Some braindumping

[Jeremy Katz]

I spent a little bit of time a few months ago looking at Kadischi and
sent Darko a bit of feedback (also based on some mail from him on what
he saw the next steps as being).  So, I figure it's time that I take
that information and dump it for the wider audience now.

Most of the suggestions are from the standpoint of trying to minimize
the delta needed for creating a live CD and using existing
infrastructure as much as possible (even in cases where that requires
extending the infrastructure for things to work more cleanly).  In the
longer term, they're the sorts of things that make it so that live CDs
can be more prevalent in the Fedora space and require less special case
work to maintain.

* The initrds currently being generated by Kadischi are from a one off
script rather than utilizing mkinitrd.  This means that you have to
generate the initrd by hand afterwards instead of having the kernel post
script do it for you.  It also means that changes have to be tracked in
the Kadischi version of the script.  With the mkinitrd currently in
rawhide, there is the ability to override commands from nash.  Also,
with the support for handling multiple initramfs's, a secondary
initramfs can be created that just has the overriden commands.  For
ensuring that modules get included in the initrd, there is some support
for overriding things that are detected via /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd --
we probably want to make it so that anaconda ensures
that /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd is generated correctly so the first time an
initrd is created, it's "right"
* The ro root initscripts changes need to be integrated.  But I think
Bill is going to be actively working on this ;-)
* There's been an ongoing concern that including support for every
language Core supports on the live CD leads to a lot of space usage and
wanting to strip down the content of /usr/share/locale.  Instead of just
nuking them in a post script, having a way to get anaconda to set %
_install_langs isn't unreasonable, as long as it's not really being
exposed in the UI of anaconda
* What to do with firstboot?  Do we want to show it at all, only do a
subset of the config options?
* How well does the X autoconfig work currently?  I seem to remember it
was working okay, so this might not be a huge concern

That's a start based on my hazy memory at this point.  And I'm willing
to help people with any of them, but I definitely don't have time to
drive them forward at this point.

Jeremy

[Rahul Sundaram]

Jeremy Katz wrote:

> I spent a little bit of time a few months ago looking at Kadischi and
> sent Darko a bit of feedback (also based on some mail from him on what
> he saw the next steps as being).  So, I figure it's time that I take
> that information and dump it for the wider audience now.
>
> Most of the suggestions are from the standpoint of trying to minimize
> the delta needed for creating a live CD and using existing
> infrastructure as much as possible (even in cases where that requires
> extending the infrastructure for things to work more cleanly).  In the
> longer term, they're the sorts of things that make it so that live CDs
> can be more prevalent in the Fedora space and require less special case
> work to maintain.
>
> * The initrds currently being generated by Kadischi are from a one off
> script rather than utilizing mkinitrd.  This means that you have to
> generate the initrd by hand afterwards instead of having the kernel post
> script do it for you.  It also means that changes have to be tracked in
> the Kadischi version of the script.  With the mkinitrd currently in
> rawhide, there is the ability to override commands from nash.  Also,
> with the support for handling multiple initramfs's, a secondary
> initramfs can be created that just has the overriden commands.  For
> ensuring that modules get included in the initrd, there is some support
> for overriding things that are detected via /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd --
> we probably want to make it so that anaconda ensures
> that /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd is generated correctly so the first time an
> initrd is created, it's "right"
> * The ro root initscripts changes need to be integrated.  But I think
> Bill is going to be actively working on this ;-)
>   
>  
Is this part of Stateless Linux?

> * There's been an ongoing concern that including support for
> every
> language Core supports on the live CD leads to a lot of space usage and
> wanting to strip down the content of /usr/share/locale.  Instead of just
> nuking them in a post script, having a way to get anaconda to set %
> _install_langs isn't unreasonable, as long as it's not really being
> exposed in the UI of anaconda
> * What to do with firstboot?  Do we want to show it at all, only do a
> subset of the config options?
>   
>  
Get rid of it and assume sane default and Fedora as a default user?

> * How well does the X autoconfig work currently?  I seem to remember
> it
> was working okay, so this might not be a huge concern
>   
>  
Seems good. Low resolution in general but that might be safer.

