I'm out right now but we decided that as the docs CMS, Zikula won't make it for F12. Marketing would like to have something minimally function, but I'm not sure if that's Zikula or something else right now, frankly.
----- Original Message ----- From: logistics-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org logistics-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org To: logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Fri Aug 14 20:18:27 2009 Subject: Zikula deployment date
Do we have a solid date for when this is expected to be put into production? The Fedora Infrastructure schedule is tied, very closely to the Fedora launch. Note that we freeze two weeks prior to each pre-release.
That means, as long as there's no slips, we will be frozen from September 8th through the 23rd as well as October 20th through the 4th. Just a warning from experience, these freeze zones really sneak up on you. Also, slips often get announced during one of our freeze periods so what starts as a 2 week freeze, often ends up being a 3 or even 4 week slip. Doing the math that leaves very little time during these pre-release and final release periods to get changes in.
I'd strongly recommend getting zikula deployed as soon as possible, we're currently frozen for the alpha but we have a window from August 25th to September 8th where we can do this if it's ready. If not, we're pushing _really close_ to that period of time that almost never goes according to schedule.
Also note the translation deadline is September 15th. Not sure if we were planning on having content that should be translated or not.
-Mike, bringer of doom _______________________________________________ logistics mailing list logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/logistics
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On 2009-08-14 08:23:57 PM, Stanley, Jon wrote:
I'm out right now but we decided that as the docs CMS, Zikula won't make it for F12. Marketing would like to have something minimally function, but I'm not sure if that's Zikula or something else right now, frankly.
Marketing's deployment would take place on value1, which shouldn't be covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
Thanks, Ricky
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Ricky Zhou wrote:
On 2009-08-14 08:23:57 PM, Stanley, Jon wrote:
I'm out right now but we decided that as the docs CMS, Zikula won't make it for F12. Marketing would like to have something minimally function, but I'm not sure if that's Zikula or something else right now, frankly.
Marketing's deployment would take place on value1, which shouldn't be covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
If it's marketing related or an official support system we should probably move it to the normal app servers. Though I don't really know what marketing had in mind for it.
-Mike
On 2009-08-14 10:31:20 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
If it's marketing related or an official support system we should probably move it to the normal app servers. Though I don't really know what marketing had in mind for it.
Maybe we need to have a rule for what should be considered value added (like blogs.fp.o) vs. "official" (like fcomm). For what it's worth, the test I much used was:
17:58 < ricky> If this is going to be considered a value-added service, it'll likely be on a server that's not covered by the freeze 17:59 < ianweller> ricky: define 'value-added' :) 17:59 < mchua> ricky: (3) websites + marketing - being taken care of, mostly a content question in my mind; we've got it down, so this is not a worry. 17:59 < ricky> It mean not in our critical path - stuff that needs to happen to make Fedora 17:59 < ricky> .tiny http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-infrastructure.git?p=fedora-infrastru... 17:59 < zodbot> ricky: http://tinyurl.com/ox5a33 17:59 < mchua> ricky: yeah, this is very much a value-added.
I definitely slanted things by saying "not critical path" there, but that was what I thought the rule was, so please correct me if I'm mistaken :-)
Thanks, Ricky
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:37:31PM -0400, Ricky Zhou wrote:
I definitely slanted things by saying "not critical path" there, but that was what I thought the rule was, so please correct me if I'm mistaken :-)
That is a pretty nice "bright and shiny line not to cross", IMO.
- Karsten
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Ricky Zhou wrote:
On 2009-08-14 10:31:20 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
If it's marketing related or an official support system we should probably move it to the normal app servers. Though I don't really know what marketing had in mind for it.
