kwin configuration files.

[Robin Laing]

Hello,

With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or been 
changed.  I upgraded and I am having issues and I am convinced that it 
is due to conflicts between configuration files.

I have searched for a answer on locations but I have not found one.

I want to delete/move some files to see what is causing my problems.

On test accounts that I have created, I don't have any issues so I want 
to check this out.

Robin

[Reindl Harald]

Am 19.12.2015 um 23:30 schrieb Robin Laing:
> With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or been
> changed

which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit

* read your old configs
* convert them when *rellay* needed
* act as before

anything else is poort developement far away from users, and YES i know 
that it can sometimes be hard after maintain spftware vor more than a 
decade - but it is possible when you *really* care about users

if it#s not possible - rethink your change that make you think so - in 
most cases you did bullshit and change for the sake of change o at least 
not deserved enough

the disasters KDE3->KDE4 and KDE4->KDE5 are the reason "ordinary users" 
never will switch to Linux and even expierienced users better shut up 
insetad tell them something will get better for a long term

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit

...

OK, moderation is happening again.  This is your final warning to clean up 
your conduct on this list.

You're on probation, further violations of the expected code of conduct will 
likely result in your being banned from this list.

-- Rex

[Reindl Harald]

Am 19.12.2015 um 23:56 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit
>
> ...
>
> OK, moderation is happening again.  This is your final warning to clean up
> your conduct on this list.
>
> You're on probation, further violations of the expected code of conduct will
> likely result in your being banned from this list

if you think so ban me from the list - but then i stop updates-testing 
and especially download koji-builds to give early feedback and just wait 
until enough other people recognized regressions like kdelibs today

did i insult anyone personally?
no!

i described the situation for endusers

if you want shiny feedback just wait the next tme fopr KDE 6.6 or better 
KDE 6.15 which hopefully not have that negative impact for your userbase 
as KDE4/KDE5 on Fedora had

[Glenn Holmer]

On 12/19/2015 04:56 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit
>
> ...
>
> OK, moderation is happening again.  This is your final warning to clean up 
> your conduct on this list.

I agree. I've been disappointed with Plasma 5 myself, especially the
glacial pace of bug fixes for things like session save early on and

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345403
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336089

(both of which are still broken).

But Harald, your posts are just... depressing. Have some ice cream and
chill out.

[Rex Dieter]

Robin Laing wrote:
> With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or been
> changed.  I upgraded and I am having issues and I am convinced that it
> is due to conflicts between configuration files.

In general, kde4 applications use

config: ~/.kde/share/config
data:   ~/.kde/share/apps/

and kf5/plasma5 applications use:

config: ~/.config/
data:   ~/.local/share/

as you can see, old kde4 configurations in general ought not conflict, since 
those old locations are no longer used.

-- Rex

[Felix Miata]

Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> config: ~/.config

Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/ than
all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to selectively
backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or .config/kde5 and/or
something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4 were, and
~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer, ~/.config/chromium
and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this clutter and decide it posed no
problem being so different from other apps?

[Rex Dieter]

Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > config: ~/.config
>
> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this clutter
> and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?

Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using XDG 
standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_HOME on
http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html

NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs if 
you prefer something other than their default locations.

-- Rex

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Felix Miata wrote:
> > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > > config: ~/.config
> >
> > Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> > than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> > selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> > .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> > were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> > ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this clutter
> > and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?
>
> Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using XDG
> standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_HOME on
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
>
> NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs if
> you prefer something other than their default locations

but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part 
of the configuration - until today i have not figured out what files to 
replicate from my user-account to /root/ to have the same settings up to 
toolbar there

