Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that add more bugs?
Eli
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Eli Wapniarski eli@orbsky.homelinux.org wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that add more bugs?
Eli
Hard to tell. I know of one fix that i'm expecting soon, that Rex has confirmed in in. But it's really more of a missing 3.5 feature than a fix.
I'm waiting on fixes for two other bugs.
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Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has
anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are
the KDE developers simply adding features that add more bugs?
Eli
I'm tracking quite a few bugs now. Some are closed as fixed, others are still there. It is a beta, and the major ones I've seen have been addressed (Gwenview just not working at all).
If the next beta doesn't address the major bugs, poking upstream (harder) may be necessary. As well as getting our hands dirty to fix them and push them upstream if they're still not addressed. Unfortunately, time always seems to be an issue, both on our side of things as well as upstream's.
One thing that is sort of a bittersweet victory in 4.3 is the automatic bug filing tool. Makes it easy to file, but creates lots of duplicates and people still submit incomplete backtraces. IMHO, it should only offer to submit if the backtrace has 3 hearts (maybe 2, I've not seen how useful a 2 heart one yet) and it doesn't already exist (searching for existing backtraces is in anaconda's reporter, maybe some work could be done to get this into KDE's as well?). Some of these bugs have a LONG list of duplicates being filed. At least 50 in the Gwenview crash one. This wastes time, but it is better than having no bugs filed.
- --Ben
On Saturday 30 May 2009 18:03:19 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that add more bugs?
Dozens of them. Anything particular in mind?
Anne
On Saturday 30 May 2009 23:21:36 Anne Wilson wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 18:03:19 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that add more bugs?
Dozens of them. Anything particular in mind?
Here:
These are the ones I've checked at first glance. Almost all of them Konqueror related, And none of the Konqueror bugs have been addressed. Leave a this for starters.
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157454 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172534 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106367 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157481 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157483 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167825
The last on complains about the lack of capability to stretch panels across 2 monitors. And this lack, in my desktop environment, represents a real useabiltiy bug. Serious enough for me to move to xfce which does this flawlessly.
As for konqueror vs firefox. Look firefox is not a kde app. Its mime types automatically link to gtk apps. Currently and more and more tentatively I use kde. I do not want to use gtk apps to read pdf or view multimedia or evolution and I do not want to have to manually reconfigure the gazillion or so mime types to open kde apps. If I want to use gtk apps I would use a gtk based windows manager. I use kde and a core application is very badly broken.
Look I need to say this; plasmoids are a very very nice idea. They look great and make the desktop look cool. The things is the desktop is next to useless. It gets covered up as soon as you use your computer to do anything at all. Unless of course the way you use your computer is to simply stare at your cool desktop. Heck I even have a package out there of a plasmoid. But being the end all and be all of windows management is a colossal mistake. Panels are the only app that makes the desktop constantly useful. Applets (ok plasmoids now) on panels when designed correctly places functionality, accessibility and information immediately available with a single click or quick glance regardless of what else is going on (except for full screen games :) ).
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client, im clients etc. The first app that gets opened makes the desktop disappear. If the apps don't work what good is the desktop other than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or apps to be a huge blonde moment (male or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If kde developers want to jerk around they're bored and get things half finished and then say brand new here it is. This whole process has been one the least professional processes I have been through in computing in a very long time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade they as usual do a superb job) then ignore their user base, well then there will be defection. Which by the way I am seriously considering and trust me when I say this is painful for me since I have been a loyal and passionate kde user for years as Rex can attest. But enough is enough. If I wanted to install super karamba I would have installed super karamba. Now KDE has pushed it down my throat in the form of plasmoids the very least they could do is have the thing work the way it should.
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this one, to be fair I will wait till 4.4 and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying yea!!! :) ) . KDE either works the way it should or I will have to go elsewhere.
Thanks for Listening :)
Eli
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Eli Wapniarski eli@orbsky.homelinux.org wrote:
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client, im clients etc. The first app that gets opened makes the desktop disappear. If the apps don't work what good is the desktop other than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or apps to be a huge blonde moment (male or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If kde developers want to jerk around they're bored and get things half finished and then say brand new here it is. This whole process has been one the least professional processes I have been through in computing in a very long time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade they as usual do a superb job) then ignore their user base, well then there will be defection. Which by the way I am seriously considering and trust me when I say this is painful for me since I have been a loyal and passionate kde user for years as Rex can attest. But enough is enough. If I wanted to install super karamba I would have installed super karamb a. Now KDE has pushed it down my throat in the form of plasmoids the very least they could do is have the thing work the way it should.
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this one, to be fair I will wait till 4.4 and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying yea!!! :) ) . KDE either works the way it should or I will have to go elsewhere.
