10:34 a.m.
The kde list is: kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Stephen is correct, this discussion shouldn't be on the development list
for the reasons he mentioned above. I've copied
the kde-list. please respond there if desired and remove reference to the
development list before sending.
I'd just like to reiterate my earlier comment:
"I believe you are missing the point of defaults.... which is to provide as
complete environment as possible out of the box. Since this is a KDE spin,
we should be providing as complete of a KDE environment as possible.
Users shouldn't be required to go on a treasure hunt to seek out available
KDE applications. The idea is to showcase what is available in KDE. If
you don't want to use a KDE default you can easily either go into settings
and change the defaults, remove the package you don't want, etc."
It's a KDE spin, not a Google spin, GNOME spin, UNITY spin, KDE-Lite spin
etc.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 2 October 2017 at 10:57, Sylvia Sánchez <bhkohane(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hello Stephen,
>
> So, according to you, this discussion won't change much KDE Spin?
I am trying to move this conversation from being bikeshedding to
possibly accomplishing something. The devel list is meant for general
discussion topics which affect the distribution as a whole or for
people to try and find who to contact on a specific problem.
Conversations on editions or effects which are run by SIGs do not seem
to get 'fixed' regularly in here because the people who are working on
it may not be on this list or htey may only filter it for once in a
while reading. They are more likely to be cognizant of emails and
topics that are on the dedicated SIG email.
> Besides, how do I join a SIG? Do you have a link by chance?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KDE
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde.lists.fedoraproject.org/
>
> Regards,
> Silvia
>
>
>
>
> 2017-10-02 15:16 GMT+01:00 Stephen John Smoogen <smooge(a)gmail.com>:
>>
>> On 2 October 2017 at 08:45, Sylvia Sánchez <bhkohane(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > It's not only a pain, it often ends in an unusable system.
>> > About the browsers, I don't like much Konqueror, actually is one of
>> > those
>> > programmes I uninstall first if it's around. What about Chromium
>> > instead?
>> > It's like Chrome and it's desktop agnostic so it works well and
looks
>> > good
>> > in any environment.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Silvia
>> >
>>
>> The way to make changes on the desktop spins is to join the SIG which
>> produces the sping and work there. Ways to make it work is find out
>> why they have chosen those defaults, what effects your wanted changes
>> would have, and do other people feel the same way. Talking about it on
>> this list is not going to get any changes or alternative spins (the
>> KDE minimal).
>>
>> A spin can look like a simple thing which is freely made, but it is a
>> lot of work which is why SIGs are needed for each one. Coming up with
>> what is going to be on it is part of the work because everyone wants
>> something different. There is testing the spin, making sure it doesn't
>> go over certain size limits, working out problems with icons and
>> discoverability, and similar tasks. Every SIG who is doing a spin are
>> always needing people who can help on those other items so helping
>> there would be a good way to explain why making other changes is
>> useful.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-10-02 12:58 GMT+01:00 Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com>:
>> >>
>> >> Dne 9.9.2017 v 17:47 Gerald B. Cox napsal(a):
>> >> >
>> >> > I believe you are missing the point of defaults.... which is to
>> >> > provide
>> >> > as complete environment as possible out of the box.
>> >>
>> >> I am a user of KDE Spin. And I *never* used this way. I always have
>> >> been
>> >> using it as a source for LiveImage so I can
>> >> have GUI with KDE (SDDM, Plasma, Kwin) and then install everything
else
>> >> I
>> >> need. It is much better than using official
>> >> sping with Gnome and then removing it (it is a huge pain).
>> >>
>> >> Thou I would leave konqueror on the list as it is always good to have
>> >> some
>> >> internet browser in the minimal installation.
>> >>
>> >> Mirek
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen J Smoogen.
>> _______________________________________________
>> devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
_______________________________________________
devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
4:36 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
Thanks for bringing the thread to the kde list.
Concretely, I see 2 low-hanging fruit to seriously consider:
* drop kde telepathy stuff from the spin. It's largely deprecated and
unmaintained (almost got dropped from kde-apps at prior maintainer's
request). No replacement (we have kopete, but it's still kde4-based, so
meh).
* drop one of the extra non-default browsers (*): qupzilla (soon to be
renamed), konqueror. of that list, konqueror is likely the least useful to
most users.
