Zikula Meeting Agenda 2009-07-29 15:00 UTC
== Last Meeting == * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Zikula_20090722
== Packaging Status Follow up == * https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=504066&hide_resolv... * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status * '''ACTIONS:''' ** stickster to push zikula-module-News to stable ** stickster to resolve phpSmug naming, build and push ** Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can just remove the "broken" pieces. ** ke4qqq: review stickster's renamed packages ** ke4qqq will contact upstream authors of cc-licensed js by eow and see if relicensing can happen.
== Information from ke4qqq === Found yet another bundled library in Zikula - phpmenulayers. Fortunately this is already being packaged https://bugzilla.redhat.com/process_bug.cgi
However, phpmenulayers bundles the following library: http://pear.php.net/package/HTML_Template_PHPLIB/
We may want to jump on that (esp since there are some relatively automated spec building tools for pear packages.)
To my knowledge - everything not blocked on licensing has been approved except zikula-module-mediashare. This was waiting on a number of dependencies, (4 or 5, which have at least all been approved, if not already built) There may likewise be licensing issues, but if there are, we need to get them in front of upstream and/or fixed by us asap.
=== Stuff blocked by licensing: ===
* zikula-module-menutree https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=511998 Upstream said they were working on this, but I haven't heard anything in a while. Some of this is merely a set of icons, the one package with no licensing information is problematic and we might need to see what we can do with it/without it. Let's ping upstream again on this issue as well
* zikula-module-mediaattach https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506038 Ian has really not even started packaging this one because he found so many licensing issues. I've notified upstream, but we may need to see what we can do to purge some of this stuff.
* zikula-module-content https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 Lukas has this moving along - there is a licensing issue with lightboxXL. I fired off an email re: relicensing/dual licensing to lightboxXL's author on 22 June, but to date have received no response. It might help if a native spanish speaker sent an email explaining the situation, but it looks like this might have to get jettisoned which might involve patching source.
DISCUSS: next actions and plans to resolve these blockers
== Test Instance == * '''ACTIONS''': Need to set a date to template the conf files for puppet and create package lists, etc.
== Project Management == * '''ACTIONS''': Poelcat to work on creating draft schedule by the first part of next week and follow through on coordinating finalizing it
== Draft Zikula Schedule == --Promised skeleton is below... Poelstra needs detailed tasks from all the teams to fill in this schedule. Suggest doing this with Gobby (and possibly Fedora Talk) ASAP * DISCUSS: set time and date using--http://whenisgood.net/RKQ8tE
Packaging Modules Tue 2009-06-10 ??? --when will we really be done?
Start Alpha Freeze Tue 2009-08-04 Tue 2009-08-04
Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-18 Tue 2009-08-18
Test Instance "Go Live" Tue 2009-08-25 Tue 2009-08-25
Performance Testing Wed 2009-08-26 Fri 2009-09-04
Final (Beta) Freeze Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22
Build Production Box ??? ???
Deploy Production Box ??? ???
Beta Release Public Availability Tue 2009-10-06 Tue 2009-10-06
Zikula "Go Live" for F12 Release ??? ???
GA Release Tue 2009-11-03 Tue 2009-11-03
== Next Meeting Date & Time == * Anyone heard from 'itbegins'? * Next Wednesday @ 15:00 UTC ?
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 14:47 -0700, John Poelstra wrote:
Zikula Meeting Agenda 2009-07-29 15:00 UTC
John, I, unfortunately, will be unavailable for tomorrow's meeting.
== Last Meeting ==
== Packaging Status Follow up ==
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=504066&hide_resolv...
- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status
- '''ACTIONS:'''
** Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can just remove the "broken" pieces.
This has been completed and scribite! is in the repo. Upstream removed ALL text editors from within scribite! and provides them separately. I just need to know what text editor(s) need to be packaged. Zikula has Xinha (I don't think this one is GPL), tinymce, fckeditor, openwysiwyg, and nicedit.
