Request for review - new desktop groups

[Bill Nottingham]

As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've
been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices
in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply
selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that
environment.

Based on what's in the kickstart file for the KDE spin, here's what I
have for KDE:

KDE contains:
      kde-runtime
      kde-workspace
      kdelibs
      apper
      ark
      bluedevil
      cagibi
      cups-pk-helper
      gwenview
      kamera
      kamoso
      kcalc
      kcharselect
      kcm-gtk
      kcm_touchpad
      kcolorchooser
      kde-baseapps
      kde-plasma-networkmanagement
      kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openconnect
      kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openvpn
      kde-plasma-networkmanagement-pptp
      kde-plasma-networkmanagement-vpnc
      kde-printer-applet
      kde-settings-pulseaudio
      kdeaccessibility
      kdegames-minimal
      kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer
      kdegraphics-thumbnailers
      kdenetwork-kdnssd
      kdenetwork-kget
      kdeplasma-addons
      kdm
      kgpg
      kipi-plugins
      kolourpaint
      konsole
      kruler
      krusader
      ksnapshot
      ksshaskpass
      ksysguard
      ktorrent
      ktp-accounts-kcm
      ktp-approver
      ktp-auth-handler
      ktp-contact-applet
      ktp-contact-list
      ktp-filetransfer-handler
      ktp-kded-integration-module
      ktp-presence-applet
      ktp-send-file
      ktp-text-ui
      kwallet
      kwebkitpart
      kwrite
      okular
      oxygen-gtk
      phonon-backend-gstreamer
      plasma-scriptengine-python
      system-config-date
      system-config-printer-kde
      system-config-services
      xsettings-kde
      xterm

and has the following 'options' available:

kde-apps
      kdeartwork-screensavers
      kdegames
      digikam
      kdenetwork-krdc
      kdenetwork-krfb
      kdepim
      konversation
      twinkle
      krusader
kde-education
      blinken
      kalzium
      kanagram
      kgeography
      khangman
      kiten
      klettres
      ktouch
      kturtle
      kwordquiz
      parley
      step
      marble
      kstars
      kalgebra
      kbruch
      kig
      kmplot
      rocs
      cantor
kde-media
      amarok
      kmix
      dragon
      k3b
      kscd
kde-office
      scribus
      calligra-karbon
      calligra-krita
      calligra
      calligra-braindump
      calligra-flow
      calligra-kexi
      calligra-plan
      calligra-sheets
      calligra-stage
      calligra-words

I welcome any and all sanity-checking/fixing of this, and ideas for
additions/removals. You can open the current F18/F19 comps files and see the
data that makes this up - the 'kde-desktop' environment defines what
groups go into KDE, and which are shown as options, and the groups
referenced there define what packages make them up.

Ideally, once this is firmed up, we can even switch the kickstart in
spins-kickstart to refer to these groups, and retire the old ones. This
way selecting KDE in anaconda for DVD/network installations would provide
the same experience as the Live image where possible.

Thanks,
Bill

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:23:46 -0400
Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  As part of
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've
>  been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices
>  in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply
>  selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that
>  environment.
>  
>  Based on what's in the kickstart file for the KDE spin, here's what I
>  have for KDE:
>  
>  KDE contains:
>        kde-runtime
>        kde-workspace
>        kdelibs
>        apper
>        ark
>        bluedevil
>        cagibi
>        cups-pk-helper
>        gwenview
>        kamera
>        kamoso
>        kcalc
>        kcharselect
>        kcm-gtk
>        kcm_touchpad
>        kcolorchooser
>        kde-baseapps
>        kde-plasma-networkmanagement
>        kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openconnect
>        kde-plasma-networkmanagement-openvpn
>        kde-plasma-networkmanagement-pptp
>        kde-plasma-networkmanagement-vpnc
>        kde-printer-applet
>        kde-settings-pulseaudio
>        kdeaccessibility
>        kdegames-minimal
>        kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer
>        kdegraphics-thumbnailers
>        kdenetwork-kdnssd
>        kdenetwork-kget
>        kdeplasma-addons
>        kdm
>        kgpg
>        kipi-plugins
>        kolourpaint
>        konsole
>        kruler
>        krusader
>        ksnapshot
>        ksshaskpass
>        ksysguard
>        ktorrent
>        ktp-accounts-kcm
>        ktp-approver
>        ktp-auth-handler
>        ktp-contact-applet
>        ktp-contact-list
>        ktp-filetransfer-handler
>        ktp-kded-integration-module
>        ktp-presence-applet
>        ktp-send-file
>        ktp-text-ui
>        kwallet
>        kwebkitpart
>        kwrite
>        okular
>        oxygen-gtk
>        phonon-backend-gstreamer
>        plasma-scriptengine-python
>        system-config-date
>        system-config-printer-kde
>        system-config-services
>        xsettings-kde
>        xterm
>  
>  and has the following 'options' available:
>  
>  kde-apps
>        kdeartwork-screensavers
>        kdegames
>        digikam
>        kdenetwork-krdc
>        kdenetwork-krfb
>        kdepim
>        konversation
>        twinkle
>        krusader
>  kde-education
>        blinken
>        kalzium
>        kanagram
>        kgeography
>        khangman
>        kiten
>        klettres
>        ktouch
>        kturtle
>        kwordquiz
>        parley
>        step
>        marble
>        kstars
>        kalgebra
>        kbruch
>        kig
>        kmplot
>        rocs
>        cantor
>  kde-media
>        amarok
>        kmix
>        dragon
>        k3b
>        kscd
>  kde-office
>        scribus
>        calligra-karbon
>        calligra-krita
>        calligra
>        calligra-braindump
>        calligra-flow
>        calligra-kexi
>        calligra-plan
>        calligra-sheets
>        calligra-stage
>        calligra-words
>  
>  I welcome any and all sanity-checking/fixing of this, and ideas for
>  additions/removals. You can open the current F18/F19 comps files and see the
>  data that makes this up - the 'kde-desktop' environment defines what
>  groups go into KDE, and which are shown as options, and the groups
>  referenced there define what packages make them up.
>  
>  Ideally, once this is firmed up, we can even switch the kickstart in
>  spins-kickstart to refer to these groups, and retire the old ones. This
>  way selecting KDE in anaconda for DVD/network installations would provide
>  the same experience as the Live image where possible.
>  
>  Thanks,
>  Bill
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  kde mailing list
>  kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde
>  New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org 
it would be good to create a kde-minimal group ...
and then increase packages around this group
-- 
Fl@sh

