Hi,
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
This is unacceptable.
Not being able to logout is a security issue and possible threat to filesystem integrity if the user has to "hard reset" by pressing the reset/power button.
Questions:
1. Anybody has any ideas how to properly quit KDE? 2. Against what component do I submit a bug?
<rant> KDE in Fedora 23 is a complete crashfest, which should never has been released in current state to the end user. I truly have no idea how this is acceptable. </rant>
# dnf --refresh update . . . Installed: kscreenlocker.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwin-common.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 qca-qt5.x86_64 2.1.1-2.fc23
Upgraded: bluedevil.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 breeze-cursor-theme.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 cpp.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 deja-dup.x86_64 34.1-1.fc23 deja-dup-nautilus.x86_64 34.1-1.fc23 gcc.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 gcc-c++.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 hawkey.x86_64 0.6.2-3.fc23 ibus-libzhuyin.x86_64 1.7.5-2.fc23 kde-cli-tools.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kde-l10n.noarch 15.08.3-1.fc23 kde-style-breeze.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kdecoration.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kdeplasma-addons.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 kdesu.x86_64 1:5.5.0-1.fc23 kf5-kwayland.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 khelpcenter.x86_64 1:5.5.0-1.fc23 khotkeys.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kinfocenter.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kmenuedit.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kscreen.x86_64 1:5.5.0-1.fc23 ksshaskpass.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 ksysguard.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 ksysguardd.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwayland-integration.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwin.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwin-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwrited.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libetonyek.x86_64 0.1.5-1.fc23 libgcc.i686 5.3.1-2.fc23 libgcc.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libgfortran.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libgomp.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libkscreen-qt5.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libksysguard.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libksysguard-common.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libkworkspace5.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 libmwaw.x86_64 0.3.7-1.fc23 libquadmath.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libstdc++.i686 5.3.1-2.fc23 libstdc++.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libstdc++-devel.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libtool.x86_64 2.4.6-7.fc23 libtool-ltdl.i686 2.4.6-7.fc23 libtool-ltdl.x86_64 2.4.6-7.fc23 muon-discover.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 muon-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 oxygen-cursor-themes.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 oxygen-sound-theme.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 pam-kwallet.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-breeze.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-breeze-common.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-desktop.x86_64 5.5.0-4.fc23 plasma-desktop-doc.noarch 5.5.0-4.fc23 plasma-milou.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-l2tp.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-openconnect.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-openswan.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-openvpn.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-pptp.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-vpnc.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-pa.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-systemsettings.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-workspace.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-common.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-drkonqi.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-geolocation.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-geolocation-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 polkit-kde.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 powerdevil.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 python3-hawkey.x86_64 0.6.2-3.fc23 sddm-breeze.noarch 5.5.0-2.fc23 sddm-kcm.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23
Complete!
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:26:19 +0000 "Dariusz J. Garbowski" thuforuk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi,
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
This is unacceptable.
Not being able to logout is a security issue and possible threat to filesystem integrity if the user has to "hard reset" by pressing the reset/power button.
Questions:
- Anybody has any ideas how to properly quit KDE?
- Against what component do I submit a bug?
<rant> KDE in Fedora 23 is a complete crashfest, which should never has been released in current state to the end user. I truly have no idea how this is acceptable. </rant>
# dnf --refresh update . . . Installed: kscreenlocker.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwin-common.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 qca-qt5.x86_64 2.1.1-2.fc23
Upgraded: bluedevil.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 breeze-cursor-theme.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 cpp.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 deja-dup.x86_64 34.1-1.fc23 deja-dup-nautilus.x86_64 34.1-1.fc23 gcc.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 gcc-c++.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 hawkey.x86_64 0.6.2-3.fc23 ibus-libzhuyin.x86_64 1.7.5-2.fc23 kde-cli-tools.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kde-l10n.noarch 15.08.3-1.fc23 kde-style-breeze.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kdecoration.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kdeplasma-addons.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 kdesu.x86_64 1:5.5.0-1.fc23 kf5-kwayland.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 khelpcenter.x86_64 1:5.5.0-1.fc23 khotkeys.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kinfocenter.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kmenuedit.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kscreen.x86_64 1:5.5.0-1.fc23 ksshaskpass.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 ksysguard.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 ksysguardd.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwayland-integration.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwin.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwin-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 kwrited.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libetonyek.x86_64 0.1.5-1.fc23 libgcc.i686 5.3.1-2.fc23 libgcc.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libgfortran.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libgomp.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libkscreen-qt5.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libksysguard.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libksysguard-common.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 libkworkspace5.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 libmwaw.x86_64 0.3.7-1.fc23 libquadmath.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libstdc++.i686 5.3.1-2.fc23 libstdc++.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libstdc++-devel.x86_64 5.3.1-2.fc23 libtool.x86_64 2.4.6-7.fc23 libtool-ltdl.i686 2.4.6-7.fc23 libtool-ltdl.x86_64 2.4.6-7.fc23 muon-discover.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 muon-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 oxygen-cursor-themes.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 oxygen-sound-theme.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 pam-kwallet.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-breeze.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-breeze-common.noarch 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-desktop.x86_64 5.5.0-4.fc23 plasma-desktop-doc.noarch 5.5.0-4.fc23 plasma-milou.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-l2tp.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-openconnect.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-openswan.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-openvpn.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-pptp.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-nm-vpnc.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-pa.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-systemsettings.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 plasma-workspace.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-common.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-drkonqi.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-geolocation.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-geolocation-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 plasma-workspace-libs.x86_64 5.5.0-2.fc23 polkit-kde.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 powerdevil.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23 python3-hawkey.x86_64 0.6.2-3.fc23 sddm-breeze.noarch 5.5.0-2.fc23 sddm-kcm.x86_64 5.5.0-1.fc23
Complete!
