What if we moved to Discourse?

[Adam Samalik]

What if we moved to Discourse [1]?

We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.

Right now we have various things in three different places:
1/ This mailing list for general discussion
2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow

Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
all the previous discussions, etc.

I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
easily link the thread from the Taiga card.

Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it interesting.

What do people think?

Cheers,
Adam

[1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
[2]
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
[3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
[4] https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
[5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
[6]
https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html

[Ryan Walter]

I agree that having 3 separate areas of communication is not ideal. If we can consolidate 2 of them into a fairly easy and approachable platform I would say we should consider it.
-------- Original Message --------
On May 27, 2020, 9:08 AM, Adam Samalik wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4] https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:15 AM Adam Samalik  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?

I have mixed feelings about this, but I think it would be for the best. I
would hate to miss something important but at the same time with the number
of upstreams I'm subscribed to the amount of email I have to deal with
every day is getting out of control.

Thanks,
Richard

[K. K.]

As someone who has used mailing lists very little (this is the only
mailing list I've ever used), getting on it was initially a fairly
confusing process itself. Switching to something else might attract more
people willing to contribute. I'd suggest taking a look at "Phabricator" as
a self-hosted open source solution for consideration but it might be an
overkill and would require more time to set up, test and adjust/configure
than the much better known tried-and-tested Discourse.

On Wed, 27 May 2020, 17:15 Adam Samalik,  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4]
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[SysOp]

I'd make an account if things were swapped over but I prefer email to discourse/forums for mailing list things.  Do like the idea for the topic proposals moving to something else though as it is now I don't think I ever check the separate place for them other than the KanBan that may just be me though.  Would it be possible to add another row to the cards there and have that be proposals/not confirmed topics and move everything over by one?  That would put most things in one spot with IRC/ mailing list being a discussion place for non spontaneous conversation.

On May 27, 2020 9:08:19 AM CDT, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4] https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Mehdi Haghgoo]

I have seen some communities use a combination of Slack and Discourse. As you said, Discourse is great in organizing and accessing posts. The current workflow for the magazine seems a bit overkill to me, but with discourse, I think the stuff would be done faster, as a central place to discuss the proposals and track the progress. - mehdi

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 19:34, K. K. wrote:     As someone who has used mailing lists very little (this is the only
mailing list I've ever used), getting on it was initially a fairly
confusing process itself. Switching to something else might attract more
people willing to contribute. I'd suggest taking a look at "Phabricator" as
a self-hosted open source solution for consideration but it might be an
overkill and would require more time to set up, test and adjust/configure
than the much better known tried-and-tested Discourse.

On Wed, 27 May 2020, 17:15 Adam Samalik,  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4]
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

_______________________________________________
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[John Paul Wohlschied]

I'm conflicted. Discourse is used by quite a few open-source projects and
is very easy to use. It's easier to use than the mailing list and it is
easier to search.

On the other hand, the mailing list has a certain charm to it.

Overall, it would be good to consolidate the places that writers and
editors have to look at.

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:15 AM Adam Samalik  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4]
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

Hello Adam, et al,

I definitely like the idea of consolidation for ease of tracking, which
was why I asked about Pagure plugins to Taiga after one of our other
Editorial meetings for the magazine. In my limited experience, I find
the Taiga board to be the most effective tool for articles specifically
being moved through the publishing steps. Having Pagure for the article
ideas as issues tracking, is on it's own fine but maybe magazine
article ideas are not like issues/feature requests. IDK. The
notifications I get from Taiga are handy, and informative, as is the
mailing list. But Pagure can be setup to notify you as well, and I only
recently turned on my notifications for the Fedora Magazine issue
tracker. Perhaps some of the more seasoned Editors could point out tips
and tricks we can use to create a must know FAQ for editors to follow
covering this topic. I still can't imagine it being more painful to do
some python programming to integrate the plugin from Pagure with Taiga,
than it would be to shift the process paradigm by the extent required
for moving to a forum based community discussion model for article idea
generation and then still not solve the broken link between the idea
and the spec card creation we face currently. Personally, I think
Pagure is fine, it is how we use it that determines our success with
it. 
So, from the community involvement POV, the Discourse Forum approach
would definitely open that up more to the general Fedora community,
which would be good for potential participation increase. I just don't
see how it solves the idea to spec link issue we face with
Pagure/Taiga. It only eliminates the mailing list as an idea voicing
medium for members of the community who may choose that method for
their own reasons. 
I'm not sold on the idea yet.

