Re: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Jan Wildeboer]

The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in 
becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold 
resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is 
AOL' 95, why should they care?

;-)

Jan

----- Original Message -----
From: [e-mail] 

To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base 

Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
the most interesting is actually the replies its having.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting...

In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)

Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Tony Guntharp]

This article primarily relates to Kernel development. The real issue
is that kernel development is in fact "hard". It's generally far more
difficult that anything you learn in school/university and most
developers don't get to the skill level required to work on the kernel
until they've been in the corporate workforce for years solving real
problems not theoretical ones.

-t

Tony Guntharp
Co-Founder SourceForge.net
1 [phone]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:13, Jan Wildeboer  wrote:
> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>
> ;-)
>
> Jan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [e-mail]
>
> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
>
> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>
> Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting...
>
> In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> --
> marketing mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Robyn Bergeron]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Tony Guntharp  wrote:
> This article primarily relates to Kernel development. The real issue
> is that kernel development is in fact "hard". It's generally far more
> difficult that anything you learn in school/university and most
> developers don't get to the skill level required to work on the kernel
> until they've been in the corporate workforce for years solving real
> problems not theoretical ones.

Well - and as is pointed out - the kernel wasn't this complicated back
when many of the developers were -in college- (or their early careers,
etc). If they were confronted then with what one is facing now as a
beginning kernel dev... it would be a whole different story.

There are also significantly more places to contribute now than 15+
years ago; people aren't as focused on "making my computer work" as
they are on "i want this XYZ application of mine to work."  I think
the problem is really that very few people think about how they could
further enhance how things work, fundamentally, when they're - for the
most part - generally happy with how things are working now.
> -t
>
> Tony Guntharp
> Co-Founder SourceForge.net
> 1 [phone]
>
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:13, Jan Wildeboer  wrote:
> > The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
> > becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
> > resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
> > AOL' 95, why should they care?
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: [e-mail]
> >
> > To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
> >
> > Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> > Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
> >
> > Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> > the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
> >
> > http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting...
> >
> > In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> > deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
> >
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Tony Guntharp]

That's a fair assessment. The kernel has no progressed to the point
where it's stable and mature. Besides kids today want to work on
what's sexy and cool and trust me, kernel development isn't either.

-t

Tony Guntharp
Co-Founder SourceForge.net
1 [phone]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:29, Robyn Bergeron  wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Tony Guntharp  wrote:
> > This article primarily relates to Kernel development. The real issue
> > is that kernel development is in fact "hard". It's generally far more
> > difficult that anything you learn in school/university and most
> > developers don't get to the skill level required to work on the kernel
> > until they've been in the corporate workforce for years solving real
> > problems not theoretical ones.
>
> Well - and as is pointed out - the kernel wasn't this complicated back
> when many of the developers were -in college- (or their early careers,
> etc). If they were confronted then with what one is facing now as a
> beginning kernel dev... it would be a whole different story.
>
> There are also significantly more places to contribute now than 15+
> years ago; people aren't as focused on "making my computer work" as
> they are on "i want this XYZ application of mine to work."  I think
> the problem is really that very few people think about how they could
> further enhance how things work, fundamentally, when they're - for the
> most part - generally happy with how things are working now.
> > -t
> >
> > Tony Guntharp
> > Co-Founder SourceForge.net
> > 1 [phone]
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:13, Jan Wildeboer  wrote:
> > > The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
> > > becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
> > > resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
> > > AOL' 95, why should they care?
> > >
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: [e-mail]
> > >
> > > To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
> > >
> > > Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> > > Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
> > >
> > > Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> > > the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
> > >
> > > http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting...
> > >
> > > In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> > > deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
> > >
> > > --
> > > marketing mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> > > --
> > > marketing mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Leigh Cantrell Day]

Is there any demographic data available that accurately depicts the 
Fedora community, beyond the maintainer group?

thx,
leigh

Jan Wildeboer wrote:
> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in 
> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold 
> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is 
> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>
> ;-)
>
> Jan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [e-mail] 
>
> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base 
>
> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>
> Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting...
>
> In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)

Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Robyn Bergeron]

Other than geographical locations - not really.

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Leigh Cantrell Day  wrote:
> Is there any demographic data available that accurately depicts the
> Fedora community, beyond the maintainer group?
>
> thx,
> leigh
>
> Jan Wildeboer wrote:
> > The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
> > becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
> > resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
> > AOL' 95, why should they care?
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: [e-mail]
> >
> > To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
> >
> > Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> > Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
> >
> > Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> > the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
> >
> > http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting...
> >
> > In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> > deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

[Mel Chua]

> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Leigh Cantrell Day  wrote:
> > Is there any demographic data available that accurately depicts the
> > Fedora community, beyond the maintainer group?
> On 04/21/2010 12:57 PM, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> Other than geographical locations - not really.

Perhaps the question(s) should be "what kinds of demographic data would 
we like, how can we get it, and what would we be able to do with it?"

The last one is the interesting one to me; there are some ideas on what 
we might do with quantitative data 
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Statistics_2.0#Marketing_Use_Cases) 
but I have heard few discussions of how to gather and use qualitative 
data - why is it that people do or don't join open source as 
contributors, how do contributors get started, etc - and it seems to me 
that those things may help us answer some of the questions brought up in 
this thread.

Ccing Diana Martin since she's doing qualitative research on the Fedora 
community and may have some insights as to how this sort of questions 
would be tackled with those sorts of research tools. (Diana, the 
original thread is 
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-April/012587.html, 
for context.)

--Mel