I don't think anyone suggesting an additional service or cost.
AIUI
there
is already a Fedora discussion server and we could use that if
desired.
So if we start to use it, we increase the page views, and we need to
see if that's in the plan. I think it is, and I do not think this will
be a problem in practice.
But as I was wrong for the magazine blog migration who did explode our
view quotas on the 1st month because people are doing a good job
pushing content, I try to learn from my optimism.
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 6:42 AM Michael Scherer
<mscherer(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit :
> > So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people
> > for
> > the
> > move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> > undecided, too.
> >
> > Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels
> > more
> > inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> > mailing
> > lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
>
> Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much
> better
> for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit
> which
> permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go
> on
> a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due
> to
> network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client
> and
> access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to
> check
> several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise.
>
> However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so
> called
> "mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and
while I didn't
> tried
> it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it
> wouldn't
> be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket.
> So
> it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over
> several
> discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer,
> but
> I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so
> we
> wouldn't lose much by a move).
>
>
>
> Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see
> whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough
> capacity
> on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not,
> see
> if we have budget for it.
>
> I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay
> 100
> US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$
> increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step,
> the
> next one is "call us":
>
https://www.discourse.org/pricing
>
>
> However, looking at
>
https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it
> seems we
> are already in the upper tier.
>
>
> > Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels
> > and
> > are for
> > the change for this reason.
> >
> > Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or
> > proposing
> > other
> > self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> > Fedora
> > already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> >
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new
> > accounts
> > involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just
> > using
> > what's
> > already available.
> >
> > And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving
> > the
> > problem
> > with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> > solving
> > the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the
> > discussions
> > into one
> > place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more.
> > And
> > yes,
> > we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> > easier to
> > just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the
> > idea to
> > create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that
> > just
> > the fact
> > of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving
> > to
> > Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> > accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
> >
> > I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> > reasonable
> > option we have. We're basically choosing between the following
> > three
> > solutions:
> >
> > 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion
> > on
> > the
> > list, tracking in Taiga.
> > 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in
> > Taiga.
> > 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> > discussion on
> > the list, and tracking in Taiga.
> >
> > Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> > proposals
> > or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a
> > place
> > that's
> > more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors,
> > and
> > easy to
> > link to.
> >
> > And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga
> > cards
> > from
> > Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> > discussion
> > on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> > quite low
> > as we have it now.
> >
> >
> > So, to move forward, are there people strongly against?
> > Especially
> > those of
> > you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> > cverna(a)fedoraproject.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik <asamalik(a)redhat.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > > >
> > > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > > >
> > > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > > around those
> > > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > > >
> > > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > > repository, so
> > > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > > list, we
> > > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could
> > > > join
> > > > us and see
> > > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people
> > > > would
> > > > be able to
> > > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets
> > > > approved
> > > > we could
> > > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > > >
> > > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move
> > > > [5]
> > > > [6] and
> > > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and
> > > > a
> > > > few years
> > > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find
> > > > it
> > > > interesting.
> > > >
> > > > What do people think?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't
> > > participate
> > > that
> > > much in this mailing list :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Adam
> > > >
> > > > [1]
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020...
> > > > [3]
https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > > [4]
> > > >
>
>
https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > > [5]
> > > >
https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > > [6]
> > > >
>
>
https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > > ---------------------------
> > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > Red Hat
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> > > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Adam Šamalík
> > ---------------------------
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > Red Hat
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> --
> Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure
>
>
>
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