Jakfrost

On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 16:08 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around
> those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository,
> so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list,
> we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us
> and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be
> able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we
> could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6]
> and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few
> years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4] 
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to 
> [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: 
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Paul Frields]

* Is it possible to use standard email tools with Discourse? Last time I
was hearing about it, I thought it was.

* Was the problem with issues in Taiga the complexity? I looked at the
module for issues today and didn't think it compared so poorly with Pagure
in that respect. But there may have been other factors too.

Paul

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:15 AM Adam Samalik  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it

interesting.
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]

https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4]

https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

El mié, 27-05-2020 a las 19:13 -0400, Paul Frields escribió:
> Is it possible to use standard email tools with Discourse? Last time I
>
> was hearing about it, I thought it was.

Sorry for involve in the discussion but you can REPLY a TOPIC or POST vie E-mil on Discourse, you can get a badged 
for this actions.

TOPIC = Original Ask
POST = Replies of a TOPIC

Regards.,

El jue, 28-05-2020 a las 10:47 +0200, [e-mail] escribió:
> El mié, 27-05-2020 a las 19:13 -0400, Paul Frields escribió:
> > Is it possible to use standard email tools with Discourse? Last
> >
> > time Iwas hearing about it, I thought it was.
>
> Sorry for involve in the discussion but you can REPLY a TOPIC or POST
> vie E-mil on Discourse, you can get a badged for this actions.
> TOPIC = Original AskPOST = Replies of a TOPIC
> Regards.,

ohh. I forgot to say, you can RECEIVE and REPLY is you're tracking the
TOPIC:

-> You will see a count of new replies because you posted a reply to
this topic.

but another posibilites are Open:

https://meta.discourse.org/t/start-a-new-topic-via-email/62977

Regards.,

[Clement Verna]

On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> interesting.
>
> What do people think?

I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate that
much in this mailing list :-)
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4]
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Adam Samalik]

So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people for the
move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
undecided, too.

Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels more
inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about mailing
lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.

Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels and are for
the change for this reason.

Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or proposing other
self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because Fedora
already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new accounts
involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just using what's
already available.

And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving the problem
with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not solving
the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the discussions into one
place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more. And yes,
we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be easier to
just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the idea to
create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that just the fact
of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving to
Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.

I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best reasonable
option we have. We're basically choosing between the following three
solutions:

1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion on the
list, tracking in Taiga.
2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in Taiga.
3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and discussion on
the list, and tracking in Taiga.

Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it proposals
or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a place that's
more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors, and easy to
link to.

And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga cards from
Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had discussion
on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals quite low
as we have it now.

So, to move forward, are there people strongly against? Especially those of
you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna 
wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> >
> > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> >
> > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> >
> > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> > could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> > all the previous discussions, etc.
> >
> > I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> >
> > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> > interesting.
> >
> > What do people think?
>
> I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate that
> much in this mailing list :-)
> > Cheers,
> > Adam
> >
> > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > [2]
> >
> > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > [4]
> > https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > [6]
> > https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> >
> > --
> > Adam Šamalík
> >
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > Red Hat
> > _______________________________________________
> > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

Hello Adam,

I personally like Discourse, and think it is a good move to make the
discussion side of the magazine open up more. I was pointing out that
the move didn't solve the issue of, well using issues on Pagure to
track concept ideas or pitches. Perhaps a VCS approach is not meant for
magazine article workflow, but meh. 
So I am +1 for the #2 option with the proposal and discussion happening
in one location (Discourse) and a tool (Taiga) for tracking progress
through the pitch/write/publish cycle. This seems the most appropriate
approach.
I was also personally very reluctant to propose (another) bit of Fedora
move from Pagure use.