Thanks for Listening :)
Eli
Re desktop apps
A significant number of KDE users don't seem to like Konqueror as is. Very very few web designers seem to be testing again KHTML. So I believe Konqueror + KHMTL is going to be harmful to KDE for quite some time.
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Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Eli Wapniarski eli@orbsky.homelinux.org
wrote:
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client,
im clients etc. The first app that
gets opened makes the desktop disappear. If the apps don't
work what good is the desktop other
than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or
apps to be a huge blonde moment (male
or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If
kde developers want to jerk around
they're bored and get things half finished and then say
brand new here it is. This whole process
has been one the least professional processes I have been
through in computing in a very long
time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade
they as usual do a superb job) then
ignore their user base, well then there will be defection.
Which by the way I am seriously
considering and trust me when I say this is painful for me
since I have been a loyal and
passionate kde user for years as Rex can attest. But enough
is enough. If I wanted to install
super karamba I would have installed super karamb a. Now KDE
has pushed it down my throat in the
form of plasmoids the very least they could do is have the
thing work the way it should.
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this
one, to be fair I will wait till
4.4 and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying
yea!!! :) ) . KDE either works the
way it should or I will have to go elsewhere.
Thanks for Listening :)
Eli
Re desktop apps
A significant number of KDE users don't seem to like
Konqueror as is.
Very very few web designers seem to be testing again KHTML.
So I
believe Konqueror + KHMTL is going to be harmful to KDE for
quite some
time.
Until another browser comes along that integrates as well into the KDE experience, it's default here. Also, it can't use more than 20MB of RAM on startup. I think I'll be waiting for quite a while ;) .
- --Ben
On Sun, 31 May 2009 02:59:44 -0400, Ben Boeckel MathStuf@gmail.com wrote:
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Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Eli Wapniarski eli@orbsky.homelinux.org
wrote:
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client,
im clients etc. The first app that
gets opened makes the desktop disappear. If the apps don't
work what good is the desktop other
than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or
apps to be a huge blonde moment (male
or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If
kde developers want to jerk around
they're bored and get things half finished and then say
brand new here it is. This whole process
has been one the least professional processes I have been
through in computing in a very long
time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade
they as usual do a superb job) then
ignore their user base, well then there will be defection.
Which by the way I am seriously
considering and trust me when I say this is painful for me
since I have been a loyal and
passionate kde user for years as Rex can attest. But enough
is enough. If I wanted to install
super karamba I would have installed super karamb a. Now KDE
has pushed it down my throat in the
form of plasmoids the very least they could do is have the
thing work the way it should.
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this
one, to be fair I will wait till
4.4 and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying
yea!!! :) ) . KDE either works the
way it should or I will have to go elsewhere.
Thanks for Listening :)
Eli
Re desktop apps
A significant number of KDE users don't seem to like
Konqueror as is.
Very very few web designers seem to be testing again KHTML.
So I
believe Konqueror + KHMTL is going to be harmful to KDE for
quite some
time.
Until another browser comes along that integrates as well into the KDE experience, it's default here. Also, it can't use more than 20MB of RAM on startup. I think I'll be waiting for quite a while ;) .
- --Ben
There is being worked on one; http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
I don't know if it will be a default browser but it makes an good alternative for Konqueror anyway. :)
I'm working on getting it properly packaged for Fedora. I got an older package wrapped up here: http://berkenpies.nl/rekonq/ (spec needs work for the new version, 0.1.0, and I have to make sure I got everything covered for review). The plan is to get it in to review before the end of next week.
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Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
There is being worked on one; http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
I don't know if it will be a default browser but it makes an
good
alternative for Konqueror anyway. :)
I'm working on getting it properly packaged for Fedora. I got
an older
package wrapped up here: http://berkenpies.nl/rekonq/ (spec
needs work for
the new version, 0.1.0, and I have to make sure I got
everything covered
for review). The plan is to get it in to review before the
end of next
week.
We'll see how it goes. I'm not holding by breath for these Konqueror replacements. The project making the KPart to get WebKit integration is the one that, IMO, is Doing It Right instead of making a new browser from scratch.
- --Ben
On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:48:14 -0400, Ben Boeckel MathStuf@gmail.com wrote:
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Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
There is being worked on one; http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
I don't know if it will be a default browser but it makes an
good
alternative for Konqueror anyway. :)
I'm working on getting it properly packaged for Fedora. I got
an older
package wrapped up here: http://berkenpies.nl/rekonq/ (spec
needs work for
the new version, 0.1.0, and I have to make sure I got
everything covered
for review). The plan is to get it in to review before the
end of next
week.
We'll see how it goes. I'm not holding by breath for these Konqueror replacements. The project making the KPart to get WebKit integration is the one that, IMO, is Doing It Right instead of making a new browser from scratch.