--Eric
On 07/28/2009 03:08 PM, Eric Christensen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 14:47 -0700, John Poelstra wrote:
- '''ACTIONS:'''
** Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can just remove the "broken" pieces.
This has been completed and scribite! is in the repo. Upstream removed ALL text editors from within scribite! and provides them separately. I just need to know what text editor(s) need to be packaged. Zikula has Xinha (I don't think this one is GPL), tinymce, fckeditor, openwysiwyg, and nicedit.
From the last upstream package that had the editors, xinha was the only one that had a license incompatible with the GPL. I don't know what might have been stripped in that package vs from upstream, though.
On 07/28/2009 02:47 PM, John Poelstra wrote:
== Draft Zikula Schedule == --Promised skeleton is below... Poelstra needs detailed tasks from all the teams to fill in this schedule. Suggest doing this with Gobby (and possibly Fedora Talk) ASAP
- DISCUSS: set time and date using--http://whenisgood.net/RKQ8tE
Packaging Modules Tue 2009-06-10 ??? --when will we really be done?
We don't strictly need all of the modules to be in Fedora to go into infrastructure but they need to be under review. Licensing and bundling should both have been audited and resolved, at least, as inability to resolve those later could mean that we have to take down the service (licensing) or security issues (bundling).
Start Alpha Freeze Tue 2009-08-04 Tue 2009-08-04
Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-18 Tue 2009-08-18
Test Instance "Go Live" Tue 2009-08-25 Tue 2009-08-25
Performance Testing Wed 2009-08-26 Fri 2009-09-04
Final (Beta) Freeze Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22
Build Production Box ??? ???
Deploy Production Box ??? ???
mmcgrath: Do we want to build a separate box for zikula or host it on the app servers? I remember at one time we wanted it to have its own box due to security concerns but I don't know if that's still the case.
Beta Release Public Availability Tue 2009-10-06 Tue 2009-10-06
Zikula "Go Live" for F12 Release ??? ???
GA Release Tue 2009-11-03 Tue 2009-11-03
-Toshio
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
On 07/28/2009 03:08 PM, Eric Christensen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 14:47 -0700, John Poelstra wrote:
- '''ACTIONS:'''
** Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can just remove the "broken" pieces.
This has been completed and scribite! is in the repo. Upstream removed ALL text editors from within scribite! and provides them separately. I just need to know what text editor(s) need to be packaged. Zikula has Xinha (I don't think this one is GPL), tinymce, fckeditor, openwysiwyg, and nicedit.
From the last upstream package that had the editors, xinha was the only one that had a license incompatible with the GPL. I don't know what might have been stripped in that package vs from upstream, though.
On 07/28/2009 02:47 PM, John Poelstra wrote:
== Draft Zikula Schedule == --Promised skeleton is below... Poelstra needs detailed tasks from all the teams to fill in this schedule. Suggest doing this with Gobby (and possibly Fedora Talk) ASAP
- DISCUSS: set time and date using--http://whenisgood.net/RKQ8tE
Packaging Modules Tue 2009-06-10 ??? --when will we really be done?
We don't strictly need all of the modules to be in Fedora to go into infrastructure but they need to be under review. Licensing and bundling should both have been audited and resolved, at least, as inability to resolve those later could mean that we have to take down the service (licensing) or security issues (bundling).
Start Alpha Freeze Tue 2009-08-04 Tue 2009-08-04
Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-18 Tue 2009-08-18
Test Instance "Go Live" Tue 2009-08-25 Tue 2009-08-25
Performance Testing Wed 2009-08-26 Fri 2009-09-04
Final (Beta) Freeze Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22
Build Production Box ??? ???
Deploy Production Box ??? ???
mmcgrath: Do we want to build a separate box for zikula or host it on the app servers? I remember at one time we wanted it to have its own box due to security concerns but I don't know if that's still the case.
lets throw it on the app servers, we've already got mediawiki on there :) Plus selinux is on the horizon. Also since we do already have a close relationship with the developers, hopefully if something urgent comes out they'll give us the heads up.