I'm not sure if it is filed as a bug report somewhere, but it is "known" issue, after restart everything should be fine again. As a workaround you can try right click on the desktop and use "Leave*" option(s) from there (if I remember correctly that worked for me).
On 12/12/15 10:55 AM, bitlord wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:26:19 +0000 "Dariusz J. Garbowski" thuforuk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi,
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
[...]
Questions:
- Anybody has any ideas how to properly quit KDE?
- Against what component do I submit a bug?
[...]
I'm not sure if it is filed as a bug report somewhere, but it is "known" issue, after restart everything should be fine again. As a workaround you can try right click on the desktop and use "Leave*" option(s) from there (if I remember correctly that worked for me).
Thanks, this worked. I never noticed it there...
Being a "known" issue -- is anything being done about it? Anywhere it's tracked so I can follow up progress? If not, a bug should be filed - where? plasma-workspace?
This issue is simply something that should be high priority -- regular users should have never even seen this.
Regards, Dariusz
On 12/12/15 12:20 PM, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
On 12/12/15 10:55 AM, bitlord wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:26:19 +0000 "Dariusz J. Garbowski" thuforuk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi,
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
[...]
Questions:
- Anybody has any ideas how to properly quit KDE?
- Against what component do I submit a bug?
[...]
I'm not sure if it is filed as a bug report somewhere, but it is "known" issue, after restart everything should be fine again. As a workaround you can try right click on the desktop and use "Leave*" option(s) from there (if I remember correctly that worked for me).
Thanks, this worked. I never noticed it there...
Ironically, when logging out, abrt popped up saying that Konsole crashed. </shaking_head> And after re-login my konsoles are started again but on wrong virtual desktop. </shaking_head_again>
Dariusz
Am 12.12.2015 um 11:26 schrieb Dariusz J. Garbowski:
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
This is unacceptable.
Not being able to logout is a security issue and possible threat to filesystem integrity if the user has to "hard reset" by pressing the reset/power button
while i agree to the other rant when you need the power button just because you can't log out from whatever desktop on a Linux system the problem is in front of the screen
* CTRL+ALT+F2 * Enter "root" * Enter password for root * systemctl restart display-manager.service
and frankly you should run large updates including KDE anyways in a VT and not within the grapcial user session (at least as long as KDE5 is in general unstable like hell)
BTW: in better days CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE just killed the graphical sesssion until some fools declared it as a security problem because some foreigner could do that while you locked your session (that foreigner could press the power button too)
don't ask me where but i restored that behavior long ago (xorg config alone is not enough)
On 12/12/15 11:03 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.12.2015 um 11:26 schrieb Dariusz J. Garbowski:
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
This is unacceptable.
Not being able to logout is a security issue and possible threat to filesystem integrity if the user has to "hard reset" by pressing the reset/power button
while i agree to the other rant when you need the power button just because you can't log out from whatever desktop on a Linux system the problem is in front of the screen
- CTRL+ALT+F2
- Enter "root"
- Enter password for root
- systemctl restart display-manager.service
I wasn't aware of display-manager.service (one learns a new thing every day...) so I would have ended up using reboot command. But this just isn't right -- what do I need DE for if even "logout"-replacement has to be done from command line, as root! I wanted to wait and see if there's something suggested to debug or diagnose the issue.
and frankly you should run large updates including KDE anyways in a VT and not within the grapcial user session (at least as long as KDE5 is in general unstable like hell)
As much as I agree considering the sorry state of KDE5, this is perhaps acceptable for Alpha quality software with big release notes listing known issues and workarounds. As KDE5 goes, it's apparently what is considered release quality...
BTW: in better days CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE just killed the graphical sesssion until some fools declared it as a security problem because some foreigner could do that while you locked your session (that foreigner could press the power button too)
Couldn't agree more. As a poor replacement I usually end up on VT with killall XOrg...
Regards, Dariusz
On Sat, 2015-12-12 at 12:33 +0000, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
I wasn't aware of display-manager.service (one learns a new thing every day...) so I would have ended up using reboot command.