[Kevin Kofler]

Bill Nottingham wrote:
>  As part of
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups,
>  I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation
>  choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the
>  user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options
>  for that environment. 
So my suggestion, based also on today's discussion on IRC (about matching 
the current KDE branding and release practices, which are moving more and 
more away from the old software compilation) is to have:

toplevel group: KDE Plasma Desktop
  contains basically only kde-workspace

options (subgroups): a kde-* version of each desktop app group, e.g.
kde-internet-apps etc.

Some of the options would be enabled by default, some not.

        Kevin Kofler

[Rex Dieter]

Kevin Kofler wrote:

>  Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > As part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups,
> > I've been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation
> > choices in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the
> > user simply selects which environment they want to run in, plus options
> > for that environment.
>  
>  So my suggestion, based also on today's discussion on IRC (about matching
>  the current KDE branding and release practices, which are moving more and
>  more away from the old software compilation) is to have:
>  
>  toplevel group: KDE Plasma Desktop
>    contains basically only kde-workspace
>  
>  options (subgroups): a kde-* version of each desktop app group, e.g.
>  kde-internet-apps etc.
>  
>  Some of the options would be enabled by default, some not. 
That's approximately what I had in mind too, I'll see if I can work up a 
concrete proposal (and patch) this weekend.

-- rex

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:23:46 -0400
Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  As part of
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ReworkPackageGroups, I've
>  been working on redoing some of the groups that make up installation choices
>  in anaconda. The idea is to offer a simpler interface, where the user simply
>  selects which environment they want to run in, plus options for that
>  environment. 
I can offer as a kde-mini package group, based on my
experience of building a kde-based spin (given dependency of
packages in F17):

# KDE base (or minimal)
kdm
## this packages for choice the dependence with less package size
sane-backends-libs
phonon-backend-gstreamer
##
kde-workspace
konsole
k3b
apper
bluedevil
plasma-scriptengine-python
system-config-firewall
system-config-firewall-base
kde-plasma-networkmanagement
kde-partitionmanager
kwrite

These packages (with their dependencies) provide the basic
and necessary features for the user. This group can be the
basis for the @kde-desktop.
-- 
Fl@sh

[Kevin Kofler]

Thanks for the list, some of that stuff should indeed be in the base KDE 
Plasma Desktop group (but not all!):

Fl@sh wrote:
>  # KDE base (or minimal)
>  kdm 
Yes.

>  ## this packages for choice the dependence with less package size
>  sane-backends-libs 
No, that's not minimal at all.

What drags this in as a dependency? And what's the larger dependency that 
gets dragged in otherwise? (I don't see what other dependency sane-backends-
libs could replace, sounds like a packaging bug.)

>  phonon-backend-gstreamer 
Should be dragged in by dependencies already, but I guess it helps to list 
this explicitly for the folks who enable RPM Fusion during installation, who 
might otherwise end up with phonon-backend-vlc instead, which I don't think 
should be the default.

>  ##
>  kde-workspace 
Yes, of course.

>  konsole 
Maybe, not sure. Though currently kde-workspace drags it in anyway so that 
"right-click, Konsole" always works.

>  k3b 
No. That really needs to be optional.

>  apper
>  bluedevil 
Yes, those are needed for workspace-system integration.

>  plasma-scriptengine-python 
No. Purely optional and should be automatically installed through Plasma 
PackageKit integration when needed (if not, file a bug).

>  system-config-firewall
>  system-config-firewall-base 
No. Those are admin tools, not KDE-related at all.

>  kde-plasma-networkmanagement 
Yes, system integration, same as for Apper and BlueDevil.