-Mike
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:08:17PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote:
This has been completed and scribite! is in the repo. Upstream removed ALL text editors from within scribite! and provides them separately. I just need to know what text editor(s) need to be packaged. Zikula has Xinha (I don't think this one is GPL), tinymce, fckeditor, openwysiwyg, and nicedit.
Is tinymce the editor used in Wordpress? If we're bothering, we could focus first on editors that mimic or match other wysiwyg editors that contributors are already familiar with.
Are you figuring Beacon in to this at all? If it's featureful, we could just roll our energy in that direction.
- Karsten
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 15:57 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:08:17PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote:
This has been completed and scribite! is in the repo. Upstream removed ALL text editors from within scribite! and provides them separately. I just need to know what text editor(s) need to be packaged. Zikula has Xinha (I don't think this one is GPL), tinymce, fckeditor, openwysiwyg, and nicedit.
Is tinymce the editor used in Wordpress? If we're bothering, we could focus first on editors that mimic or match other wysiwyg editors that contributors are already familiar with.
Are you figuring Beacon in to this at all? If it's featureful, we could just roll our energy in that direction.
- Karsten
I really don't know what Beacon is going to look like so I'd probably like to package an additional editor just to be safe.
--Eric
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 07:20:58PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 15:57 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:08:17PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote:
This has been completed and scribite! is in the repo. Upstream removed ALL text editors from within scribite! and provides them separately. I just need to know what text editor(s) need to be packaged. Zikula has Xinha (I don't think this one is GPL), tinymce, fckeditor, openwysiwyg, and nicedit.
Is tinymce the editor used in Wordpress? If we're bothering, we could focus first on editors that mimic or match other wysiwyg editors that contributors are already familiar with.
Are you figuring Beacon in to this at all? If it's featureful, we could just roll our energy in that direction.
- Karsten
I really don't know what Beacon is going to look like so I'd probably like to package an additional editor just to be safe.
I don't want this to block on Beacon, but certainly it would be great to have that as an editing choice later. I suspect the work to get Zikula to use it is non-trivial, but easily scoped.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:43:08AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
I don't want this to block on Beacon, but certainly it would be great to have that as an editing choice later. I suspect the work to get Zikula to use it is non-trivial, but easily scoped.
Agreed, on the schedule as non-blocking.
Satya has been working like mad but a little too isolated. I'd like us to see if we can integrate her schedule so that we are beholden to keep track of each other. So, non-blocking but maybe we can insert it as a dependency *as if it were blocking*. I'd like to get the Docs Team a bit more beholden to tracking and testing the progress of the DocBook editor work. (We've been remiss in not responding to testing requests and such in a timely manner.) At the same time, I'd like to get Satya tied in her mind to this schedule so she is dropping status updates to this list (as well as f-docs-l), etc.
- Karsten
Hello,
I am very sorry, I could only check my email now. I am leaving for Pune to join Red Hat on Saturday morning so my schedule is a bit topsy-turvy right now. I will definitely be more regular from Monday.
2009/7/29 Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com:
Agreed, on the schedule as non-blocking.
Satya has been working like mad but a little too isolated. I'd like us to see if we can integrate her schedule so that we are beholden to keep track of each other. So, non-blocking but maybe we can insert it as a dependency *as if it were blocking*. I'd like to get the Docs Team a bit more beholden to tracking and testing the progress of the DocBook editor work. (We've been remiss in not responding to testing requests and such in a timely manner.) At the same time, I'd like to get Satya tied in her mind to this schedule so she is dropping status updates to this list (as well as f-docs-l), etc.
Sure, I can send my updates on this list too. I am attaching the latest tarball with this mail. One can also use the demo at [1] to check it out. Currently you can't save the doc created as a file (which is what I am working on right now). For the time being the work around is to go to the XML view, select all and paste to a text editor. The latest version can be obtained from by cloning from tuxfamily.org [2].
I was somewhat stagnated due to developing an application only from a developer's point of view. It would be great if people pool in with some suggestions on how I can make it usable. After this week I will be able to be regular again for the last stretch of GSoC and of course continue contribution/maintenance on this. It would be great to work alongside Zikula team and learn some PHP skills too (current PHP code is sub par).
