unsubscribe from an useless
>
> discussion group.
> > >
> >
> > Just a user here: I don't think this is about praising developers. Your
>
> email
> > was about "You'd better support X11 sessions until Wayland is *production
> > ready*." (emphasis mine).
> >
> > For several users and use cases Wayland is ready, and other users have
>
> more
> > problems with X11 (hello my HiDPI monitor). The previous sentence is an
> > absolute statement, which is false, and that's what's not useful. A
>
> specific
> > list of issues would have been more (as it almost happened on another
> > subthread of this discussion).
>
> Bugzilla is the right place to report bugs. This should be the right
> place to discuss features. Supporting both X11 and Wayland was a useful
> feature, which permitted users to select which one was best suited for
> their needs. Unless Wayland is so much superior to X11 that there's no
> discussion on the subject (which IMHO isn't yet), suppressing the choice
> makes Fedora less attractive. You (wrongly) believe that Wayland is
> production ready? Well, use Wayland. But do not force to use Wayland
> other users which, based on their experience, do not share your opinion.
>
> Giuliano Colla
>
> --
>
> Do not do to others as you would have them do to you.They might have
> different tastes.
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> kde mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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[Marc Deop i Argemí]

On Wednesday, 11 June 2025 19:33:33 Central European Summer Time Giuliano 
Colla via kde wrote:
> I was convinced that the main goal of this group was to permit users to
> give a feedback to developers, in order to make KDE on Fedora more
> respondent to user needs.

Partly true but not exactly accurate.
> As the topic at hand is the Plasma-X11 support, I felt that opinions on
> that subject would be not only appropriate, but also useful.

Except that is not what you did. You made absolute statements and even wrote 
things that can be seen as a threat. I quote: "You'd better support X11 
sessions until Wayland is production ready. " Or else what? (ignoring the fact 
that "production ready" is very subjective)

As per your absolute statements:

"Currently users have issues with Wayland sessions, not with X11 sessions!"

That is just not true. There are issues with both sessions and the X11 ones 
are way harder to solve because the Xorg implementation of the protocol is 
essentially in maintenance mode only and has been for several years.

Not to mention that some of the issues are just _not possible_ to solve on X11 
( like fundamental security and no tearing).

If you really want to have a constructive discussion, start a thread talking 
about the pain points you have with the wayland session and we will see what 
we can do about it. You'd be surprise on how many occasions people believe 
something is not possible on Wayland but it really is these days ( I lost 
count of how many times people have mentioned X forwarding just to tell them 
about waypipe).

I encourage you to have constructive criticism and give feedback in a healthy 
way. We can all benefit from that :-)

Best regards,

[Giuliano Colla]

Il 15/06/25 20:14, Marc Deop i Argemí ha scritto:
> You made absolute statements and even wrote
> things that can be seen as a threat. I quote: "You'd better support X11
> sessions until Wayland is production ready. " Or else what?

Not the minimal threat! Or else users will miss a feature!

Giuliano

[Stephen Morris]

*From:* Marc Deop i Argemí via kde

*Sent:* Sunday, 8 June 2025 at 22:01 UTC+10

*To:* KDE on Fedora discussion

*Cc:* Frédéric , Frédéric via kde 
, Marc Deop i Argemí 

*Subject:* RE: Plasma-X11 support in F42
> On Sunday, 8 June 2025 07:05:17 Central European Summer Time Frédéric via kde
> wrote:
> > I'd like to know if plasma-x11 is still available in F42.
>
> We, the Fedora KDE SIG, do not support X11 sessions.

Why is this? Wayland has never worked 100% with KDE right from its first 
introduction with Fedora where KDE users were quite validly recommending 
to not use Wayland as it didn't work properly with KDE (Gnome was a 
different story), and there are still things in Wayland that don't work 
properly with KDE, that annoy me, which is why I've gone back to X11

regards,
Steve
> Some users are maintaining support though:
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/plasma-workspace-x11
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin-x11
>
> If  you have issues with X11 sessions, please report them to the maintainers.
> > I still have
> > some issues with wayland so I would like to have the option to open a
> > X11 session. My issues with Wayland are:
> > VirtualBox does not have access to the mouse in a Windows 10 guest
> > The Gimp has some widgets going outside of the screen making them
> >
> > unsuable.
>
> Thanks for reporting the problems, hopefully they can be addressed soon.

[Marc Deop i Argemí]

On Monday, 9 June 2025 23:44:47 Central European Summer Time Stephen Morris 
via kde wrote:
> Why is this?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6
> Wayland has never worked 100% with KDE right from its first
> introduction with Fedora 
> where KDE users were quite validly recommending
> to not use Wayland as it didn't work properly with KDE (Gnome was a
> different story), and there are still things in Wayland that don't work
> properly with KDE, that annoy me, which is why I've gone back to X11

Please, do not start this discussion again.