>  kde-partitionmanager 
No, should be in a kde-admin-tools subgroup/option.

>  kwrite 
Maybe. Like Konsole, this one can be argued to be part of the workspace.

        Kevin Kofler

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:36:46 +0200
Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at&gt; wrote:

>  Thanks for the list, some of that stuff should indeed be in the base
> KDE 
>  Plasma Desktop group (but not all!):
>  ... 
Sorry,
sane-backends-libs phonon-backend-gstreamer packages
not for pure Fedora (I`m do it for remix with rpmfusion
repo, which added some dependencies).

About konsole, kwrite, plasma-scriptengine-python packages --
Yes, reinsure myself.

About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base,
k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused
the idea of ​​installing the system on groups with the idea
of ​​installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.

Nevertheless, it would be good if there exists a @kde-base
(or -minimal, or -<same_name>) Group, because it gives more
flexibility when installing and using KDE in Fedora.
-- 
Fl@sh

[Kevin Kofler]

Fl@sh wrote:
>  Sorry,
>  sane-backends-libs phonon-backend-gstreamer packages
>  not for pure Fedora (I`m do it for remix with rpmfusion
>  repo, which added some dependencies). 
I still don't see how sane-backends-libs would be useful to list there even 
with RPM Fusion enabled.

>  About konsole, kwrite, plasma-scriptengine-python packages --
>  Yes, reinsure myself. 
And again, -1 to plasma-scriptengine-python, it has absolutely no business 
being in the minimal KDE workspace install set.

I could accept putting it in an optional "KDE Plasma Workspace Addons" 
subgroup along with kdeplasma-addons, but IMHO a script engine should not be 
listed in comps at all. It should be a dependency of whatever package 
requires it. If you install a plasmoid through "Add new widget…" (GHNS), 
starting from Fedora 17, you now get automatically prompted to install the 
script engine if it isn't installed yet. See:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Plasma_PackageKit_Integration
So there is no need whatsoever to install the script engine by default.

>  About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base,
>  k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused
>  the idea of ​​installing the system on groups with the idea
>  of ​​installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages. 
So I disagree about k3b and kde-partitionmanager being part of the necessary 
minimum. K3b is useless on a machine with no CD/DVD burner (e.g. a netbook 
or a tablet). kde-partitionmanager is entirely useless for most users. That 
kind of packages belongs into "options" (subgroups). It may or may not make 
sense to enable those options by default.

As for system-config-firewall, that's not a KDE package at all and so IMHO 
entirely off topic here.

>  Nevertheless, it would be good if there exists a @kde-base
>  (or -minimal, or -<same_name>) Group, because it gives more
>  flexibility when installing and using KDE in Fedora. 
See the original post in this thread for how Anaconda will present groups in 
Fedora 18!

        Kevin Kofler

[Sonic]

On 08/18/2012 10:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base,
> > k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused
> > the idea of ​​installing the system on groups with the idea
> > of ​​installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.
>  So I disagree about k3b and kde-partitionmanager being part of the necessary
>  minimum. K3b is useless on a machine with no CD/DVD burner (e.g. a netbook
>  or a tablet). kde-partitionmanager is entirely useless for most users. That
>  kind of packages belongs into "options" (subgroups). It may or may not make
>  sense to enable those options by default. 
I have to disagree on K3B. Writing a CD/DVD is a basic function and 
should be supported out of the box. It was a welcome addition when users 
could burn CDs on Windows without requiring any additional software. 
We're not aiming to include only those packages that are applicable on 
all possible hardware platforms, are we? In that case, things like 
bluetooth support should be left out since most desktops don't have 
them. I mean, why the unfair advantage for netbooks?

regards,

Syam

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:11:06 +0530
Sonic <get.sonic(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 08/18/2012 10:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>  >
>  >> About system-config-firewall, system-config-firewall-base,
>  >> k3b, kde-partitionmanager packages -- Sorry, maybe I confused
>  >> the idea of ​​installing the system on groups with the idea
>  >> of ​​installing the necessary (usually) a minimum packages.
>  > So I disagree about k3b and kde-partitionmanager being part of the necessary
>  > minimum. K3b is useless on a machine with no CD/DVD burner (e.g. a netbook
>  > or a tablet). kde-partitionmanager is entirely useless for most users. That
>  > kind of packages belongs into "options" (subgroups). It may or may not
> make
>  > sense to enable those options by default.
>  
>  I have to disagree on K3B. Writing a CD/DVD is a basic function and 
>  should be supported out of the box. It was a welcome addition when users 
>  could burn CDs on Windows without requiring any additional software. 
>  We're not aiming to include only those packages that are applicable on 
>  all possible hardware platforms, are we? In that case, things like 
>  bluetooth support should be left out since most desktops don't have 
>  them. I mean, why the unfair advantage for netbooks?
>  
>  regards,
>  
>  Syam 
Maybe it`s need to create specific group --
@kde-disk-utilities with CD/DVD burn, kde-partitionmanager
and other specific packages?

-- 
Fl@sh