-- 
Rahul 

Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers

[Bill Nottingham]

Rahul Sundaram (sundaram(a)redhat.com) said: 
>  >* The ro root initscripts changes need to be integrated.  But I
> think
>  >Bill is going to be actively working on this ;-)
>
>  Is this part of Stateless Linux? 
Initscripts stuff? Yes.

Bill

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

All,

Looks like we're getting some critical mass here again.  The list has been 
quite active, I know a couple of Red Hat engineers have approached me 
personally with their interest in contributing, and we've got lots and 
lots of community interest here.

What we don't yet have:
  * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project,
    which would be incredibly useful to lots and lots of people;
  * A set of priorities about what to fix, and how;
  * A roadmap for moving forward to FC5 and beyond.

Seems like maybe we've got enough people to start focusing on these issues 
again.  Do folks agree?  Is it worth getting together on IRC for an hour 
sometime to see if we can resuscitate this project and give it some 
badly-needed direction again?

--g

---------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
---------------------------------------------------------------

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

vote +1
but i can only join in meetings in 2 weeks :(
(exams)


--
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:

> All,
>
> Looks like we're getting some critical mass here again.  The list has been 
> quite active, I know a couple of Red Hat engineers have approached me 
> personally with their interest in contributing, and we've got lots and 
> lots of community interest here.
>
> What we don't yet have:
>   * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project,
>   
>  
A few variants like desktop and server be nice.

>     which would be incredibly useful to lots and lots of people;
>   * A set of priorities about what to fix, and how;
>   * A roadmap for moving forward to FC5 and beyond.
>   
>  
I would like a hack to dump a live cd to hard disk even its not 
supported by the project. Performance was very poor when I tried a 
prerelease of BlagBlagBlag that used kadischi.

> Seems like maybe we've got enough people to start focusing on
> these issues 
> again.  Do folks agree?  Is it worth getting together on IRC for an hour 
> sometime to see if we can resuscitate this project and give it some 
> badly-needed direction again?
>
> --g
>   
>  
Do it now in #fedora-livecd ?

-- 
Rahul 

Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[tony]

Le vendredi 20 janvier 2006 à 02:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :

>  >Looks like we're getting some critical mass here again.  The
> list has been 
>  >quite active, I know a couple of Red Hat engineers have approached me 
>  >personally with their interest in contributing, and we've got lots and 
>  >lots of community interest here.
>  >
>  >What we don't yet have:
>  >  * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project, 
Meaning? I did a minimal FC4 LiveCD second time around that is easy as
long as you stick to Fedora packages. What is hard is moving away from
the Fedora kernels. Everything else just works as long as you RTFM

>  A few variants like desktop and server be nice. 
I have a live CD that has VDR and xine and make a great LivePVR but it
is probably illegal in half the world dominated by the patent office...

>  I would like a hack to dump a live cd to hard disk even its not 
>  supported by the project. Performance was very poor when I tried a 
>  prerelease of BlagBlagBlag that used kadischi. 
I could use that

>  Do it now in #fedora-livecd ? 
I'm off to bed it is 23:00 and I have a life (beautiful at that =;-D)

Tony
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[J. Hartline]

tony wrote:

> Meaning? I did a minimal FC4 LiveCD second time around that is easy
> as
> long as you stick to Fedora packages. What is hard is moving away from
> the Fedora kernels. Everything else just works as long as you RTFM
>   
>
> Tony
>   
>  
Any packages for Fedora will work if you use pkgorder and genhdlist, 
which are becoming obsolete by the new anaconda repodata and yum stuff.
You can't just "add" a package to your repo directory and have it 
install, you need to use pkgorder and genhdlist.

I've made plenty of CDs with different kernels, packages, programs, 
whatever.

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[tony]

Le jeudi 19 janvier 2006 à 17:25 -0500, J. Hartline a écrit :

>  Any packages for Fedora will work if you use pkgorder and genhdlist,
>
>  which are becoming obsolete by the new anaconda repodata and yum stuff.
>  You can't just "add" a package to your repo directory and have it 
>  install, you need to use pkgorder and genhdlist. 
I have taken that one step further and modified comps.xml

>  I've made plenty of CDs with different kernels, packages,
> programs, 
>  whatever. 
I have had success with different packages and different kernels as long
as they are FC kernels. Modified kernels run into the mkinitrd bug
mentioned earlier

Tony
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[J. Hartline]

tony wrote:

> I have had success with different packages and different kernels as
> long
> as they are FC kernels. Modified kernels run into the mkinitrd bug
> mentioned earlier
>
> Tony
>   
>  
I don't actually recall a mkinitrd bug discussed, I think what Jeremy 
was saying about the initrd, is that it is
done using a one-off script, e.g. it *may* in certain instances not work.