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 01:53 schrieb Reindl Harald:
> Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> > > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > > > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > > > config: ~/.config
> > >
> > > Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> > > than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> > > selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> > > .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> > > were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> > > ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
> > > clutter
> > > and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?
> >
> > Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
> > XDG
> > standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
> > XDG_DATA_HOME on
> > http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
> >
> > NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own
> > needs if
> > you prefer something other than their default locations
>
> but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
> of the configuration - until today i have not figured out what files to
> replicate from my user-account to /root/ to have the same settings up to
> toolbar there

forgot to mention: kate (the thing permanently change owner/groups)
a smart design would be ~/.local/kate/

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> > > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > > > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > > > config: ~/.config
> > >
> > > Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> > > than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> > > selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> > > .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> > > were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> > > ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
> > > clutter and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
> > > apps?
> >
> > Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
> > XDG standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
> > XDG_DATA_HOME on
> > http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
> >
> > NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs
> > if you prefer something other than their default locations
>
> but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
> of the configuration

You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?

-- Rex

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 01:58 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> > > Felix Miata wrote:
> > > > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > > > > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > > > > config: ~/.config
> > > >
> > > > Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> > > > than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> > > > selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> > > > .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> > > > were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> > > > ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
> > > > clutter and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
> > > > apps?
> > >
> > > Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
> > > XDG standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
> > > XDG_DATA_HOME on
> > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
> > >
> > > NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs
> > > if you prefer something other than their default locations
> >
> > but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
> > of the configuration
>
> You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?

i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations

what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or 
just to backup and restore?

[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ locate /home/harry/ | grep kate
/home/harry/.config/katepartrc
/home/harry/.config/katerc
/home/harry/.config/kateschemarc
/home/harry/.config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
/home/harry/.config/katevirc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/default.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/fsbookmarks.xml
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/filetree
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katecloseexceptplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katekonsole
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/project
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions/Standardsitzung.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart/katepartui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartindentjscriptrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartpluginsrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartscriptrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katerc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katercJ13485.new
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/kateschemarc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katescriptingrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
/home/harry/.local/share/kate
/home/harry/.local/share/applications/kde4-kate.desktop
/home/harry/.local/share/kate/anonymous.katesession
/home/harry/.local/share/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart/katepart5ui.rc

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> > You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
>
> i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations

And that seems to vary from the specification.  If you want the 
specification changed, I'd suggest you take that up with freedesktop.org.

In the meantime, varying from the spec is a non-starter, imho.
> what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
> just to backup and restore?

At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/

-- Rex

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 02:05 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > > You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
> >
> > i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations
>
> And that seems to vary from the specification.  If you want the
> specification changed, I'd suggest you take that up with freedesktop.org.
>
> In the meantime, varying from the spec is a non-starter, imho.

you can follow the specs without create a mess
> > what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
> > just to backup and restore?
>
> At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/

fine - a mess

a sane application would just have *one* config file or if that is for 
whatever reason not enough *one folder* containing all its settings

"~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/" is a joke

with "~/.config/kate/" OR "~/.local/share/kate/" (the directory is the 
important point if someone thinks one rc-file is noth enough) you could 
simply rsync the settings - and kate is just *one* example

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> you can follow the specs without create a mess

OK, how exactly?  I'm genuinely curious how we can have bot  The only 
concrete suggestion you made so far didn't follow the specification.
> > > what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
> > > just to backup and restore?
> >
> > At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/
>
> fine - a mess
>
> a sane application would just have *one* config file or if that is for
> whatever reason not enough *one folder* containing all its settings
>
> "~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/" is a joke

I was erring on the side of caution, most likely all that is required is the 
single 
~/.config/katerc

but it also depends on your defintion of "kate config".  Does that include 
the kate kpart plugin that can be used in other applications?

Remember, ~/.local/share is for application *data*, does that count as 
configuration to you?