Regards,
Stephen

On Mon, 2020-06-01 at 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
> So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people for
> the
> move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> undecided, too.
>
> Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels more
> inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> mailing
> lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
>
> Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels and
> are for
> the change for this reason.
>
> Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or proposing
> other
> self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> Fedora
> already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new accounts
> involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just using
> what's
> already available.
>
> And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving the
> problem
> with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> solving
> the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the discussions
> into one
> place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more. And
> yes,
> we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> easier to
> just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the idea to
> create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that just
> the fact
> of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving to
> Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
>
> I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> reasonable
> option we have. We're basically choosing between the following three
> solutions:
>
> 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion on
> the
> list, tracking in Taiga.
> 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in Taiga.
> 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> discussion on
> the list, and tracking in Taiga.
>
> Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> proposals
> or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a place
> that's
> more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors, and
> easy to
> link to.
>
> And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga cards
> from
> Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> discussion
> on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> quite low
> as we have it now.
>
> So, to move forward, are there people strongly against? Especially
> those of
> you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> [e-mail]>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik 
> > wrote:
> > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > >
> > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > >
> > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > around those
> > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > >
> > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > repository, so
> > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > list, we
> > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could join
> > > us and see
> > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > >
> > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people would
> > > be able to
> > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved
> > > we could
> > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > >
> > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5]
> > > [6] and
> > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a
> > > few years
> > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> > > interesting.
> > >
> > > What do people think?
> >
> > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate
> > that
> > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > Cheers,
> > > Adam
> > >
> > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > [2]
> > >
> > > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > [4]
> > > https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > [5] 
> > > https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > [6]
> > > https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adam Šamalík
> > >
> > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > Red Hat
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to 
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > List Guidelines: 
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > List Archives:
> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to 
> [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: 
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[SysOp]

As one of the folks who was probably more on the negative side I'd still try it and was told there's a mailing list feature on discourse so it can be used similar to this if we want as users.  +1 from me for giving it a chance.

On June 1, 2020 3:45:21 AM CDT, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people for the
> move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> undecided, too.
>
> Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels more
> inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about mailing
> lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
>
> Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels and are for
> the change for this reason.
>
> Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or proposing other
> self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because Fedora
> already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new accounts
> involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just using what's
> already available.
>
> And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving the problem
> with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not solving
> the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the discussions into one
> place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more. And yes,
> we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be easier to
> just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the idea to
> create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that just the fact
> of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving to
> Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
>
> I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best reasonable
> option we have. We're basically choosing between the following three
> solutions:
>
> 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion on the
> list, tracking in Taiga.
> 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in Taiga.
> 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and discussion on
> the list, and tracking in Taiga.
>
> Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it proposals
> or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a place that's
> more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors, and easy to
> link to.
>
> And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga cards from
> Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had discussion
> on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals quite low
> as we have it now.
>
> So, to move forward, are there people strongly against? Especially those of
> you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna 
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > >
> > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > >
> > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > >
> > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > >
> > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > >
> > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> > > interesting.
> > >
> > > What do people think?
> >
> > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate that
> > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > Cheers,
> > > Adam
> > >
> > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > [2]
> > >
> > > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > [4]
> > > https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > [6]
> > > https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adam Šamalík
> > >
> > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > Red Hat
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > List Archives:
> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Silvia Sánchez]

Hello Adam &co,

It's true that having three ways of communication can be messy.  However,
I'm not sure Discourse is the best option.  Like others here, I'm very
conflicted on the issue, I can see why a change would be good but not sure
this is *the* change.
What I like about mailing lists is that they don't require me to install
anything extra.
Just my thought.

Kind regards,
Lailah

On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:16, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
>
> We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
>
> Right now we have various things in three different places:
> 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion around those
> 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
>
> Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure repository, so
> we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing list, we
> could link to individual threads easily, new members could join us and see
> all the previous discussions, etc.
>
> I especially like this for article proposals. More people would be able to
> see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved we could
> easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
>
> Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] [6] and
> their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a few years
> back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> interesting.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
> [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> [4]
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> [5] https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> [6]
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Michael Scherer]

Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit :
> So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people for
> the
> move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> undecided, too.
>
> Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels more
> inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> mailing
> lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.

Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much better
for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit which
permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go on
a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due to
network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client and
access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to check
several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise.

However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so called
"mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and while I didn't tried
it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it wouldn't
be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket. So
it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over several
discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer, but
I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so we
wouldn't lose much by a move).

Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see
whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough capacity
on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not, see
if we have budget for it.