-- Rex
p.s. (*) and if folks want to re-open the can-of-worms default browser
topic again, please do so in a separate thread. My take per the last time
it was discussed is that we can't act on that until qupzilla is renamed.
12:09 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
Am 02.10.2017 um 23:36 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Thanks for bringing the thread to the kde list.
Concretely, I see 2 low-hanging fruit to seriously consider:
* drop kde telepathy stuff from the spin. It's largely deprecated and
unmaintained (almost got dropped from kde-apps at prior maintainer's
request). No replacement (we have kopete, but it's still kde4-based, so
meh)
interesting - a few years ago kopete was called deprecated and said "use
telepathy" - i have tried it short ago again and it's even not capable
to make a successful connection to our prosody server as it was years
ago the case
yes, thow it away - the dependency tree is a bad joke
12:24 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 2:36 PM, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> wrote:
Thanks for bringing the thread to the kde list.
Concretely, I see 2 low-hanging fruit to seriously consider:
* drop kde telepathy stuff from the spin. It's largely deprecated and
unmaintained (almost got dropped from kde-apps at prior maintainer's
request). No replacement (we have kopete, but it's still kde4-based, so
meh).
Yeah, pretty much agree with you and Harald. I never could get it to
work. In case
anyone is interested, Telegram has a very good Qt based native client
available from their
website. It's GPLv3. I've been using it for a few years now.
* drop one of the extra non-default browsers (*): qupzilla (soon to be
renamed), konqueror. of that list, konqueror is likely the least useful to
most users.
-- Rex
p.s. (*) and if folks want to re-open the can-of-worms default browser
topic again, please do so in a separate thread. My take per the last time
it was discussed is that we can't act on that until qupzilla is renamed.
Might as well wait for Falkon to be available and deal with Konqueror and
the default
issue at the same time.
1:04 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
--
Enviado desde mi móvil, disculpe la brevedad
William
El 2/10/2017 3:37 p. m., "Rex Dieter" <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> escribió:
Thanks for bringing the thread to the kde list.
Concretely, I see 2 low-hanging fruit to seriously consider:
* drop kde telepathy stuff from the spin. It's largely deprecated and
unmaintained (almost got dropped from kde-apps at prior maintainer's
request). No replacement (we have kopete, but it's still kde4-based, so
meh).
* drop one of the extra non-default browsers (*): qupzilla (soon to be
renamed), konqueror. of that list, konqueror is likely the least useful to
most users.
-- Rex
p.s. (*) and if folks want to re-open the can-of-worms default browser
topic again, please do so in a separate thread. My take per the last time
it was discussed is that we can't act on that until qupzilla is renamed.
Just curious, a survey about apps usage in the Plasma desktop can help here?
I mean make a survey app by app available in the Plasma desktop and ask:
Do you use it? N/S/A
Do you think this app should be part of a minimal plasma experience? Y/N
Do you think these could be part of the Plasma Live Install? Y/N
N/S/A is never sometimes always
Y/N is yes or not
I can get the beta release of Plasma F27 alpha and setup the survey in
Google Docs if you think it can be ussefull.
1:34 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
William Moreno wrote:
Just curious, a survey about apps usage in the Plasma desktop can
help
here?
...
I can get the beta release of Plasma F27 alpha and setup the survey
in
Google Docs if you think it can be ussefull.
Yes, I think that could be useful data that to help with future decision-
making.
-- Rex
2:10 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> wrote:
William Moreno wrote:
> Just curious, a survey about apps usage in the Plasma desktop can help
> here?
...
> I can get the beta release of Plasma F27 alpha and setup the survey in
> Google Docs if you think it can be ussefull.
Yes, I think that could be useful data that to help with future decision-
making.
Metrics are always interesting, but what are we trying to do here?
Are we trying to present a showcase for KDE upstream apps or are we wanting
to include only
apps that are viewed as popular. As least for me this has always been a
confusing point. For
example, I don't use kmail, kontacts, etc. I use Google web apps for
that. However, I consider kmail, kontacts,
etc. core kde applications and believe that should be defaults in the
Fedora KDE spin. Why, because I was
under the impression that the KDE SIG was wanting to promote KDE apps.
Under this logic, I would believe
the upcoming Falkon should be the default KDE browser, since that is what
upstream is doing.