-- Rex

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 02:15 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > you can follow the specs without create a mess
>
> OK, how exactly?  I'm genuinely curious how we can have bot  The only
> concrete suggestion you made so far didn't follow the specification.
> > > > what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
> > > > just to backup and restore?
> > >
> > > At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/
> >
> > fine - a mess
> >
> > a sane application would just have *one* config file or if that is for
> > whatever reason not enough *one folder* containing all its settings
> >
> > "~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/" is a joke
>
> I was erring on the side of caution, most likely all that is required is the
> single
> ~/.config/katerc
>
> but it also depends on your defintion of "kate config".  Does that include
> the kate kpart plugin that can be used in other applications?
>
> Remember, ~/.local/share is for application *data*, does that count as
> configuration to you?

well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that 
questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data

the desired result is: let a kde application appear identically on a 
different user account or after a restore including anything from 
tab-width, show line numbers, default charset up to toolabr settings and 
positions

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that
> questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data

How is this any different than the kde4 case?

Remember, kde4 also separated config and data too.

-- rex

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 04:28 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that
> > questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data
>
> How is this any different than the kde4 case?
> Remember, kde4 also separated config and data too

* missing settings migration at all
* as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
* old configs are not migrated nor removed
* the whole userhome became a mess

NO it is no solution start with a fresh userhome because there are other 
imporant things to (and they mostly use their own subfolder with a clear 
name) and since a large part of the stuff ist still not KDE5 *there is 
no way* to get out of the mess

[harry@srv-rhsoft:~]$ locate /home/harry | grep kate | wc -l
47

at least a large part was in a subfolder

/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/default.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/fsbookmarks.xml
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/filetree
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katecloseexceptplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katekonsole
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/project
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions/Standardsitzung.katesession

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 20.12.2015 um 04:28 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> > Reindl Harald wrote:
> > > well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that
> > > questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data
> >
> > How is this any different than the kde4 case?
> > Remember, kde4 also separated config and data too
> missing settings migration at all
> as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
> old configs are not migrated nor removed
> the whole userhome became a mess

OK, can we stay on one topic at a time please?  It's hard to carry on a 
conversation if you keep changing the goalposts.

-- Rex

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> missing settings migration at all
> old configs are not migrated nor removed

I'll concede lack of migration in general.

I'd argue removing old configs would be bad though, so -1 on that 
suggestion.
> as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app

* Most users don't care. 
* Users that *do* care, can easily find out via about->app and/or about-
> about kde
> the whole userhome became a mess

* Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
* *became* a mess?  It's no messier than kde4 was

-- Rex

[Felix Miata]

Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 09:17 (UTC-0600):
> Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.

Only in theory, not the way done with KF5. If the XDG_CONFIG_HOME spec
actually permits ordinary files rather than directories its root, then its
broken.
> *became* a mess?  It's no messier than kde4 was

Sure it is, because KDE4 confined its files to directory branches not
containing files belonging to other apps.

[Reindl Harald]

Am 20.12.2015 um 16:17 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
> > missing settings migration at all
> > old configs are not migrated nor removed
>
> I'll concede lack of migration in general.

which leaded that after upgrade to F22 i stared to a more or less 
default KDE with all customizations gone, at that point not working 
systray, all quickstarters where gone, menu-entries for the most used 
applications did no longer work because missing "ksystraycmd" and the 
first thing i faced where crashes and error messages like a star wars movie
> I'd argue removing old configs would be bad though, so -1 on that
> suggestion.

after a succesful migration they have to go away or at least get 
collected in a own folder where it is clear that this is old stuff
> > as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
> Most users don't care

that users don't care if they have KDE3/KDE4/KDE5

the ones who care are nearly unable to cleanup their userhome
> Users that *do* care, can easily find out via about->app and/or about-
> > about kde

in theory

darw me a clear picture "dolphin", "konqueror (as file manager)" and 
"folder-view" what is using what (besides missing translations for 
folderview which *seems* to be KDE5 because it don't care about my 
service-menus and settings from konqueror)
> > the whole userhome became a mess
> Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
> *became* a mess?  It's no messier than kde4 was