In any case, without any special configuration, I built a kernel today 
to see if I could replicate the problem, I could not.
Here is all I've done, installed kadischi (CVS or RPM), patched 
anaconda, edited /etc/kadischi/build.conf to point to /tmp.

Copied all Fedora/RPMS and Fedora/base files to /pub/Fedora/{RPMS,base} 
from the FC4 DVD.
mkdir /pub/backup && mv /pub/Fedora/RPMS/kernel* /pub/backup
mv /pub/kernel* /pub/Fedora/RPMS
genhdlist --productpath Fedora /pub
pkgorder /pub i386 Fedora > /pub/Fedora/pkgorder.txt
genhdlist --withnumbers --fileorder /pub/Fedora/pkgorder.txt --hdlist 
/pub/Fedora/base/hdlist --productpath Fedora /pub
kadischi --graphical /pub /tmp/custom00.iso

I sit and watch, the kernel gets installed and we'll mount it via 
loopback to make sure nothing is playing tricks on us..
[root@localhost boot]# pwd
/mnt/iso/boot
[root@localhost boot]# ls -l vmlinuz* && ls -l initrd*
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 1542110 Jan 20 21:19 vmlinuz-2.6.14-1.1656_FC4.root
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 1006224 Jan 20 21:19 
initrd-2.6.14-1.1656_FC4.root.img
[root@localhost boot]#

All that is left to do is burn it. I don't know if custom CDs or user 
compiled kernels will be supported on this list
if not, you are free to contact me outside of the list if you would like 
some suggestions.

I'd really like to see some sort of config menus pushed out by Fedora 
Core 5 landing date.
Simple things like, NFS, LDAP, Gateway/DHCP srever, Services, runlevel 
and Desktop Environment would be nice to have
for the end user to choose. Say, you install Gnome and KDE, or KDE and 
Fluxbox.

pkgorder LOOP

[tony]

Le vendredi 20 janvier 2006 à 21:42 -0600, J. Hartline a écrit :

>  genhdlist --productpath Fedora /pub
>  pkgorder /pub i386 Fedora > /pub/Fedora/pkgorder.txt
>  genhdlist --withnumbers --fileorder /pub/Fedora/pkgorder.txt --hdlist 
>  /pub/Fedora/base/hdlist --productpath Fedora /pub
>  kadischi --graphical /pub /tmp/custom00.iso 
Hi,

You instructions require:
 export PYTHONPATH=/usr/lib/anaconda

then I run

/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/genhdlist --productpath Fedora /media/FC4

OK that works then

/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/pkgorder /media/FC4 i386 Fedora \
>  /media/FC4/Fedora/pkgorder.txt 
Which gives:

--warning: LOOP:
warning: removing initscripts-8.11.1-1.i386 "Requires: /sbin/nash" from
tsort relations.
warning:     initscripts-8.11.1-1.i386
Requires: /sbin/nash
warning:     mkinitrd-4.2.15-1.i386                   PreReq: dev
warning:     udev-058-1.0.FC4.1.i386                  PreReq: hotplug
warning: removing hotplug-2004_09_23-7.i386 "Requires: initscripts >=
8.11-1" from tsort relations.
warning:     hotplug-2004_09_23-7.i386                Requires:
initscripts >= 8.11-1
warning: LOOP:
warning: removing gnome-python2-gnomevfs-2.10.0-1.i386 "Requires:
gnome-python2 = 2.10.0-1" from tsort relations.
warning:     gnome-python2-gnomevfs-2.10.0-1.i386     Requires:
gnome-python2 = 2.10.0-1
warning: removing gnome-python2-2.10.0-1.i386 "Requires:
gnome-python2-gnomevfs" from tsort relations.
warning:     gnome-python2-2.10.0-1.i386              Requires:
gnome-python2-gnomevfs

Looks like I borked my repo doing yum updates?

