2:17 p.m.
Hi,
I need to be sure. In Fedora 22 with plasma 5 , is not possible start
up kde-plasma 4 ? or use plasmoids for plasma 4 ?
I'm looking for smb4k.spec [1], I have done a
sub-package kde-plasma-smb4k , but is not useful on Fedora 22 , isn't
it ?
Another question to build packages for plasma 5 , we need BuildRequires:
kdelibs5-devel or what ?
[1] http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/smb4k.git/tree/smb4k.spec
Thanks,
--
Sérgio M. B.
9:49 p.m.
On Friday 03 July 2015 20:17:14 Sérgio Basto wrote:
I need to be sure. In Fedora 22 with plasma 5 , is not possible
start
up kde-plasma 4 ? or use plasmoids for plasma 4 ?
Both are not possible.
Another question to build packages for plasma 5 , we need
BuildRequires:
kdelibs5-devel or what ?
No, various kf5-*
See for example
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/plasma-pk-updates.git/tree/plasma-pk-u...
10:43 a.m.
On Sáb, 2015-07-04 at 04:49 +0200, Markus Slopianka wrote:
On Friday 03 July 2015 20:17:14 Sérgio Basto wrote:
> I need to be sure. In Fedora 22 with plasma 5 , is not possible start
> up kde-plasma 4 ? or use plasmoids for plasma 4 ?
Both are not possible.
> Another question to build packages for plasma 5 , we need BuildRequires:
> kdelibs5-devel or what ?
No, various kf5-*
See for example
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/plasma-pk-updates.git/tree/plasma-pk-u...
Thanks for the reply , this thing of star all over again, I don't like
it, I will stay in Fedora 21 for a while, I use kde desktop on my daily
work ...
--
Sérgio M. B.
11:36 a.m.
On Saturday 04 July 2015 16:43:21 Sérgio Basto wrote:
Thanks for the reply , this thing of star all over again, I don't
like
it, I will stay in Fedora 21 for a while, I use kde desktop on my daily
work ...
Allow me to disagree. That star really shines. :-)
The move to frameworks 5 is a very useful move that allows for kde libraries to be more
easily used (inside and outside kde).
FWIW I also use kde in my daily work.
--
José Abílio
5:12 p.m.
Am 04.07.2015 um 18:36 schrieb José Matos:
On Saturday 04 July 2015 16:43:21 Sérgio Basto wrote:
> Thanks for the reply , this thing of star all over again, I don't like
> it, I will stay in Fedora 21 for a while, I use kde desktop on my daily
> work ...
Allow me to disagree. That star really shines. :-)
The move to frameworks 5 is a very useful move that allows for kde libraries to be more
easily used (inside and outside kde).
who the fuck cares when your whole settings and desktop is gone once
again while a *smart* improvement/replacement woul dbe completly
invisble for long years users until they decide to chang something
FWIW I also use kde in my daily work
fine when you don't do much with your computers and so all the
regressions don't have that bad impact - after the wistch form KDE3 to
KDE4 i have enough for a lifetime from "we change anything on your
computer because we just can"
5:17 p.m.
On Sunday 05 July 2015 00:12:57 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 04.07.2015 um 18:36 schrieb José Matos:
> On Saturday 04 July 2015 16:43:21 Sérgio Basto wrote:
>> Thanks for the reply , this thing of star all over again, I don't like
>> it, I will stay in Fedora 21 for a while, I use kde desktop on my daily
>> work ...
>
> Allow me to disagree. That star really shines. :-)
>
> The move to frameworks 5 is a very useful move that allows for kde
> libraries to be more easily used (inside and outside kde).
who the fuck cares when your whole settings and desktop is gone once
again while a *smart* improvement/replacement woul dbe completly
invisble for long years users until they decide to chang something
> FWIW I also use kde in my daily work
fine when you don't do much with your computers and so all the
regressions don't have that bad impact - after the wistch form KDE3 to
KDE4 i have enough for a lifetime from "we change anything on your
computer because we just can"
Hear!! Hear!!
--
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6:59 p.m.
