http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+13&aq=f
Disclaimer: I propose a truce on this thread and no "licensing" weapons of mass destruction please. The important thing is feedback.
That is the result of a query for "Fedora 13"... some of those videos are pretty nice. I don't know who is the person on the videos neither the full extent of his publications. I understand that we have problems with H.264 and it's seen as something malefic to our noble beliefs.
Anyway, my questions:
# How could Marketing support people who develop that work? Could we provide them more material? (at least compilation of links?).
# Should we support their work? (their work, not their ways of diffusing information, so we can skip the H264 issues)
# Should we run something like a small program (probably a database of info) to cooperate with people who are actually promoting us?
# About user feedback. Shouldn't we lurk and take notes on criticism made by people outside our community? Eventually try to identify for flaws and prepare some corrections so we can actually try to leverage their expectations with satisfaction ?
Now considering the following search: "FEDORA REVIEW"
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+review&aq=f
A simple indicator that pops out, is that hits have been dropping since Fedora 10 ;). Less people interested ?
Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and have some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide segmented information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
By the way, I would like to point something very interesting...
Hits for "Fedora PS3" are incredible... Who is doing this Fedora stuff on PS3? Do we have a good reason for neglecting this? Because to me it appears that this gets a lot of interest... is that a SPIN ? 8)
Another interesting thing is comparing the search results and hits for:
Fedora Ubuntu opensuse debian arch linux.
This mainly result of pure curiosity.
nelson
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+13&aq=f
Disclaimer: I propose a truce on this thread and no "licensing" weapons of mass destruction please. The important thing is feedback.
That is the result of a query for "Fedora 13"... some of those videos are pretty nice. I don't know who is the person on the videos neither the full extent of his publications. I understand that we have problems with H.264 and it's seen as something malefic to our noble beliefs.
Anyway, my questions:
# How could Marketing support people who develop that work? Could we provide them more material? (at least compilation of links?).
# Should we support their work? (their work, not their ways of diffusing information, so we can skip the H264 issues)
# Should we run something like a small program (probably a database of info) to cooperate with people who are actually promoting us?
# About user feedback. Shouldn't we lurk and take notes on criticism made by people outside our community? Eventually try to identify for flaws and prepare some corrections so we can actually try to leverage their expectations with satisfaction ?
Now considering the following search: "FEDORA REVIEW"
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+review&aq=f
A simple indicator that pops out, is that hits have been dropping since Fedora 10 ;). Less people interested ?
Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and have some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide segmented information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
By the way, I would like to point something very interesting...
Hits for "Fedora PS3" are incredible... Who is doing this Fedora stuff on PS3? Do we have a good reason for neglecting this? Because to me it appears that this gets a lot of interest... is that a SPIN ? 8)
Another interesting thing is comparing the search results and hits for:
Fedora Ubuntu opensuse debian arch linux.
This mainly result of pure curiosity.
nelson
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Nelson,
I'm glad to see that there's still discussion about this. To answer your questions:
1) I think material should unquestionably be provided. It should also be clear to content providers what they are permitted to use (logos, screenshots, etc) without fear of repercussions.
2) We should unquestionably show support for their work. If they do not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.
3) I think that a small program would benefit us overall. Personally, I'm still keen on the idea of having someone from Marketing manage a YouTube account and accept works that do the best job of showcasing Fedora's capabilities.
4) I'm from outside of the community, but I think that lurking without any engagement will discourage people from contributing ideas. Taking notes is important, but so is engagement.
Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and have some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide segmented information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
I think this is crucial, as it would illustrate how much Fedora values its users and contributors.
Further thoughts, anyone?
Nick
On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 16:03 -0400, Nicholas Ozorak wrote:
Nelson,
I'm glad to see that there's still discussion about this. To answer your questions:
- I think material should unquestionably be provided. It should
also be clear to content providers what they are permitted to use (logos, screenshots, etc) without fear of repercussions.