Cheers

Tony
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

pkgorder LOOP

[J. Hartline]

tony wrote:

> Which gives:
>
> --warning: LOOP:
> warning: removing initscripts-8.11.1-1.i386 "Requires: /sbin/nash" from
> tsort relations.
> warning:     initscripts-8.11.1-1.i386
> Requires: /sbin/nash
> warning:     mkinitrd-4.2.15-1.i386                   PreReq: dev
> warning:     udev-058-1.0.FC4.1.i386                  PreReq: hotplug
> warning: removing hotplug-2004_09_23-7.i386 "Requires: initscripts >=
> 8.11-1" from tsort relations.
> warning:     hotplug-2004_09_23-7.i386                Requires:
> initscripts >= 8.11-1
> warning: LOOP:
> warning: removing gnome-python2-gnomevfs-2.10.0-1.i386 "Requires:
> gnome-python2 = 2.10.0-1" from tsort relations.
> warning:     gnome-python2-gnomevfs-2.10.0-1.i386     Requires:
> gnome-python2 = 2.10.0-1
> warning: removing gnome-python2-2.10.0-1.i386 "Requires:
> gnome-python2-gnomevfs" from tsort relations.
> warning:     gnome-python2-2.10.0-1.i386              Requires:
> gnome-python2-gnomevfs
>
> Looks like I borked my repo doing yum updates?
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony
>   
>  
No. Just let it run, it will finish.

pkgorder LOOP

[tony]

Le samedi 21 janvier 2006 à 04:06 -0600, J. Hartline a écrit :

>  No. Just let it run, it will finish. 
OK thanks.

It built but I still have my kernel naming issue which does not concern
this list - so I have no initrd in /boot...

Thanks so much for helping with the other pkgorder thing.

Tony
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Mike Kearey]

On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 23:01 +0100, tony wrote:
>  Le vendredi 20 janvier 2006 à 02:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
>  
>  > >Looks like we're getting some critical mass here again.  The list has been 
>  > >quite active, I know a couple of Red Hat engineers have approached me 
>  > >personally with their interest in contributing, and we've got lots and 
>  > >lots of community interest here.
>  > >
>  > >What we don't yet have:
>  > >  * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project,
>  
>  Meaning? I did a minimal FC4 LiveCD second time around that is easy as
>  long as you stick to Fedora packages. What is hard is moving away from
>  the Fedora kernels. Everything else just works as long as you RTFM 
The meaning of "* A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this
project" is ( my definition here!!) a set of ready to download, ready
and working LiveCD's so that people may grab them and run them.

These CD's need to adequately demonstrate what Fedora Core is, since
that is one of the most common uses of a LiveCD :).

Cheers,
Michael

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[J. Hartline]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

>  I would like a hack to dump a live cd to hard disk even its not 
>  supported by the project. Performance was very poor when I tried a 
>  prerelease of BlagBlagBlag that used kadischi.
>   
>  
You might try running prelink on the system dir before compression and 
ISO creation.
Some folks believe this is a good idea.

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Andy Gospodarek]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 04:06:20PM -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>  
>  All,
>  
>  Looks like we're getting some critical mass here again.  The list has been 
>  quite active, I know a couple of Red Hat engineers have approached me 
>  personally with their interest in contributing, and we've got lots and 
>  lots of community interest here.
>  
>  What we don't yet have:
>    * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project,
>      which would be incredibly useful to lots and lots of people;
>    * A set of priorities about what to fix, and how;
>    * A roadmap for moving forward to FC5 and beyond.
>  
>  Seems like maybe we've got enough people to start focusing on these issues 
>  again.  Do folks agree?  Is it worth getting together on IRC for an hour 
>  sometime to see if we can resuscitate this project and give it some 
>  badly-needed direction again?
>  
>  --g
>  
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org
>  Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list 
Sounds good to me.  It seems there are some that just want an easy way
to create a live Fedora CD/DVD for demo purposes and others that want a
tool that can help them make a live Fedora-based CD/DVD.  

We should find a way to collaborate until kadischi is stable enough so
these things can start to happen, and we probably need to have some sort
of meeting to determine how we can get that started.

I have no day or time preference (as long as it's a weekday...).