On Dom, 2015-07-05 at 00:12 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 04.07.2015 um 18:36 schrieb José Matos:
> On Saturday 04 July 2015 16:43:21 Sérgio Basto wrote:
>> Thanks for the reply , this thing of star all over again, I don't like
>> it, I will stay in Fedora 21 for a while, I use kde desktop on my daily
>> work ...
>
> Allow me to disagree. That star really shines. :-)
>
> The move to frameworks 5 is a very useful move that allows for kde libraries to be
more easily used (inside and outside kde).
who the fuck cares when your whole settings and desktop is gone once
again while a *smart* improvement/replacement woul dbe completly
invisble for long years users until they decide to chang something
> FWIW I also use kde in my daily work
fine when you don't do much with your computers and so all the
regressions don't have that bad impact - after the wistch form KDE3 to
KDE4 i have enough for a lifetime from "we change anything on your
computer because we just can"
Reindl Harald, what is the point ? this is "kde in Fedora" Mailing
list , you can fetch all kde4 sources and build it for F22 etc and
aren't so much settings it is "only" plasmoids that aren't compatible .
Best regards,
--
Sérgio M. B.
7:01 p.m.
Am 05.07.2015 um 01:59 schrieb Sérgio Basto:
On Dom, 2015-07-05 at 00:12 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 04.07.2015 um 18:36 schrieb José Matos:
>> On Saturday 04 July 2015 16:43:21 Sérgio Basto wrote:
>>> Thanks for the reply , this thing of star all over again, I don't like
>>> it, I will stay in Fedora 21 for a while, I use kde desktop on my daily
>>> work ...
>>
>> Allow me to disagree. That star really shines. :-)
>>
>> The move to frameworks 5 is a very useful move that allows for kde libraries to
be more easily used (inside and outside kde).
>
> who the fuck cares when your whole settings and desktop is gone once
> again while a *smart* improvement/replacement woul dbe completly
> invisble for long years users until they decide to chang something
>
>> FWIW I also use kde in my daily work
>
> fine when you don't do much with your computers and so all the
> regressions don't have that bad impact - after the wistch form KDE3 to
> KDE4 i have enough for a lifetime from "we change anything on your
> computer because we just can"
Reindl Harald, what is the point ? this is "kde in Fedora" Mailing
list , you can fetch all kde4 sources and build it for F22 etc and
aren't so much settings it is "only" plasmoids that aren't compatible
the point is that F22 should have stayed on KDE4 - period
7:18 p.m.
Am 05.07.2015 um 02:06 schrieb Markus Slopianka:
On Sunday 05 July 2015 02:01:24 Reindl Harald wrote:
> the point is that F22 should have stayed on KDE4 - period
Unless you posess the ability to travel through time, your comments are
totally useless.
F21 is still supported if you prefer Plasma 4
for how long - 4/5 months? *laughable*
KDE upstream should have learned from the KDE4 fuckup which took *years*
to get useable again and not break user setups again and again while
wonder for decades why the majority of users out there donät siwtch to a
Linux desktop
a good upgrade is completly *invisible* for existing users independet
how large are the changes on lower levels - that said from a developer
who satisfies his users by *not* change their expirience permenently
7:49 p.m.
On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl(a)thelounge.net>
wrote:
Unless you posess the ability to travel through time, your comments
are
> totally useless.
> F21 is still supported if you prefer Plasma 4
>
for how long - 4/5 months? *laughable*
KDE upstream should have learned from the KDE4 fuckup which took *years*
to get useable again and not break user setups again and again while wonder
for decades why the majority of users out there donät siwtch to a Linux
desktop
a good upgrade is completly *invisible* for existing users independet how
large are the changes on lower levels - that said from a developer who
satisfies his users by *not* change their expirience permenently
Well, you have an excellent point... but anytime you upgrade something,
someone is going to be unhappy. Could they have done better, probably...
I think some of the issues
come from the fact that they simply didn't have large numbers of people
testing the code. Now problems which were previously unknown are being
discovered. Some (like the plasmashell lockup) still haven't been
resolved. Hopefully, that will be done soon. In the meantime, I'm trying
to be patient and do my part by testing and filling out bug reports.