- --Ben
Alright, I managed to wrap things up (a bit later as expected though). But hey, better late then never they say. :)
I've packaged rekonq 0.1.0 for F11 and F12/rawhide. It should pretty much comply with the Package Guidelines and I'll submit it for review later. Although I'd appreciate it if someone could check it out if they are interested in a small, nifty, KDE4 browser.
Fedora 11: http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F11/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc11.i586.rpm
Rawhide: http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F12/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc12.i586.rpm
Everything (spec / sources / rpms): http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/
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On Monday 15 June 2009 15:09:10 Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:48:14 -0400, Ben Boeckel MathStuf@gmail.com wrote:
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Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
There is being worked on one; http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
I don't know if it will be a default browser but it makes an
good
alternative for Konqueror anyway. :)
I'm working on getting it properly packaged for Fedora. I got
an older
package wrapped up here: http://berkenpies.nl/rekonq/ (spec
needs work for
the new version, 0.1.0, and I have to make sure I got
everything covered
for review). The plan is to get it in to review before the
end of next
week.
We'll see how it goes. I'm not holding by breath for these Konqueror replacements. The project making the KPart to get WebKit integration is the one that, IMO, is Doing It Right instead of making a new browser from scratch.
- --Ben
Alright, I managed to wrap things up (a bit later as expected though). But hey, better late then never they say. :)
I've packaged rekonq 0.1.0 for F11 and F12/rawhide. It should pretty much comply with the Package Guidelines and I'll submit it for review later. Although I'd appreciate it if someone could check it out if they are interested in a small, nifty, KDE4 browser.
Fedora 11: http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F11/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc11.i586.rpm
Rawhide: http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F12/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc12.i586.rpm
Everything (spec / sources / rpms): http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/
Unfortunately I will not have the time to review. However, I have just rebuilt the package of f11 x86_64. For an alpha version it certainly is promising, but there are still an awful lot of rough spots.
The effort is very much appreciated
Eli
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:07:56 +0300, Eli Wapniarski eli@orbsky.homelinux.org wrote:
On Monday 15 June 2009 15:09:10 Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:48:14 -0400, Ben Boeckel MathStuf@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
There is being worked on one; http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
I don't know if it will be a default browser but it makes an
good
alternative for Konqueror anyway. :)
I'm working on getting it properly packaged for Fedora. I got
an older
package wrapped up here: http://berkenpies.nl/rekonq/ (spec
needs work for
the new version, 0.1.0, and I have to make sure I got
everything covered
for review). The plan is to get it in to review before the
end of next
week.
We'll see how it goes. I'm not holding by breath for these Konqueror replacements. The project making the KPart to get WebKit integration is the one that, IMO, is Doing It Right instead of making a new browser from scratch.
- --Ben
Alright, I managed to wrap things up (a bit later as expected though). But hey, better late then never they say. :)
I've packaged rekonq 0.1.0 for F11 and F12/rawhide. It should pretty
much
comply with the Package Guidelines and I'll submit it for review later. Although I'd appreciate it if someone could check it out if they are interested in a small, nifty, KDE4 browser.
Fedora 11:
http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F11/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc11.i586.rpm
Rawhide:
http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F12/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc12.i586.rpm
Everything (spec / sources / rpms): http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/
Unfortunately I will not have the time to review. However, I have just rebuilt the package of f11 x86_64. For an alpha version it certainly is promising, but there are still an awful lot of rough spots.
The effort is very much appreciated
Eli
Thanks for having a look at it. The fact that it looks promising drew my attention too. As far as I know some of the issues have been polished already and a new version might be released soon. 0.1.2 is in the current development GIT repository.
<shameless ad> The review request is now up at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506232 </shameless ad>
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 12:18:50 Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:07:56 +0300, Eli Wapniarski eli@orbsky.homelinux.org wrote:
On Monday 15 June 2009 15:09:10 Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:48:14 -0400, Ben Boeckel MathStuf@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
There is being worked on one; http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
I don't know if it will be a default browser but it makes an
good
alternative for Konqueror anyway. :)
I'm working on getting it properly packaged for Fedora. I got
an older
package wrapped up here: http://berkenpies.nl/rekonq/ (spec
needs work for
the new version, 0.1.0, and I have to make sure I got
everything covered
for review). The plan is to get it in to review before the
end of next
week.
We'll see how it goes. I'm not holding by breath for these Konqueror replacements. The project making the KPart to get WebKit integration is the one that, IMO, is Doing It Right instead of making a new browser from scratch.
- --Ben
Alright, I managed to wrap things up (a bit later as expected though). But hey, better late then never they say. :)
I've packaged rekonq 0.1.0 for F11 and F12/rawhide. It should pretty
much
comply with the Package Guidelines and I'll submit it for review later. Although I'd appreciate it if someone could check it out if they are interested in a small, nifty, KDE4 browser.