-andy

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Thierry Jules]

hi!
thinks that an excellent idea. However, while focusing on issues related to
kadischi istself, i think that we should also come up with a "workplan" to
maintain the Kadischi wki accordingly(Im not saying that its not actually
being done but  ways could be found to improve it). Coming up with a Live Cd
ready to be downloaded by users is a good thing but we should not forget
that supporting user issues will come mainly from the wiki... and that
mainly will determine the ease of use / popularity of Kadischi in the
future..


Thierry

On 1/20/06, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  All,
>
>  Looks like we're getting some critical mass here again.  The list has been
>  quite active, I know a couple of Red Hat engineers have approached me
>  personally with their interest in contributing, and we've got lots and
>  lots of community interest here.
>
>  What we don't yet have:
>    * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project,
>      which would be incredibly useful to lots and lots of people;
>    * A set of priorities about what to fix, and how;
>    * A roadmap for moving forward to FC5 and beyond.
>
>  Seems like maybe we've got enough people to start focusing on these issues
>  again.  Do folks agree?  Is it worth getting together on IRC for an hour
>  sometime to see if we can resuscitate this project and give it some
>  badly-needed direction again?
>
>  --g
>
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org
>  Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  --
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
>

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 1/20/06, Thierry Jules <thierryjules(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  hi!
>   thinks that an excellent idea. However, while focusing on issues related to
>  kadischi istself, i think that we should also come up with a "workplan" to
>  maintain the Kadischi wki accordingly(Im not saying that its not actually
>  being done but  ways could be found to improve it). 
This might be done during meeting times :)

>  Coming up with a Live Cd
>  ready to be downloaded by users is a good thing but we should not forget
>  that supporting user issues will come mainly from the wiki... and that
>  mainly will determine the ease of use / popularity of Kadischi in the
>  future..
>  
Is there someone who can link a "perfect" Fedora Live cd for download
to the wiki ? By the word perfect I mean that the Live cd is based
upon the principles of Fedora Project .


--
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[J. Hartline]

Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:

>  Is there someone who can link a "perfect" Fedora Live cd
> for download
>
> to the wiki ? By the word perfect I mean that the Live cd is based
> upon the principles of Fedora Project .
>
>
> --
> http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
>
> --
> Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
> Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
>
>   
>  
I have offered to build one, all I need is a package list.

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Lucy Ringland]

Hi,
I'm working with a youth group that is very interested in using a LiveCD 
to show how Linux can be used...both in a computer lab setting and for 
kids to take home and try on their own systems. Do you suppose you could 
help me come up with a LiveCD based on a set of packages that would be 
appealing to kids?
Thanks,
Lucy in Docs

J. Hartline wrote:

>  Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
>
> > Is there someone who can link a "perfect" Fedora Live cd for download
> >
> > to the wiki ? By the word perfect I mean that the Live cd is based
> > upon the principles of Fedora Project .
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
> >
> > -- 
> > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
> > Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
> >
> >  
> >
>  I have offered to build one, all I need is a package list.
>
>  -- 
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Terry Turner]

Quoting Lucy Ringland <ringland(a)redhat.com&gt;:

>  I'm working with a youth group that is very interested in using a
> LiveCD
>  to show how Linux can be used...both in a computer lab setting and for
>  kids to take home and try on their own systems. Do you suppose you could
>  help me come up with a LiveCD based on a set of packages that would be
>  appealing to kids? 
Depending on the ages of the kids in question, you might want to compare
what you have in mind with what's offered by Edubuntu:

     http://www.edubuntu.org/tour.html

(They might already have a LiveCD too -- though not Fedora :(

Cheers,
Terry

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

In general:

I'd say that we would want to make sure that "official" Live CDs contain 
only packages from Core + Extras.

Therefore, if someone can get some kid-friendly packages into Extras, this 
should be fine.

--g

---------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Lucy Ringland wrote:

>  Hi,
>  I'm working with a youth group that is very interested in using a LiveCD 
>  to show how Linux can be used...both in a computer lab setting and for 
>  kids to take home and try on their own systems. Do you suppose you could 
>  help me come up with a LiveCD based on a set of packages that would be 
>  appealing to kids?
>  Thanks,
>  Lucy in Docs
>  
>  J. Hartline wrote:
>  
>  > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
>  >
>  >> Is there someone who can link a "perfect" Fedora Live cd for download
>  >>
>  >> to the wiki ? By the word perfect I mean that the Live cd is based
>  >> upon the principles of Fedora Project .
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> -- 
>  >> http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
>  >>
>  >> -- 
>  >> Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  >> Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
>  >>
>  >>  
>  >>
>  > I have offered to build one, all I need is a package list.
>  >
>  > -- 
>  > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  > Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
>

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[J. Hartline]

For the lab, you'll want at least telnet & telnet server, gftp or ftp, 
ssh and sshd, an IRCd, MySQL*, Apache httpd, vsftpd, etc.
Have them setup an internet based cluster, GFS, or FDS.