Regards, Satya
[1] Demo: http://dev.gentooexperimental.org/~n9986/beacon/editor/ [2] git clone git://git.tuxfamily.org/gitroot/beacon/trunk.git
Inline reply
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:47 PM, John Poelstrapoelstra@redhat.com wrote:
Zikula Meeting Agenda 2009-07-29 15:00 UTC
Unfortunately I will likely not be able to attend this meeting either.
== Last Meeting ==
== Packaging Status Follow up ==
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=504066&hide_resolv...
- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status
- '''ACTIONS:'''
** stickster to push zikula-module-News to stable ** stickster to resolve phpSmug naming, build and push ** Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can just remove the "broken" pieces. ** ke4qqq: review stickster's renamed packages
This package has been build.
** ke4qqq will contact upstream authors of cc-licensed js by eow and see if relicensing can happen.
I contacted upstream - no response.
== Information from ke4qqq === Found yet another bundled library in Zikula - phpmenulayers. Fortunately this is already being packaged https://bugzilla.redhat.com/process_bug.cgi
However, phpmenulayers bundles the following library: http://pear.php.net/package/HTML_Template_PHPLIB/
We may want to jump on that (esp since there are some relatively automated spec building tools for pear packages.)
This has already been packaged, and is awaiting a review.
To my knowledge - everything not blocked on licensing has been approved except zikula-module-mediashare. This was waiting on a number of dependencies, (4 or 5, which have at least all been approved, if not already built) There may likewise be licensing issues, but if there are, we need to get them in front of upstream and/or fixed by us asap.
=== Stuff blocked by licensing: ===
- zikula-module-menutree
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=511998 Upstream said they were working on this, but I haven't heard anything in a while. Some of this is merely a set of icons, the one package with no licensing information is problematic and we might need to see what we can do with it/without it. Let's ping upstream again on this issue as well
- zikula-module-mediaattach
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506038 Ian has really not even started packaging this one because he found so many licensing issues. I've notified upstream, but we may need to see what we can do to purge some of this stuff.
- zikula-module-content
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 Lukas has this moving along - there is a licensing issue with lightboxXL. I fired off an email re: relicensing/dual licensing to lightboxXL's author on 22 June, but to date have received no response. It might help if a native spanish speaker sent an email explaining the situation, but it looks like this might have to get jettisoned which might involve patching source.
Paul located a possible replacement. We may be able to fix this ourselves and submit the fix upstream.
DISCUSS: next actions and plans to resolve these blockers
== Test Instance ==
- '''ACTIONS''': Need to set a date to template the conf files for
puppet and create package lists, etc.
== Project Management ==
- '''ACTIONS''': Poelcat to work on creating draft schedule by the first
part of next week and follow through on coordinating finalizing it
== Draft Zikula Schedule == --Promised skeleton is below... Poelstra needs detailed tasks from all the teams to fill in this schedule. Suggest doing this with Gobby (and possibly Fedora Talk) ASAP
- DISCUSS: set time and date using--http://whenisgood.net/RKQ8tE
Packaging Modules Tue 2009-06-10 ??? --when will we really be done?
Start Alpha Freeze Tue 2009-08-04 Tue 2009-08-04
Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-18 Tue 2009-08-18
Test Instance "Go Live" Tue 2009-08-25 Tue 2009-08-25
Performance Testing Wed 2009-08-26 Fri 2009-09-04
Final (Beta) Freeze Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22
Build Production Box ??? ???
Deploy Production Box ??? ???
Beta Release Public Availability Tue 2009-10-06 Tue 2009-10-06
Zikula "Go Live" for F12 Release ??? ???
GA Release Tue 2009-11-03 Tue 2009-11-03
== Next Meeting Date & Time ==
- Anyone heard from 'itbegins'?
- Next Wednesday @ 15:00 UTC ?
logistics mailing list logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/logistics
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 02:47:38PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote:
Zikula Meeting Agenda 2009-07-29 15:00 UTC
Sorry, meeting conflict and trip to SF simultaneously.