Fedora 11:
http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F11/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc11.i586.rpm
Rawhide:
http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/F12/rekonq-0.1.0-1.fc12.i586.rpm
Everything (spec / sources / rpms): http://kaboon.fedorapeople.org/rekonq/0.1.0/
Unfortunately I will not have the time to review. However, I have just rebuilt the package of f11 x86_64. For an alpha version it certainly is promising, but there are still an awful lot of rough spots.
The effort is very much appreciated
Eli
Thanks for having a look at it. The fact that it looks promising drew my attention too. As far as I know some of the issues have been polished already and a new version might be released soon. 0.1.2 is in the current development GIT repository.
<shameless ad> The review request is now up at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506232 </shameless ad>
Looking forward to seeing it.
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Eli Wapniarski wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 23:21:36 Anne Wilson wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 18:03:19 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has
anybody actually
seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding
features that add
more bugs?
Dozens of them. Anything particular in mind?
Here:
These are the ones I've checked at first glance. Almost all
of them Konqueror related, And none
of the Konqueror bugs have been addressed. Leave a this for
starters.
Seems fine to me in 4.3b1. Seems slow to load, but once done, I don't see any performance issues. The toolbar has a little delay before seeing the hand cursor, but clicking still works as expected despite the cursor not changing.
Something like this isn't going to please everybody in every situation. Personally, I find the issue in that background/font color are separate choices in CSS. They should be required together or not at all.
This is almost always the kicker for me going back to Oxygen colors after using Obsidian Coast for a while. Firefox has just as bad a time with it as Konqueror in my experience.
Cannot confirm in 4.3b1.
Flash-related, nothing we in Fedora can do.
Confirmed in 4.3b1 as well. By watching what happens in Firefox, it instead enforces the requested table size, loads the text then starts the scrolling. This causes text to be written on top of other text before the page is completely loaded. Konqueror uses the height of the marquee for the marquee, but for layout, there is no size specified. Personally, I think the site is relying on other browser bugs/quirks. Looking at the source and references, the height attribute isn't necessary (looking at wiki's list of attributes for it; hell, marquee isn't even standard), so Konqueror would just be playing puppet to other browsers. There is no standard dictating how those should be handled.
Not something I get to test/use all that often (read: maybe once or twice in a few years), but I can see why it's important.
The last on complains about the lack of capability to stretch
panels across 2 monitors. And this
lack, in my desktop environment, represents a real useabiltiy
bug. Serious enough for me to move
to xfce which does this flawlessly.
KDE Brainstorm may be a place for this.
As for konqueror vs firefox. Look firefox is not a kde app.
Its mime types automatically link to
gtk apps. Currently and more and more tentatively I use kde.
I do not want to use gtk apps to
read pdf or view multimedia or evolution and I do not want to
have to manually reconfigure the
gazillion or so mime types to open kde apps. If I want to use
gtk apps I would use a gtk based
windows manager. I use kde and a core application is very
badly broken. I understand; Firefox is a Windows app ported to Linux making it play its own game (I touched on this in my latest rant in my blog).
Look I need to say this; plasmoids are a very very nice idea.
They look great and make the
desktop look cool. The things is the desktop is next to
useless. It gets covered up as soon as
you use your computer to do anything at all. Unless of course
the way you use your computer is to
simply stare at your cool desktop. Heck I even have a package
out there of a plasmoid. But being
the end all and be all of windows management is a colossal
mistake. Panels are the only app that
makes the desktop constantly useful. Applets (ok plasmoids
now) on panels when designed correctly
places functionality, accessibility and information
immediately available with a single click or
quick glance regardless of what else is going on (except for
full screen games :) ). So don't place plasmoids on the desktop. My desktop is currently...just a wallpaper. I have too many windows open all the time to deal with moving them around. I have quite a few locked in position/size/desktop and the mask has no hole in it, so no position is always safe here. Ctrl-F12 is there to expose the plasmoids. I just tested and if you're dragging something, it isn't lost.
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client, im
clients etc. The first app that
gets opened makes the desktop disappear.
This was a major problem with the old desktop. It was almost always covered (at least here), so it was of limited use.
If the apps don't work what good is the desktop other than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or
apps to be a huge blonde moment (male
or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If
kde developers want to jerk around
they're bored and get things half finished and then say brand
new here it is. This whole process
has been one the least professional processes I have been
through in computing in a very long
time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade
they as usual do a superb job) then
ignore their user base, well then there will be defection.
Which by the way I am seriously
considering and trust me when I say this i s painful for me since I have been a loyal and passionate
kde user for years as Rex can attest.