You can also do "init 3" (as root), which has always worked on Linux and continues to do so. Then log in as root and do "init 5".
poc
On 12/13/15 02:58, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2015-12-12 at 12:33 +0000, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
I wasn't aware of display-manager.service (one learns a new thing every day...) so I would have ended up using reboot command.
You can also do "init 3" (as root), which has always worked on Linux and continues to do so. Then log in as root and do "init 5".
And there is always "killall -u username".
Il 12/12/2015 22:57, Ed Greshko ha scritto:
On 12/13/15 02:58, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2015-12-12 at 12:33 +0000, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
I wasn't aware of display-manager.service (one learns a new thing every day...) so I would have ended up using reboot command.
You can also do "init 3" (as root), which has always worked on Linux and continues to do so. Then log in as root and do "init 5".
And there is always "killall -u username".
There's also "yum install trinity-desktop-all".:-(
Form me it worked like a charm.
Now I have a stable desktop environment to do useful work, providing all the features I can't do without, and I can play with KDE just to test it when I have some spare time, waiting for the day it'll provide the stability and features I need.
Giuliano
Am 13.12.2015 um 00:50 schrieb Giuliano Colla:
Il 12/12/2015 22:57, Ed Greshko ha scritto:
On 12/13/15 02:58, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2015-12-12 at 12:33 +0000, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
I wasn't aware of display-manager.service (one learns a new thing every day...) so I would have ended up using reboot command.
You can also do "init 3" (as root), which has always worked on Linux and continues to do so. Then log in as root and do "init 5".
And there is always "killall -u username".
There's also "yum install trinity-desktop-all".:-(
Form me it worked like a charm.
Now I have a stable desktop environment to do useful work, providing all the features I can't do without, and I can play with KDE just to test it when I have some spare time, waiting for the day it'll provide the stability and features I need
given what i had to puke abut KDE4 years ago at that day KDE6 will strart to punish us
On Sunday 13 December 2015 00:50:16 Giuliano Colla wrote:
There's also "yum install trinity-desktop-all".
There is as well kde4-fedora repo in copr for those who are ok with KDE4 :
https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/peem/kde4-fedora/
Regards, Piotr
Il 14/12/2015 11:17, Piotr Gbyliczek ha scritto:
On Sunday 13 December 2015 00:50:16 Giuliano Colla wrote:
There's also "yum install trinity-desktop-all".
There is as well kde4-fedora repo in copr for those who are ok with KDE4 :
The mere fact that someone takes the burden to provide KDE3 and KDE4 for the latest Fedora should tell something to KDE developers, and maybe also to Fedora packagers.
Giuliano
agreed.
On 12/14/15 14:36, Giuliano Colla wrote:
Il 14/12/2015 11:17, Piotr Gbyliczek ha scritto:
On Sunday 13 December 2015 00:50:16 Giuliano Colla wrote:
There's also "yum install trinity-desktop-all".
There is as well kde4-fedora repo in copr for those who are ok with KDE4 :
The mere fact that someone takes the burden to provide KDE3 and KDE4 for the latest Fedora should tell something to KDE developers, and maybe also to Fedora packagers.
Giuliano _______________________________________________ kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
Ok, so after today's update I can't log out of KDE, nor can I execute "Lock", "New session", "Suspend", "Restart", "Shutdown". An unhelpful dialog with "Malformed URL" message pops up and I am given a choice to "OK" it or... I don't know, close with window "close" widget.
...
Not being able to logout is a security issue and possible threat to filesystem integrity if the user has to "hard reset" by pressing the reset/power button.
Questions:
- Anybody has any ideas how to properly quit KDE?
There are multiple ways to logout/restart, one alternative is to use krunner:
ALT-F2: logout ALT-F2: restart ALT-F2: shutdown
-- Rex
On Saturday 12 Dec 2015 7:18:19 PM Rex Dieter wrote:
There are multiple ways to logout/restart, one alternative is to use krunner:
ALT-F2: logout ALT-F2: restart ALT-F2: shutdown
At some point of time it would be nice to have a widget that would tell user that a major update has been performed and user must reboot or restart the session.
On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 14:18 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Saturday 12 Dec 2015 7:18:19 PM Rex Dieter wrote:
There are multiple ways to logout/restart, one alternative is to use krunner:
ALT-F2: logout ALT-F2: restart ALT-F2: shutdown
At some point of time it would be nice to have a widget that would tell user that a major update has been performed and user must reboot or restart the session.
As I only ever update via dnf, I run tracer to check this.
poc
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 11:50:23 AM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
As I only ever update via dnf, I run tracer to check this.
I didn't know about that but generally anytime there is a kernel, frameworks, plasma desktop, or apps release I reboot my system.
I use dnf almost exclusively too but Discover is getting better and better. I might completely switch to using Discover, update manager and the software update widget for package management.