*nothing* is clearer when applications are throwing multiple singel 
files around instead sit in a folder named like the application

and since thats all more or less KDE point me to the part of xdg specs 
which forbid "/kde5/application-name/"-structures

a *clear* layout would have been

~/.local/share/kde5/appname/
~/.config/kde5/appname/

which makes it easy replicate or backup/restore settings as well as get 
rid of old files after you made sure "appname2 was migrated to KF5

[Rex Dieter]

Reindl Harald wrote:
> > Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
> > *became* a mess?  It's no messier than kde4 was
>
> *nothing* is clearer when applications are throwing multiple singel
> files around instead sit in a folder named like the application
>
> and since thats all more or less KDE point me to the part of xdg specs
> which forbid "/kde5/application-name/"-structures
>
> a *clear* layout would have been
>
> ~/.local/share/kde5/appname/
> ~/.config/kde5/appname/

Maybe, but 
* no one else does it that way
* what's done is done, migrating/changing *again* would lead to even more 
churn, for dubious results

-- Rex

[Felix Miata]

Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > a *clear* layout would have been

...
> > ~/.config/kde5/...
> Maybe, but
> no one else does it that way

Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
SMPlayer, MPV and others?

[Rex Dieter]

Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > a *clear* layout would have been
>
> ...
> > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > Maybe, but
> > no one else does it that way
>
> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> SMPlayer, MPV and others?

There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and 
upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/

Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.

I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't see 
it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.

-- Rex

[Felix Miata]

Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-21 10:02 (UTC-0600):
> Felix Miata wrote:
> > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > > a *clear* layout would have been
> >
> > ...
> > > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > > Maybe, but
> > > no one else does it that way
> > Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> > SMPlayer, MPV and others?
> There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and 
> upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/

Should there be? Does it matter?
> Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.

Gtk has been around to get set in its ways since the beginning of time, long
before the latest XDG spec you profess to be so great. That it allows, if
indeed it actually does allow, what IF5 has done, means XDG is broken.
> I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't see 
> it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.

Could be it's past time to get your glasses checked. One disadvantage is
glaring. Since KF5, ~/.config is a mess, definitely worse than keeping config
files in ~/.kde.

What advantage(s) is/are there?

[Dariusz J. Garbowski]

On 21/12/15 04:02 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
> > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > > a *clear* layout would have been
> >
> > ...
> > > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > > Maybe, but
> > > no one else does it that way
> >
> > Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> > SMPlayer, MPV and others?
>
> There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
>
> Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.

Well, gtk is not a desktop environment... but this is what I see on my machine:

$ ll .config/lxqt/
total 40
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor   28 Nov 13 22:11 desktop.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 2851 Nov 14 10:14 globalkeyshortcuts.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor  175 Nov 14 10:59 lxqt.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor   94 Nov 13 22:11 lxqt-powermanagement.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor   48 Nov 14 10:24 lxqt-runner.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor   28 Nov 13 22:11 notifications.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 2281 Nov 14 10:55 panel.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor   28 Nov 13 22:11 power.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor  163 Nov 14 10:58 session.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor   28 Nov 13 22:23 windowmanagers.conf

$ ll .config/openbox/
total 28
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 25661 Nov 14 10:54 rc.xml

...and many apps as well. Just a point of data for discussion, not an opinion.

[Rex Dieter]

Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
> On 21/12/15 04:02 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> > > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > > > a *clear* layout would have been
> > >
> > > ...
> > > > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > > > Maybe, but
> > > > no one else does it that way
> > >
> > > Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> > > SMPlayer, MPV and others?
> >
> > There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> > upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
> >
> > Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.
>
> Well, gtk is not a desktop environment... but this is what I see on my
> machine:

and in the context of this thread, neither is kwin or konsole or kate a 
desktop environment either.