But enough is enough. If I wanted to install super karamba I
would have installed super karamb
a. Now KDE has pushed it down my throat in the form of
plasmoids the very least they could do is
have the thing work the way it should.
You don't need to have plasmoids everywhere. I don't. Current list of active plasmoids:
Desktop: Panel: Task Manager System Tray Pager Device Notifier Weather Battery Monitor (laptop only) Digital Clock
Nothing that the old panel didn't have that is clutter. Having thing replaceable is great. Now people can get Windows 7-like taskbars without it being forced down everyone's throats (stasks isn't for me). New ways of doing things don't need reworking low-level code. I don't see what isn't working with them (the dual monitor thing I can see, but I couldn't get it to work with Kicker back in KDE3 days either).
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this
one, to be fair I will wait till 4.4
and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying yea!!!
:) ) . KDE either works the way it
should or I will have to go elsewhere.
Everyone has their limits and you can't please everyone all the time.
Thanks for Listening :)
I don't use tts. Reading was fun. :O)
Eli
- --Ben
On Sunday 31 May 2009 09:57:58 Ben Boeckel wrote:
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 23:21:36 Anne Wilson wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 18:03:19 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has
anybody actually
seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding
features that add
more bugs?
Dozens of them. Anything particular in mind?
Here:
These are the ones I've checked at first glance. Almost all
of them Konqueror related, And none
of the Konqueror bugs have been addressed. Leave a this for
starters.
Seems fine to me in 4.3b1. Seems slow to load, but once done, I don't see any performance issues. The toolbar has a little delay before seeing the hand cursor, but clicking still works as expected despite the cursor not changing.
I've had this problem there practically forever. And it still persists for me
Something like this isn't going to please everybody in every situation. Personally, I find the issue in that background/font color are separate choices in CSS. They should be required together or not at all.
This is almost always the kicker for me going back to Oxygen colors after using Obsidian Coast for a while. Firefox has just as bad a time with it as Konqueror in my experience.
The default CSS should contain default web black on white colors. Not the template used by the desktop manager. Best reason is that many email clients do not generate html headers at all. Its unlikely that they will anytime soon.
Cannot confirm in 4.3b1.
Flash-related, nothing we in Fedora can do.
Works very well in firefox. So no, it isn't just flash related, but how konqueror handles the scripts generated.
Confirmed in 4.3b1 as well. By watching what happens in Firefox, it instead enforces the requested table size, loads the text then starts the scrolling. This causes text to be written on top of other text before the page is completely loaded. Konqueror uses the height of the marquee for the marquee, but for layout, there is no size specified. Personally, I think the site is relying on other browser bugs/quirks. Looking at the source and references, the height attribute isn't necessary (looking at wiki's list of attributes for it; hell, marquee isn't even standard), so Konqueror would just be playing puppet to other browsers. There is no standard dictating how those should be handled.
Not something I get to test/use all that often (read: maybe once or twice in a few years), but I can see why it's important.
The last on complains about the lack of capability to stretch
panels across 2 monitors. And this
lack, in my desktop environment, represents a real useabiltiy
bug. Serious enough for me to move
to xfce which does this flawlessly.
KDE Brainstorm may be a place for this.
Its already there.
http://forum.kde.org/extend-panels-accross-multiple-screens-t-38969.html#pid...
End result won't fix. Becuase its too hard. (Professionalism at work).
As for konqueror vs firefox. Look firefox is not a kde app.
Its mime types automatically link to
gtk apps. Currently and more and more tentatively I use kde.
I do not want to use gtk apps to
read pdf or view multimedia or evolution and I do not want to
have to manually reconfigure the
gazillion or so mime types to open kde apps. If I want to use
gtk apps I would use a gtk based
windows manager. I use kde and a core application is very
badly broken. I understand; Firefox is a Windows app ported to Linux making it play its own game (I touched on this in my latest rant in my blog).
Look I need to say this; plasmoids are a very very nice idea.
They look great and make the
desktop look cool. The things is the desktop is next to
useless. It gets covered up as soon as
you use your computer to do anything at all. Unless of course
the way you use your computer is to
simply stare at your cool desktop. Heck I even have a package
out there of a plasmoid. But being
the end all and be all of windows management is a colossal
mistake. Panels are the only app that
makes the desktop constantly useful. Applets (ok plasmoids
now) on panels when designed correctly
places functionality, accessibility and information
immediately available with a single click or
quick glance regardless of what else is going on (except for
full screen games :) ). So don't place plasmoids on the desktop. My desktop is currently...just a wallpaper. I have too many windows open all the time to deal with moving them around. I have quite a few locked in position/size/desktop and the mask has no hole in it, so no position is always safe here. Ctrl-F12 is there to expose the plasmoids. I just tested and if you're dragging something, it isn't lost.