I don't know if Satya can make this meeting, but I was hoping to see her schedule for Beacon work integrated in with this rollout schedule.
Satya -- if you cannot make the Zikula meeting time, can you work with us via this list to get Beacon integrated with the schedule?
thx - Karsten
John Poelstra said the following on 07/28/2009 02:47 PM Pacific Time:
Zikula Meeting Agenda 2009-07-29 15:00 UTC
== Last Meeting ==
This meeting was cancelled because we did not have enough of the key people. I've attached a short log of the discussion that did take place.
I need the key people interested in making Zikula happen tell me what if anything we want to do before the next meeting. We still need to meet to discuss the schedule. I can't build it out without more input from everyone.
If you can help with the schedule, please indicate your availability here: http://whenisgood.net/RKQ8tE
Thanks, John
14:59 < poelcat> #startmeeting Zikula 14:59 < zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 29 14:59:47 2009 UTC. The chair is poelcat. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:59 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00 * poelcat knows that ke4qqq and Sparks can't come so I'm not sure how much there is going to be to discuss 15:00 < poelcat> is anyone else here to discuss zikula? 15:01 < stickster> I see that no one has arrived 15:01 * stickster sorry, was helping a friend with a bluez question 15:01 < stickster> poelcat: Is it just you and me here today? 15:01 < stickster> ianweller? 15:01 < ianweller> pong 15:01 * poelcat thinks it might be best to just call the meeting 15:02 < poelcat> but open to other suggestions 15:02 < stickster> Yeah, without ke4qqq and Sparks here we'll be suffering. 15:02 < ianweller> try pinging people? ;) 15:02 < stickster> ianweller: Those two folks already mentioned they can't make it in email to the list 15:02 < ianweller> yeah. 15:02 < poelcat> ianweller: that's like knocking on someone's door hoping that will make them come home ;-) 15:02 < ianweller> almost-shortest-meetinglog-ever 15:02 * onekopaka will be here for the fun of it. 15:02 * stickster notes that there's one thing we don't want to wait a week for, which is moving on with packages by stripping out problematic licensing stuff 15:03 < ianweller> poelcat: i do that all the time! 15:03 < stickster> I think that's best hashed out on the list than by just a couple people here. 15:03 * poelcat will wait 2 more minutes then call EOM 15:03 < stickster> poelcat: I think that's a good call. 15:03 * stickster mails the list with his concern 15:04 < onekopaka> this is almost like that one EPEL meeting then.. 15:05 < stickster> onekopaka: It happens from time to time. :-) Volunteers can't always be around on a schedule 15:06 * mchua pokes head in 15:06 < poelcat> #endmeeting 15:06 < zodbot> Meeting ended Wed Jul 29 15:06:20 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . 15:06 < zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-29/fedora-meeting.20... 15:06 < zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-29/fedora-meeting.20... 15:06 < onekopaka> stickster: yeah. 15:06 < zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-29/fedora-meeting.20... 15:06 < mchua> ...shoot. 15:06 < poelcat> mchua: hi 15:06 < mchua> poelcat: hey. sorry I missed the meeting 15:06 < poelcat> mchua: w/o the two key people we don't have a lot to discuss 15:06 < ricky> Darn, I missed it :-( 15:06 < mchua> 4am wakeup for 6am planeflight = Mel goes a little loopy on schedule... 15:07 < poelcat> if people have things we should discuss we can still meet 15:07 < poelcat> looking at the agenda... i'm not sure we have the right people to do that 15:07 * mchua hunts for link to agenda 15:07 * poelcat just didn't want to "have a meeting for the sake of having a meeting" 15:08 < stickster> I agree 15:08 * stickster is proposing to the list that we assume from here on out we are going to take necessary actions to resolve licensing ourselves wherever needed 15:09 < mchua> only question I had was whether there was a timeframe for when we might expect test and final instances up that Marketing can use for Fedora Insight 15:09 < ricky> If I did make the meeting, I only had two things that I think would be nice to have - a) Get the