Maybe we need to have a rule for what should be considered value added (like blogs.fp.o) vs. "official" (like fcomm). For what it's worth, the test I much used was:
17:58 < ricky> If this is going to be considered a value-added service, it'll likely be on a server that's not covered by the freeze 17:59 < ianweller> ricky: define 'value-added' :) 17:59 < mchua> ricky: (3) websites + marketing - being taken care of, mostly a content question in my mind; we've got it down, so this is not a worry. 17:59 < ricky> It mean not in our critical path - stuff that needs to happen to make Fedora 17:59 < ricky> .tiny http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-infrastructure.git?p=fedora-infrastru... 17:59 < zodbot> ricky: http://tinyurl.com/ox5a33 17:59 < mchua> ricky: yeah, this is very much a value-added.
I definitely slanted things by saying "not critical path" there, but that was what I thought the rule was, so please correct me if I'm mistaken :-)
I guess we'll have to talk about what "they" want to do with it. If the docs team is going to use it, I'd say that's critical path. It'd be on the same line as http://fedoraproject.org/ in that case. And if marketing is going to do press releases or anything that might get linked to from the release announcement, I'd put that in critical path too.
Are we going to have multiple zikula installs going at once here or share one? Sorry that I'm not totally up to date on this. I'm aware of the docs zikula usage but I'm not sure what the plan is for marketing at the moment.
-Mike
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
Yep, that's almost up on publictest6. I'm working through it verrrry slowly since it's my first time getting something up on infra; so far I've spent about an hour on it and am almost-but-not-quite done. The same steps take 14 minutes on my laptop, so clearly I have much to learn. Ricky's been a great help with navigating the stuff I'm unfamiliar with, and I'm documenting the living daylights out of this: http://blog.melchua.com/2009/08/16/how-the-zikula-based-test-instance-of-fi-...
If it's marketing related or an official support system we should probably move it to the normal app servers. Though I don't really know what marketing had in mind for it.
I guess we'll have to talk about what "they" want to do with it.
For the record: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight. (FI for short.)
This is a separate instance from docs, so there are at least two zikula installs needed; docs, which has a lot of requirements that aren't all worked out yet (see: list of legal blockers and packaging-needed stuff) and marketing/FI, which only needs 3 packages (core zikula and two modules, all three of which are packaged) and therefore isn't blocked by any of the packaging/legal issues that docs is.
So, as far as I can tell, zikula-based FI *is* an option for F12, especially if it isn't critical path and can go onto a server that isn't affected by the freeze. But I'm not sure whether these things are true...
if marketing is going to do press releases or anything that might get linked to from the release announcement, I'd put that in critical path too.
We are going to be putting press releases and pretty much everything that gets linked to from the release announcement on FI. So Mike, I reckon it's my turn to apologize for not having gotten fully up to speed on how infrastructure freezes work yet, and ask:
1. is FI critical-path (and therefore impacted by infrastructure freeze?) 2. given the answer to (1), what timeline/deadlines would you propose for getting FI infrastructure up and onto production (before September 8? get it on publictest now and wait until F13 for the rest?) (What should work, on what server, when?)
--Mel
PS: Re: translation deadline being September 15 - whether we aim for that depends almost entirely on whether we can get a production instance up more than a week or so in advance of that date, so I'm concentrating on settling the latter question first.
On 08/16/2009 03:32 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
And it's done. Try it out at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula - there isn't a clear notion of workflow yet, so we're really just generally mucking around to see what we can do with it right now. Tinker away!
Questions still outstanding:
- is FI critical-path (and therefore impacted by infrastructure freeze?)
- given the answer to (1), what timeline/deadlines would you propose
for getting FI infrastructure up and onto production (before September 8? get it on publictest now and wait until F13 for the rest?) (What should work, on what server, when?)
--Mel
On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 17:45 -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
On 08/16/2009 03:32 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
And it's done. Try it out at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
- there isn't a clear notion of workflow yet, so we're really just
generally mucking around to see what we can do with it right now. Tinker away!
Is there any chance I could get ssh access to this? I'd like to play around with the theming...
