Recently I posted on my blog, a challenge. How can Fedora be BETTER
than MAC OS X? I know that the MAC is the best OS out there.
Microsoft is ripping off OS X with
Vista which is not doing well in sales. Thanks to the bad coding,
overdemanding system requirements, and a movement called LINUX! So
how can we Fedora Fans/Users/Developers LURE the frustrated Vista
Users and people who don't use a computer to try out Fedora. A
Campaign needs to be set up where people reach out to Media Outlets
via online and postal mail telling people, there is an ALTERNATIVE to
both Vista AND Mac! That is FEDORA! This is the idea, what should be
done about it?
Mark McLaughlin (linuxglobe.wordpress.com)
So I posted some of the recent mockups I did for spins.fpo  and I got
a lot of food for the diagram at the top of the front page:
====== from anonymous:
"Why not just use words that have some meaning that people will
understand? (Is there some association I'm supposed to have for "Spin"?)
"What's the relationship between these "Official Spins"? Does the
"Electronics Lab" not have a desktop? Why would I not just get the
"Official Desktop Spin" and install the electronics programs I need?
(I've never found a Linux distro set-of-programs like this that was at
all useful. Nobody uses all the Electronics programs in Fedora. People
use one or two, along with desktop apps, and some developer tools, and
"Who's the intended audience for each half of this? Developers?
Electronics developers with big headphones? My grandparents?
I'm more confused about Fedora than I was 5 minutes ago. :/"
======= from Jef:
"I don't think the graphic banner really explains what a spin is.
It explains the process of putting the spin together, but I don't really
think it illustrates what a spin is in terms of its usefulness as a
To me, the most salient reason for users to care about spins has to be
the live nature of them. Collections of software put together with love
and care and a sense of style so that you can taste a gourmet selection
from the Fedora software buffet, without "installing" the operating
system. Spins are gourmet appetizers designed to make you hungry for
"To me, each Spin is a hand passed platter of hors'odors, laid out on
the serving platter in a way so that that platter is enticing to
particular subsets of party goers who've just walled into the front door
of Fedora's Rocking Global Party.
"And I'm just not sure that the graphic banner captures the fundamental
appetizing nature of Spins. "
So I think to address this:
1) The graphic we have now should be the banner for the 'make your own
spin' page (as of yet unmocked up but referenced in the mocks. it
explains the process well but does not explain what a spin is.
2) We need to come up with a better graphic for the front page to
explain what a spin is. Jef came up with a great metaphor in his post -
chefs. One idea for the graphic based on that:
'spins are customized versions of fedora lovingly put together by
community members to appeal to specific tastes" and we could show 4
different people in different chefs outfits, each with a fedora cd on a
silver platter with some paraphenalia related to the spin's domain and a
little notecard on the platter saying 'electronics studio spin' (with
wires and circuit boards on the platter) 'art studio spin' (with paint
and brushes on the platter), etc.
Another idea to keep more with the "spins" "remix" and "DJ" kind of
'spins are like a custom mix tape or DJ set of software available in
fedora, lovingly remixed and put together by community members to appeal
to specific tastes' and have 3-4 djs with headphones on at the
turntables, with music notes and floating paraphenalia associated with
the spin, maybe a banner hanging down from each dj table stating what
spin it is.
What do you folks think? Any other ideas for illustrating quickly what a
Fedora spin is?
I guess / hope some of you now me. For those on this list who don't here is a
short intro I'm an active Fedora contributer, maintaining over 150 packages.
Currently I'm working on integrating all of the Planet CCRMA audio packages
I'm also a lecturer in computer science for a Dutch University. In our Computer
Science we do a lot of things with Free Software and specifically with Fedora.
In our last year students do 2 large projects of a 1/2 year each, and I'm one
of the teachers who give assignments for these projects. Thus we do many Fedora
(and other free software) related projects. The autodownloader package used by
quake3, vavoom and others for example is created by our students. So are the
avr microprocessor and gp2x handheld console toolchain packages which are in
Unfortunately we are currently experiencing a lack of students interested in
Computer Science in the Netherlands. Therefore on our next open university day
we are going to have a big Free Software booth to promote all the open source
work we do, as this is one of the most prominent things we do which clearly
differentiates us from other Computer Science studies in the surrounding area.
Since we do a lot with and somethings for Fedora we would also like to give
Fedora a prominent place there, so I'm looking for things like T-shirts, but
also things like maybe a big blue flag with the Fedora logo on it etc. I know
the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions:
1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this?
2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost?
Many Thanks & Regards,
< mether> ok
< mether> so we can start the meeting now
< jmbuser_> JohnBabich
< mether> RahulSundaram
< Strikeforce> Up to you guys just thought I was late or something :)
< mether> no we have been starting slowly so that people can join in
< Strikeforce> no worries
< mether> who else is around?
