Something more about Fedora 13... and YOUTUBE.

[Nelson Marques]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+13&aq=f

Disclaimer: I propose a truce on this thread and no "licensing" weapons
of mass destruction please. The important thing is feedback.

That is the result of a query for "Fedora 13"... some of those videos
are pretty nice. I don't know who is the person on the videos neither
the full extent of his publications. I understand that we have problems
with H.264 and it's seen as something malefic to our noble beliefs.

Anyway, my questions:

# How could Marketing support people who develop that work? Could we
provide them more material? (at least compilation of links?).

# Should we support their work? (their work, not their ways of diffusing
information, so we can skip the H264 issues)

# Should we run something like a small program (probably a database of
info) to cooperate with people who are actually promoting us?

# About user feedback. Shouldn't we lurk and take notes on criticism
made by people outside our community? Eventually try to identify for
flaws and prepare some corrections so we can actually try to leverage
their expectations with satisfaction ?


Now considering the following search: "FEDORA REVIEW"

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+review&aq=f

A simple indicator that pops out, is that hits have been dropping since
Fedora 10 ;). Less people interested ?

Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and have
some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we
actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide segmented
information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?

By the way, I would like to point something very interesting...

Hits for "Fedora PS3" are incredible... Who is doing this Fedora stuff
on PS3? Do we have a good reason for neglecting this? Because to me it
appears that this gets a lot of interest... is that a SPIN ? 8)

Another interesting thing is comparing the search results and hits for:

Fedora
Ubuntu
opensuse
debian
arch linux.


This mainly result of pure curiosity.

nelson

[Nicholas Ozorak]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote:
>  http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+13&aq=f
>
>  Disclaimer: I propose a truce on this thread and no "licensing" weapons
>  of mass destruction please. The important thing is feedback.
>
>  That is the result of a query for "Fedora 13"... some of those videos
>  are pretty nice. I don't know who is the person on the videos neither
>  the full extent of his publications. I understand that we have problems
>  with H.264 and it's seen as something malefic to our noble beliefs.
>
>  Anyway, my questions:
>
>  # How could Marketing support people who develop that work? Could we
>  provide them more material? (at least compilation of links?).
>
>  # Should we support their work? (their work, not their ways of diffusing
>  information, so we can skip the H264 issues)
>
>  # Should we run something like a small program (probably a database of
>  info) to cooperate with people who are actually promoting us?
>
>  # About user feedback. Shouldn't we lurk and take notes on criticism
>  made by people outside our community? Eventually try to identify for
>  flaws and prepare some corrections so we can actually try to leverage
>  their expectations with satisfaction ?
>
>
>  Now considering the following search: "FEDORA REVIEW"
>
>  http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fedora+review&aq=f
>
>  A simple indicator that pops out, is that hits have been dropping since
>  Fedora 10 ;). Less people interested ?
>
>  Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and have
>  some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we
>  actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide segmented
>  information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
>
>  By the way, I would like to point something very interesting...
>
>  Hits for "Fedora PS3" are incredible... Who is doing this Fedora stuff
>  on PS3? Do we have a good reason for neglecting this? Because to me it
>  appears that this gets a lot of interest... is that a SPIN ? 8)
>
>  Another interesting thing is comparing the search results and hits for:
>
>  Fedora
>  Ubuntu
>  opensuse
>  debian
>  arch linux.
>
>
>  This mainly result of pure curiosity.
>
>  nelson
>
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  
Nelson,

I'm glad to see that there's still discussion about this.  To answer
your questions:

1)  I think material should unquestionably be provided.  It should
also be clear to content providers what they are permitted to use
(logos, screenshots, etc) without fear of repercussions.

2)  We should unquestionably show support for their work.  If they do
not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.

3) I think that a small program would benefit us overall.  Personally,
I'm still keen on the idea of having someone from Marketing manage a
YouTube account and accept works that do the best job of showcasing
Fedora's capabilities.

4) I'm from outside of the community, but I think that lurking without
any engagement will discourage people from contributing ideas.  Taking
notes is important, but so is engagement.

>  Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and
> have
>  some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we
>  actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide segmented
>  information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work? 
I think this is crucial, as it would illustrate how much Fedora values
its users and contributors.

Further thoughts, anyone?

Nick

[Nelson Marques]

On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 16:03 -0400, Nicholas Ozorak wrote:
>  Nelson,
>  
>  I'm glad to see that there's still discussion about this.  To answer
>  your questions:
>  
>  1)  I think material should unquestionably be provided.  It should
>  also be clear to content providers what they are permitted to use
>  (logos, screenshots, etc) without fear of repercussions. 
The licensing is pretty good and useful for people to work, though about
logo's they have their own guidelines and from my point of view while we
should neglect some stuff, we should enforce time to time some
corrections on stuff that can be harmful to the brand itself. 