The licensing is pretty good and useful for people to work, though about logo's they have their own guidelines and from my point of view while we should neglect some stuff, we should enforce time to time some corrections on stuff that can be harmful to the brand itself.
- We should unquestionably show support for their work. If they do
not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.
Indeed, but the main question is actually how should we provide such? Should we contact authors who make freelance work and ask them if we can distribute their work also? I mean, some of those videos are pretty awesome, we could probably establish a protocol with people (or some other non-formal way) to encourage their work, maybe before we make big news public with our press releases, make the info available to known media partners so they have something to work for?
On a different perspective, I've represented Logitech in the past (2002/2003). Logitech provides their partners (mainly their resellers, their premier distribution channel for "Logitech", ignoring the great core business in OEM) with very competitve advantages. Maybe we should get to know some potential distribution channels for information and think over on something that would allow them also to present good information and giving them some time to work it out?
- I think that a small program would benefit us overall. Personally,
I'm still keen on the idea of having someone from Marketing manage a YouTube account and accept works that do the best job of showcasing Fedora's capabilities.
Well, as I see it... Most people don't actually separate the contents/support from the channel of distribution. I mean... some of this things are really weird (at a personal level, absurd would be a better description). I am fond of using Youtube aswell, why? Because most people use it. So... I'm cutting my digital TV service and go back to RF technology because it deploys contents in über proprietary technology? bah... sure... right...
As long as the content licenses are in our favor, I dont see why care much about the platform for distribution.
Lets imagine this... I'm sponsoring 5K t-shirts with the Fedora Foundation to ambassadors... I probably won't find no one to print them out using OSS technology :( So, no t-shirts.
- I'm from outside of the community, but I think that lurking without
any engagement will discourage people from contributing ideas. Taking notes is important, but so is engagement.
Same here, and sometimes it's really frustrating. I understand the values, but I have to say that despite I don't like Ubuntu (and my main reason should be clear to everyone, and its personal view... African Words? Sure they contributed a lot to the Digital Era! _NOT_!), but as product, I do support them to break some barriers that other community seem to make a crusade of it. The bigger is the market penetration of a product, the better. Sure we all earn from Canonical's ambitious moves (August will be astonishing for what I've heard), but so far, they are leading the way for all FOSS people. We will fail on "First" for sure against Canonical from that perspective.
Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and
have
some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide
segmented
information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
I think this is crucial, as it would illustrate how much Fedora values its users and contributors.
Same here. I do recon it might be hard to work with very extensive materials, as some are for sure hard to forecast, but we should focus a bit more. I'm going to give a quick example, and please dont attack me! It's a valid reason... why are we working on stuff that is deeply related to products that are in the end of the life time cycle? Waste of time, NO... but we would earn more if we were working in future stuff.
I don't know exactly how to put up such a thing... but if anyone has ideas, I'm listening and willing to help.
Further thoughts, anyone?
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Nelson Marques 07721@ipam.pt wrote:
On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 16:03 -0400, Nicholas Ozorak wrote:
- I think material should unquestionably be provided. It should
also be clear to content providers what they are permitted to use (logos, screenshots, etc) without fear of repercussions.
The licensing is pretty good and useful for people to work, though about logo's they have their own guidelines and from my point of view while we should neglect some stuff, we should enforce time to time some corrections on stuff that can be harmful to the brand itself.
There should be some section somewhere that clearly states what can and can't be used in videos, namely logos and screenshots. That will help to prevent confusion on the part of content creators.
- We should unquestionably show support for their work. If they do
not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.
Indeed, but the main question is actually how should we provide such? Should we contact authors who make freelance work and ask them if we can distribute their work also? I mean, some of those videos are pretty awesome, we could probably establish a protocol with people (or some other non-formal way) to encourage their work, maybe before we make big news public with our press releases, make the info available to known media partners so they have something to work for?
Providing feedback can be done through commenting on videos and inviting content creators to the marketing list, as they may not already be aware it exists. If the content creators' work is not on Internet Archive, asking them if we may redistribute their video may not be a bad idea.