~m
Is there any chance I could get ssh access to this? I'd like to play around with the theming...
yesyesyes! Ask in #fedora-admin to be added to the sysadmin-test FAS group, and you'll be able to ssh to publictest6.fedoraproject.org.
http://zikulathemes.com might be of interest.
--Mel
2009/8/17 Máirín Duffy mairin@linuxgrrl.com:
On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 17:45 -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
On 08/16/2009 03:32 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
And it's done. Try it out at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
- there isn't a clear notion of workflow yet, so we're really just
generally mucking around to see what we can do with it right now. Tinker away!
Is there any chance I could get ssh access to this? I'd like to play around with the theming...
~m
And for your follow-up question - source for the theme module is here: git://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-zikula.git and if you'll apply for gitfedora-zikula I'll happily grant you commit access.
On 08/17/2009 02:45 PM, Mel Chua wrote:
On 08/16/2009 03:32 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
And it's done. Try it out at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
- there isn't a clear notion of workflow yet, so we're really just
generally mucking around to see what we can do with it right now. Tinker away!
Questions still outstanding:
- is FI critical-path (and therefore impacted by infrastructure freeze?)
From the description, I say yes it is.
- given the answer to (1), what timeline/deadlines would you propose
for getting FI infrastructure up and onto production (before September 8? get it on publictest now and wait until F13 for the rest?) (What should work, on what server, when?)
What needs to be running in time for you to do things with it? I assume that once the system is running you still need to generate content for it? Or do we need to import content/copy a database?
If it's running to your satisfaction on publictest6, (ie, as far as you're concerned, if the software there can be run on production and only content that you write will be added), then it's probably time to get it into puppet and deployed to the staging environment. Once that's done, mmcgrath will need to talk to you about what kind of load you expect to see and spend (I believe he thought about a week) making sure it will handle the number of users we expect to see. And won't negatively impact other services at the same time. If all of that can be done before two weeks from final freeze, we should be okay to get this in. Even better would be to get this running on staging before alpha is released so that we have the full time between alpha and final to work out any problems.
As for when Infrastructure is frozen: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/Schedule
Each time there's a release (alpha, beta, and final), we freeze two weeks before a release is planned. If the release slips, then we extend the freeze. *If a release slips and the next release does not slip then we have less time in between to get things done*. Note that we can do things via change request, though. So if Fedora Release slips are interfering with our plans to deploy zikula but zikula is all ready to go, then we need to discuss that in an infrastructure meeting and decide as a group if we can do it in a change request and whether that's best done while preparing for the (alpha/beta) release or in the first week of the final.
-Toshio
If it's running to your satisfaction on publictest6, (ie, as far as you're concerned, if the software there can be run on production and only content that you write will be added), then it's probably time to get it into puppet and deployed to the staging environment. Once that's done, mmcgrath will need to talk to you about what kind of load you expect to see and spend (I believe he thought about a week) making sure it will handle the number of users we expect to see. And won't negatively impact other services at the same time. If all of that can be done before two weeks from final freeze, we should be okay to get this in. Even better would be to get this running on staging before alpha is released so that we have the full time between alpha and final to work out any problems.
It would also be worth letting me give any Zikula instance the once over (in consultation with mmcgrath) to ensure it's set up appropriately for the user-load you expect and the sort of content you plan on serving.
On 2009-08-17 11:34:01 PM, Simon Birtwistle wrote:
It would also be worth letting me give any Zikula instance the once over (in consultation with mmcgrath) to ensure it's set up appropriately for the user-load you expect and the sort of content you plan on serving.
Hey, that'd be great - the one thing I've told Mel so far is to set it up to use InnoDB for its database tables, but we'd love any other advice about how to set this up properly.
Thanks, Ricky
On 08/17/2009 07:02 PM, Ricky Zhou wrote:
On 2009-08-17 11:34:01 PM, Simon Birtwistle wrote:
It would also be worth letting me give any Zikula instance the once over (in consultation with mmcgrath) to ensure it's set up appropriately for the user-load you expect and the sort of content you plan on serving.