Thanks

[Stephen Morris]

*From:* Marc Deop i Argemí via kde

*Sent:* Tuesday, 10 June 2025 at 08:23 UTC+10

*To:* [e-mail]

*Cc:* Stephen Morris , Stephen Morris via kde 
, Marc Deop i Argemí 

*Subject:* RE: Plasma-X11 support in F42
> On Monday, 9 June 2025 23:44:47 Central European Summer Time Stephen Morris
> via kde wrote:
> > Why is this?
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6
> > Wayland has never worked 100% with KDE right from its first
> > introduction with Fedora
> > where KDE users were quite validly recommending
> > to not use Wayland as it didn't work properly with KDE (Gnome was a
> > different story), and there are still things in Wayland that don't work
> > properly with KDE, that annoy me, which is why I've gone back to X11
>
> Please, do not start this discussion again.

Sorry, I'm not trying to rant about Wayland, I was just stating facts on 
why I have stayed on X11 in KDE and for that matter in Gnome.
But on the topic of issues, if I switch back to Wayland and the issues 
that I've experienced with Wayland are still present, how do I get them 
addressed?

regards,
Steve
> Thanks

[Neal Gompa]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 12:36 AM Stephen Morris via kde
 wrote:
> From: Marc Deop i Argemí via kde
>
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2025 at 08:23 UTC+10
>
> To: [e-mail]
>
> Cc: Stephen Morris , Stephen Morris via kde , Marc Deop i Argemí
>
> Subject: RE: Plasma-X11 support in F42
>
> On Monday, 9 June 2025 23:44:47 Central European Summer Time Stephen Morris
> via kde wrote:
>
> Why is this?
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6
>
> Wayland has never worked 100% with KDE right from its first
> introduction with Fedora
> where KDE users were quite validly recommending
> to not use Wayland as it didn't work properly with KDE (Gnome was a
> different story), and there are still things in Wayland that don't work
> properly with KDE, that annoy me, which is why I've gone back to X11
>
> Please, do not start this discussion again.
>
> Sorry, I'm not trying to rant about Wayland, I was just stating facts on why I have stayed on X11 in KDE and for that matter in Gnome.
> But on the topic of issues, if I switch back to Wayland and the issues that I've experienced with Wayland are still present, how do I get them addressed?

Filing bug reports in the KDE Bugzilla[1] helps a lot here.

If you haven't tried recently, there's been a lot of investment in
net-new functionality in KDE Plasma 6.3 and there will be even more
coming in 6.4 (which you can try through our beta COPR[2] or through a
nightly Rawhide image[3]).

[1]: https://bugs.kde.org
[2]: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/kdesig/kde-beta/
[3]: https://nightly.fedoraproject.org

[Stephen Morris]

*From:* Neal Gompa

*Sent:* Wednesday, 11 June 2025 at 08:54 UTC+10

*To:* KDE on Fedora discussion

*Cc:* Stephen Morris

*Subject:* RE: Plasma-X11 support in F42
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 12:36 AM Stephen Morris via kde
>  wrote:
> > From: Marc Deop i Argemí via kde
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2025 at 08:23 UTC+10
> >
> > To:[e-mail]
> >
> > Cc: Stephen Morris, Stephen Morris via kde, Marc Deop i Argemí
> >
> > Subject: RE: Plasma-X11 support in F42
> >
> > On Monday, 9 June 2025 23:44:47 Central European Summer Time Stephen Morris
> > via kde wrote:
> >
> > Why is this?
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6
> >
> > Wayland has never worked 100% with KDE right from its first
> > introduction with Fedora
> > where KDE users were quite validly recommending
> > to not use Wayland as it didn't work properly with KDE (Gnome was a
> > different story), and there are still things in Wayland that don't work
> > properly with KDE, that annoy me, which is why I've gone back to X11
> >
> > Please, do not start this discussion again.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not trying to rant about Wayland, I was just stating facts on why I have stayed on X11 in KDE and for that matter in Gnome.
> > But on the topic of issues, if I switch back to Wayland and the issues that I've experienced with Wayland are still present, how do I get them addressed?
>
> Filing bug reports in the KDE Bugzilla[1] helps a lot here.
>
> If you haven't tried recently, there's been a lot of investment in
> net-new functionality in KDE Plasma 6.3 and there will be even more
> coming in 6.4 (which you can try through our beta COPR[2] or through a
> nightly Rawhide image[3]).
>
> Thanks Neal. I'm on Plasma 6.3.5 and I've just tried Wayland (I'm composing this email from Wayland) and one of the issues I had seems to have been rectified, but the other issue is now worse. I had an issue where I had the mouse pointer movement speed set up the way I wanted under X11, but when I used Wayland it seemed to ignore those settings and did its own thing, the movement speed was too fast. Now it has gone the reverse and the mouse pointer movement is now stuttery and if I open the KDE Throbber the mouse pointer stops moving completely. I'll look at filing a bug report on this.

regards,
Steve