On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 19:51 +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 11:50:23 AM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
As I only ever update via dnf, I run tracer to check this.
I didn't know about that but generally anytime there is a kernel, frameworks, plasma desktop, or apps release I reboot my system.
That's not usually necessary, though it's often faster.
I use dnf almost exclusively too but Discover is getting better and better. I might completely switch to using Discover, update manager and the software update widget for package management.
I don't know what that is. If it's a front-end for dnf I might consider it, otherwise I don't think so.
Yesterday my regular update installed something called muon-discover. Is that what you mean? My first reaction was annoyance as the package contains absolutely no indication of what it is or why I would want it. I had to Google to find out it had something to do with software installation, but I still have no idea how it relates to anything else.
Is this a new low point in documentation?
poc
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 3:16:01 PM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
I don't know what that is. If it's a front-end for dnf I might consider it, otherwise I don't think so.
Yesterday my regular update installed something called muon-discover. Is that what you mean? My first reaction was annoyance as the package contains absolutely no indication of what it is or why I would want it. I had to Google to find out it had something to do with software installation, but I still have no idea how it relates to anything else.
Is this a new low point in documentation?
Yeah, it's a software discovery and package management tool. Upstream choose it as the default software installer.
True. There is no homepage or documentation.
There is no summary or description of muon-discover and URL of muon et al. 404s.
$ rpm -qa | grep muon muon-updater-5.5.0-1.fc23.x86_64 muon-5.5.0-1.fc23.x86_64 muon-discover-5.5.0-1.fc23.x86_64 muon-libs-5.5.0-1.fc23.x86_64
The correct URL being https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:47 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 3:16:01 PM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
I don't know what that is. If it's a front-end for dnf I might consider it, otherwise I don't think so.
Yesterday my regular update installed something called muon-discover. Is that what you mean? My first reaction was annoyance as the package contains absolutely no indication of what it is or why I would want it. I had to Google to find out it had something to do with software installation, but I still have no idea how it relates to anything else.
Is this a new low point in documentation?
Yeah, it's a software discovery and package management tool. Upstream choose it as the default software installer.
True. There is no homepage or documentation.
There is no summary or description of muon-discover and URL of muon et al. 404s.
The correct URL being https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon
"A collection of package management tools for Debian-based systems" - so why do we get that crap pulled on a Redhat system like we would not have already enough half-baken GUI package managmenet stuff?
On Dec 13, 2015 8:51 PM, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:47 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 3:16:01 PM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
I don't know what that is. If it's a front-end for dnf I might consider it, otherwise I don't think so.
Yesterday my regular update installed something called muon-discover. Is that what you mean? My first reaction was annoyance as the package contains absolutely no indication of what it is or why I would want it. I had to Google to find out it had something to do with software installation, but I still have no idea how it relates to anything else.
Is this a new low point in documentation?
Yeah, it's a software discovery and package management tool. Upstream
choose
it as the default software installer.
True. There is no homepage or documentation.
There is no summary or description of muon-discover and URL of muon et
al.
404s.
The correct URL being https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon
"A collection of package management tools for Debian-based systems" - so
why do we get that crap pulled on a Redhat system like we would not have already enough half-baken GUI package managmenet stuff?
I think we use the PackageKit backend, it is better than Apper.
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Reindl Harald ha scritto:
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:47 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 3:16:01 PM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
I don't know what that is. If it's a front-end for dnf I might consider it, otherwise I don't think so.
Yesterday my regular update installed something called muon-discover. Is that what you mean? My first reaction was annoyance as the package contains absolutely no indication of what it is or why I would want it. I had to Google to find out it had something to do with software installation, but I still have no idea how it relates to anything else.
Is this a new low point in documentation?
Yeah, it's a software discovery and package management tool. Upstream choose it as the default software installer.
True. There is no homepage or documentation.
There is no summary or description of muon-discover and URL of muon et al. 404s.
The correct URL being https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon
"A collection of package management tools for Debian-based systems" - so why do we get that crap pulled on a Redhat system like we would not have already enough half-baken GUI package managmenet stuff?
Muon (the UI) is not part of the Plasma project (moved to its own release schedule). The discover part (in the "discover" module) was split out from Muon really recently, it's part of the Plasma project (even if I think it's not a core dependency, just a "higher level application") and it has different backends, including PackageKit.
Am 13.12.2015 um 15:21 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 11:50:23 AM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
As I only ever update via dnf, I run tracer to check this.
I didn't know about that but generally anytime there is a kernel, frameworks, plasma desktop, or apps release I reboot my system.
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
there are only very few things where it might be easier to reboot than restart long running services like glibc, libstdc and even then a script does the job (/usr/bin/killall systemd to get all that stupid sd-pam processes hanging around restartet and reload the daemon)
[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ cat /usr/local/bin/restart-all-services.sh #!/usr/bin/bash /usr/bin/systemctl condrestart accounts-daemon.service acpid.service alsa-state.service apcupsd.service avahi-daemon.service clamav-milter.service clamd.service crond.service dbmail-imapd.service dbmail-lmtpd.service dbmail-pop3d.service dbmail-timsieved.service dhcpd-guest.service dhcpd.service dm-event.service dnsmasq.service dovecot.service haveged.service hostapd-guest.service hostapd.service httpd.service imapproxy.service irqbalance.service jabber.service lm_sensors.service lvm2-lvmetad.service mailgraph.service mdmonitor.service mediatomb.service monitor-dbmail-imapd.service monitor-dbmail-lmtpd.service monitor-dbmail-pop3d.service monitor-httpd.service mpdscribble.service mpd.service named.service netatalk.service ntpd.service openvpn-server.service openvpn.service polkit.service postfix.service preload.service pulsed.service pure-ftpd.service rbldnsd.service replication.service rngd.service rsyncd.service rsyslog.service rtkit-daemon.service serverstatus.service smartd.service smb.service smokeping.service spamassassin.service spamass-milter.service spamd-debug.service sshd.service systemd-udevd.service trafficserver.service udisks2.service unbound.service upower.service vmtoolsd.service vnstat.service asterisk.service asteriskweb.service xinetd.service openvpn-as.service openvpn-flow.service openvpn-io.service openvpn-rh.service openvpn-south.service dhcpd-vmware.service cups.service openvas-gsa.service openvas-manager.service openvas-scanner.service sleep 2 /usr/bin/killall systemd
On Dec 13, 2015 7:59 PM, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 15:21 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 11:50:23 AM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
As I only ever update via dnf, I run tracer to check this.
I didn't know about that but generally anytime there is a kernel,
frameworks,
plasma desktop, or apps release I reboot my system.
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
Because it's fast enough, you don't need to kill everything instead of waiting 30-60 seconds for a reboot, especially given that Fedora updates major components (kernel libc, X, etc.) often so you better reboot anyway.
there are only very few things where it might be easier to reboot than
restart long running services like glibc, libstdc and even then a script does the job (/usr/bin/killall systemd to get all that stupid sd-pam processes hanging around restartet and reload the daemon)
[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ cat /usr/local/bin/restart-all-services.sh #!/usr/bin/bash /usr/bin/systemctl condrestart accounts-daemon.service acpid.service
alsa-state.service apcupsd.service avahi-daemon.service clamav-milter.service clamd.service crond.service dbmail-imapd.service dbmail-lmtpd.service dbmail-pop3d.service dbmail-timsieved.service dhcpd-guest.service dhcpd.service dm-event.service dnsmasq.service dovecot.service haveged.service hostapd-guest.service hostapd.service httpd.service imapproxy.service irqbalance.service jabber.service lm_sensors.service lvm2-lvmetad.service mailgraph.service mdmonitor.service mediatomb.service monitor-dbmail-imapd.service monitor-dbmail-lmtpd.service monitor-dbmail-pop3d.service monitor-httpd.service mpdscribble.service mpd.service named.service netatalk.service ntpd.service openvpn-server.service openvpn.service polkit.service postfix.service preload.service pulsed.service pure-ftpd.service rbldnsd.service replication.service rngd.service rsyncd.service rsyslog.service rtkit-daemon.service serverstatus.service smartd.service smb.service smokeping.service spamassassin.service spamass-milter.service spamd-debug.service sshd.service systemd-udevd.service trafficserver.service udisks2.service unbound.service upower.service vmtoolsd.service vnstat.service asterisk.service asteriskweb.service xinetd.service openvpn-as.service openvpn-flow.service openvpn-io.service openvpn-rh.service openvpn-south.service dhcpd-vmware.service cups.service openvas-gsa.service openvas-manager.service openvas-scanner.service
sleep 2 /usr/bin/killall systemd
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:52 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 7:59 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
Because it's fast enough, you don't need to kill everything instead of waiting 30-60 seconds for a reboot,
nonsense - why should i wait 30-60 seconds when i just need to restart my graphical session?
especially given that Fedora updates major components (kernel libc, X, etc.) often so you better reboot anyway
"reboot anyway" is nonsense - you reboot *when* that major compoents got updated and not because something else - this is *not* windows
X is fure sure *none* of them because restarting the displaymanager also restarts X and before sddm with it's 3 processes arrived you needed nothing to do at all
On Dec 13, 2015 8:58 PM, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:52 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 7:59 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
Because it's fast enough, you don't need to kill everything instead of waiting 30-60 seconds for a reboot,
nonsense - why should i wait 30-60 seconds when i just need to restart my
graphical session?
especially given that Fedora updates major components (kernel libc, X, etc.) often so you better reboot anyway
"reboot anyway" is nonsense - you reboot *when* that major compoents got
updated and not because something else - this is *not* windows
X is fure sure *none* of them because restarting the displaymanager also
restarts X and before sddm with it's 3 processes arrived you needed nothing to do at all
Because for most people who don't check the entire list of updated packages, it is faster than searching for kernel or glibc or systemd or whatever else in the list.