>  
>  2)  We should unquestionably show support for their work.  If they do
>  not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest. 
Indeed, but the main question is actually how should we provide such?
Should we contact authors who make freelance work and ask them if we can
distribute their work also? I mean, some of those videos are pretty
awesome, we could probably establish a protocol with people (or some
other non-formal way) to encourage their work, maybe before we make big
news public with our press releases, make the info available to known
media partners so they have something to work for?

On a different perspective, I've represented Logitech in the past
(2002/2003). Logitech provides their partners (mainly their resellers,
their premier distribution channel for "Logitech", ignoring the great
core business in OEM) with very competitve advantages. Maybe we should
get to know some potential distribution channels for information and
think over on something that would allow them also to present good
information and giving them some time to work it out?

>  
>  3) I think that a small program would benefit us overall.  Personally,
>  I'm still keen on the idea of having someone from Marketing manage a
>  YouTube account and accept works that do the best job of showcasing
>  Fedora's capabilities. 
Well, as I see it... Most people don't actually separate the
contents/support from the channel of distribution. I mean... some of
this things are really weird (at a personal level, absurd would be a
better description). I am fond of using Youtube aswell, why? Because
most people use it. So... I'm cutting my digital TV service and go back
to RF technology because it deploys contents in über proprietary
technology? bah... sure... right...

As long as the content licenses are in our favor, I dont see why care
much about the platform for distribution.

Lets imagine this... I'm sponsoring 5K t-shirts with the Fedora
Foundation to ambassadors... I probably won't find no one to print them
out using OSS technology :( So, no t-shirts.

>  
>  4) I'm from outside of the community, but I think that lurking without
>  any engagement will discourage people from contributing ideas.  Taking
>  notes is important, but so is engagement. 
Same here, and sometimes it's really frustrating. I understand the
values, but I have to say that despite I don't like Ubuntu (and my main
reason should be clear to everyone, and its personal view... African
Words? Sure they contributed a lot to the Digital Era! _NOT_!), but as
product, I do support them to break some barriers that other community
seem to make a crusade of it. The bigger is the market penetration of a
product, the better. Sure we all earn from Canonical's ambitious moves
(August will be astonishing for what I've heard), but so far, they are
leading the way for all FOSS people. We will fail on "First" for sure
against Canonical from that perspective. 

>  
>  > Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and
>  have
>  > some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we
>  > actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide
>  segmented
>  > information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
>  
>  I think this is crucial, as it would illustrate how much Fedora values
>  its users and contributors. 
Same here. I do recon it might be hard to work with very extensive
materials, as some are for sure hard to forecast, but we should focus a
bit more. I'm going to give a quick example, and please dont attack me!
It's a valid reason... why are we working on stuff that is deeply
related to products that are in the end of the life time cycle? Waste of
time, NO... but we would earn more if we were working in future stuff.

I don't know exactly how to put up such a thing... but if anyone has
ideas, I'm listening and willing to help.

>  
>  Further thoughts, anyone?  
-- 
Nelson Marques
Evil Clown (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm)

[Nicholas Ozorak]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 16:03 -0400, Nicholas Ozorak wrote: 
> > 1)  I think material should unquestionably be provided.  It
> should
> > also be clear to content providers what they are permitted to use
> > (logos, screenshots, etc) without fear of repercussions.
>
>  The licensing is pretty good and useful for people to work, though about
>  logo's they have their own guidelines and from my point of view while we
>  should neglect some stuff, we should enforce time to time some
>  corrections on stuff that can be harmful to the brand itself.
>  
There should be some section somewhere that clearly states what can
and can't be used in videos, namely logos and screenshots.  That will
help to prevent confusion on the part of content creators.

> >
> > 2)  We should unquestionably show support for their work.  If they do
> > not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.
>
>  Indeed, but the main question is actually how should we provide such?
>  Should we contact authors who make freelance work and ask them if we can
>  distribute their work also? I mean, some of those videos are pretty
>  awesome, we could probably establish a protocol with people (or some
>  other non-formal way) to encourage their work, maybe before we make big
>  news public with our press releases, make the info available to known
>  media partners so they have something to work for? 
Providing feedback can be done through commenting on videos and
inviting content creators to the marketing list, as they may not
already be aware it exists.  If the content creators' work is not on
Internet Archive, asking them if we may redistribute their video may
not be a bad idea.