test instance into a shape that's slightly closer to what the final product might look like and b) Get the l10n team onto the test instance so that you guys can get started on translation workflow stuff ASAP 15:09 < mchua> (or if that's even the right question to be asking at this point in the zikula saga - I'm joining the logistics list now and need to read some archives, it would seem) 15:10 < mchua> then again, I'm also supposed to be asking stickster and ianweller about these things since they're the Marketing delegates, so all is good :) 15:11 * mchua is simultaneously trying to be a good delegator and catch up on an unexpectedly-acquired need to learn about the history of everything Marketing-related as fast as possible... 15:11 < stickster> I think the team assumed getting a running instance blocked on packaging. 15:12 < stickster> But I see that Toshio has mentioned that may not be a hard blocker, and that we simply need to make progress on fixing things like licensing problems as we go 15:12 < poelcat> ricky: if you have any suggestions for dates to add to the schedule around that, please reply to my email 15:13 * stickster spells it out on the list, maybe for his own sanity 15:13 * ricky isn't very aware of the deadlines involved here, but that'd definitely be nice to have somewhere before "get it into staging" in Infrastructure. 15:13 * ricky looks for the right mail 15:13 < stickster> There is a publictest instance up now 15:13 < abadger1999> stickster: Yeah -- on the publictest, it would be good to update to run with all the rpms we now have. 15:13 < abadger1999> That's the first step in getting it deployed to staging. 15:14 < abadger1999> poelcat: What information do you need from infrastructure WRT scheduling? 15:14 < ricky> poelcat: Sorry, what's the difference between "Alpha Public Availability" and "Test Instance 'Go Live'" ? 15:15 * quaid is lurking a bit now 15:15 < stickster> I think the Alpha public availability there means F12 Alpha, doesn't it? 15:15 < mchua> stickster: is the publictest instance stable enough for "marketing should start thinking about putting FI content up with News to try out how that workflow goes," or should we wait for the next iteration (is that staging?) 15:15 < onekopaka> how do you Zikula people get a staging instance and blog people don't? 15:15 < ricky> stickster: Ah, that clears it up, I was thinking about zikula, not Fedora 15:15 * mchua hunts for logistics list 15:16 < mchua> ahh, https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/logistics 15:16 < ricky> onekopaka: Did you guys need one? All you had to do was ask for a value1.stg to be built 15:16 < stickster> mchua: O! I'm sorry, I would have sent you that if I'd known you needed it 15:16 < abadger1999> s/staging/publictest/ ? 15:16 < poelcat> abadger1999: whatever you think are realistic dates 15:17 < stickster> mchua: Probably a good list to be on -- most cross-team initiatives will be coordinated on that list. 15:17 < ricky> One thing I wasn't quite clear about - will docs.fp.o be running entirely on this for F12, or will that be slightly later? 15:17 < onekopaka> ricky: I'm pretty sure we asked for one and it didn't get done. I am going to blame smooge. 15:17 < mchua> stickster: well technically I shouldn't *need* it, 'cause you and ianweller are hanging out both here and around Marketing as interfaces... but yeah, i should at least lurk 15:17 * mchua subscribeth 15:18 < stickster> mchua: lurking is good :-) 15:18 * mchua gets Yet More Email 15:18 < stickster> yay server-side filtering! 15:18 < mchua> stickster: I... may have to ask you about your setup for that someday soon. 15:19 * mchua copes with the "I was offline for 12 hours and got *how* many messages?" flood 15:19 < ianweller> mchua: i get too much email by going to sleep. i found the answer was "don't sleep" but that's problematic 15:20 * onekopaka wonders how many lists ianweller is on. 15:21 * stickster looks for publictest we're on now 15:21 < ricky> stickster: http://publictest15.fedoraproject.org/cms/ 15:21 < onekopaka> I knew it! 15! 15:21 < mchua> ianweller: I'm starting to get to the point where too much email comes in even when I'm awake. 15:21 < ricky> Sorry if this got lost in the scroll back - will this be running docs.fp.o completely for F12, or will that happen a bit later? 