On Sat 30 April 2011 14:36:02 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Martin Gräßlin mgraesslin@kde.org
wrote:
On Saturday 30 April 2011 22:04:12 Ben Cooksley wrote:
OpenSUSE 11.3 (which KWin claims is insufficient in terms of it's Mesa version) isn't even 9 months old.
Please take steps to improve the user experience.
And here we have a conflict of possibilities. Mesa developers want us to drop support for older drivers so that we can have a more secure way of checking the capabilities without getting broken by the drivers if they do changes. Now you ask us to improve the user experience by again relying on possibly broken checks. We cannot support old and modern drivers at the same time - at least it looks like that.
Note that I didn't ask for support for Mesa 7.9 or earlier. What I asked for is that your configuration ui makes it explicit that Compositing is unavailable due to Mesa being too old.
KWin has never provided information like that for cases like software rasterizer being used or crashers when activating KWin. In fact compositing is in all such cases possible through XRender. Some issues like e.g. Software Rasterizer being used or Mesa being outdated can only be discovered when actually using the driver and is by that not available to the config module.
Kwin could show a notification which does not help as the user would never be able to see it. And as explained in my previous mail users will not hit the problem: all modern distributions ship mesa 7.10 and we will communicate in the release note and also to the distributions that KWin requires Mesa 7.10.
Hmmm, that's unfortunate. Fedora 14 won't get kde-workspace 4.7 then, it looks like, since it's stuck on mesa 7.9 for the forseeable future. :( Six months != modern, I suppose...?
The only reason I knew is because I grepped ~/.xsession-errors.
Which is totally fine as you are an experienced user.
I know people do in-place upgrades of their KDE installations - they will run right into this.
They won't. Either they are experienced and compile by themselves or use distro packages which will know about the increased requirement.
No current distribution is shipping less than Mesa 7.10 and the change is for KWin 4.7 which will be only used by either current distributions or the next distribution releases, e.g. OpenSUSE 12.0.
I am sorry to say that we are not able to fullfill your wish. It is unlikely that a "user" will face such an issue. We will clearly communicate in our release notes that KWin 4.7 will require Mesa 7.10. A developer has no problem with lack of notification as we print out a debug statement.
Cheers Martin
Regards, Ben
Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Ryan Rix wrote:
Hmmm, that's unfortunate. Fedora 14 won't get kde-workspace 4.7 then, it looks like, since it's stuck on mesa 7.9 for the forseeable future. :( Six months != modern, I suppose...?
Our current plan is only one KDE SC update per Fedora release (e.g. we didn't push 4.5 to F12 nor 4.6 to F13), which means no 4.7 for F14 anyway. It looks like you will have to upgrade to F15 to get 4.7.
We could easily patch KWin to accept F14's Mesa for desktop effects. We may end up doing that for unofficial (kde-redhat) packages if we make any. (We made some for 4.5 on F12; we didn't for 4.6 on F13 because KAuth wants a newer polkit-qt which wants a newer polkit than the one in F13, which probably could have been hacked around too, but we decided not to bother.)
Kevin Kofler
On Sun, 01 May 2011 22:46:50 -0700, Ryan Rix ry@n.rix.si wrote:
On Sat 30 April 2011 14:36:02 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Martin Gräßlin
wrote:
On Saturday 30 April 2011 22:04:12 Ben Cooksley wrote:
OpenSUSE 11.3 (which KWin claims is insufficient in terms of it's Mesa version) isn't even 9 months old.
Please take steps to improve the user experience.
And here we have a conflict of possibilities. Mesa developers
want
us to drop support for older drivers so that we can have a more
secure
way of checking the capabilities without getting broken by the drivers if they do changes. Now you ask us to improve the user
experience by
again relying on possibly broken checks. We cannot support old
and
modern drivers at the same time - at least it looks like that.
Note that I didn't ask for support for Mesa 7.9 or earlier. What I asked for is that your configuration ui makes it explicit that Compositing is unavailable due to Mesa being too old.
KWin has never provided information like that for cases like software rasterizer being used or crashers when activating KWin. In fact compositing is in all such cases possible through XRender. Some issues like e.g. Software Rasterizer being used or Mesa being outdated can only be discovered when actually using the driver and is by that not available to the config module.
Kwin could show a notification which does not help as the user would never be able to see it. And as explained in my previous mail users will not hit the problem: all modern distributions ship mesa 7.10 and we will communicate in the release note and also to the distributions that KWin requires Mesa 7.10.
Hmmm, that's unfortunate. Fedora 14 won't get kde-workspace 4.7 then, it looks like, since it's stuck on mesa 7.9 for the forseeable future. :( Six months != modern, I suppose...?
This is now a little bit surprising for me as it was a Fedora developer who urged me into raising the requirements. In fact I was even asked to raise it for the next minor release as a bugfix.
If you think that the kde-workspaces need to support more than one driver, please explain it to the Mesa developers and why we need hacks to identify specific driver versions and why such hacks my not be broken by minor releases of drivers. The driver developers made it very clear that they expect us to only support the latest drivers and remove all hacks to support old drivers.
Cheers Martin
-
Kevin Kofler -
Martin Gräßlin -
Ryan Rix