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client, im
clients etc. The first app that
gets opened makes the desktop disappear.
This was a major problem with the old desktop. It was almost always covered (at least here), so it was of limited use.
If the apps don't work what good is the desktop other than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or
apps to be a huge blonde moment (male
or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If
kde developers want to jerk around
they're bored and get things half finished and then say brand
new here it is. This whole process
has been one the least professional processes I have been
through in computing in a very long
time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade
they as usual do a superb job) then
ignore their user base, well then there will be defection.
Which by the way I am seriously
considering and trust me when I say this i s painful for me since I have been a loyal and passionate
kde user for years as Rex can attest.
But enough is enough. If I wanted to install super karamba I
would have installed super karamb
a. Now KDE has pushed it down my throat in the form of
plasmoids the very least they could do is
have the thing work the way it should.
You don't need to have plasmoids everywhere. I don't. Current list of active plasmoids:
Desktop: Panel: Task Manager System Tray Pager Device Notifier Weather Battery Monitor (laptop only) Digital Clock
The point here is that KDE has spent an awful lot of time hard wiring features into the desktop that are eye candy without any real functionality. And in and off itself adds bugs and I can't shut it off or remove it. Even if I don't use any extra plasmoids, the desktop itself is a plasmoid. And it doesn't work right either mind you the being able to drill down folders make it 3/4 done as opposed to 1/2 done.
Nothing that the old panel didn't have that is clutter. Having thing replaceable is great. Now people can get Windows 7-like taskbars without it being forced down everyone's throats (stasks isn't for me). New ways of doing things don't need reworking low-level code. I don't see what isn't working with them (the dual monitor thing I can see, but I couldn't get it to work with Kicker back in KDE3 days either).
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this
one, to be fair I will wait till 4.4
and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying yea!!!
:) ) . KDE either works the way it
should or I will have to go elsewhere.
Everyone has their limits and you can't please everyone all the time.
Correct.
Thanks for Listening :)
I don't use tts. Reading was fun. :O)
Eli
--Ben
fedora-kde mailing list fedora-kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Best reason is that many email clients do not generate html headers at all. Its unlikely that they will anytime soon.
HTML mail isn't even displayed by default (for security reasons) in KMail (you get the text representation if it exists, the source code otherwise, and you need to click to get the HTML). You need to get people to stop sending HTML mail.
Kevin Kofler
On Sunday 31 May 2009 16:58:15 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Best reason is that many email clients do not generate html headers at all. Its unlikely that they will anytime soon.
HTML mail isn't even displayed by default (for security reasons) in KMail (you get the text representation if it exists, the source code otherwise, and you need to click to get the HTML). You need to get people to stop sending HTML mail.
Kevin Kofler
Kevin
I can't. I don't have my fingures in peoples minds. Nor on their comptuers. Nor can I program every email client. Nor can I figure out why not everybody uses a Linux based solution.
Iii'mmm soooo confused !!! :) :) :D lol
Eli
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
I can't. I don't have my fingures in peoples minds. Nor on their comptuers. Nor can I program every email client. Nor can I figure out why not everybody uses a Linux based solution.
Send them a link to http://expita.com/nomime.html and tell them you'll delete any further mail they send you in HTML format without reading it.
Kevin Kofler
On Sunday 31 May 2009 20:20:18 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
I can't. I don't have my fingures in peoples minds. Nor on their comptuers. Nor can I program every email client. Nor can I figure out why not everybody uses a Linux based solution.
Send them a link to http://expita.com/nomime.html and tell them you'll delete any further mail they send you in HTML format without reading it.
Kevin Kofler
Like my 70 something year old Uncle in California on AOL. I don't think so.
Eli
On Sunday 31 May 2009 06:48:20 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 23:21:36 Anne Wilson wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009 18:03:19 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that add more bugs?
Dozens of them. Anything particular in mind?
Here:
These are the ones I've checked at first glance. Almost all of them Konqueror related, And none of the Konqueror bugs have been addressed. Leave a this for starters.
Not here - it's not the fastest site, but not slow enough to be a problem.
This is a wish, not a bug.
This refers to the same site as the first bug you mention. I see no problem here. It loads quickly enough, and moving to a sub-page was almost instantaneous.
I don't use x86_64 so I can't comment, except to say that on my 686 everything works as expected.
The first of the two panels you mention is currently reporting a problem, but the second panel is scrolling in a space approximately equal to the "Special Offer" panel. No problem here.
Comment 10 states that KDE4 works differently and suggests a solution for you.
The last on complains about the lack of capability to stretch panels across 2 monitors. And this lack, in my desktop environment, represents a real useabiltiy bug. Serious enough for me to move to xfce which does this flawlessly.
So did you every try the solution suggested? If so, why was it not suitable? You did not file any report to that effect.
As for konqueror vs firefox. Look firefox is not a kde app. Its mime types automatically link to gtk apps. Currently and more and more tentatively I use kde. I do not want to use gtk apps to read pdf or view multimedia or evolution and I do not want to have to manually reconfigure the gazillion or so mime types to open kde apps. If I want to use gtk apps I would use a gtk based windows manager. I use kde and a core application is very badly broken.
Not here, it isn't.
Look I need to say this; plasmoids are a very very nice idea. They look great and make the desktop look cool. The things is the desktop is next to useless. It gets covered up as soon as you use your computer to do anything at all. Unless of course the way you use your computer is to simply stare at your cool desktop. Heck I even have a package out there of a plasmoid. But being the end all and be all of windows management is a colossal mistake. Panels are the only app that makes the desktop constantly useful. Applets (ok plasmoids now) on panels when designed correctly places functionality, accessibility and information immediately available with a single click or quick glance regardless of what else is going on (except for full screen games :) ).
I can't understand what you are talking about. There is no need for any plasmoid to be any bigger than you choose. The ones I use take up a small proportion of my desktop, proportional, IMO, to the use I have for them.
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client, im clients etc. The first app that gets opened makes the desktop disappear. If the apps don't work what good is the desktop other than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or apps to be a huge blonde moment (male or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If kde developers want to jerk around they're bored and get things half finished and then say brand new here it is. This whole process has been one the least professional processes I have been through in computing in a very long time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade they as usual do a superb job) then ignore their user base, well then there will be defection. Which by the way I am seriously considering and trust me when I say this is painful for me since I have been a loyal and passionate kde user for years as Rex can attest. But enough is enough. If I wanted to install super karamba I would have installed super karamb a. Now KDE has pushed it down my throat in the form of plasmoids the very least they could do is have the thing work the way it should.
It is noticeable that the list of bugs you quote were all filed by you, and in most cases, in fact all but the last one, get little or no support from anyone else. Your comments here are rude. Developers have limited time and will always give their attention to the bug reports that seem to affect most people. I find your self-admitted tirade unreasonable.
4.3 is a personal milestone for me. After a tirade like this one, to be fair I will wait till 4.4 and leave without a whisper (I'm sure some are saying yea!!! :) ) . KDE either works the way it should or I will have to go elsewhere.
That is your choice.
Anne
On Sunday 31 May 2009 12:45:35 Anne Wilson wrote:
People use browsers, word processors, games, email client, im clients etc. The first app that gets opened makes the desktop disappear. If the apps don't work what good is the desktop other than to look pretty but dumb. I do not need my desktop or apps to be a huge blonde moment (male or female take your pick). I need to get the things done. If kde developers want to jerk around they're bored and get things half finished and then say brand new here it is. This whole process has been one the least professional processes I have been through in computing in a very long time. (Fedora / KDE people notwithstanding in this tirade they as usual do a superb job) then ignore their user base, well then there will be defection. Which by the way I am seriously considering and trust me when I say this is painful for me since I have been a loyal and passionate kde user for years as Rex can attest. But enough is enough. If I wanted to install super karamba I would have installed super karamb a. Now KDE has pushed it down my throat in the form of plasmoids the very least they could do is have the thing work the way it should.
It is noticeable that the list of bugs you quote were all filed by you, and in most cases, in fact all but the last one, get little or no support from anyone else. Your comments here are rude. Developers have limited time and will always give their attention to the bug reports that seem to affect most people. I find your self-admitted tirade unreasonable.
Excuse me Anne, however. They are not rude, they are legit criticism and fair.
Software released to the general public should not be a step backward. Eye Candy as pretty as it is in KDE4 but doesn't add anything to the computing environment other than look pretty and not do anything; absorbing developers attention to the exclusion of everything else is a waste of time and resources. Mine and the developers. If the developers are developing only for themselves tell us so. I do not need to be the victim of naval gazing developers with egos the size of planets. Those that release software to the general public with the purpose of being used should expect criticism when things are un-useable. Or its design makes things more difficult to use.
You are absolutely free not to attribute any relevance to my comments. I am absoutely free to consider KDE as being irrelevant (which I don't). My passion and admiration for KDE, for Linux and the Fedora team packaging KDE can not be questioned here. The fact that I take the time to monitor, assist when I have the time and use and criticize where warranted attests to that.
I never have nor will I ever simply accept things. I have never let things slide. If I can do something I will, if nothing more than to say that something is not right. At least I've said it. If ignored, well 2 can play at the game. I am not suggesting that anyone is ignoring me.
