WYSYWIG for HTML5

[Peter G.]

Years ago, I used to build my web page with Quanta, which was included in 
kdedevelop, I think.

Is it or something similar still available? I only need support for html5, no 
legacy versions.

[Kevin Kofler]

Peter Gueckel wrote:
> Years ago, I used to build my web page with Quanta, which was included in
> kdedevelop, I think.
>
> Is it or something similar still available? I only need support for html5,
> no legacy versions.

I don't know what the current status of KDE 4 Quanta is, but last I checked, 
the new maintainer wasn't interested in VPL (Visual Page Layout, i.e. the 
WYSYWIG mode) at all, i.e. the plan is/was to ship Quanta with only the 
text-based mode and quick preview. The maintainer also said he was focusing 
on XML/XHTML only, hopefully HTML5 made him change his mind there…

However, we still ship KDE 3 kdewebdev including the KDE 3 Quanta in Fedora. 
It's a kdelibs app, but it still more or less works. Of course, the support 
for new HTML5 features is going to be basically nonexistent… :-(

You may want to look into BlueGriffon, which is not a KDE app (it's based on 
Firefox code and GTK+), but which should otherwise fill your requirements. 
Unfortunately, only version 1.0 got packaged as (unofficial) RPMs (by Remi 
Collet), for newer versions, there seem to be only upstream, 32-bit-only 
binary tarballs. So IMHO it should be packaged first of all. But that's not 
really on topic on THIS mailing list…

Kevin Kofler

[Kevin Kofler]

I wrote:
> I don't know what the current status of KDE 4 Quanta is, but last I
> checked, the new maintainer wasn't interested in VPL (Visual Page Layout,
> i.e. the WYSYWIG mode) at all, i.e. the plan is/was to ship Quanta with
> only the text-based mode and quick preview. The maintainer also said he
> was focusing on XML/XHTML only, hopefully HTML5 made him change his mind
> there…

PS: I checked the current status now. It looks like this is the latest 
status update:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=quanta&m=130763123429115&w=2

It looks like the PHP and CSS stuff is going forward nicely and might be 
shipped as plugins for KDevelop (Quanta 4 is going to be based on KDevelop 4 
technologies), but the HTML stuff (i.e. the most important part) needs a lot 
of work still. :-(

So your options are basically either KDE 3 Quanta (packaged in Fedora, but 
not designed for HTML5) or BlueGriffon (not packaged for Fedora, at least 
not the current version)…

Kevin Kofler

[Manuel Escudero]

2011/12/9 Kevin Kofler
> I wrote:
> > I don't know what the current status of KDE 4 Quanta is, but last I
> > checked, the new maintainer wasn't interested in VPL (Visual Page Layout,
> > i.e. the WYSYWIG mode) at all, i.e. the plan is/was to ship Quanta with
> > only the text-based mode and quick preview. The maintainer also said he
> > was focusing on XML/XHTML only, hopefully HTML5 made him change his mind
> > there…
>
> PS: I checked the current status now. It looks like this is the latest
> status update:
> http://lists.kde.org/?l=quanta&m=130763123429115&w=2
>
> It looks like the PHP and CSS stuff is going forward nicely and might be
> shipped as plugins for KDevelop (Quanta 4 is going to be based on KDevelop
> 4
> technologies), but the HTML stuff (i.e. the most important part) needs a
> lot
> of work still. :-(
>
> So your options are basically either KDE 3 Quanta (packaged in Fedora, but
> not designed for HTML5) or BlueGriffon (not packaged for Fedora, at least
> not the current version)…
>    Kevin Kofler
>
> kde mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde
> New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org

Bluegriffon RPM's for F16 (32Bit) are available at their website, you can
also
it in 64Bit fedora adding some extra libraries after you install, made a
post
of that here:

http://xenodesystems.blogspot.com/2011/12/instalar-bluegriffon-en-fedora-15-...

(Spanish)

Also it can be integrated with the KDE theme without any problems.

[Kevin Kofler]

Manuel Escudero wrote:
> Bluegriffon RPM's for F16 (32Bit) are available at their website

Sadly, there is no SRPM provided, which would be needed to build a native 
64-bit RPM. :-/ Not providing a specfile or SRPM is arguably a violation of 
the GPL. (The specfile is a build script, defined by the GPL to be part of 
the source code.)

We need to track down the specfile they're using so we can build native 64-
bit RPMs. I don't see why they aren't providing them in the first place. 
Having to litter a 64-bit installation with tons of 32-bit multilib crap 
sucks.

Looking at their download page, they also advertise proprietary for-purchase 
add-ons, which is not a nice thing… :-/
http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2009/10/16/open-core-shareware.html
Features being intentionally withhold from the Free Software version to 
force people to pay for restrictively-licensed non-Free addons is just evil, 
and can be a major obstacle to forming a real open community (because 
they'll reject any attempts at implementing the same features in the Free 
version to protect their business model). (If I had noticed this before, I 
wouldn't even have brought this software up as an option. I believe this is 
a really dangerous business model.)

Kevin Kofler

[Kevin Kofler]

I wrote:
> Sadly, there is no SRPM provided, which would be needed to build a native
> 64-bit RPM. :-/ Not providing a specfile or SRPM is arguably a violation
> of the GPL. (The specfile is a build script, defined by the GPL to be part
> of the source code.)

PS: This also means that that RPM is effectively non-Free Software and I 
cannot recommend using it.

I wasn't able to find their specfile or SRPM anywhere.