I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay 100
US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$
increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step, the
next one is "call us":
 https://www.discourse.org/pricing

However, looking at 
https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it seems we
are already in the upper tier.
> Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels and
> are for
> the change for this reason.
>
> Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or proposing
> other
> self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> Fedora
> already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new accounts
> involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just using
> what's
> already available.
>
> And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving the
> problem
> with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> solving
> the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the discussions
> into one
> place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more. And
> yes,
> we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> easier to
> just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the idea to
> create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that just
> the fact
> of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving to
> Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
>
> I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> reasonable
> option we have. We're basically choosing between the following three
> solutions:
>
> 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion on
> the
> list, tracking in Taiga.
> 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in Taiga.
> 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> discussion on
> the list, and tracking in Taiga.
>
> Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> proposals
> or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a place
> that's
> more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors, and
> easy to
> link to.
>
> And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga cards
> from
> Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> discussion
> on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> quite low
> as we have it now.
>
> So, to move forward, are there people strongly against? Especially
> those of
> you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> [e-mail]>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik 
> > wrote:
> > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > >
> > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > >
> > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > around those
> > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > >
> > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > repository, so
> > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > list, we
> > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could join
> > > us and see
> > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > >
> > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people would
> > > be able to
> > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved
> > > we could
> > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > >
> > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5]
> > > [6] and
> > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a
> > > few years
> > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> > > interesting.
> > >
> > > What do people think?
> >
> > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate
> > that
> > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > Cheers,
> > > Adam
> > >
> > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > [2]
> > >
> > > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > [4]
> > > https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > [5] 
> > > https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > [6]
> > > https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adam Šamalík
> > >
> > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > Red Hat
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to 
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > List Guidelines: 
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > List Archives:
> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Senior Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to 
> [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: 
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Paul Frields]

I don't think anyone suggesting an additional service or cost. AIUI there
is already a Fedora discussion server and we could use that if desired.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 6:42 AM Michael Scherer  wrote:
> Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit :
> > So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people for
> > the
> > move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> > undecided, too.
> >
> > Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels more
> > inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> > mailing
> > lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
>
> Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much better
> for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit which
> permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go on
> a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due to
> network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client and
> access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to check
> several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise.
>
> However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so called
> "mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and while I didn't tried
> it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it wouldn't
> be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket. So
> it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over several
> discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer, but
> I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so we
> wouldn't lose much by a move).
>
> Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see
> whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough capacity
> on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not, see
> if we have budget for it.
>
> I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay 100
> US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$
> increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step, the
> next one is "call us":
>  https://www.discourse.org/pricing
>
> However, looking at
> https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it seems we
> are already in the upper tier.
> > Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels and
> > are for
> > the change for this reason.
> >
> > Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or proposing
> > other
> > self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> > Fedora
> > already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new accounts
> > involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just using
> > what's
> > already available.
> >
> > And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving the
> > problem
> > with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> > solving
> > the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the discussions
> > into one
> > place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more. And
> > yes,
> > we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> > easier to
> > just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the idea to
> > create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that just
> > the fact
> > of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving to
> > Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> > accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
> >
> > I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> > reasonable
> > option we have. We're basically choosing between the following three
> > solutions:
> >
> > 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion on
> > the
> > list, tracking in Taiga.
> > 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in Taiga.
> > 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> > discussion on
> > the list, and tracking in Taiga.
> >
> > Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> > proposals
> > or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a place
> > that's
> > more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors, and
> > easy to
> > link to.
> >
> > And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga cards
> > from
> > Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> > discussion
> > on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> > quite low
> > as we have it now.
> >
> > So, to move forward, are there people strongly against? Especially
> > those of
> > you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> > [e-mail]>
> > wrote:
> > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik 
> > > wrote:
> > > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > > >
> > > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > > >
> > > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > > around those
> > > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > > >
> > > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > > repository, so
> > > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > > list, we
> > > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could join
> > > > us and see
> > > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people would
> > > > be able to
> > > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved
> > > > we could
> > > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > > >
> > > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5]
> > > > [6] and
> > > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a
> > > > few years
> > > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it
> > > > interesting.
> > > >
> > > > What do people think?
> > >
> > > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate
> > > that
> > > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Adam
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > > [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > > [4]
>
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > > [5]
> > > > https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > > [6]
>
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > >
> > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > Red Hat
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > > List Guidelines:
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > > List Archives:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Adam Šamalík
> >
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > Red Hat
> > _______________________________________________
> > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
>
> Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure
>
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Michael Scherer]

Le mardi 02 juin 2020 à 10:20 -0400, Paul Frields a écrit :
> I don't think anyone suggesting an additional service or cost. AIUI
> there
> is already a Fedora discussion server and we could use that if
> desired.