As far as edutorial applications are concerned you might check the 
kdeedu package.
For stock FC games, check gnome-games package and kdegames package.

Lucy Ringland wrote:

>  Hi,
>  I'm working with a youth group that is very interested in using a 
>  LiveCD to show how Linux can be used...both in a computer lab setting 
>  and for kids to take home and try on their own systems. Do you suppose 
>  you could help me come up with a LiveCD based on a set of packages 
>  that would be appealing to kids?
>  Thanks,
>  Lucy in Docs
>

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Thilo Pfennig]

2006/1/19, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt;:

>    * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this
> project,
>      which would be incredibly useful to lots and lots of people;
>    * A set of priorities about what to fix, and how; 
I am planning for months now a multimedia DVD basing on Kadischi. I
thought I would do it with GNOME only and in english. I am now
thinking I would rather like to include best of freedesktop solutions
and to start with english.

old homepage of project NINOG:
http://www.netzpolitik.org:8080/wiki/index.php/NINOG

NINOG will try to combine free licensed multimedia (movies, music),
patent free and freedesktop solutions (KDE, GNOME). It should be
attractive for users. It should give them some food for their
multimedia applications instead of forcing them to download realmedia,
mp3, mpeg and other patented-infested technologies.

I think I will install an own wiki for it soon. Anybody out there who
likes to join?


Thilo
--
http://www.pfennigsolutions.de

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Thierry Jules]

The link http://www.netzpolitik.org:8080/wiki/index.php/NINOG leads to a
german site isn't it?..
Could you just give a brief description of NINOG project coz i dont
understand german...

Sounds interesting...

On 1/20/06, Thilo Pfennig <tpfennig(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  2006/1/19, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>
>  >   * A set of "authoritative" Live CDs created by this project,
>  >     which would be incredibly useful to lots and lots of people;
>  >   * A set of priorities about what to fix, and how;
>
>  I am planning for months now a multimedia DVD basing on Kadischi. I
>  thought I would do it with GNOME only and in english. I am now
>  thinking I would rather like to include best of freedesktop solutions
>  and to start with english.
>
>  old homepage of project NINOG:
>  http://www.netzpolitik.org:8080/wiki/index.php/NINOG
>
>  NINOG will try to combine free licensed multimedia (movies, music),
>  patent free and freedesktop solutions (KDE, GNOME). It should be
>  attractive for users. It should give them some food for their
>  multimedia applications instead of forcing them to download realmedia,
>  mp3, mpeg and other patented-infested technologies.
>
>  I think I will install an own wiki for it soon. Anybody out there who
>  likes to join?
>
>
>  Thilo
>  --
>  http://www.pfennigsolutions.de
>
>  --
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
>

Time to pick the weekly meeting back up?

[Thilo Pfennig]

2006/1/20, Thierry Jules <thierryjules(a)gmail.com&gt;:

Well I had a small summary there in english:

#  NINO will be a completely free (patents, licenses,...) Multimedia DVD
# it shall show off GNOME and Creative Commons material.
# it will be based on Fedora and use the future version of GNOME 2.14
# language will be german and maybe english.
# work is still in progress. expects to be ready sometime this year

The idea was to give the user a nice user experience. Live Cds mostly
are short on space and do not give a lot. Gnome Live CD has some GNOME
specs as PDF (wow, users love this). If the user tries to open
multimedia from the internet because he does not get his food on CD he
will experience that Linux can not play multimedia, because it does
not play the mp3s and realaudio.

This DVD should make a user "full". It also should make him interested
in more. I like the creative commons movies. On A DVD there is also
not unlimited space but we can do "something".

I would suggest to base this DVD on the official Fedora-Live-CD and
then make corrections for what we think should be added or deleted.