Keeping media partners in the loop (and ahead of it, in some ways)
would definitely be a good idea.  They could provide extra hype before
the official releases.

>  On a different perspective, I've represented Logitech in the past
>  (2002/2003). Logitech provides their partners (mainly their resellers,
>  their premier distribution channel for "Logitech", ignoring the great
>  core business in OEM) with very competitve advantages. Maybe we should
>  get to know some potential distribution channels for information and
>  think over on something that would allow them also to present good
>  information and giving them some time to work it out? 
Absolutely.

One such person who could potentially bring a lot of traffic to Fedora
is a man by the name of Chris Pirillo.  He's a YouTube vlogger who
talks about technology.  His YouTube channel is here:

http://www.youtube.com/lockergnome

With over 120,000 subscribers, contacting him about promoting Fedora
13 wouldn't be a bad place to start.

> >
> > 3) I think that a small program would benefit us overall.  Personally,
> > I'm still keen on the idea of having someone from Marketing manage a
> > YouTube account and accept works that do the best job of showcasing
> > Fedora's capabilities.
>
>  Well, as I see it... Most people don't actually separate the
>  contents/support from the channel of distribution. I mean... some of
>  this things are really weird (at a personal level, absurd would be a
>  better description). I am fond of using Youtube aswell, why? Because
>  most people use it. So... I'm cutting my digital TV service and go back
>  to RF technology because it deploys contents in über proprietary
>  technology? bah... sure... right...
>
>  As long as the content licenses are in our favor, I dont see why care
>  much about the platform for distribution.
>
>  Lets imagine this... I'm sponsoring 5K t-shirts with the Fedora
>  Foundation to ambassadors... I probably won't find no one to print them
>  out using OSS technology :( So, no t-shirts.
>
> >
> > 4) I'm from outside of the community, but I think that lurking without
> > any engagement will discourage people from contributing ideas.  Taking
> > notes is important, but so is engagement.
>
>  Same here, and sometimes it's really frustrating. I understand the
>  values, but I have to say that despite I don't like Ubuntu (and my main
>  reason should be clear to everyone, and its personal view... African
>  Words? Sure they contributed a lot to the Digital Era! _NOT_!), but as
>  product, I do support them to break some barriers that other community
>  seem to make a crusade of it. The bigger is the market penetration of a
>  product, the better. Sure we all earn from Canonical's ambitious moves
>  (August will be astonishing for what I've heard), but so far, they are
>  leading the way for all FOSS people. We will fail on "First" for sure
>  against Canonical from that perspective.
>
> >
> > > Can we for Fedora 14 work on feature profiles maybe earlier on and
> > have
> > > some material already prepared for people doing reviews? Should we
> > > actually start a program or campaign so that we can provide
> > segmented
> > > information for everyone who wants to do this kind of work?
> >
> > I think this is crucial, as it would illustrate how much Fedora values
> > its users and contributors.
>
>  Same here. I do recon it might be hard to work with very extensive
>  materials, as some are for sure hard to forecast, but we should focus a
>  bit more. I'm going to give a quick example, and please dont attack me!
>  It's a valid reason... why are we working on stuff that is deeply
>  related to products that are in the end of the life time cycle? Waste of
>  time, NO... but we would earn more if we were working in future stuff.
>
>  I don't know exactly how to put up such a thing... but if anyone has
>  ideas, I'm listening and willing to help. 
I, too, am willing to listen to other suggestions.  If anyone has
thoughts on the matter, please feel free to chime in.

Nick

[Nelson Marques]

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 11:44 -0400, Nicholas Ozorak wrote:

>  There should be some section somewhere that clearly states what can
>  and can't be used in videos, namely logos and screenshots.  That will
>  help to prevent confusion on the part of content creators. 
Though I do agree with this, usually such things will take creatives and
designers to shield behind "freedom" and see this as some kind of
*malefic* stuff that is planned to reduce their creativity.

This is one of the things that cracked my head a couple of times, as we
work mainly with free contributors. While in a corporation,
administration mandates are unquestionable and people do follow, on
communities such as our own, that's a very sensible area. I could've
saved myself some embarrassments in the past, though I believe I was
correct and was acting in the best interest of Fedora.

I will give a quick example off-topic:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_14

That's a list of contributions for Fedora 14 naming. One of them is
"Emancipation". Though I'm a strong supporter of emancipation, if such
naming is approved, countries in the Middle East will not be seeing this
with good eyes (supposing they are free of exporting blockades and
such). While it's armeless in the Western World, it is not a good choice
for other people. Sometimes pointing stuff like this gets me dubbed as a
negative person trying to bring a negative load into the team.