15:22 < stickster> ricky: Remains to be seen, but with every week that goes by I think we're looking at slipping that to F13 15:22 < stickster> Does anyone have the administration information for this test instance? 15:22 < ricky> Ah :-/ 15:23 * ricky looks forward to the old CVS website stuff going away :-) 15:23 < ricky> As does all of the docs team, I'm sure :-) 15:23 < stickster> Me too 15:23 < quaid> stickster: umm ... 15:23 < onekopaka> yay CVS dying! 15:23 < stickster> abadger1999: ricky: Do either of you have the admin info for that instance? 15:23 < quaid> docs.fp.o is not essential Infrastructure in the same way 15:23 < ricky> stickster: Nope, sorry :-/ ke4qqq might 15:24 < quaid> I think we need to just be a bit more risky here 15:24 < quaid> IMHO 15:24 < stickster> quaid: Care to spell that out? 15:24 < quaid> well, I have to look at the schedule more 15:24 < ricky> If it is going to be targetted for F12, one thing that I think is vital is for people from l10n to be involved in some of these discussions, and ideally for them and docs to test the translation workflow on the test instance. 15:24 < quaid> but why slip six months if we can't make it exactly within an F12 timeframe? 15:25 < quaid> ricky: sorry, what does L10n use? I thought they only needed Tx 15:25 < stickster> quaid: I didn't mean that F13 GA was a new target date, simply that we might have to do the changeover during the F13 cycle 15:26 < quaid> oh, crap, mmcgrath_away just said we'd put in on the regular app servers 15:26 < ricky> quaid: Maybe I'm confused about exactly how much of what's currently there will change. 15:26 < onekopaka> quaid: Tx only covers the actual website that's in the fedora-web repo, AFAIK 15:26 < stickster> It's kind of hypothetical now, anyway -- remains to be seen how close we are to actually being able to put up content and share package media on the instance. 15:26 < quaid> meaning we are beholden to infra freezes ... 15:26 < ricky> Will translators will be working 100% on po files for docbook pages like they do now? 15:26 < ricky> quaid: The freeze lifts 1 day after release though 15:27 < quaid> ricky: it's possible that we can have l10n handle pushing their own translations via Zikula, but not required to start. 15:27 < quaid> the trans is still PO via Tx 15:27 < stickster> quaid: +1. 15:27 * mchua wonders if Fedora Insight might make a nice lightweight test case for zikula, if the docs.fp.o stuff is a much bigger effort that will take a lot of time to become solid? 15:27 < ricky> Or will there be content not the current PO files on docs.fp.o that will need to be translated? 15:27 < quaid> ricky: ok, yes, we may want to translate our zikula instance itself, but that should probably be PO files via Tx, too, just as we do with fedora-web etc. 15:27 < mchua> (this is *not* a "work on marketing stuff instead of docs stuff!" note - but a "if marketing working here on marketing stuff will help docs stuff go faster, yay!" query.) 15:28 < stickster> mchua: You're right -- the docs.fp.o migration is not a necessity for Zikula to be up and running, but it's part of where we want to end up 15:28 < ricky> If it's still PO + Tx, will the po files still be created by xml2po from docbook files? 15:28 < stickster> Zikula is going to serve a bunch of needs. The first step is getting the platform actually up and functioning, with a few people who are versed in administering it. 15:28 < quaid> ricky: for docs, using publican + SCM of each upstream doc; not sure how zikula handles l10n 15:29 < ricky> Ah, OK. That makes me much better about l10n. 15:29 < stickster> Zikula doesn't yet have a full l10n capability but it's something that upstream is working on 15:29 < stickster> In fact, we may end up being able to test-bed that work 15:29 < ricky> So just out of curiousity: how will docs be uploaded to the site once it's running zikula? 