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am 13.12.2015 um 19:06 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 8:58 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:52 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 7:59 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net
<mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net>> wrote:
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
Because it's fast enough, you don't need to kill everything instead of waiting 30-60 seconds for a reboot,
nonsense - why should i wait 30-60 seconds when i just need to
restart my graphical session?
especially given that Fedora updates major components (kernel libc, X, etc.) often so you better reboot
anyway
"reboot anyway" is nonsense - you reboot *when* that major compoents
got updated and not because something else - this is *not* windows
X is fure sure *none* of them because restarting the displaymanager
also restarts X and before sddm with it's 3 processes arrived you needed nothing to do at all
Because for most people who don't check the entire list of updated packages, it is faster than searching for kernel or glibc or systemd or whatever else in the list
because fools don't check the list of *already updated* packages while they should check it *before* to get an idea of the possible impact we talk about a Linux system as it would be Microsoft Windows?
seriously?
do what you want but please avoid on a public list to sound like Linux needs a reboot every time you touch it
in fact as long as you don#t have network aware services it don't matter that a view background processes have loaded a older library and with logout/login you kill any process actively used by your session
On Dec 13, 2015 9:15 PM, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 19:06 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 8:58 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 18:52 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 7:59 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net
<mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net>>
wrote:
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead
logout/login?
Because it's fast enough, you don't need to kill everything instead
of
waiting 30-60 seconds for a reboot,
nonsense - why should i wait 30-60 seconds when i just need to
restart my graphical session?
especially given that Fedora updates major components (kernel libc, X, etc.) often so you better reboot
anyway
"reboot anyway" is nonsense - you reboot *when* that major compoents
got updated and not because something else - this is *not* windows
X is fure sure *none* of them because restarting the displaymanager
also restarts X and before sddm with it's 3 processes arrived you needed nothing to do at all
Because for most people who don't check the entire list of updated packages, it is faster than searching for kernel or glibc or systemd or whatever else in the list
because fools don't check the list of *already updated* packages while
they should check it *before* to get an idea of the possible impact we talk about a Linux system as it would be Microsoft Windows?
seriously?
do what you want but please avoid on a public list to sound like Linux
needs a reboot every time you touch it
You should not call normal users fools, they trust their system and its maintainers, not every user knows the packages and their purpose. kernel, systemd, and others needs reboot to activate the newer versions, and if some user who doesn't know what glibc trusted the package maintainers and updated everything, he is not a fool.
in fact as long as you don#t have network aware services it don't matter
that a view background processes have loaded a older library and with logout/login you kill any process actively used by your session
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am 13.12.2015 um 19:29 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 9:15 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net
because fools don't check the list of *already updated* packages
while they should check it *before* to get an idea of the possible impact we talk about a Linux system as it would be Microsoft Windows?
You should not call normal users fools, they trust their system and its maintainers, not every user knows the packages and their purpose. kernel, systemd, and others needs reboot to activate the newer versions, and if some user who doesn't know what glibc trusted the package maintainers and updated everything, he is not a fool
sorry, but blindly apply updates is foolish, on every OS but anyways, that type of users are *not* on this list or at least in this thread and there is no reason sounding like act this way is a good idea
Reindl Harald wrote:
sorry, but blindly apply updates is foolish, on every OS but anyways, that type of users are *not* on this list or at least in this thread and there is no reason sounding like act this way is a good idea
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora.
On Dec 13, 2015 9:57 PM, "Timothy Murphy" gayleard@eircom.net wrote:
Reindl Harald wrote:
sorry, but blindly apply updates is foolish, on every OS but anyways, that type of users are *not* on this list or at least in this thread and there is no reason sounding like act this way is a good idea
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every
day.
Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around
Fedora.
Unless I am updating from updates-testing for specific packages, I do dnf distro-sync -y Or dnf update - y
And I mostly run Rawhide :)
Mustafa
-- Timothy Murphy gayleard /at/ eircom.net School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am 13.12.2015 um 19:57 schrieb Timothy Murphy:
Reindl Harald wrote:
sorry, but blindly apply updates is foolish, on every OS but anyways, that type of users are *not* on this list or at least in this thread and there is no reason sounding like act this way is a good idea
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
when i have no clue was my systems are doing i am ending in problems without any context where they could come from
On Dec 13, 2015 10:02 PM, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 19:57 schrieb Timothy Murphy:
Reindl Harald wrote:
sorry, but blindly apply updates is foolish, on every OS but anyways, that type of users are *not* on this list or at least in this thread and there is no reason sounding like act this way is a good idea
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every
day.
Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around
Fedora
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on
several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
when i have no clue was my systems are doing i am ending in problems
without any context where they could come from
There are logs, you know, for every dnf operation.