Keeping media partners in the loop (and ahead of it, in some ways) would definitely be a good idea. They could provide extra hype before the official releases.
On a different perspective, I've represented Logitech in the past (2002/2003). Logitech provides their partners (mainly their resellers, their premier distribution channel for "Logitech", ignoring the great core business in OEM) with very competitve advantages. Maybe we should get to know some potential distribution channels for information and think over on something that would allow them also to present good information and giving them some time to work it out?
Absolutely.
One such person who could potentially bring a lot of traffic to Fedora is a man by the name of Chris Pirillo. He's a YouTube vlogger who talks about technology. His YouTube channel is here:
http://www.youtube.com/lockergnome
With over 120,000 subscribers, contacting him about promoting Fedora 13 wouldn't be a bad place to start.
- I think that a small program would benefit us overall. Personally,
I'm still keen on the idea of having someone from Marketing manage a YouTube account and accept works that do the best job of showcasing Fedora's capabilities.
Well, as I see it... Most people don't actually separate the contents/support from the channel of distribution. I mean... some of this things are really weird (at a personal level, absurd would be a better description). I am fond of using Youtube aswell, why? Because most people use it. So... I'm cutting my digital TV service and go back to RF technology because it deploys contents in über proprietary technology? bah... sure... right...
As long as the content licenses are in our favor, I dont see why care much about the platform for distribution.
Lets imagine this... I'm sponsoring 5K t-shirts with the Fedora Foundation to ambassadors... I probably won't find no one to print them out using OSS technology :( So, no t-shirts.
- I'm from outside of the community, but I think that lurking without
any engagement will discourage people from contributing ideas. Taking notes is important, but so is engagement.
Same here, and sometimes it's really frustrating. I understand the values, but I have to say that despite I don't like Ubuntu (and my main reason should be clear to everyone, and its personal view... African Words? Sure they contributed a lot to the Digital Era! _NOT_!), but as product, I do support them to break some barriers that other community seem to make a crusade of it. The bigger is the market penetration of a product, the better. Sure we all earn from Canonical's ambitious moves (August will be astonishing for what I've heard), but so far, they are leading the way for all FOSS people. We will fail on "First" for sure against Canonical from that perspective.
Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and
have
some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide
segmented
information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
I think this is crucial, as it would illustrate how much Fedora values its users and contributors.
Same here. I do recon it might be hard to work with very extensive materials, as some are for sure hard to forecast, but we should focus a bit more. I'm going to give a quick example, and please dont attack me! It's a valid reason... why are we working on stuff that is deeply related to products that are in the end of the life time cycle? Waste of time, NO... but we would earn more if we were working in future stuff.
I don't know exactly how to put up such a thing... but if anyone has ideas, I'm listening and willing to help.
I, too, am willing to listen to other suggestions. If anyone has thoughts on the matter, please feel free to chime in.
Nick
On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 11:44 -0400, Nicholas Ozorak wrote:
There should be some section somewhere that clearly states what can and can't be used in videos, namely logos and screenshots. That will help to prevent confusion on the part of content creators.
Though I do agree with this, usually such things will take creatives and designers to shield behind "freedom" and see this as some kind of *malefic* stuff that is planned to reduce their creativity.
This is one of the things that cracked my head a couple of times, as we work mainly with free contributors. While in a corporation, administration mandates are unquestionable and people do follow, on communities such as our own, that's a very sensible area. I could've saved myself some embarrassments in the past, though I believe I was correct and was acting in the best interest of Fedora.
I will give a quick example off-topic:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_14
That's a list of contributions for Fedora 14 naming. One of them is "Emancipation". Though I'm a strong supporter of emancipation, if such naming is approved, countries in the Middle East will not be seeing this with good eyes (supposing they are free of exporting blockades and such). While it's armeless in the Western World, it is not a good choice for other people. Sometimes pointing stuff like this gets me dubbed as a negative person trying to bring a negative load into the team.
This is a very sensible area and though I would like to see Fedora and other FOSS communities promoting such values, it might bring a harmful load towards us.