Part of Fedora's mission is to drive innovation and stay as close to
upstream as possible; meaning you get the latest and greatest. Usually,
things go relatively smooth, but the nature of the beast is other times,
not so much - which is why the Fedora 21 will be supported until 1 month
after the release of F23 - and you're correct we're probably talking about
6 months max. That being the case, maybe Fedora isn't the best fit to be
used in a mission critical production environment. I have friends that
love and use Fedora, but at work they
recommend and use CentOS just for that reason. It's fun being able to
experience the latest and the greatest... but there is an inherent risk for
doing that.
12:08 a.m.
On Saturday 04 July 2015 17:49:36 Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Reindl Harald
<h.reindl(a)thelounge.net>
wrote:
> Unless you posess the ability to travel through time, your comments are
>
>> totally useless.
>> F21 is still supported if you prefer Plasma 4
>
> for how long - 4/5 months? *laughable*
>
> KDE upstream should have learned from the KDE4 fuckup which took *years*
> to get useable again and not break user setups again and again while
> wonder
> for decades why the majority of users out there donät siwtch to a Linux
> desktop
>
> a good upgrade is completly *invisible* for existing users independet how
> large are the changes on lower levels - that said from a developer who
> satisfies his users by *not* change their expirience permenently
Well, you have an excellent point... but anytime you upgrade something,
someone is going to be unhappy. Could they have done better, probably...
I think some of the issues
come from the fact that they simply didn't have large numbers of people
testing the code. Now problems which were previously unknown are being
discovered. Some (like the plasmashell lockup) still haven't been
resolved. Hopefully, that will be done soon. In the meantime, I'm trying
to be patient and do my part by testing and filling out bug reports.
Part of the problem here is not that there was nobody to test the code. The
problem is that code that the average user is expecting to test is not there.
The developers were even clear to tell us that the code was not there. Other
things are obvious like no port of KDEPIM to the new framework so no Akonadi
system settings, etc. This kinda thing has nothing to do with testing or bug
reports. I would be happy to provide bug reports if KDE 5 had "bugs" that I
could discover but I'm not using it because well for me currently it is
generally not useable.
Eli
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12:43 a.m.
On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Eli Wapniarski <eli(a)orbsky.homelinux.org>
wrote:
This kinda thing has nothing to do with testing or bug
reports. I would be happy to provide bug reports if KDE 5 had "bugs" that I
could discover but I'm not using it because well for me currently it is
generally not useable.
Well, it kind of does. There has been an increase of people using KF5
since it went live in Fedora, which means an uptick in reports.
Here is a bug report for something which was intended, planned behavior:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
and most of the comments didn't start until the Fedora Beta testing
period. Upstream doesn't always appreciate the impact
of their decisions, and it's up to people to let them know.
1:29 a.m.
On Saturday 04 July 2015 22:43:46 Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Eli Wapniarski
<eli(a)orbsky.homelinux.org>
wrote:
> This kinda thing has nothing to do with testing or bug
> reports. I would be happy to provide bug reports if KDE 5 had "bugs" that
> I
> could discover but I'm not using it because well for me currently it is
> generally not useable.
Well, it kind of does. There has been an increase of people using KF5
since it went live in Fedora, which means an uptick in reports.
Here is a bug report for something which was intended, planned behavior:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
and most of the comments didn't start until the Fedora Beta testing
period. Upstream doesn't always appreciate the impact
of their decisions, and it's up to people to let them know.
Problem with that is that upstream generally does not care what people think.
We have been down this road before and KDE's response has been rude (and
that's putting it mildly). So people have learned that bugs for features
intended is fine. User input has generally been unappreciated (at least in the
past).
Eli
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12:04 a.m.
On Sunday 05 July 2015 02:18:13 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 05.07.2015 um 02:06 schrieb Markus Slopianka:
> On Sunday 05 July 2015 02:01:24 Reindl Harald wrote:
>> the point is that F22 should have stayed on KDE4 - period
>
> Unless you posess the ability to travel through time, your comments are
> totally useless.