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am 13.12.2015 um 20:05 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 10:02 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on
several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
when i have no clue was my systems are doing i am ending in problems
without any context where they could come from
There are logs, you know, for every dnf operation
if things would always be that easy.....
ther is a difference applying an update and know about or get it installed randomly in the background and even not realize what and when which application is using old or new versions
frankly even with be careful it's not always that easy, the reason for my kopete crashes by close message windows or tabs was a kdelibs4 update while a ton of other applications had no issues
P.S: fix your mail-client to aplly proper linewrapping in quotes
I just read through this thread, and we skipped over a partial solution this. Tracer. This isn't just a KDE problem, this is a Fedora problem, I think we should push to have the tracer plugin for DNF installed by default. This will protect anyone who updates via the command line by explicitly saying "you must reboot/logout to conclude the package update because: xyz."
I also think we should consider plugging tracer into PackageKit so that anyone updates via Muon/Apper can get a visual notification saying "You must reboot/logout to complete this update."
Software's covered by this by way of the Offline Updates it does.
Now, tracer wouldn't protect against an incompatibility that was introduced immediately. Such as the SELinux bug a couple months ago, but at least a notification saying "An update/logout is required" would -inform- users.
I admit, I, like others, freely update without a second thought. I shouldn't do it, but I do. But I'm advanced enough to know how to fix issues like these-- we shouldn't assume all users are. This bug issue would've been really bad for a user who just installed Fedora today and immediately hit it.
On Dec 13, 2015 14:17, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 20:05 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 10:02 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on
several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
when i have no clue was my systems are doing i am ending in problems
without any context where they could come from
There are logs, you know, for every dnf operation
if things would always be that easy.....
ther is a difference applying an update and know about or get it
installed randomly in the background and even not realize what and when which application is using old or new versions
frankly even with be careful it's not always that easy, the reason for my
kopete crashes by close message windows or tabs was a kdelibs4 update while a ton of other applications had no issues
P.S: fix your mail-client to aplly proper linewrapping in quotes
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 17:39 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
I just read through this thread, and we skipped over a partial solution this. Tracer. This isn't just a KDE problem, this is a Fedora problem, I think we should push to have the tracer plugin for DNF installed by default. This will protect anyone who updates via the command line by explicitly saying "you must reboot/logout to conclude the package update because: xyz."
In fact I already mentioned that I use it (manually) after running dnf. I also have the plugin installed but it never seems to be called automatically, though the equivalent in yum did work as expected.
poc
On Dec 13, 2015 19:21, "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 17:39 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
I just read through this thread, and we skipped over a partial solution this. Tracer. This isn't just a KDE problem, this is a Fedora problem, I think we should push to have the tracer plugin for DNF installed by default. This will protect anyone who updates via the command line by explicitly saying "you must reboot/logout to conclude the package update because: xyz."
In fact I already mentioned that I use it (manually) after running dnf.
I said skipped over, not ignored :) I saw you mention it but that conversation died quickly, when it shouldnt have.
I also have the plugin installed but it never seems to be called automatically, though the equivalent in yum did work as expected.
Make sure you've got the right plugin installed. Python2 for F22, Python3 for F23. I know some plugins have diff packages for diff versions, don't know for sure if Tracer does.
On Mon, 2015-12-14 at 00:53 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
On Dec 13, 2015 19:21, "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 17:39 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
I just read through this thread, and we skipped over a partial solution this. Tracer. This isn't just a KDE problem, this is a Fedora problem, I think we should push to have the tracer plugin for DNF installed by default. This will protect anyone who updates via the command line by explicitly saying "you must reboot/logout to conclude the package update because: xyz."
In fact I already mentioned that I use it (manually) after running dnf.
I said skipped over, not ignored :) I saw you mention it but that conversation died quickly, when it shouldnt have.
I also have the plugin installed but it never seems to be called automatically, though the equivalent in yum did work as expected.
Make sure you've got the right plugin installed. Python2 for F22, Python3 for F23. I know some plugins have diff packages for diff versions, don't know for sure if Tracer does.
The package is python-dnf-plugins-extras-tracer-0.11-1.fc23.noarch but it's installed under /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dnf-plugins. The code itself doesn't refer to any specific version of Python, but dnf itself is written to Python3 so perhaps it's not calling the plugin.
Looks like a packaging error. I tried reinstalling the plugin and nothing changed.
poc
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.12.2015 um 20:05 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Dec 13, 2015 10:02 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on
several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
when i have no clue was my systems are doing i am ending in problems
without any context where they could come from
There are logs, you know, for every dnf operation
if things would always be that easy.....
ther is a difference applying an update and know about or get it installed randomly in the background and even not realize what and when which application is using old or new versions
frankly even with be careful it's not always that easy, the reason for my kopete crashes by close message windows or tabs was a kdelibs4 update while a ton of other applications had no issues
P.S: fix your mail-client to aplly proper linewrapping in quotes
I'll try, it's Gmail app on a nexus, thank you.