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< mether> i was hoping mizmo would be
< mether> but she seems to be not available in irc yet
< mether> here is the list of things I think we should be doing for
the Fedora 8 release
< mether> Artwork - Labels, banners, promos that we can run on the website etc
< mether> Identify which features to highlight - We have a good number
of them and we should figure out any two or three features that are
< mether> and promote them specifically
< Strikeforce> When you say artwork you mean in F8 or on the website?
same for Labels, Banners, promos.
< mether> in the website
< mether> not within the distribution
< mether> that work is already done
< mether> the organized focus on interviewing developers going through
all the Fedora 8 features isn't over yet but it is clearly very
< mether> pretty much of them have been referred to from many websites
including digg, lwn.net, osnews.com. lxer etc
< mether> except the first one where we didnt highlight digg properly
all of them got several hundreds digg's and hit the front page
* couftunes in
< mether> the website needs some clean up
< mether> especially on the download page
< mether> and Mo has been working on designing the spins section
< mether> we will have http://spins.fedoraproject.org shortly
< mether> which will explain what a spin is, list out all the
different spins of Fedora, identify how to do your own custom spins
< mether> check out http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47056.html for that
< mether> http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47315.html
< couf> download page is being redsigned as well, see
an example idea
< mether> i think we should look closely
< mether> at what OpenSUSE and Ubuntu is doing in this space
< mether> I find a list of links to be overwhelming compared to what
they have done
< Strikeforce> Ubuntu has the basic Gnome/KDE and XFCE and then a server version
< Strikeforce> x86 and x86_64
< Strikeforce> so they would have 8 downloads
< Strikeforce> maybe if it started with gnome -> x86 or x86_64 then the links
< mether> we have a choice of spins, dvd or cd. arch, installation methods
< mether> I think http://software.opensuse.org/ is pretty neat
< Strikeforce> I would have to agree
< mether> One thing that we one additional choice that we need to
figure how we can present well
< mether> is the differentiation between
< mether> official and custom spins
< Strikeforce> Should we link them to the front page?
< mether> I think what we need to do
< Strikeforce> Would it not be better to say see what the community is
doing -> and point them that way
< mether> is list only the official spins in the front page
< mether> and link to http://spins.fedoraproject.org
< mether> for more
< mether> front page as in the download page
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< couf> mether: +1
< mether> if we do it well
< mether> we don't have to worry about pushing in whatever spins that come up
< MrTom> 'Hi, sorry for being VERY late)
< mether> I am working on a games, xfce and minimalistic spin
< mether> so I have more than a passive interest in this
< mether> MrTom: hi
< mether> welcome
< couf> so we have the official spins on download + a "interested in a
Fedora remix -> check spins.fp.o" link
< mether> MrTom: http://pastebin.ca/735157 for you to catch up to
< MrTom> thanks mether
< Strikeforce> mether: +1
< mether> couf: right. that's what I think we should do anyway
< mether> I have submitted a request to infrastructure team
< mether> to setup a news site at news.fedoraproject.org
< mether> it might only be launched after Fedora 8 but it will be a
important medium for highlighting the work that goes on into Fedora
and getting some feedback early in the development process
< Strikeforce> +1 again
< Strikeforce> Was going to bring that up :)
< mether> I am an editor for Fedora Weekly News and Fedora Release
Notes and a beat writer for the Ask Fedora and Overview beats
< mether> all those are part of our broad marketing efforts too
< mether> Infrastructure request is detailed at
< mether> if you think I have missed out any details in there, drop
comments in that request or let me know
< mether> everyone who has a Fedora Account can just post comments right away
< couf> mether: you see news.fp.o as a replacement for what was going
on at fedoranews.org?
< mether> The overview section is at
< mether> yes
< mether> fedoranews.org would ideally redirect to news.fp.o
< mether> the weekly news is already integrated with the Fedora website
< couf> right, then we should get tchung on that ticket
< mether> I have posted to fedora weekly news
< mether> and discussed this extensively
< mether> with tchung both on and offlist
< couf> ah okay, cool
< mether> so he is already well aware
< mether> fedora news list for more details
< Strikeforce> Should f.o offer howto's specific to fedora?
< mether> not sure what you mean by that?
< Strikeforce> Well there seem to be a lot of questions on equivalents
and what to install what not to install. Generally there are websites
that guide people yet we seem to lack some of that documentation.