I personally use many applications that aren't default... for example
copyq.... however, since the kde standard is
klipper I would never suggest that copyq should replace klipper as
default. If someone wants to use copyq it is quite easy to
install and use.
2:21 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
Are we trying to present a showcase for KDE upstream apps or are we
wanting to include only apps that are viewed as popular.
My opinion is that the spin is a general showcase for KDE software, but
pragmatism allows for some flexibility.
-- Rex
2:43 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> wrote:
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> Are we trying to present a showcase for KDE upstream apps or are we
> wanting to include only apps that are viewed as popular.
My opinion is that the spin is a general showcase for KDE software, but
pragmatism allows for some flexibility.
Ok, just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page here. There is
a
difference
between pragmatism and popularism. Hence the question about the metrics.
2:41 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
--
Enviado desde mi móvil, disculpe la brevedad
William
El 3/10/2017 1:11 p. m., "Gerald B. Cox" <gbcox(a)bzb.us> escribió:
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> wrote:
William Moreno wrote:
> Just curious, a survey about apps usage in the Plasma desktop can help
> here?
...
> I can get the beta release of Plasma F27 alpha and setup the survey in
> Google Docs if you think it can be ussefull.
Yes, I think that could be useful data that to help with future decision-
making.
Metrics are always interesting, but what are we trying to do here?
Get some feedback form the users of the plasma desktop, the live DVD is 1.5
GB and offers a impressive list of apps just want to known which apps are
the 20% of the plasma experience of the 80% of the users of the desktop
following the Pareto's rule.
9:02 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 8:36:13 AM AEDT Rex Dieter wrote:
Thanks for bringing the thread to the kde list.
Concretely, I see 2 low-hanging fruit to seriously consider:
* drop kde telepathy stuff from the spin. It's largely deprecated and
unmaintained (almost got dropped from kde-apps at prior maintainer's
request). No replacement (we have kopete, but it's still kde4-based, so
meh).
Should we be dropping basic 'it mostly works' functionality in favor of "You
can't use IM in the live image"? I would think telepathy is waaaay down on the
priority list of being slimmed down - being that there is no replacement as
yet.
* drop one of the extra non-default browsers (*): qupzilla (soon to be
renamed), konqueror. of that list, konqueror is likely the least useful to
most users.
I agree with one exception, we should ship only a single browser for the live
image. Anything more can be added after installation if the user wants - but
for the sake of slimlining, pick one and keep only that one.
--
Steven Haigh
📧 netwiz(a)crc.id.au 💻 http://www.crc.id.au
📞 +61 (3) 9001 6090 📱 0412 935 897
10:08 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
Steven Haigh wrote:
I agree with one exception, we should ship only a single browser for
the
live image. Anything more can be added after installation if the user
wants - but for the sake of slimlining, pick one and keep only that one.
The problem is, Anaconda does not support offering additional packages to
install on top of the live image at install time. The user has to find them
in the huge list of available packages after installation. That's why the
live image contains some stuff that is not necessary ON the live image.
That said, for the browser, I'd say keep just QupZilla/Falkon and throw out
everything else.
Kevin Kofler
11:01 p.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
.
That said, for the browser, I'd say keep just QupZilla/Falkon and throw out
everything else.
+1
7:18 a.m.
New subject: A less "bloated" KDE spin
Am 04.10.2017 um 04:02 schrieb Steven Haigh:
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 8:36:13 AM AEDT Rex Dieter wrote:
> Thanks for bringing the thread to the kde list.
>
> Concretely, I see 2 low-hanging fruit to seriously consider:
>
> * drop kde telepathy stuff from the spin. It's largely deprecated and
> unmaintained (almost got dropped from kde-apps at prior maintainer's
> request). No replacement (we have kopete, but it's still kde4-based, so
> meh).
Should we be dropping basic 'it mostly works' functionality in favor of
"You
can't use IM in the live image"? I would think telepathy is waaaay down on the
priority list of being slimmed down - being that there is no replacement as
yet.
yeah, what is a software woth that just dom' work at all, ktp is far
away from 'mostly works'
2389
days inactive
2391
days old
14 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Gerald B. Cox -
Kevin Kofler -
Reindl Harald -
Rex Dieter -
Steven Haigh -
William Moreno