On the applications side my vision is to show off some applications.
This means that we always also should give a tutorial. We could also
provide some videos made with the help from the other new exciting
Fedora project "Istanbul"
(http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScreenCasting). Certainbly people
should be given tutorials for: GIMP, Inkscape.

Can we also provide preinstalled plugins? Then why not providing
Firefox with some nice extensions although this is not official. But
this DVD should not be officlal - I'd love it to be expermental.

OTOH I would like to put some nice music on it with free licenses. We
could put this all ready made in a playlist. The user should feel
welcomed and have some things to explore. Personally I always found
LiveCds often boring (Knoppix etc.). You don't really experience the
multimedia side of Linux, so people get the impression that Linux is
about partitioning,etc.

I also would suggest to have only one version of the DVD for each
language, so that people do not have to select a language. Maybe we
can let them choose the keyboard if they hit a special key at boot
time?

Question? Should I open a Wiki of my own or would this project fit
into the fedora project wiki workspace?


Greetings,
Thilo
--
http://vinci.wordpress.com

[tony]

Le jeudi 19 janvier 2006 à 12:15 -0500, Jeremy Katz a écrit :
>  I spent a little bit of time a few months ago looking at Kadischi
> and
>  sent Darko a bit of feedback (also based on some mail from him on what
>  he saw the next steps as being).  So, I figure it's time that I take
>  that information and dump it for the wider audience now. 
>  * The initrds currently being generated by Kadischi are from a one
> off
>  script rather than utilizing mkinitrd.  This means that you have to
>  generate the initrd by hand afterwards instead of having the kernel post
>  script do it for you.  It also means that changes have to be tracked in
>  the Kadischi version of the script.  With the mkinitrd currently in
>  rawhide, there is the ability to override commands from nash.  Also,
>  with the support for handling multiple initramfs's, a secondary
>  initramfs can be created that just has the overriden commands.  For
>  ensuring that modules get included in the initrd, there is some support
>  for overriding things that are detected via /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd --
>  we probably want to make it so that anaconda ensures
>  that /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd is generated correctly so the first time an
>  initrd is created, it's "right" 
Now I understand... Jeez all those hours wasted looking at this from all
angles...

Jeremy you got anything else you must tell us? =:-D

The language stuff I just nuke in my comps.xml, my live CD must be
French and English period.

What about ssh keygen? How does one get around that? I am thinking along
the lines of someone wanting to ssh from work into a VDR based PVR, his
mom has to reboot the computer and it takes ages to generate keys...

Tony
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

[J. Hartline]

tony wrote:

> Now I understand... Jeez all those hours wasted looking at this from
> all
> angles...
>
> Jeremy you got anything else you must tell us? =:-D
>
>
> Tony
>   
>  
I sent an email to the list, it may not have reached it I'm not sure.
It showed how to install a custom kernel in the LiveCD.. did you not get it?

[tony]

Le jeudi 19 janvier 2006 à 17:22 -0500, J. Hartline a écrit :

>  I sent an email to the list, it may not have reached it I'm not
> sure.
>  It showed how to install a custom kernel in the LiveCD.. did you not get it? 
No I didn't see that one. It would be printed and on my desk if I had
=:-D

Tony
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

[J. Hartline]

tony wrote:

> Le jeudi 19 janvier 2006 à 17:22 -0500, J. Hartline a écrit :
>
>   
>
> >I sent an email to the list, it may not have reached it I'm not sure.
> >It showed how to install a custom kernel in the LiveCD.. did you not get it?
> >    
> >
>
> No I didn't see that one. It would be printed and on my desk if I had
> =:-D
>
> Tony
>   
>  
See the archive.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2006-January/msg00074....

[tony]

Le jeudi 19 janvier 2006 à 17:22 -0500, J. Hartline a écrit :

>  I sent an email to the list, it may not have reached it I'm not
> sure.
>  It showed how to install a custom kernel in the LiveCD.. did you not get it? 
Searching through the archives - your message from the 16th

>  I'm going to have to guess you may be running Kadischi/Anaconda
> in a VMware VM, perhaps? 
Nope running in a xterm "su -" the rpm build environnement is
in /home/tony and the repo in /media/FC4

Tony  
-- 
Tony Grant
www.tgds.net - vente d'ordinateurs mini-itx, hébergement: www.3continents.com -
international film festival |
www.chez-reine.com - gîte en Bretagne | www.haut-planty.com - Muscadet wine |
www.loire-estuaire.org - GIP Loire Estuaire