< Strikeforce> equivalents = xmms / winamp type of thing
< mether> The only reason we lack any published documents that we need to have
< mether> is lack of contributors getting involved
< mether> other than that, we only cover what we directly include
< Strikeforce> I know with the wiki I created based on ubuntuguide is
getting a heap of hits for some really basic information
< mether> there isn't any reason we couldn't have more information on the wiki
< mether> published documentation at docs.fp.o has the advantage
< mether> that it well translated
< mether> and more organized
< mether> but wiki can be used to coordinate that effort and generally
used as a sandbox
< mether> some short howto's can remain in the wiki itself
< mether> one example would be http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScreenCasting
< mether> if you prefer the wiki, just write down the content there
and anyone interested in organizing it more and publishing it can pick
it up from there
< couf> right, we might want to add a howto-section to docs.fp.o
< Strikeforce> I didn't know about docs.fp.o can we link that to the
front page. Is there also a way to get feedback to fedora-docs on what
users are struggling with?
< mether> its already there in the front page
< mether> for a few months now
< mether> ever since we launched the new static website
< Strikeforce> ahh mine goes straight to the wiki thats why. My bad.
< mether> posting to fedora-docs list or better yet offering to help
would be nice
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< mether> Fedora Documentation team is already aware that we are
missing documentation but that won't magically appear without people
spending time on it
< JonRob> yeah docs need all the volunteers they can get!
< Strikeforce> I write little howto's so might do that since I'd be
adding them to my site as well as fedora.
< JonRob> (hey all)
< mether> JonRob: hi
< Strikeforce> JonRob: hi
< mether> I am not much of a marketing expert so I have been noting
down details on what Red Hat did with the RHEL 5 launch and learning
< couf> Strikeforce: drop a note to fedora-docs and/or join in the
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< Strikeforce> That website that you emailed to marketing was an
interesting read. I think it'll help in providing focus.
< mether> which website?
< Strikeforce> Is there a way that we can get people's ideas to the
< mether> depending on what this is
< mether> different sub project mailing lists or bugzilla would be avenues
< mether> for specific things we need feedback on
< mether> we have been running surveys before
< mether> the results are available in the wiki
< mether> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Surveys
< Strikeforce> Could it be something we link with fedoraforum to get
the people that don't participate in mailling lists
< mether> as you can note
< mether> its been a while
< mether> so we might run it once more shortly after
< mether> Fedora 8 launch
< mether> I think we should do that
< mether> the forum, irc etc is linked from
< Strikeforce> I would like a list of areas where people struggle
"website, marketing, docs" a range of stuff that we can allocate
< mether> which again is linked from the front page
< mether> like i said we could run a generic survey
< Strikeforce> Try to understand where our 'customers' find frustration
< mether> do you have other ideas?
< Strikeforce> One question
< Strikeforce> Is it illegal in the USA to change an mp3 -> ogg?
< Strikeforce> Since you can buy mp3's online from vendors
< mether> it isn't illegal
< mether> but you need a encoder and a decoder
< mether> installed
< mether> to do that
< Strikeforce> Fedora don't offer that?
< mether> and doing such kind of media decoding
< mether> from one lozzy format to another
< mether> is going to result in loss of quality
< mether> we can't offer either by default, no
< Strikeforce> Trying to come up with ideas on how to combat the mp3 issue
< mether> are you aware of codec buddy?
< Strikeforce> Yeah
< mether> i think it solves that problem
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< Strikeforce> Yeah it does definitely
< mether> and we are working with Red Hat Legal to potentially link to rpmfusion
< mether> as a alternative to Fluendo codecs
< mether> for users from regions that don't enforce software patents
< mether> anything else that we need to look at specifically for Fedora 8?
< Strikeforce> Are we able to get numbers of installations to see if
we are marketing well enough and graph it?
< mether> yes that is ongoing work at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics
< mether> and we are discussing with other distributions to adopt smolt
< mether> if they do that, it would be even more helpful
< mether> towards understanding users
< mether> and helping solve some of the problems
< mether> in addition to merely tracking some metrics
< Strikeforce> I agree.
< mether> OpenSUSE 10.3 already includes Smolt
< mether> and they have been evaluating integration by default
< mether> we are also discussing it with Mandriva and Ubuntu
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< Strikeforce> That's good to hear.
< mether> if you have contacts in other distributions
< mether> talk to them
< mether> there is a lot of development coordination that is possible too
< mether> system-config-printer is included by default in the upcoming
Ubuntu version for example
< mether> JonRob: still there?
< Strikeforce> That's good to hear.
< jmbuser_> +1
< mether> we are going to be using hosted.fedoraproject.org for all
the system-config* tools so that the source isnt just in the srpms
< mether> thats the plan anyway
< Strikeforce> Apologies to all I have to leave right now have a
birthday party to attend. I've signed up with doc's at the moment will
send an introduction letter later on.
< mether> see ya
< mether> if anyone else have other ideas that we need to discuss, let me know
< JonRob> mether: yeah sorry
< JonRob> but i do have to dash again shortly :S turns out not such a
good time for me!