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Reindl Harald wrote:
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
Fortunately I can always rely on your help!
But seriously, what exactly do you do after reading through a list of say 100 updates (by no means unusual in recent times)? Do you type out the ones you like, or do you exclude the ones you don't like?
Actually, I can't recall any problems I've had recently with Fedora that could be put down to running "dnf -y update". Most of my problems are either connected with hardware (why does my Linksys WRT54GL router keep disconecting?) or else with software I don't understand (KDE Connect).
Am 13.12.2015 um 23:59 schrieb Timothy Murphy:
Reindl Harald wrote:
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora
well, ask yourself why you have over many years problem threads on several fedora mailing lists where you have not been able to say anything helpful what changed on your system and rely on crystal balls of others :-)
Fortunately I can always rely on your help!
But seriously, what exactly do you do after reading through a list of say 100 updates (by no means unusual in recent times)? Do you type out the ones you like, or do you exclude the ones you don't like?
* critical things like systemd, kernel, glibc in a VM first * install them in two or three stages * test my main applications after each stage * logout before apply desktop updates
after years of Fedora you learn which packages affect half of your system, just run "lsof | grep DEL | grep /usr" regulary after updates and you get a picture how packages interact with others
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 6:57:33 PM Timothy Murphy wrote:
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora.
I will have to say that is a norm for most folks. Even if you see what's being updated there is no way tell if something is going to break your system unless you are following every project on the planet.
Am 14.12.2015 um 11:09 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 6:57:33 PM Timothy Murphy wrote:
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora.
I will have to say that is a norm for most folks
no it is not and i even go so far to say it's only norm for *careless folks* while i did not met anybody acting that way in real life
Even if you see what's being updated there is no way tell if something is going to break your system unless you are following every project on the planet
pure nonsense
i do not need to follow every project on the plant to understand when there are kde packages it *may* break something desktop specific and i can tell you at least 50 packages where i know where they are linked
i do not need to follow every project on the plant to understand than after a openjdk upodate it's a good idea to restart eclipse, the better even stop it before
and *don't* come up now with "normal folks" - it took less than two months after switching from Windows XP to Fedora to start understanding how packages are interact with each other
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 14.12.2015 um 11:09 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 6:57:33 PM Timothy Murphy wrote:
I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora.
I will have to say that is a norm for most folks
no it is not and i even go so far to say it's only norm for *careless folks* while i did not met anybody acting that way in real life
We are talking about "normal" users, they might don't even know what packages are, and they should not need to, just like Windows and OS X, you are talking about sysadmins.
Even if you see what's being
updated there is no way tell if something is going to break your system unless you are following every project on the planet
pure nonsense
i do not need to follow every project on the plant to understand when there are kde packages it *may* break something desktop specific and i can tell you at least 50 packages where i know where they are linked
i do not need to follow every project on the plant to understand than after a openjdk upodate it's a good idea to restart eclipse, the better even stop it before
and *don't* come up now with "normal folks" - it took less than two months after switching from Windows XP to Fedora to start understanding how packages are interact with each other
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am 14.12.2015 um 12:47 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 14.12.2015 um 11:09 schrieb Sudhir Khanger: On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 6:57:33 PM Timothy Murphy wrote: I must admit I say (through a script) "sudo dnf -y update" almost every day. Am I really alone on this list? Life is too short to do otherwise, unless one's life revolves around Fedora. I will have to say that is a norm for most folks no it is not and i even go so far to say it's only norm for *careless folks* while i did not met anybody acting that way in real lifeWe are talking about "normal" users, they might don't even know what packages are, and they should not need to, just like Windows and OS X
no, everybody *should know* some basics about his operating system
pretend that a operating system should act like a blackbox to a user is dangerous (to not say silly) and defeats the whole purpose of a free operating system
when you want something like Windows and OSX *use it*
you are talking about sysadmins
from the moment on nobody is babysitting your machine you are a sysadmin and should realize that damned
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 5:59:22 PM Reindl Harald wrote:
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
Is it possible to restart the session without logout/login? Something that wouldn't ask me for to enter password but restart the session just same. I reboot because logout/login vs reboot takes same amount of efforts and time.
Am 15.12.2015 um 08:46 schrieb Sudhir Khanger:
On Sunday 13 Dec 2015 5:59:22 PM Reindl Harald wrote:
why would someone reboot because a KDE update instead logout/login?
Is it possible to restart the session without logout/login? Something that wouldn't ask me for to enter password but restart the session just same. I reboot because logout/login vs reboot takes same amount of efforts and time.
why should logout, type in user password take longer than reboot and type in user and password? you save the shutdown and bootprocess
if you now tell me about autologin and not knowing your password i better say nothing to not get moderated......
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