> F21 is still supported if you prefer Plasma 4
for how long - 4/5 months? *laughable*
KDE upstream should have learned from the KDE4 fuckup which took *years*
to get useable again and not break user setups again and again while
wonder for decades why the majority of users out there donät siwtch to a
Linux desktop
a good upgrade is completly *invisible* for existing users independet
how large are the changes on lower levels - that said from a developer
who satisfies his users by *not* change their expirience permenently
Absolutely agree with everything said here. KDE3 to 4 was a fiasco. It would
seem that despite everything upstream told us as it being easier for the user
KDE 4 - 5 is worse maybe not for the developers who have an easier time not
including features like screensavers and system settings and... But for the
people who actually use their computer for work and play KDE 5 as it stands is
a disaster.
KDE 5 is a very well tested ALPHA. Why, because not all the features that are
expected to be there are in place.
I understand the mission of Fedora but, things need to be done in a sane way.
As I have suggested, though I know that this is a lot of work and it is only a
suggestion because I understand the nature of scarce resources, that Fedora
adopt a more sane release schedule. 6 months is too short given the complexity
of everything that is required; to provide a long term stable version. Say 2
years, Perhaps a proper collaboration between CentOS and Fedora would be in
order and a rapid fire version that showcases the newer stuff.
This kinda thing really does need to be avoided. When we go to KDE6 what is
gonna be the excuse then as to why features are not in place.
Thank you (sincerely) for listening.
Eli
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1:29 a.m.
Eli Wapniarski composed on 2015-07-05 08:04 (UTC+0300):
KDE3 to 4 was a fiasco. It would
seem that despite everything upstream told us as it being easier for the user
KDE upstream lives largely in a fantasy world for developers rather than one
of functional reality for users. Plans are more grandiose than available
resources can support for users needing reliability over the long run.
KDE 4 - 5 is worse maybe not for the developers who have an easier
time not
including features like screensavers and system settings and... But for the
people who actually use their computer for work and play KDE 5 as it stands is
a disaster.
Kubuntu 15.04 and now Fedora 22 are a travesty on KDE users who need to get
real work done rather than fighting with alphaware disguised as release worthy.
KDE 5 is a very well tested ALPHA. Why, because not all the features
that are
expected to be there are in place.
For those who need to get work done in "KDE", whatever that means any more,
there are options:
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/FedoraInstall (evolved KDE3 fork for Fedora
21, maybe already or soon in F22)
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_13.2/ (extra
KDE3 packages beyond those KDE3 in the main openSUSE latest "release" repos)
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_Factory/ (aka
Tumbleweed, openSUSE's "rolling release", currently on kernel 4.0.5 about
to
goto 4.1, also has retained KDE3 as an option in its main repos that can be
installed alongside Plasma5)
http://www.mageia.org/en/ (freshly released with 3.19.8 kernel and KDE4)
http://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=CentOS_7&p=x&f=2 (presumably, CentOS
has not yet and won't soon "upgrade" to v5)
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
9:06 a.m.
On 07/05/2015 01:29 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
For those who need to get work done in "KDE", whatever that
means any more,
there are options:
What it means is the current version, as everything else is subject to
bit rot. If you're going to jump ship, consider this:
http://mate-desktop.org/
Enable Compiz and you have a winner.
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
9:49 a.m.
On 07/05/15 22:06, Glenn Holmer wrote:
On 07/05/2015 01:29 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
> For those who need to get work done in "KDE", whatever that means any
more,
> there are options:
What it means is the current version, as everything else is subject to
bit rot. If you're going to jump ship, consider this:
http://mate-desktop.org/
Enable Compiz and you have a winner.
First of all, I fully understand where Eli and Reindl are coming from. This switch from
KDE4--->KDE5 is just as painful, if not more so, as the switch from KDE3--->KDE4.
One would have thought/hoped that a lesson was learned, but it hasn't.
I'm not about to jump ship, however. I have a few systems and will retain KDE4 on
some but will use KDE5 as much as possible and file BZ as needed. I must say the
stability of plasma-shell has improved for me in the past week. So, that is one bright
spot.