There is, but the server is hosted:

$ host discussion.fedoraproject.org
discussion.fedoraproject.org is an alias for fedoraproject.hosted-by-
discourse.com.

And the cost is based on monthly page view (among others):
https://www.discourse.org/pricing

So if we start to use it, we increase the page views, and we need to
see if that's in the plan. I think it is, and I do not think this will
be a problem in practice.

But as I was wrong for the magazine blog migration who did explode our
view quotas on the 1st month because people are doing a good job
pushing content, I try to learn from my optimism.
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 6:42 AM Michael Scherer 
> wrote:
> > Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit :
> > > So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people
> > > for
> > > the
> > > move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> > > undecided, too.
> > >
> > > Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels
> > > more
> > > inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> > > mailing
> > > lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
> >
> > Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much
> > better
> > for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit
> > which
> > permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go
> > on
> > a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due
> > to
> > network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client
> > and
> > access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to
> > check
> > several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise.
> >
> > However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so
> > called
> > "mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and while I didn't
> > tried
> > it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it
> > wouldn't
> > be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket.
> > So
> > it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over
> > several
> > discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer,
> > but
> > I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so
> > we
> > wouldn't lose much by a move).
> >
> > Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see
> > whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough
> > capacity
> > on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not,
> > see
> > if we have budget for it.
> >
> > I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay
> > 100
> > US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$
> > increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step,
> > the
> > next one is "call us":
> >  https://www.discourse.org/pricing
> >
> > However, looking at
> > https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it
> > seems we
> > are already in the upper tier.
> > > Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels
> > > and
> > > are for
> > > the change for this reason.
> > >
> > > Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or
> > > proposing
> > > other
> > > self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> > > Fedora
> > > already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> > > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new
> > > accounts
> > > involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just
> > > using
> > > what's
> > > already available.
> > >
> > > And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving
> > > the
> > > problem
> > > with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> > > solving
> > > the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the
> > > discussions
> > > into one
> > > place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more.
> > > And
> > > yes,
> > > we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> > > easier to
> > > just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the
> > > idea to
> > > create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that
> > > just
> > > the fact
> > > of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving
> > > to
> > > Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> > > accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
> > >
> > > I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> > > reasonable
> > > option we have. We're basically choosing between the following
> > > three
> > > solutions:
> > >
> > > 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion
> > > on
> > > the
> > > list, tracking in Taiga.
> > > 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in
> > > Taiga.
> > > 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> > > discussion on
> > > the list, and tracking in Taiga.
> > >
> > > Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> > > proposals
> > > or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a
> > > place
> > > that's
> > > more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors,
> > > and
> > > easy to
> > > link to.
> > >
> > > And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga
> > > cards
> > > from
> > > Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> > > discussion
> > > on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> > > quite low
> > > as we have it now.
> > >
> > > So, to move forward, are there people strongly against?
> > > Especially
> > > those of
> > > you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> > > [e-mail]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik <[e-mail]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > > > >
> > > > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > > > >
> > > > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > > > around those
> > > > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > > > >
> > > > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > > > repository, so
> > > > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > > > list, we
> > > > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could
> > > > > join
> > > > > us and see
> > > > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people
> > > > > would
> > > > > be able to
> > > > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets
> > > > > approved
> > > > > we could
> > > > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > > > >
> > > > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move
> > > > > [5]
> > > > > [6] and
> > > > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and
> > > > > a
> > > > > few years
> > > > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find
> > > > > it
> > > > > interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do people think?
> > > >
> > > > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't
> > > > participate
> > > > that
> > > > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Adam
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > > > [2]
> >
> > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > > > [4]
> >
> > https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > > > [5]
> > > > > https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > > > [6]
> >
> > https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > > > > --
> > > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > > >
> > > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > > Red Hat
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- 
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > > > List Guidelines:
> > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > > > List Archives:
> >
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adam Šamalík
> > >
> > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > Red Hat
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > List Guidelines:
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
> >
> > Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> > Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure
> >
> > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to 
> > [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: 
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Paul Frields]