[Jeremy Katz]

On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 22:54 +0100, tony wrote:
>  Le jeudi 19 janvier 2006 à 12:15 -0500, Jeremy Katz a écrit :
>  > I spent a little bit of time a few months ago looking at Kadischi and
>  > sent Darko a bit of feedback (also based on some mail from him on what
>  > he saw the next steps as being).  So, I figure it's time that I take
>  > that information and dump it for the wider audience now.
>  
>  > * The initrds currently being generated by Kadischi are from a one off
>  > script rather than utilizing mkinitrd.  This means that you have to
>  > generate the initrd by hand afterwards instead of having the kernel post
>  > script do it for you.  It also means that changes have to be tracked in
>  > the Kadischi version of the script.  With the mkinitrd currently in
>  > rawhide, there is the ability to override commands from nash.  Also,
>  > with the support for handling multiple initramfs's, a secondary
>  > initramfs can be created that just has the overriden commands.  For
>  > ensuring that modules get included in the initrd, there is some support
>  > for overriding things that are detected via /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd --
>  > we probably want to make it so that anaconda ensures
>  > that /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd is generated correctly so the first time an
>  > initrd is created, it's "right"
>  
>  Now I understand... Jeez all those hours wasted looking at this from all
>  angles...
>  
>  Jeremy you got anything else you must tell us? =:-D 
Heh, that was what was on the top of my head.  Just was traveling all
week (my first batch of mail was the first time I was in the airport,
this was from my flight back :-)

>  The language stuff I just nuke in my comps.xml, my live CD must be
>  French and English period. 
That doesn't ensure that the mo files from /usr/share/locale aren't
installed

>  What about ssh keygen? How does one get around that? I am thinking
> along
>  the lines of someone wanting to ssh from work into a VDR based PVR, his
>  mom has to reboot the computer and it takes ages to generate keys... 
I think you actually really do want to generate the keys everytime.
Otherwise, it's confusing when you move a live cd from one machine to
another.  Possibly having a way to keep various state items (including
this) on something like a USB key or a partition makes sense, but you
almost certainly don't want it on the CD.

Jeremy

[Andy Gospodarek]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:22:32AM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
>  
>  I think you actually really do want to generate the keys everytime.
>  Otherwise, it's confusing when you move a live cd from one machine to
>  another.  Possibly having a way to keep various state items (including
>  this) on something like a USB key or a partition makes sense, but you
>  almost certainly don't want it on the CD.
>  
>  Jeremy 
Using a USB flash drive for storing configuration or other data would be
an interesting.  Maybe even allow support for a user's home directory to
be on the flash drive?  Of course the possibilities are pretty
endless....

[Jeremy Katz]

On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 12:01 -0500, Andy Gospodarek wrote:
>  On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:22:32AM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
>  > I think you actually really do want to generate the keys everytime.
>  > Otherwise, it's confusing when you move a live cd from one machine to
>  > another.  Possibly having a way to keep various state items (including
>  > this) on something like a USB key or a partition makes sense, but you
>  > almost certainly don't want it on the CD.
>
>  Using a USB flash drive for storing configuration or other data would be
>  an interesting.  Maybe even allow support for a user's home directory to
>  be on the flash drive?  Of course the possibilities are pretty
>  endless.... 
Yeah, I think it's a further out "make things even nicer" item as
opposed to something that needs to be done right away

Jeremy

[Andy Gospodarek]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 12:12:11PM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
>  On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 12:01 -0500, Andy Gospodarek wrote:
>  > On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:22:32AM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
>  > > I think you actually really do want to generate the keys everytime.
>  > > Otherwise, it's confusing when you move a live cd from one machine to
>  > > another.  Possibly having a way to keep various state items (including
>  > > this) on something like a USB key or a partition makes sense, but you
>  > > almost certainly don't want it on the CD.
>  >
>  > Using a USB flash drive for storing configuration or other data would be
>  > an interesting.  Maybe even allow support for a user's home directory to
>  > be on the flash drive?  Of course the possibilities are pretty
>  > endless....
>  
>  Yeah, I think it's a further out "make things even nicer" item as
>  opposed to something that needs to be done right away
>  
>  Jeremy
>   
I agree 100%