In closing. I don't recall her name, but I do remember a Fedora person warning of
scaring away new users with "rants" in mailing list (I'm not saying anyone
is ranting). So I can't but think we should be careful not to hijack a "newbie
question" to vent our frustrations with the current situation.
--
Sorta what I want to say when folks habitually complain about Fedora -
https://youtu.be/ZArl8fTfub4
11:05 a.m.
On 07/05/2015 09:49 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
I don't recall her name, but I do remember a Fedora
person warning of scaring away new users with "rants" in mailing list
(I'm not saying anyone is ranting). So I can't but think we should
be careful not to hijack a "newbie question" to vent our frustrations
with the current situation.
[shrug] Just sayin'. New users need to know what they'd be getting into,
and as things improve, those sorts of posts will of course evaporate.
Having said that, I just re-enabled "restore manually saved session"...
and it works for me now! Hallelujah! It's OK now, y'all can come back!
Now I will buy another article of KDE clothing... any suggestions on
where to look?
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
12:26 p.m.
On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 11:05 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
Having said that, I just re-enabled "restore manually saved
session"...
and it works for me now! Hallelujah! It's OK now, y'all can come
back!
Close but no cigar. KDE apps such as Dolphin and Konsole seem to work,
but Firefox starts with the "This is embarassing" pane. Chrome doesn't
start at all, and when started manually also needs a button press to
restore windows, which do not go to the correct desktops. Granted that
these may be bugs in the respective apps, but they weren't present
under KDE4. Maybe a problem with the way Plasma shuts down.
I'm on the mailing list for this bug (
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343875) and nothing has been
posted there for quite some time. aside from complaints from myself and
others.
poc
12:29 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallaghan(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
but Firefox starts with the "This is embarassing" pane.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1239231
3:44 p.m.
On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 10:29 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan <
pocallaghan(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> but Firefox starts with the "This is embarassing" pane.
OK, looks like an FF bug. That doesn't explain the Chrome behaviour
though.
poc
1:06 p.m.
On 07/05/2015 12:26 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 11:05 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
> Having said that, I just re-enabled "restore manually saved
> session"...
> and it works for me now! Hallelujah! It's OK now, y'all can come
> back!
Close but no cigar. KDE apps such as Dolphin and Konsole seem to work,
but Firefox starts with the "This is embarassing" pane.
about:config, search on "crash", double-click
"browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash". I think it doesn't end
gracefully when you log out. I remember having to do that in KDE4 as well.
That leaves Chrome... any others? I'm using it to restart gkrellm,
konsole, dolphin, thunderbird, and firefox, all of which come up correctly.
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
1:12 p.m.
Am 05.07.2015 um 20:06 schrieb Glenn Holmer:
On 07/05/2015 12:26 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 11:05 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
>> Having said that, I just re-enabled "restore manually saved
>> session"...
>> and it works for me now! Hallelujah! It's OK now, y'all can come
>> back!
>
> Close but no cigar. KDE apps such as Dolphin and Konsole seem to work,
> but Firefox starts with the "This is embarassing" pane.
about:config, search on "crash", double-click
"browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash". I think it doesn't end
gracefully when you log out. I remember having to do that in KDE4 as well.
That leaves Chrome... any others? I'm using it to restart gkrellm,
konsole, dolphin, thunderbird, and firefox, all of which come up correctly
that has *nothing* to do with KDE and/or session store, the FF39 package
just has a bug and that's it
3:46 p.m.
On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 13:06 -0500, Glenn Holmer wrote:
> Close but no cigar. KDE apps such as Dolphin and Konsole seem to
work,
> but Firefox starts with the "This is embarassing" pane.
about:config, search on "crash", double-click
"browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash". I think it doesn't end
gracefully when you log out. I remember having to do that in KDE4 as
well.
"...resume_from_crash" is set to True. Not sure why it considers a
SIGHUP to be a crash though.
poc
3217
days inactive
3219
days old
24 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Ed Greshko -
Eli Wapniarski -
Felix Miata -
Gerald B. Cox -
Glenn Holmer -
José Abílio Matos -
Markus Slopianka -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Reindl Harald -
Sérgio Basto