This is a very sensible area and though I would like to see Fedora and
other FOSS communities promoting such values, it might bring a harmful
load towards us.

Generally, yes, I will backup some restrictive guidelines, but on the
other hand, I do also want to backup creatives and contributors. I don't
know what other people think, but we sometimes get into weird stuff.


>  Providing feedback can be done through commenting on videos and
>  inviting content creators to the marketing list, as they may not
>  already be aware it exists.  If the content creators' work is not on
>  Internet Archive, asking them if we may redistribute their video may
>  not be a bad idea.
>  
>  Keeping media partners in the loop (and ahead of it, in some ways)
>  would definitely be a good idea.  They could provide extra hype before
>  the official releases. 
I think that the effort being done in the Feature Profiles might be a
good thing to backup this in a nearby future, as we can establishing
easily an evolution line related to the "commercial" product, and though
its free (no monetary involved), it's still commercial as we are selling
an experience. Media should back us up and we should provide them the
necessary knowledge. I've seen too much corrections around Fedora 13
already and mistakes being made by the media.

We are maybe failing in being more objective and providing them good
material for their work. Though our Wiki has tons of information, it
might not be correctly segmented for media research. 

I do hope Fedora Insight will provide a method to cover (at least
minimize) this gap.

But it's a +1, we need to provide more objective and accurate material
for the media.


>  Absolutely.
>  
>  One such person who could potentially bring a lot of traffic to Fedora
>  is a man by the name of Chris Pirillo.  He's a YouTube vlogger who
>  talks about technology.  His YouTube channel is here:
>  
>  http://www.youtube.com/lockergnome
>  
>  With over 120,000 subscribers, contacting him about promoting Fedora
>  13 wouldn't be a bad place to start. 
We rush once more into the H.264 problem and hostility towards
licences. 

Maybe contact him as ask him to be a partner of Fedora in Fedora
Insight? I am not sure on what the other people on the list have to say,
but that would be probably be something that wouldn't harm us.

I do love this idea of providing them information, or even ask them to
join us here so they can get some materials and information and even
follow our work. There is much they could use to develop their own work.

I would love to ear Fedora's Project Leader's words about this.


>  
>  I, too, am willing to listen to other suggestions.  If anyone has
>  thoughts on the matter, please feel free to chime in.
>  
>  Nick 
I subscribe Nick on this.

Nelson

-- 
Nelson Marques
Evil Clown (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm)

[Mel Chua]

>  There should be some section somewhere that clearly states what can
>  and can't be used in videos, namely logos and screenshots.  That will
>  help to prevent confusion on the part of content creators. 
We have http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines, and 
could always use feedback on how to make it clearer and easier to read. ;)

> >> 2)  We should unquestionably show support for their work.  If
> they do
> >> not receive any forms of feedback, they may lose interest.
> >
> > Indeed, but the main question is actually how should we provide such?
> > Should we contact authors who make freelance work and ask them if we can
> > distribute their work also? I mean, some of those videos are pretty
> > awesome, we could probably establish a protocol with people (or some
> > other non-formal way) to encourage their work, maybe before we make big
> > news public with our press releases, make the info available to known
> > media partners so they have something to work for?
>
>  Providing feedback can be done through commenting on videos and
>  inviting content creators to the marketing list, as they may not
>  already be aware it exists.  If the content creators' work is not on
>  Internet Archive, asking them if we may redistribute their video may
>  not be a bad idea. 
+1 to both here. I think, more than anything else, we need a person (or 
a group of people) to sit down and say "okay, there's some great video 
out there; we're going to take an hour to sprint and send emails to all 
the awesome Fedora video creators we find asking them if we can 
distribute their work, with instructions on how they can license their 
work so that we can do exactly that." Process is great if it helps 
people get stuff done, but ultimately someone's got to step up to do the 
doing. :)

>  Keeping media partners in the loop (and ahead of it, in some ways)
>  would definitely be a good idea.  They could provide extra hype before
>  the official releases. 
Yep. I think Zonker's Classroom session from yesterday had some 
excellent suggestions here.

>  One such person who could potentially bring a lot of traffic to
> Fedora
>  is a man by the name of Chris Pirillo.  He's a YouTube vlogger who
>  talks about technology.  His YouTube channel is here:
>
>  http://www.youtube.com/lockergnome
>
>  With over 120,000 subscribers, contacting him about promoting Fedora
>  13 wouldn't be a bad place to start. 
If someone does this, please Cc the list so the rest of us know what's 
going on (and Chris Pirillo doesn't get a dozen almost-identical 
messages from members of the Fedora Marketing team)!

These are great thoughts. How do we do something with them? :)

--Mel