-- Rex

[Robin Laing]

On 21/12/15 09:02, Rex Dieter wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
> > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > > a *clear* layout would have been
> >
> > ...
> > > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > > Maybe, but
> > > no one else does it that way
> >
> > Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> > SMPlayer, MPV and others?
>
> There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
>
> Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.
>
> I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't see
> it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
>
> -- Rex
> _______________________________________________
> kde mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

Just trashed my ~/.config directory and started again due to the issues 
with KDE.  It did fix the problems, it seems but the ~/.config directory 
is a mess.

44 files for kde configurations from what I quickly see.  It would be 
much nicer to have the kde related files in a single directory.  There 
is a kde.org directory as well with one file.  A sign of the future?

There is a gtk-2.0 directory, gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files as well.

The gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files were created by KDE according to the 
headers within the files.

Robin

[Eric Griffith]

If I remember right the GTK files are so GTK apps use the KDE / Qt theme.
So that makes sense, yeah.
On Dec 31, 2015 15:56, "Robin Laing"  wrote:
> On 21/12/15 09:02, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> >
> > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > a *clear* layout would have been
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Maybe, but
> > > > no one else does it that way
> > >
> > > Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> > > SMPlayer, MPV and others?
> >
> > There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> > upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
> >
> > Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.
> >
> > I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't
> > see
> > it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
> >
> > -- Rex
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]
>
> Just trashed my ~/.config directory and started again due to the issues
> with KDE.  It did fix the problems, it seems but the ~/.config directory is
> a mess.
>
> 44 files for kde configurations from what I quickly see.  It would be much
> nicer to have the kde related files in a single directory.  There is a
> kde.org directory as well with one file.  A sign of the future?
>
> There is a gtk-2.0 directory, gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files as well.
>
> The gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files were created by KDE according to the headers
> within the files.
>
> Robin
>
> kde mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

[Robin Laing]

On 31/12/15 13:58, Eric Griffith wrote:
> If I remember right the GTK files are so GTK apps use the KDE / Qt theme.
> So that makes sense, yeah.
> On Dec 31, 2015 15:56, "Robin Laing"  wrote:
> > On 21/12/15 09:02, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > > Felix Miata wrote:
> > >
> > > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> > > > a *clear* layout would have been
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ...
> > > > > ~/.config/kde5/...
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe, but
> > > > > no one else does it that way
> > > >
> > > > Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> > > > SMPlayer, MPV and others?
> > >
> > > There's a difference between application, e.g.  ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> > > upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
> > >
> > > Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/  for all gtk apps.
> > >
> > > I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't
> > > see
> > > it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
> > >
> > > -- Rex
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kde mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]
> >
> > Just trashed my ~/.config directory and started again due to the issues
> > with KDE.  It did fix the problems, it seems but the ~/.config directory is
> > a mess.
> >
> > 44 files for kde configurations from what I quickly see.  It would be much
> > nicer to have the kde related files in a single directory.  There is a
> > kde.org directory as well with one file.  A sign of the future?
> >
> > There is a gtk-2.0 directory, gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files as well.
> >
> > The gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files were created by KDE according to the headers
> > within the files.
> >
> > Robin

Having just upgraded two computers from KDE4 to KDE5, the arrangement of 
the config files is a nightmare.

It would be nice if KDE could consolidate the config files into the 
kde.org directory.

Robin

[Sudhir Khanger]

On Saturday 02 Jan 2016 1:08:27 PM Robin Laing wrote:
> Having just upgraded two computers from KDE4 to KDE5, the arrangement of 
> the config files is a nightmare.
>
> It would be nice if KDE could consolidate the config files into the 
> kde.org directory.

I wonder why the upstream didn't choose $HOME/.config/plasma for config files 
instead of using the base directory.

As far as clearing an app's config/data Android's approach is much superior. 
Options like 'Clear Data' and 'Clear Cache' in either System Settings or 
Discover to reset apps is much more user friendly then hunting for random 
config files. Deleting config files can create more unintended problems like 
ksnapshot's shortcut was permanently lost in my case when I nuked 
kglobalshortcut file.