Kevin Kofler

[Manuel Escudero]

2011/12/9 Kevin Kofler
> I wrote:
> > Sadly, there is no SRPM provided, which would be needed to build a native
> > 64-bit RPM. :-/ Not providing a specfile or SRPM is arguably a violation
> > of the GPL. (The specfile is a build script, defined by the GPL to be
>
> part
> > of the source code.)
>
> PS: This also means that that RPM is effectively non-Free Software and I
> cannot recommend using it.
>
> I wasn't able to find their specfile or SRPM anywhere.
>    Kevin Kofler
>
> kde mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde
> New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org

There is an SRPM of BlueGriffon for Fedora 15 in Remi's Git repository,
Bluegriffon
is opensource, the thing is, (as someone said above) it requires a bunch of
patches
to run, that's why Remi (Who packaged it for F15) has not uploaded an RPM
for F16 yet...

[Kevin Kofler]

Manuel Escudero wrote:
> There is an SRPM of BlueGriffon for Fedora 15 in Remi's Git repository,
> Bluegriffon is opensource,

I know, but…
> the thing is, (as someone said above) it requires a bunch of patches
> to run, that's why Remi (Who packaged it for F15) has not uploaded an RPM
> for F16 yet...

… that's why the SRPM (or the specfile + the patches) corresponding to 
upstream's RPM are needed, otherwise that RPM is NOT Free Software.

Kevin Kofler

[Peter G.]

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> So your options are basically either KDE 3 Quanta (packaged in Fedora, but
> not designed for HTML5) or BlueGriffon (not packaged for Fedora, at least
> not the current version)…

OK, thanks for looking this up. I code my page completely by hand in kwrite 
these days. It's very, very basic and doesn't change much, just basically 
maintains a web presence. I can wait for Quanta 4 and I don't necessarily need 
VPL, so text-based will suffice.

Blue Griffon sounds _very_ impressive. The liscensing looks like it would be 
suitable for Fedora. I wonder if it will hit the fedora repos sometime?

[Kevin Kofler]

Peter Gueckel wrote:
> Blue Griffon sounds very impressive. The liscensing looks like it would be
> suitable for Fedora. I wonder if it will hit the fedora repos sometime?

The problem is that it relies on a bundled patched xulrunner.

Kevin Kofler

[Peter G.]

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Peter Gueckel wrote:
> > Blue Griffon sounds very impressive.
> The problem is that it relies on a bundled patched xulrunner.

I understand. Also, the addons, as you said, are for pay. My needs are extremely 
basic, so that would not likely ever affect me, but I understand what you mean.

Someone suggested maquetta, which is also open source and has a fine pedigree.

[Laurin]

I installed BlueGriffon a few weeks ago and this are the right commands to
install the recent version on Fedora 16 64 bit:

yum install cairo.i686 pango.fc16.i686 gtk2.fc16.i686 libXt.fc16.i686
oxygen-gtk.i686
yum localinstall
http://bluegriffon.org/freshmeat/1.3/bluegriffon-1.3-1.fc16.i686.rpm

Regards

[Peter G.]

Laurin wrote:
> I installed BlueGriffon a few weeks ago and this are the right commands to
> install the recent version on Fedora 16 64 bit:
>
> yum install cairo.i686 pango.fc16.i686 gtk2.fc16.i686 libXt.fc16.i686
> oxygen-gtk.i686
> yum localinstall
> http://bluegriffon.org/freshmeat/1.3/bluegriffon-1.3-1.fc16.i686.rpm

Thanks. That makes it easy. I agree with Kevin about polluting a 64-bit system, 
but sometimes... :-)

[Markus Slopianka]

Looking something up in Wikipedia helps:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Maqetta
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Aptana#Aptana_Studio

[Peter G.]

Markus Slopianka wrote:
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Maqetta
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Aptana#Aptana_Studio

Ach je! I had never even heard of these before. I think I will have a look at 
maquetta. Sounds like it could be excellent.

[Claude Jones]

On 12/09/2011 06:43 PM, Peter Gueckel wrote:
> Years ago, I used to build my web page with Quanta, which was included in
> kdedevelop, I think.
>
> Is it or something similar still available? I only need support for html5, no
> legacy versions.

I read through the thread as I too have occasional basic needs. No one 
mentioned SeaMonkey and its built in 'Composer'. Install SeaMonkey which 
is in the Fedora repos, and is part of the Mozilla.org software 
offerings. When you open the browser click on "Window" in the menu and 
select "Composer" or use Ctl+4 - haven't used it in a while so I can't 
speak to its current capabilities...

[Peter G.]

Claude Jones wrote:
> No one mentioned SeaMonkey and its built in 'Composer'.

That was the first program to come to my mind, since I used to use it years ago, 
when it was called Netscape. However, I do not believe it is html5 capable, 
unless that has changed. I do not want to write legacy code.

[Giuliano Colla]

Peter Gueckel ha scritto:
> Claude Jones wrote:
> > No one mentioned SeaMonkey and its built in 'Composer'.
>
> That was the first program to come to my mind, since I used to use it years ago, 
> when it was called Netscape. However, I do not believe it is html5 capable, 
> unless that has changed. I do not want to write legacy code.

Didn't test it myself, but Seamonkey is supporting HTML5 since version 
2.5. Usually Composer follows the pace of the browser, so it might be 
worth a try.

[Peter G.]

Giuliano Colla wrote:
> Seamonkey is supporting HTML5 since version 2.5.

Interesting. Thanks for the tip. And it's in the Fedora repos!