Generally, yes, I will backup some restrictive guidelines, but on the other hand, I do also want to backup creatives and contributors. I don't know what other people think, but we sometimes get into weird stuff.
Providing feedback can be done through commenting on videos and inviting content creators to the marketing list, as they may not already be aware it exists. If the content creators' work is not on Internet Archive, asking them if we may redistribute their video may not be a bad idea.
Keeping media partners in the loop (and ahead of it, in some ways) would definitely be a good idea. They could provide extra hype before the official releases.
I think that the effort being done in the Feature Profiles might be a good thing to backup this in a nearby future, as we can establishing easily an evolution line related to the "commercial" product, and though its free (no monetary involved), it's still commercial as we are selling an experience. Media should back us up and we should provide them the necessary knowledge. I've seen too much corrections around Fedora 13 already and mistakes being made by the media.
We are maybe failing in being more objective and providing them good material for their work. Though our Wiki has tons of information, it might not be correctly segmented for media research.
I do hope Fedora Insight will provide a method to cover (at least minimize) this gap.
But it's a +1, we need to provide more objective and accurate material for the media.
Absolutely.
One such person who could potentially bring a lot of traffic to Fedora is a man by the name of Chris Pirillo. He's a YouTube vlogger who talks about technology. His YouTube channel is here:
http://www.youtube.com/lockergnome
With over 120,000 subscribers, contacting him about promoting Fedora 13 wouldn't be a bad place to start.
We rush once more into the H.264 problem and hostility towards licences.
Maybe contact him as ask him to be a partner of Fedora in Fedora Insight? I am not sure on what the other people on the list have to say, but that would be probably be something that wouldn't harm us.
I do love this idea of providing them information, or even ask them to join us here so they can get some materials and information and even follow our work. There is much they could use to develop their own work.
I would love to ear Fedora's Project Leader's words about this.
I, too, am willing to listen to other suggestions. If anyone has thoughts on the matter, please feel free to chime in.
Nick
I subscribe Nick on this.
Nelson
There should be some section somewhere that clearly states what can and can't be used in videos, namely logos and screenshots. That will help to prevent confusion on the part of content creators.
We have http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines, and could always use feedback on how to make it clearer and easier to read. ;)
- We should unquestionably show support for their work. If they do
not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.
Indeed, but the main question is actually how should we provide such? Should we contact authors who make freelance work and ask them if we can distribute their work also? I mean, some of those videos are pretty awesome, we could probably establish a protocol with people (or some other non-formal way) to encourage their work, maybe before we make big news public with our press releases, make the info available to known media partners so they have something to work for?
Providing feedback can be done through commenting on videos and inviting content creators to the marketing list, as they may not already be aware it exists. If the content creators' work is not on Internet Archive, asking them if we may redistribute their video may not be a bad idea.
+1 to both here. I think, more than anything else, we need a person (or a group of people) to sit down and say "okay, there's some great video out there; we're going to take an hour to sprint and send emails to all the awesome Fedora video creators we find asking them if we can distribute their work, with instructions on how they can license their work so that we can do exactly that." Process is great if it helps people get stuff done, but ultimately someone's got to step up to do the doing. :)
Keeping media partners in the loop (and ahead of it, in some ways) would definitely be a good idea. They could provide extra hype before the official releases.
Yep. I think Zonker's Classroom session from yesterday had some excellent suggestions here.
One such person who could potentially bring a lot of traffic to Fedora is a man by the name of Chris Pirillo. He's a YouTube vlogger who talks about technology. His YouTube channel is here:
http://www.youtube.com/lockergnome
With over 120,000 subscribers, contacting him about promoting Fedora 13 wouldn't be a bad place to start.
If someone does this, please Cc the list so the rest of us know what's going on (and Chris Pirillo doesn't get a dozen almost-identical messages from members of the Fedora Marketing team)!
These are great thoughts. How do we do something with them? :)
--Mel
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Mel Chua -
Nelson Marques -
Nicholas Ozorak