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 12:24 PM Michael Scherer  wrote:
> Le mardi 02 juin 2020 à 10:20 -0400, Paul Frields a écrit :
> > I don't think anyone suggesting an additional service or cost. AIUI
> > there
> > is already a Fedora discussion server and we could use that if
> > desired.
>
> There is, but the server is hosted:
>
> $ host discussion.fedoraproject.org
> discussion.fedoraproject.org is an alias for fedoraproject.hosted-by-
> discourse.com.
>
> And the cost is based on monthly page view (among others):
> https://www.discourse.org/pricing
>
> So if we start to use it, we increase the page views, and we need to
> see if that's in the plan. I think it is, and I do not think this will
> be a problem in practice.

Ah! This is very useful info, thanks!

Paul

But as I was wrong for the magazine blog migration who did explode our
> view quotas on the 1st month because people are doing a good job
> pushing content, I try to learn from my optimism.
> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 6:42 AM Michael Scherer 
> > wrote:
> > > Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit :
> > > > So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people
> > > > for
> > > > the
> > > > move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or
> > > > undecided, too.
> > > >
> > > > Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels
> > > > more
> > > > inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about
> > > > mailing
> > > > lists being seen as confusing or even archaic.
> > >
> > > Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much
> > > better
> > > for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit
> > > which
> > > permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go
> > > on
> > > a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due
> > > to
> > > network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client
> > > and
> > > access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to
> > > check
> > > several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise.
> > >
> > > However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so
> > > called
> > > "mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and while I didn't
> > > tried
> > > it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it
> > > wouldn't
> > > be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket.
> > > So
> > > it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over
> > > several
> > > discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer,
> > > but
> > > I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so
> > > we
> > > wouldn't lose much by a move).
> > >
> > > Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see
> > > whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough
> > > capacity
> > > on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not,
> > > see
> > > if we have budget for it.
> > >
> > > I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay
> > > 100
> > > US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$
> > > increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step,
> > > the
> > > next one is "call us":
> > >  https://www.discourse.org/pricing
> > >
> > > However, looking at
> > > https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it
> > > seems we
> > > are already in the upper tier.
> > > > Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels
> > > > and
> > > > are for
> > > > the change for this reason.
> > > >
> > > > Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or
> > > > proposing
> > > > other
> > > > self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because
> > > > Fedora
> > > > already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system:
> > > > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new
> > > > accounts
> > > > involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just
> > > > using
> > > > what's
> > > > already available.
> > > >
> > > > And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving
> > > > the
> > > > problem
> > > > with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not
> > > > solving
> > > > the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the
> > > > discussions
> > > > into one
> > > > place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more.
> > > > And
> > > > yes,
> > > > we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be
> > > > easier to
> > > > just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the
> > > > idea to
> > > > create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that
> > > > just
> > > > the fact
> > > > of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving
> > > > to
> > > > Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the
> > > > accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion.
> > > >
> > > > I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best
> > > > reasonable
> > > > option we have. We're basically choosing between the following
> > > > three
> > > > solutions:
> > > >
> > > > 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion
> > > > on
> > > > the
> > > > list, tracking in Taiga.
> > > > 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in
> > > > Taiga.
> > > > 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and
> > > > discussion on
> > > > the list, and tracking in Taiga.
> > > >
> > > > Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it
> > > > proposals
> > > > or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a
> > > > place
> > > > that's
> > > > more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors,
> > > > and
> > > > easy to
> > > > link to.
> > > >
> > > > And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga
> > > > cards
> > > > from
> > > > Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had
> > > > discussion
> > > > on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals
> > > > quite low
> > > > as we have it now.
> > > >
> > > > So, to move forward, are there people strongly against?
> > > > Especially
> > > > those of
> > > > you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot?
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna <
> > > > [e-mail]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik <[e-mail]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right now we have various things in three different places:
> > > > > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion
> > > > > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion
> > > > > > around those
> > > > > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure
> > > > > > repository, so
> > > > > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing
> > > > > > list, we
> > > > > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could
> > > > > > join
> > > > > > us and see
> > > > > > all the previous discussions, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be able to
> > > > > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets
> > > > > > approved
> > > > > > we could
> > > > > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move
> > > > > > [5]
> > > > > > [6] and
> > > > > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > few years
> > > > > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do people think?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't
> > > > > participate
> > > > > that
> > > > > much in this mailing list :-)
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Adam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
> > > > > > [2]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05...
> > > > > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
> > > > > > [4]
>
> https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban
> > > > > > [5]
>
> https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html
> > > > > > [6]
>
> https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > > > Red Hat
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Fedora Magazine mailing list --
> > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > > > > List Guidelines:
> > > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > > > > List Archives:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Šamalík
> > > >
> > > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > > Red Hat
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > > List Guidelines:
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > > List Archives:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
> > > --
> > > Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> > > Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure
> > >
> > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > > List Guidelines:
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > List Archives:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...
> > >
>
> --
> Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él
> Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure

[Miro Hrončok]

On 27. 05. 20 16:08, Adam Samalik wrote:
> What do people think?

I am subscribed on this list and I occasionally scan the subjects with my eyes 
here for anything interesting and/or Python related.

If this moves to Discourse I will stop doing that. That is obviously not a big 
deal breaker, but I just wanted to let you know about this -- I assume I am not 
the only one of the Fedora contributors who prefer to use a mailing list.

Fw: What if we moved to Discourse?

Indeed Miro, the problem mailing lists have is that they are a bit "old skool" they send the information out  to everyone who subscribed to them (imagine that) and you can choose to read it or not. However  folk are under the impression  that if you move  to XYZ platform that magic happens and you suddenly get much more "discourse"!!!Generally this seem s the opposite and they then die on the vine because people cant be arsed to move to the platform XYZ and this is their chance to leave quietly.
I must say I joined the list under the impression I would contribute an article or two however I find many times more emails navel gazing about stuff like this rather than constructive talk. This is to the extent I've largely stopped reading all the mail, I'm assuming this is counter to the aim!JA

----- Forwarded message ----- From: Miro Hrončok To: "[e-mail]" Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020, 13:40:21 BSTSubject: Re: What if we moved to Discourse?
 On 27. 05. 20 16:08, Adam Samalik wrote:
> What do people think?

I am subscribed on this list and I occasionally scan the subjects with my eyes 
here for anything interesting and/or Python related.

If this moves to Discourse I will stop doing that. That is obviously not a big 
deal breaker, but I just wanted to let you know about this -- I assume I am not 
the only one of the Fedora contributors who prefer to use a mailing list.

[John Paul Wohlschied]

A year ago, the Solus Project switched to a forum software named Flarum (
https://flarum.org/ ). That might be a better alternative, Just a thought.

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 8:40 AM Miro Hrončok  wrote:
> On 27. 05. 20 16:08, Adam Samalik wrote:
> > What do people think?
>
> I am subscribed on this list and I occasionally scan the subjects with my
> eyes
> here for anything interesting and/or Python related.
>
> If this moves to Discourse I will stop doing that. That is obviously not a
> big
> deal breaker, but I just wanted to let you know about this -- I assume I
> am not
> the only one of the Fedora contributors who prefer to use a mailing list.
>
> --
> Miro Hrončok
> --
> Phone: [phone]
> IRC: mhroncok
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...

[Adam Samalik]

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 2:40 PM Miro Hrončok  wrote:
> On 27. 05. 20 16:08, Adam Samalik wrote:
> > What do people think?
>
> I am subscribed on this list and I occasionally scan the subjects with my
> eyes
> here for anything interesting and/or Python related.
>
> If this moves to Discourse I will stop doing that. That is obviously not a
> big
> deal breaker, but I just wanted to let you know about this -- I assume I
> am not
> the only one of the Fedora contributors who prefer to use a mailing list.

Thanks for this note. Just to make sure, you're probably already missing a
lot of stuff,
because new articles are discussed outside of this list anyway:
https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues
... which is the problem I'm trying to solve here.

With this move, everything will be in one place at least.
> --
> Miro Hrončok
> --
> Phone: [phone]
> IRC: mhroncok
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o...