< mether> JonRob: it's ok. I just wanted to know how the interviews
< JonRob> Strikefoce: bye!
< JonRob> mether: yeah not bad...i've got transifex to go up this coming week
< JonRob> and i'm waiting for answers about pulse audio
< JonRob> which i may try and chase up (politely)
< JonRob> beyond that i need to get more questions sent out now
< mether> ya, he has been busy
< mether> what about the interview with chitlesh goorah
< JonRob> yeah i appreciate that - really appreciate the time all the
developers have given! think it's been worth it thoguh :D
< JonRob> yeah transifex
< JonRob> is ready to go this week
< mether> electronics lab spin
< couf> transifex = dimitris glezos?
< mether> yes
< mether> dimitris has submitted a talk proposal in a conference in
India which is likely to get accepted btw
< JonRob> oh lol yes sorry!
< mether> in December
< JonRob> i'm getting my head in a spin here today
< JonRob> electronics lab is also ready to go :D
< mether> great
< JonRob> mether: cool about dimitris...
< JonRob> other features i really want to cover:
< JonRob> codec buddy
< JonRob> firewall config
< JonRob> oh man and my mind is blank again
< JonRob> well they're two good targets for the next few
< mether> right
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< mether> i think we can keep going post release too
< mether> but these two features
< mether> can be published about before the release itself
< mether> if possible
< JonRob> yes definitely
< JonRob> it might be cool to put together a summary article too
< mether> yes
< JonRob> covering all the features with quotes from the devs etc
< mether> i think that should be a pdf file
< JonRob> and then try and get that posted around in the same way as
< mether> benefits/features
< JonRob> but save that for close to the release
< JonRob> yeah pdf would be good
< mether> right
< mether>I will start working on that
< JonRob> ok cool
< mether> what else is needed?
< couf> release announcement?
< mether> yeah, documentation team has been taking care of that so far
< mether> and I am all for letting that continue
< mether> if we can get more organized documentation
< JonRob> yeah they do a good job with it
< mether> for creating spins
< mether> that would be good
< mether> from the marketing perspective we really need that
< JonRob> oh shoot - my apologies for that - i had volunteered to do
that sometime ago
< mether> for spins.fp.o
< JonRob> but i've just run out of itme
< couf> JonRob: no prob, we've all got busy lives
< mether> if anyone wants to look into again, please do.
< JonRob> what i got so far is on the docs project wiki space
< JonRob> i think what would be most useful is a really simple break down though
< mether> yep
< JonRob> at least for the immediate future
< mether> ok
< mether> anything else or shall we wind up now?
< JonRob> http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/documentation
< JonRob> fedora unity have done a pretty good job themselves actually
< JonRob> we should at least point to that somehwere
< mether> one of the problems
< mether> is that documentation on spins
< mether> is very much scattered
< mether> all over the place
< mether> fedora unity docs can be copied
< mether> directly
< mether> the license is the same
< mether> FYI
< JonRob> ok cool - wel maybe if we add their documentation to the docs.fp.org
< JonRob> ?
< JonRob> with a bit of editing?
< mether> we should
< JonRob> maybe this is more a matter for docs team to discuss?
< mether> that would be about an hour of work
< mether> to clean it up
< mether> merge it with the existing docs in the wiki
< mether> and publish it
< JonRob> shall i post to the docs list about this?
< mether> I have added tons of references to
< mether> yes
< couf> JonRob: can you make the docs-meeting tomorrow? (17UTC)
< JonRob> let them know what we've said?
< mether> go ahead
< JonRob> couf: probably not :S
< mether> post to the list
< couf> JonRob: yeah okay, no worries
< mether> needn't wait for the meeting
< mether> --- meeting over ---
i've been following the discussion, and I'd like to add variations of the
slogan to be considered:
Fedora: Freedom Capable
Freedom: Not just another feature
Fedora: Freedom Integrated
Fedora: Freedom of Choice (this one's a repeat)
I don't think the word 'feature' is only associated with computer jargon,
but it is indeed its stronger association.
It's been also incorporated to, at least in Argentina, where I come from, to
everyday Spanish because of a lack of an accurate 1 word translation.
Long long ago, we used to have regular marketing meetings which died
down when Colin Charles went off to become MySQL community manager
instead of doing his duty as the Fedora marketing lead ;-) but that is
Now that we have some good amount of interest in marketing Fedora, it
might be a good time to start those meetings again, plan, schedule and
DO important things. I was hoping we could do one coming Oct 13 Saturday
whatever time that is preferable to folks and see what pans out. The
agenda would be come up with a proper marketing plan ahead of the Fedora
8 release. Let me know who is interested and what time would be
appropriate for you.