Re: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[nodata]

Hello, I read about the new logo on Fedora People. Might as well throw in
my opinion :)

>  It's too clever. 
The first time I saw the proposed logo I thought to myself "Why on earth
is there a Möbius strip in the logo?".
I don't want to have to understand a logo.

What about a logo that can be good both with and without understanding it?
FedEx does this with their logo:
 http://tinyurl.com/dqegd
At first look, it simply says "FedEx". On closer look, it describes their
business. Look at the arrow between the "E" and "X".

Mod01, mod02, mod03 are all improvements because they try to hide the
difficult-to-explain part of the logo.

I don't like the alt logos at all.

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Rahul Sundaram]

nodata wrote:

> Hello, I read about the new logo on Fedora People. Might as well throw
> in
> my opinion :)
>
>   
>
> >It's too clever.
> >    
> >
>
> The first time I saw the proposed logo I thought to myself "Why on earth
> is there a Möbius strip in the logo?".
> I don't want to have to understand a logo.
>   
>  
Logos dont necessarily require a meaning to be immediately visible to 
everyone. Just a unique identity and familiarity would be enough. 
Familiarity would arrive over a period of time depending on the 
visibility. Once we decide on the logo, thats where the attention would 
be on.

regards
Rahul

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[nodata]

>  nodata wrote:
>
> >Hello, I read about the new logo on Fedora People. Might as well throw in
> >my opinion :)
> >
> >
> >
> >>It's too clever.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >The first time I saw the proposed logo I thought to myself "Why on earth
> >is there a Möbius strip in the logo?".
> >I don't want to have to understand a logo.
> >
> >
>  Logos dont necessarily require a meaning to be immediately visible to
>  everyone. Just a unique identity and familiarity would be enough.
>  Familiarity would arrive over a period of time depending on the
>  visibility. Once we decide on the logo, thats where the attention would
>  be on.
>
>  regards
>  Rahul
>  
But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that good?

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

> But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that
> good?
>   
>  
Is it really?. Examples have been given before. What your understanding 
of the Nike logo?. Is that somehow immediately visible to anyone who 
sees it?.

Fedora represents many things to many different people. Its my opinion 
that providing a simple visual identity is more important  rather than 
trying to capture something as diverse as the nature of Fedora within a 
single image and have it immediately recognizable to everyone who sees it. 

regards
Rahul

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[nodata]

>  Hi
>
> >But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that good?
> >
> >
>  Is it really?. Examples have been given before. What your understanding
>  of the Nike logo?. Is that somehow immediately visible to anyone who
>  sees it?.
>
>  Fedora represents many things to many different people. Its my opinion
>  that providing a simple visual identity is more important  rather than
>  trying to capture something as diverse as the nature of Fedora within a
>  single image and have it immediately recognizable to everyone who sees it.
>
>  regards
>  Rahul 
I look at the Nike logo and see a tick. That's all the thought I gave to it.

I looked at the proposed Fedora logo, and saw a Möbius strip, with white
and light blue, then wondered why it had two colours, then saw the "f",
then wondered why the rest of the strip was light blue, then wondered why
there is a Möbius strip at all, then wondered why fedora legacy had green,
then wondered what the light blue meant if legacy meant green.

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

> I look at the Nike logo and see a tick. That's all the thought I
> gave to it.
>
> I looked at the proposed Fedora logo, and saw a Möbius strip, with white
> and light blue, then wondered why it had two colours, then saw the "f",
> then wondered why the rest of the strip was light blue, then wondered why
> there is a Möbius strip at all, then wondered why fedora legacy had green,
> then wondered what the light blue meant if legacy meant green.
>   
>  
Blue for Fedora. Green for Legacy and rest for your imagination. Have fun!

regards
Rahul

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[nodata]

>  Hi
>
> >I look at the Nike logo and see a tick. That's all the thought I gave to
> > it.
> >
> >I looked at the proposed Fedora logo, and saw a Möbius strip, with white
> >and light blue, then wondered why it had two colours, then saw the "f",
> >then wondered why the rest of the strip was light blue, then wondered why
> >there is a Möbius strip at all, then wondered why fedora legacy had
> > green,
> >then wondered what the light blue meant if legacy meant green.
> >
> >
>  Blue for Fedora. Green for Legacy and rest for your imagination. Have fun!
>
>  regards
>  Rahul 
Err- thanks for that, but the point of my e-mail wasn't to get it
explained, it was to show the questions others might ask themselves when
seeing the logo.

A loop with an f in it?

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

> Err- thanks for that, but the point of my e-mail wasn't to get it
> explained, 
>  
It wasnt a explanation of the logo but the colors associated with the 
project.