[Eli Wapniarski]

On Sunday 20 December 2015 02:02:39 Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 20.12.2015 um 01:58 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> > Reindl Harald wrote:
> > > Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> > > > Felix Miata wrote:
> > > > > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > > > > > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > config: ~/.config
> > > > >
> > > > > Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in
> > > > > ~/.config/
> > > > > than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> > > > > selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> > > > > .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> > > > > were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> > > > > ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
> > > > > clutter and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
> > > > > apps?
> > > >
> > > > Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
> > > > XDG standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
> > > > XDG_DATA_HOME on
> > > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
> > > >
> > > > NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs
> > > > if you prefer something other than their default locations
> > >
> > > but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
> > > of the configuration
> >
> > You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
>
> i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations
>
> what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
> just to backup and restore?
>
> [root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ locate /home/harry/ | grep kate
> /home/harry/.config/katepartrc
> /home/harry/.config/katerc
> /home/harry/.config/kateschemarc
> /home/harry/.config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
> /home/harry/.config/katevirc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/default.katesession
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/fsbookmarks.xml
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/kateui.rc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/filetree
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/findinfiles
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katecloseexceptplugin
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katefiletemplates
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katekonsole
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katequickdocumentswitcher
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/project
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions/Standardsitzung.katesession
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins/katefiletemplates
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins/findinfiles
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart/katepartui.rc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
> /home/harry/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartindentjscriptrc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartpluginsrc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartscriptrc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katerc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katercJ13485.new
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/kateschemarc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katescriptingrc
> /home/harry/.kde/share/config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
> /home/harry/.local/share/kate
> /home/harry/.local/share/applications/kde4-kate.desktop
> /home/harry/.local/share/kate/anonymous.katesession
> /home/harry/.local/share/kate/sessions
> /home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate
> /home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart
> /home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate/kateui.rc
> /home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart/katepart5ui.rc

Wow... this is looking like the inisdes of the registry. With configuration 
paramaters all over the tree and not knowing what is configured where.

Extensible app is fantastic. Different config files for different parts OK, 
understandable. But why does anyone need to be an engineer to find them let 
alone figure out what each one is for?

[Eric Griffith]

On Dec 19, 2015 19:42, "Rex Dieter"  wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
> > Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> > > kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> > > config: ~/.config
> >
> > Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> > than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> > selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> > .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> > were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> > ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this

clutter
> > and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?
>
> Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using XDG
> standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_HOME on
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html

Note to self: submit addendum to spec stating "Applications should store
their configurations within a named subfolder within XDG_CONFIG_HOME."

~/.config/kde5 would have been perfect, following the same namely scheme as
everyone else. They are following the spec, but the spec should've gone one
step further

[Robin Laing]

On 2015-12-19 16:03, Rex Dieter wrote:
> Robin Laing wrote:
> > With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or been
> > changed.  I upgraded and I am having issues and I am convinced that it
> > is due to conflicts between configuration files.
>
> In general, kde4 applications use
>
> config: ~/.kde/share/config
> data:   ~/.kde/share/apps/
>
> and kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>
> config: ~/.config/
> data:   ~/.local/share/
>
> as you can see, old kde4 configurations in general ought not conflict, since
> those old locations are no longer used.
>
> -- Rex

Thank you.

I will start looking.

I agree that there shouldn't be any conflict but something affects my 
old account but not the new account.  This is a simple login and opening 
an application causes a kwin freeze until I kill drkonqi.  Yet in a 
newly created account, there is no freeze.

Maybe it is one of the KDE4 apps that is conflicting.  That is what I am 
trying to find for the bug report.

Even opening Firefox causes a freeze on my old account.

Bug hunting time.

Also, I didn't realize that this simple question would raise a heated 
discussion.  FWIW, I agree, KDE should be following standards as this 
makes it much easier to work with.