15:29 < stickster> ricky: There are plugins for sharing media files of arbitrary types 15:29 < mchua> Ok. Since the Fedora Insight materials are going to be pretty time-sensitive, that means (1) we want to get Fedora Insight running asap, but also (2) we can reboot the infrastructure underneath it *quite* frequently and easily, if needed 15:29 < ricky> Will they still be uploaded as static files maybe in a special directory, or will it be in the zikula db? 15:29 < ricky> Ah, cool 15:30 < stickster> ricky: The former, I believe, and the db handles the metadata and page information surrounding the media 15:30 < ricky> So this is a lot less change in the docs workflow than I thought, which is good from the l10n standpoint :-) 15:30 < mchua> stickster: yeah, that's what i was thinking, whether FI makes a good zikula testbed so we make our mistakes there where it's more of a sandbox, and less mistakes on docs once docs is up and running 15:30 < quaid> ricky: +1 that was a goal, I would think 15:31 < ricky> +1 to what mchua is saying - new sites are far easier to test on 15:31 < ricky> Cool :-) 15:31 < ricky> So in terms of the docs project, is zikula mostly replacing the beats pages on the wiki as the step before docs are moved into publican? 15:31 < mchua> er, should we log this conversation? 15:32 < stickster> mchua: I have it logged locally on proxy and can publish it to the list in lieu of meetbot, which we stopped earlier when it didn't seem clear that anyone was showing up :-D 15:32 < stickster> ricky: to answer your question... 15:32 < quaid> ricky: perhaps over time, but for now, wiki beats are primary interface. 15:32 < stickster> ricky: Eventually I think so 15:33 < ricky> Ah, OK - so then you'll be able to take advantage of the workflow features and everything 15:33 < stickster> ricky: But a more immediate step is just to create a place where people will be able to click-to-install any of the hundreds of RPMs created by publican 15:33 < stickster> per-language, per-guide, per-Fedora-release 15:34 < ricky> One other side note that just came up - should fedora infrastructure be looking at deploying any of the docs sites via RPM instead of having a separate upload mechanism? 15:34 < ianweller> i loev how we're having a meeting anyway. :) 15:34 < ianweller> love* 15:34 * mchua echoes ianweller 15:34 < ianweller> i'll get a log from zodbot/ricky at the end of our "meeting" and email it. 15:35 < stickster> ricky: I'm not sure that creating an interim system that we know we're going to replace anyway is worth it, but that depends on how much busy work docs.fp.o is creating already 15:36 < ricky> Ah, that's true 15:38 * stickster checks one more time to make sure people understand that *we need more help with PHP stuff*. 15:39 < stickster> There is some elbow-grease work to be done here, and I'm not convinced that the few of us working on those problems can solve them all without help. 15:39 * stickster is certainly even lower than novice level on PHP 15:40 < stickster> Most of the remaining problems are related to stripping out pieces that are not licensed compatibly, and replacing them with something that fulfills the functional role but with a better license. 15:40 < stickster> For instance, a couple modules use the LightboxXL javascript, which is CC-2.5 licensed incompatibly with GPLv2+ 15:41 < stickster> (LightboxXL is one of those scripts that, when you click a picture, dims the rest of the web page and pops up a bigger or otherwise alternate version) 15:42 < ricky> By the way, a high five to the zikula guys for being so involved here. I also took a look at the zikula code, and it looks a lot cleaner than most of the PHP stuff I've seen :-) 15:44 < stickster> No doubt 15:44 < stickster> One thing I should add in that regard -- most modules are created by the Zikula community at large, and in general they are very high quality. There are simply some places where a full license audit has found problems. No different than when Spot did Fedora's package licensing audit some time ago. 15:46 < ricky> Ah. Hopefully zikula upstream is benefitting a good amount from the license scrutiny as well. It's not fun stuff, but it's great for all of that to be fixed. 15:49 * stickster thinks the ur-meeting has petered out and sets about getting the log together 15:50 < mchua> what needs to happen to have a FI-ready testbed up? 15:51 * mchua decides to ask on list instead 15:52 < ricky> OK, so are we done with this little meeting then :-) 15:52 < ricky> ianweller: Want logs to send? 15:52 < ianweller> ricky: that'd be lovely
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