Re: What if we moved to Discourse?

[Paul Frields]

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 12:24 PM Michael Scherer  wrote:
> Le mardi 02 juin 2020 à 10:20 -0400, Paul Frields a écrit :
> > I don't think anyone suggesting an additional service or cost. AIUI
> > there
> > is already a Fedora discussion server and we could use that if
> > desired.
>
> There is, but the server is hosted:
>
> $ host discussion.fedoraproject.org
> discussion.fedoraproject.org is an alias for fedoraproject.hosted-by-
> discourse.com.
>
> And the cost is based on monthly page view (among others):
> https://www.discourse.org/pricing
>
> So if we start to use it, we increase the page views, and we need to
> see if that's in the plan. I think it is, and I do not think this will
> be a problem in practice.

Ah! This is very useful info, thanks!

Paul

But as I was wrong for the magazine blog migration who did explode our
> view quotas on the 1st month because people are doing a good job
> pushing content, I try to learn from my optimism.
> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 6:42 AM Michael Scherer 
> > wrote:
> > > Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit :
> > > > So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people
> > > > for
> > > > the
> > > > move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> > > > undecided, too.
> > > >
> > > > Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels
> > > > more
> > > > inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> > > > mailing
> > > > lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
> > >
> > > Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much
> > > better
> > > for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit
> > > which
> > > permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go
> > > on
> > > a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due
> > > to
> > > network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client
> > > and
> > > access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to
> > > check
> > > several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise.
> > >
> > > However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so
> > > called
> > > "mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and while I didn't
> > > tried
> > > it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it
> > > wouldn't
> > > be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket.
> > > So
> > > it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over
> > > several
> > > discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer,
> > > but
> > > I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so
> > > we
> > > wouldn't lose much by a move).
> > >
> > > Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see
> > > whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough
> > > capacity
> > > on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not,
> > > see
> > > if we have budget for it.
> > >
> > > I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay
> > > 100
> > > US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$
> > > increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step,
> > > the
> > > next one is "call us":
> > >  https://www.discourse.org/pricing
> > >
> > > However, looking at
> > > https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it
> > > seems we
> > > are already in the upper tier.
> > > > Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels
> > > > and
> > > > are for
> > > > the change for this reason.
> > > >
> > > > Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or
> > > > proposing
> > > > other
> > > > self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> > > > Fedora
> > > > already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> > > > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new
> > > > accounts
> > > > involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just
> > > > using
> > > > what's
> > > > already available.
> > > >
> > > > And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving
> > > > the
> > > > problem
> > > > with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> > > > solving
> > > > the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the
> > > > discussions
> > > > into one
> > > > place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more.
> > > > And
> > > > yes,
> > > > we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> > > > easier to
> > > > just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the
> > > > idea to
> > > > create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that
> > > > just
> > > > the fact
> > > > of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving
> > > > to
> > > > Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> > > > accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
> > > >
> > > > I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> > > > reasonable
> > > > option we have. We're basically choosing between the following
> > > > three
> > > > solutions:
> > > >
> > > > 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion
> > > > on
> > > > the
> > > > list, tracking in Taiga.
> > > > 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in
> > > > Taiga.
> > > > 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> > > > discussion on
> > > > the list, and tracking in Taiga.
> > > >
> > > > Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> > > > proposals
> > > > or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a
> > > > place
> > > > that's
> > > > more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors,
> > > > and
> > > > easy to
> > > > link to.
> > > >
> > > > And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga
> > > > cards
> > > > from
> > > > Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> > > > discussion
> > > > on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> > > > quite low
> > > > as we have it now.
> > > >
> > > > So, to move forward, are there people strongly against?
> > > > Especially
> > > > those of
> > > > you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> > > > [e-mail]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik <[e-mail]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > > > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > > > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > > > > around those
> > > > > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > > > > repository, so
> > > > > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > > > > list, we
> > > > > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could
> > > > > > join
> > > > > > us and see
> > > > > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be able to
> > > > > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets
> > > > > > approved
> > > > > > we could
> > > > > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move
> > > > > > [5]
> > > > > > [6] and
> > > > > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > few years
> > > > > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do people think?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't
> > > > > participate
> > > > > that
> > > > > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Adam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > > > > [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > > > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > > > > [4]
>
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > > > > [5]
>
> https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > > > > [6]
>
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > > > Red Hat
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > >
> > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > Red Hat
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> > > --
> > > Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> > > Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure
> > >
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> --
> Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure