Comments on draft trademark guidelines regarding non-software merchandise produced by the Fedora Project

[inode0]

Hi Pam and everyone,

I'd like to give some feedback and will try my hardest to not be
negative about it.

Here is the section I'm considering and how it might affect our current work.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pchestek/TMGuidelinesDraft#Non-softwar...

One general observation is that not all non-software promotional
merchandise is designed or arranged by ambassadors. Most of the time
this work is done by ambassadors, but not always. So, if possible, I'd
like to describe these sections a bit more generally to not exclude
people who do make contributions this way who are not in the
ambassador group when they do it.

Maybe something like "Fedora Event Promotional Merchandise" rather
than "Ambassador giveaways" and having more emphasis throughout on
"contributors" rather than on "ambassadors" although we do want to be
clear that we are talking about merchandise designed and made by
members of the Fedora Project primarily or exclusively for the purpose
of distribution at Fedora events.

I think a trac instance to enter some basic information about what is
produced is fine, actually a good thing generally. Will it be visible
to the public? Can it include some additional fields that we might
desire for our own tracking and expense recording as long as it
includes the fields you need as well? I do have a few comments about
the listed fields.

Contact info for responsible ambassador <- Fine aside from preferring
contributor to ambassador.

Main event(s) where materials will be given away <- This one could be
problematic so I'd like to understand what you really need at a
minimum for this field. We have, for example, produced 20,000
temporary tattoos in a single run and distributed those worldwide.
> From there they found their way (and still do) to Fedora events all
over the world over a number of years. So this list would be long and
would need updated a lot and really the original reporter (responsible
ambassador/contributor) probably isn't in a position to follow up on
where the item was used. We very seldom produce merchandise for a
specific event. Almost always it is produced in large quantities,
distributed to various geographic regions, and then finds its way on
to the events where it is needed.

Design of non-software promotional item(s) <- What does this mean? A
copy of the artwork? A proof from the vendor? A general description?

Information on vendor producing materials <- This one is easy if a URL
or basic contact info is enough.

Description of materials being used (e.g. type of tshirt, type of
coffee cup, etc) <- I'm not really sure what you want here. Just a
description of the product being made?

Amount of materials to be produced at this time in this design for
this event or events <- This is fine but the "for this event or
events" concerns me because as I said before we don't usually have a
specific list of events in mind that we are producing merchandise for
beyond any Fedora event that comes up where the item is appropriate
until we run out of it.

"If the design is simply an unmodified Fedora logo, word-mark, or
previously approved design, with nothing else, the merchandise is
appropriate, and the material type/quality is acceptable, the request
will be granted, and the Fedora Ambassador will be given a one-time
permission to produce the specified non-software promotional goods in
the amount requested."

Ok, this sounds like for this subset of cases the approval is
automatic? Or do we need something in writing from someone telling us
we can proceed? While I don't much like having to ask twice to reorder
more of an item that is popular when we run out of it, I can see some
benefit to tracking each order but would prefer to not need to wait
for permission if possible and if some fields don't really apply to
reorders noting them would ease the paperwork burden some.

"Any other request must have Board approval, and may require that the
Ambassador produce a two item proof batch of the proposed non-software
promotional goods. Please note that designs must be in compliance with
the Fedora Logo Usage Guidelines, and all requests must be made at
least one month before expected production of the non-software
promotional goods."

This part worries me some. Does it mean that each and every new item
that the project wants to produce has a bigger burden, possibly a lot
bigger burden? My radar tells me this will result in far fewer new
items getting produced which I think is undesirable. The delay this
introduces into the process is really unhelpful. I'm not sure all our
vendors would even give us binding price quotes that would allow us to
approve funding before sending the request to the Board for approval
of the trademark use. Worse, volunteers doing this will lose their
enthusiasm by this process becoming a multi-month long ordeal just to
make a new t-shirt.

I'm not clear on whether the one month delay applies to items that
will be automatically approved. If it does I really would like to
shorten that for items in that case as no one is going to want to work
on ordering some pens if that work needs to be stretched out that
long.

I do hope that most of things we produce now would fall into the
earlier category since we very often use the unmodified Fedora logo or
word-mark on items. Would it be possible to look over common Fedora
merchandise (buttons, pens, stickers, t-shirts, etc.) and tell us
which would fall into the former case and which would fall into this
latter case requiring Board approval and time delays? I'm guessing
things like t-shirts would fall into the latter more than most other
items.

And I really hope you find something in the above helpful.

Thanks,
John

[Tom Callaway]

On 02/23/2012 04:28 PM, inode0 wrote:
>  And I really hope you find something in the above helpful. 
John,

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Robyn, Mo, and I are going
to discuss this issue in depth with Pam next week and we hope to be able
to rework this aspect of the proposed TM guidelines to address many of
the concerns raised.

~tom

==
Fedora Project

[Pam Chestek]

On 2/23/2012 5:15 PM, Tom Callaway wrote:
>  On 02/23/2012 04:28 PM, inode0 wrote:
> > And I really hope you find something in the above helpful.
>  John,
>
>  Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Robyn, Mo, and I are going
>  to discuss this issue in depth with Pam next week and we hope to be able
>  to rework this aspect of the proposed TM guidelines to address many of
>  the concerns raised.
>
>  ~tom 
+1.  Really, thanks for taking the time.

Pam

[inode0]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Tom Callaway <tcallawa(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 02/23/2012 04:28 PM, inode0 wrote:
> > And I really hope you find something in the above helpful.
>
>  John,
>
>  Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Robyn, Mo, and I are going
>  to discuss this issue in depth with Pam next week and we hope to be able
>  to rework this aspect of the proposed TM guidelines to address many of
>  the concerns raised. 
Thinking a little more about the implications and point of the changes
rather than the actual changes themselves I can offer a best effort at
the following if that will help.

As I recall from memory today the ambassadors in NA began producing a
variety of merchandise beginning in 2008 and continuing to the present
time. There probably were earlier occurrences of ambassador produced
merchandise (in particular I recall earlier t-shirts being produced)
but I don't know what process was used or how that was done prior to
FAmNA coming into existence.

In most cases I am pretty sure we could recover a lot of this
information for everything that has been produced since 2008 that was
funded through FAmNA or CommArch for FAmNA. We should have receipts
that will show when they were produced and what company produced them
and the date of first production. In at least a couple of cases I am
quite sure I remember the specific event they were first distributed
at as well. In most cases those involved in producing the items are
still involved in the project and with their help we might be able to
document a lot of this information for merchandise used during the
2008-present time period. I still have have pristine physical examples
of many small items if those are useful in some way as well.

If this is something you would like us to attempt to do please let us
know as the sooner we try the more likely we are to succeed.

John