And if I point out problems with specific things that no one else uses, it doesn't mean that the problem does not affect a wider community as the web uses common elements that can be found throughout the Internet. Most of the pointing to specific instances indicates general problems. Scripting is the biggest of the issues when it comes to Konqueror and you see the problem time after time after time, Site after site after site. Forcing me to use Firefox, is an insistence, due to convenience, to use gtk apps. Sorry, I don't want to use gnome. I use KDE. I love KDE and want it to be the very best in its class bar none. I expect excellence from the KDE team because that is what I have seen in the past. Pushing that is not rude. Expecting it is what keeps me using KDE. Long live KDE.
Things need to work.
Eli
On Sunday 31 May 2009 14:33:10 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Scripting is the biggest of the issues when it comes to Konqueror and you see the problem time after time after time, Site after site after site.
Yes. As has been confirmed by several unrelated sources, Konqueror is more strictly using standards and does not provide non-standards-compliant workarounds.
Anne
On Sunday 31 May 2009 16:55:17 Anne Wilson wrote:
On Sunday 31 May 2009 14:33:10 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Scripting is the biggest of the issues when it comes to Konqueror and you see the problem time after time after time, Site after site after site.
Yes. As has been confirmed by several unrelated sources, Konqueror is more strictly using standards and does not provide non-standards-compliant workarounds.
In other words its too hard and we're lazy. Very professional.
Eli
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
In other words its too hard and we're lazy. Very professional.
Actually, Konqueror does try hard to support real-world sites even where it doesn't match the standard. (For example, KJS supports some IE-only code which Firefox always refused to support.) But the problem is, if you work around some broken site by breaking the standard, you may end up breaking some other site which does comply to the standard. So the site should be fixed instead!
Kevin Kofler
On Sunday 31 May 2009 20:22:52 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
In other words its too hard and we're lazy. Very professional.
Actually, Konqueror does try hard to support real-world sites even where it doesn't match the standard. (For example, KJS supports some IE-only code which Firefox always refused to support.) But the problem is, if you work around some broken site by breaking the standard, you may end up breaking some other site which does comply to the standard. So the site should be fixed instead!
I know that. There is a sarcastic streak in me. Sorry about not toning it down the way I should have
Please realize that everything that I type is done with the utmost respect and affection to all users.
Eli
Eli, In answer to your original question , there have been a bucket load of things fixed in 4.1b. Unfortunately they don't seem to be the things that are important for you. That isn't to say they aren't important. They are just not things that have been addressed by the limited developer resources that are currently available. The developers do their best to release quality code for their projects ( I think there are currently around 2-3 people in the konqueror team).
KDE isn't like a corporate entity, most of the developers are either hacking in their spare time or paid by a company to work on specific elements of KDE . KDE as a community doesn't assign people to projects and they can't , KDE is a community centered around a desktop that we are collectively trying to make better.
I think it's great that you have taken the time to file the bug reports .It's a great first step and I like that you are passionate about getting them fixed. It's only half the battle though. Actually fixing issues (ones that can / should be fixed ) is down to those who are willing and able to dive into the code. Currently those 2 - 3 people that are diving into the code are working very hard, as are the rest of the devs , translators, doc team etc..
Sometimes, you just need to have patience. If that means that you have to use KDE 3.5 for a while, or XFCE , or GNOME then thats fine. KDE is what it is and if it's not right for you at the moment it. I waited til 4.2.3 in order for it to be usable for me. It works for me on my laptop but on my desktop the Xorg drivers aren't quite there yet in order for me to use it. I can only suggest trying it out every few months to to see if it fits your needs better. Hopefully it will.
Andrew
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Panels are the only app that makes the desktop constantly useful. Applets (ok plasmoids now) on panels when designed correctly places functionality, accessibility and information immediately available with a single click or quick glance regardless of what else is going on
That's why most plasmoids can be placed on the panel. For those which don't, complain (file a bug), if they can't figure out a way to make the plasmoid directly useful on the panel, they need to make it a PopupApplet.
(except for full screen games :) ).
Those just ought to be fixed not to fullscreen by default. Windowed mode FTW!
Kevin Kofler
On Sat, 30 May 2009 17:24:52 -0430, "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 20:03 +0300, Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that
add
more bugs?
The Beta of what?
KDE 4.3 I'd guess :)
poc
fedora-kde mailing list fedora-kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
On Sunday 31 May 2009 01:00:39 Eelko Berkenpies wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2009 17:24:52 -0430, "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 20:03 +0300, Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Hi All
Just installed the Beta from unstable. Seriously... has anybody actually seen bug fixes? Or are the KDE developers simply adding features that
add
more bugs?
The Beta of what?
KDE 4.3 I'd guess :)
Yes
Eli
-
Andrew Mason -
Anne Wilson -
Arthur Pemberton -
Ben Boeckel -
Eelko Berkenpies -
Eli Wapniarski -
Kevin Kofler -
Patrick O'Callaghan