Hey, that'd be great - the one thing I've told Mel so far is to set it up to use InnoDB for its database tables, but we'd love any other advice about how to set this up properly.
Thanks, Toshio and Simon (and Ricky for all your help and patience!) And a huge +1 to this. Advice and help is awesome.
I assume that once the system is running you still need to generate content for it? Or do we need to import content/copy a database?
There is no content to import and no database to copy - we'll be creating and posting all new materials from scratch.
If it's running to your satisfaction on publictest6, (ie, as far as you're concerned, if the software there can be run on production and only content that you write will be added), then it's probably time to get it into puppet and deployed to the staging environment.
I'm hoping we'll be at this point in a week. (This may be overly ambitious. We *should* be here in 2 weeks at most.) We need to add in FAS auth (I'm doing that right now) and then spec out and test a workflow until we're happy with it (Robyn Bergeron is working on this).
done, mmcgrath will need to talk to you about what kind of load you expect to see and spend (I believe he thought about a week) making sure it will handle the number of users we expect to see. And won't negatively impact other services at the same time.
Ok - is there a good way to get an estimate for load other than "wellll, maybe something on the order of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics#fedoraproject.org_unique_visitors%2...
(This explanation of what to do and expect is incredibly helpful, btw - thanks!)
If all of that can be done before two weeks from final freeze, we should be okay to get this in. Even better would be to get this running on staging before alpha is released so that we have the full time between alpha and final to work out any problems.
Ok - beta freeze is September 22, so two weeks before that gives us a September 8 deadline for absolutely-must-be-done, and an August 25 (Alpha release - next week, whoa!) deadline for ideally-this-will-be-done.
Phew. That's tight. Lemme poke a bit at mapping out specs and a schedule (and installing fasauth) and I'll be back.
--Mel, who's trying to hand off let's-get-FI-up work as fast as possible because she's already spent twice as long on marketing stuff this week as she'd planned.
Ok - beta freeze is September 22, so two weeks before that gives us a September 8 deadline for absolutely-must-be-done, and an August 25 (Alpha release - next week, whoa!) deadline for ideally-this-will-be-done.
Phew. That's tight. Lemme poke a bit at mapping out specs and a schedule (and installing fasauth) and I'll be back.
Ok. From the dates on this email discussion, I've got https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Schedule - what needs to be fixed/changed? (I'm already grimacing at how tight this schedule is, but if that's what we need to do, that's what we need to do.)
Requirements from various teams are here - they need to be mapped onto zikula modules. I'm not sure what things on this list are possible yet. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Platform_specs.2Frequirements
--Mel
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 05:45:23PM -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
On 08/16/2009 03:32 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
And it's done. Try it out at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
- there isn't a clear notion of workflow yet, so we're really just
generally mucking around to see what we can do with it right now. Tinker away!
The non-SSL version needs to be disabled and forward to https://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
luke
On 08/18/2009 09:16 PM, Luke Macken wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 05:45:23PM -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
On 08/16/2009 03:32 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
covered by any freezes. Mel will be working on getting a test instance for marketing on a publictest machine soon.
And it's done. Try it out at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
- there isn't a clear notion of workflow yet, so we're really just
generally mucking around to see what we can do with it right now. Tinker away!
The non-SSL version needs to be disabled and forward to https://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula
That only fixes part of the problem as the certificate for publictest machines is self-signed. Really, we need to make sure we aren't pointing at the real fas but the publictest fas instead...
-Toshio "not sure how to remind people not to type their real fas account information into any host on publictest, though"
That only fixes part of the problem as the certificate for publictest machines is self-signed. Really, we need to make sure we aren't pointing at the real fas but the publictest fas instead...
We are - I fixed that last night or the night before. The point about users is valid though :)
Simon
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