> it was to show the questions others might ask themselves when
> seeing the logo.
>
> A loop with an f in it?
>   
>  
If thats the impression it gives you then thats fine. Those who are 
really curious and obsolutely require a explanation can read up on the 
design. Rest of them just need a visual identity and any logo would 
serve that purpose.  Some would like it and some would not.  A logo is 
only part of what provides a good impression.   At some point we just 
need to decide on one, stick with it and move on.

regards
Rahul

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Jef Spaleta]

On 11/8/05, nodata <fedora(a)nodata.co.uk&gt; wrote:
>  But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that
> good? 
I'm not distracted... nor am I annoyed... perhaps the fault lies
inward and not with the logo.

If you choose to go back and read up on the initial discussion when
this draft was presented... you'll find the link to
http://capstrat.com/development/fedora/ which has several images as
links to tell the logo development story.  Several people agreed in
the first round of discussion about the draft in september that
http://capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10.jpg
makes a particularly good "slogan" that could be used initially as
banner material and as a t-shirt design to dissiminate the underlying
message.

This level of discussion is not moving things foward. If you have
different modifications to present.. do like dfong did..create a set
of modifications to the draft and present them.

-jef

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Joshua Wulf]

>  This level of discussion is not moving things foward. If you have
>  different modifications to present.. do like dfong did..create a set
>  of modifications to the draft and present them.
>     
Jef, it's not my intention to derail the process, so please don't 
misread me. I respect the work that you and others have done to move 
this forward to this point, and I'm not trying to move things backwards.

Not everyone is happy with the logo as it stands now (wait....)

As you are well aware, 100% consensus is a pipe dream, and there are 
always going to be people who don't like it. At the same time, some 
people are at ill at ease with the logo, but aren't able to put it 
clearly into words.

I know that we are annoying with our drive-by opinions, "it just doesn't 
look right" whining, and lack of a concrete proposal, but please humor 
me while I make an attempt to crystallize my own thoughts, and coalesce 
the concerns of others into *something that can be a valid and useful 
input into further development of the logo*.

Please let me be clear: I understand the need for putting the stake into 
the ground at some gosh darned point to *make it happen*, and to be 
completely frank with you, I really admire and appreciate your focus and 
your intensity (spleen ripping and all :-), which are making it happen.

I'm right behind you, with the rest of the stragglers. Please be patient 
with me.

- josh "don't shoot - i'm on your side!" wulf

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Jef Spaleta]

On 11/8/05, Joshua Wulf <jwulf(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Not everyone is happy with the logo as it stands now (wait....)
I dare say an equal or fewer number of serious people would be happy
with any of the community supplied drafts that came before as part of
the list discussion. Nicu is a pretty good artist, and did a
reasonable job turning presented ideas into drafts.. but nothing fit
any better than the 'official' draft did.  This discussion can not
linger for a year while we nitpick a visual design.

>  As you are well aware, 100% consensus is a pipe dream, and there are
>  always going to be people who don't like it. At the same time, some
>  people are at ill at ease with the logo, but aren't able to put it
>  clearly into words. 
Words words words... a picture is worth a thousand of them.  If you
want to discuss modifications to the draft logo we have now.. break
out gimp or inkscape and draw the mock up which fixes the problem.
What dfong presented as modifications is exactly where discussion
needs to go at this late date.   And let me remind you again that the
draft we have in hand now was communicated on sept 16th, nearly 2
months ago... 2 months...2.

As reference  the thread from Sept 16th, "Meeting minutes - 16/09/2005"
Several people spent time giving feedback in that thread.. most of
those people have been involved in the discussion in july and august. 
Several people produced mocked up examples modifications to tweak the
design in that thread. I belive both Toshio and Tejas mocked up
modifications to address the concern you raise with regard to the f
not being distinquishable nearly 2 months ago... 2 months...2.  Though
they were able to do it without using the word "prevaricate" so i
guess you get sole credit for increasing the unique word count for the
list.

>  I'm right behind you, with the rest of the stragglers. Please be
> patient
>  with me. 
I refuse to be patient.. especially when I'm suffering from low blood
sugar right before dinner.

-jef"i need a cookie"spaleta

Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one

[Nicu Buculei]

nodata wrote:
>  
>  Mod01, mod02, mod03 are all improvements because they try to hide the
>  difficult-to-explain part of the logo. 
I disagree: why have a logo in the first place if you try to hide it? 
The logo should stand on its own and be recognizable even without the 
'fedora' word - this is what i don't like at mod01 and mod03

-- 
nicu
my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro