Self-introduction: Aamir Aijaz Bhutto

[bhutto aamir]

Aamir Aijaz Bhutto
Karachi Pakistan

Marketing Director / Planing & Development
Friends Associates

My goal is to Spread this wonder full operating system around as much as i can and let
people know about this beautiful thing(Open-Source)

I want to know about fedora project as much as i can and to help around in making this
project from better to best.

Well i see fedora as a complete O/s. But still sometimes i use to boot my machine and load
some other O/S to play my favorite game :P I think we need to do a bit of work on Games.

I like to surf around, chatting (mostly on irc) participating in sci-tech exhibitions.

I have done Bechlor's of Commerce and Currently enrolled for Master's. Attended
several Sales/Marketing Confernces, Multi-Level-Makerting Training programs.(When i was
working for SCB Marketing Dept)

I dont know about my marketing level or type. But i do know enough about marketing, like
how to present or represent packages, how to attract people towards your product or how
find comstumers need. Well i guess its just an intro so i should keep it short and to the
point :)

[Mel Chua]

On 01/10/2010 03:24 PM, bhutto aamir wrote:
>  Aamir Aijaz Bhutto Karachi Pakistan
>  Marketing Director / Planing&  Development Friends Associates 
Welcome, Aamir!

>  Well i see fedora as a complete O/s. But still sometimes i use to
>  boot my machine and load some other O/S to play my favorite game :P I
>  think we need to do a bit of work on Games. 
There's a Games Spin, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Games_Spin and 
http://spins.fedoraproject.org/games/ - is marketing for this spin 
something you might be interested in taking a look at?

We'll be getting together for a FAD (Fedora Activity Day) in March, 
physically located in Raleigh, NC USA, but with a good deal of remote 
participation. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_FAD_2010 - if 
it's something you'd be interested in particpating in remotely, we'd 
love to have you.

Another good resource is #fedora-mktg. It's the chatroom where many of 
us hang out, and is a good place to get started meeting people and 
asking questions. Instructions on how to use IRC are at 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IRC in case you're new to it, and you can 
always ask questions on this mailing list any time.

The first thing to do is figure out a project to get started on helping 
with - the Games Spin is one thing you might want to look at, but there 
are several other initiatives going on that might be interesting. Rahul 
will be starting discussion on the idea of a Fedora handbook here soon, 
Robyn is going through our survey data from FUDCon as a first round 
through doing marketing research in Fedora, Ryan and Ankur are working 
on a guide program called fedora-tour, I and others are getting up a 
news/content portal called Fedora Insight, Sakis started some examples 
of User Stories, Henrik is working on a PR strategy... there are some 
links and explanations on 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing#Projects, and watching this 
mailing list and asking questions about ideas that go by is also a great 
way to get started.

Join the chatroom, pick a project to get started on, and we'll help you 
figure out the rest along the way. ;) Again, welcome!

--Mel

[Nicu Buculei]

On 01/11/2010 04:14 PM, Mel Chua wrote:
>  On 01/10/2010 03:24 PM, bhutto aamir wrote:
>
> > Well i see fedora as a complete O/s. But still sometimes i use to
> > boot my machine and load some other O/S to play my favorite game :P I
> > think we need to do a bit of work on Games.
>
>  There's a Games Spin, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Games_Spin and
>  http://spins.fedoraproject.org/games/ - is marketing for this spin
>  something you might be interested in taking a look at? 
Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game. There 
is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC at 
home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an 
ordinary game console).

Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good as 
possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games to 
Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large enough 
market share).

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/

[sai ganesh]

On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote

>  Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game.
> There
>  is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC at
>  home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an
>  ordinary game console).
>
>  
absolutely true i am a part of that league too.



>  Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good as
>  possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games to
>  Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large enough
>  market share).
>
>  --
>  
hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are releasing games
for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what about cedega?
may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of concern for
marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first thing they ask
is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a solution will be found
in the years to come.

> <[e-mail]><https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing>
>  

-- 
s.saiganesh
“The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong One. 'Do
it yourself'. Yes, that's it

[Athanasios E. Samaras]

Heeeeelo and welcome!
Since I have been around for almost 24 years now, I will tell you a story
about games on home micros (Spectrum/CBM64/CBM128/Arcon/Atari/Amiga) /
consoles (Atari 2000/Sony etc)/ Personal Computers (such as AMSTRAD
CPC/Commodore+ /QL+ etc) / IBM Compatible Personal Computers (today's P.C.s)

It was back then (mid '80) that home micros got to the point when they could
support 4 colors out of a palette of 16 and offered the possibility to game
developers to create titles that could be acceptable by the market. Back
then the publishers had to maintain more than one development team
programming for different hardware platforms mainly under some assembler.
Each of the home micros had it's own capabilities and used a set of special
routines stored in ROM to expose functionality
(sound/graphics/input/joystick/midi etc) not to mention the full
incompatibility of file systems.
Back then it was just a dream to have an "engine" available for more any
platform that would enable developers to create games; it was all from
"scratch" for each hardware platform. By the time, developers managed to
create a functional code base (please do no think of objects) that enabled
them to include already tested code to perform some standard operations
(kind of functional functions library)  creating a layer of abstraction that
could be used to create the "back-bone" for the titles, but again had to be
either compiled or cross compiled for a specific target hardware. The
process was hard and costly. This was the reason that some publishers
targeted one or two platforms leaving the rest.
At later stages when the home micro category died, consoles was revived
together with IBM Compatible PCs. Some of us remember our first EGA video
addapter that actually supported 32 colors from a palette of 256 then came
VGA (256 colors and 640X480 resolution yeeeey), now first video cards
supported 2 colors (Hercules) or 4 colors (CGA) , but with 256 colors on
screen, it was a revolution so the developers that supported
Amiga/AtariST/CPC 64/CPC 128 found a new platform (with more RAM but less
hardware capabilities) that offered a common API available under a lot of
different languages and manufactured by various manufacturers all over the
world.
At the same time all the prices was dropping creating a potential large
market for software.
Since it is all about cost and ROI, it was more or less "default" to release
titles for Microsoft DOS (or IBM DOS initially) since this was the operating
system that IBM and other vendors include in their packages. Some of the
vendors still preferred to sell boxes without any operating system (you
could buy and use SCO unix, Thoroughbred and other strange acronyms).
When Linux came to O/S world, it was mainly a "toy" for hard-core
programmers  / unix users / students / universities. It was OPEN, something
you really could not find in other O/S. If something was broken, you could
take some time to fix it and then publish your fix for comments to the rest
of the world.
Through the time, Linux became a real desktop operating system (if I may, I
would say that Fedora together with Ubuntu and Knopix was the distros that
made that happen) .
All the above just to make a point: If we can convince Publishers to hire
some developers to port their engines to Linux, this would enable all the
rest of developers that use the engine to create a Linux release in a very
short time.
But then again it would not be open.
Maybe if the community could spin a project to provide a game engine that
would be open sourced and scriptable supporting open 3d graphics models etc.
Basically the same with Java or Flash based games but more close to the
hardware (imagine a full 64 bit game that could allocate and use more than 2
GB or RAM and "talk" to your GPU directly for rendering/pre-render etc).
Just a thought (and a lot of history)

Cheers

Sakis Samaras



On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:11 PM, sai ganesh <ganesai(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote
>
> > Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game. There
> > is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC at
> > home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an
> > ordinary game console).
> >
> >
>  absolutely true i am a part of that league too.
>
>
>
> > Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good as
> > possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games to
> > Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large enough
> > market share).
> >
> > --
> >
>  hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are releasing
>  games for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what about
>  cedega? may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of concern
>  for marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first thing they
>  ask is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a solution will be
>  found in the years to come.
>
> >
> <[e-mail]><https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing>
> >
>
>
>  --
>  s.saiganesh
>  “The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong One.
>  'Do it yourself'. Yes, that's it
>
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>

[Frankie Mangoa]

Hi Guys,
> From the message above I have deduced some solutions: 
1.we need
developers to create an environment similar to crossover by
default o the os where these games can run.
2.Have a special tea work on the development of this environment.This
is because this is something that will have to start on alpha.
3.Ask developers to also make the equivalent o linux.To be honest I
think highly unlikely because they will say the ROI is either slow or
0


all these will require a lot of work and thus according to me this are
the lines we can take .Maybe I am not seeing something that you are so
I will ask to have people send me more of their solutions.



frankie

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
<ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Heeeeelo and welcome!
>  Since I have been around for almost 24 years now, I will tell you a story
>  about games on home micros (Spectrum/CBM64/CBM128/Arcon/Atari/Amiga) /
>  consoles (Atari 2000/Sony etc)/ Personal Computers (such as AMSTRAD
>  CPC/Commodore+ /QL+ etc) / IBM Compatible Personal Computers (today's P.C.s)
>  It was back then (mid '80) that home micros got to the point when they could
>  support 4 colors out of a palette of 16 and offered the possibility to game
>  developers to create titles that could be acceptable by the market. Back
>  then the publishers had to maintain more than one development team
>  programming for different hardware platforms mainly under some assembler.
>  Each of the home micros had it's own capabilities and used a set of special
>  routines stored in ROM to expose functionality
>  (sound/graphics/input/joystick/midi etc) not to mention the full
>  incompatibility of file systems.
>  Back then it was just a dream to have an "engine" available for more any
>  platform that would enable developers to create games; it was all from
>  "scratch" for each hardware platform. By the time, developers managed to
>  create a functional code base (please do no think of objects) that enabled
>  them to include already tested code to perform some standard operations
>  (kind of functional functions library)  creating a layer of abstraction that
>  could be used to create the "back-bone" for the titles, but again had to be
>  either compiled or cross compiled for a specific target hardware. The
>  process was hard and costly. This was the reason that some publishers
>  targeted one or two platforms leaving the rest.
>  At later stages when the home micro category died, consoles was revived
>  together with IBM Compatible PCs. Some of us remember our first EGA video
>  addapter that actually supported 32 colors from a palette of 256 then came
>  VGA (256 colors and 640X480 resolution yeeeey), now first video cards
>  supported 2 colors (Hercules) or 4 colors (CGA) , but with 256 colors on
>  screen, it was a revolution so the developers that supported
>  Amiga/AtariST/CPC 64/CPC 128 found a new platform (with more RAM but less
>  hardware capabilities) that offered a common API available under a lot of
>  different languages and manufactured by various manufacturers all over the
>  world.
>  At the same time all the prices was dropping creating a potential large
>  market for software.
>  Since it is all about cost and ROI, it was more or less "default" to release
>  titles for Microsoft DOS (or IBM DOS initially) since this was the operating
>  system that IBM and other vendors include in their packages. Some of the
>  vendors still preferred to sell boxes without any operating system (you
>  could buy and use SCO unix, Thoroughbred and other strange acronyms).
>  When Linux came to O/S world, it was mainly a "toy" for hard-core
>  programmers  / unix users / students / universities. It was OPEN, something
>  you really could not find in other O/S. If something was broken, you could
>  take some time to fix it and then publish your fix for comments to the rest
>  of the world.
>  Through the time, Linux became a real desktop operating system (if I may, I
>  would say that Fedora together with Ubuntu and Knopix was the distros that
>  made that happen) .
>  All the above just to make a point: If we can convince Publishers to hire
>  some developers to port their engines to Linux, this would enable all the
>  rest of developers that use the engine to create a Linux release in a very
>  short time.
>  But then again it would not be open.
>  Maybe if the community could spin a project to provide a game engine that
>  would be open sourced and scriptable supporting open 3d graphics models etc.
>  Basically the same with Java or Flash based games but more close to the
>  hardware (imagine a full 64 bit game that could allocate and use more than 2
>  GB or RAM and "talk" to your GPU directly for rendering/pre-render etc).
>  Just a thought (and a lot of history)
>
>  Cheers
>
>  Sakis Samaras
>
>
>
>  On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:11 PM, sai ganesh <ganesai(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >
> > On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote
> >>
> >> Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game. There
> >> is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC at
> >> home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an
> >> ordinary game console).
> >>
> >
> > absolutely true i am a part of that league too.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good as
> >> possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games to
> >> Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large enough
> >> market share).
> >>
> >> --
> >
> > hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are releasing
> > games for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what about
> > cedega? may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of concern
> > for marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first thing they
> > ask is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a solution will be
> > found in the years to come.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > s.saiganesh
> > “The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong One.
> > 'Do it yourself'. Yes, that's it
> >
> >
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>

[Athanasios E. Samaras]

Maybe we could spin out a project to create a "proof-of-concept" ...

S

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Frankie Mangoa <frankiemangoa(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote:

>  Hi Guys,
>  >From the message above I have deduced some solutions:
>  1.we need developers to create an environment similar to crossover by
>  default o the os where these games can run.
>  2.Have a special tea work on the development of this environment.This
>  is because this is something that will have to start on alpha.
>  3.Ask developers to also make the equivalent o linux.To be honest I
>  think highly unlikely because they will say the ROI is either slow or
>  0
>
>
>  all these will require a lot of work and thus according to me this are
>  the lines we can take .Maybe I am not seeing something that you are so
>  I will ask to have people send me more of their solutions.
>
>
>
>  frankie
>
>  On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
>  <ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > Heeeeelo and welcome!
>  > Since I have been around for almost 24 years now, I will tell you a story
>  > about games on home micros (Spectrum/CBM64/CBM128/Arcon/Atari/Amiga) /
>  > consoles (Atari 2000/Sony etc)/ Personal Computers (such as AMSTRAD
>  > CPC/Commodore+ /QL+ etc) / IBM Compatible Personal Computers (today's
>  P.C.s)
>  > It was back then (mid '80) that home micros got to the point when they
>  could
>  > support 4 colors out of a palette of 16 and offered the possibility to
>  game
>  > developers to create titles that could be acceptable by the market. Back
>  > then the publishers had to maintain more than one development team
>  > programming for different hardware platforms mainly under some assembler.
>  > Each of the home micros had it's own capabilities and used a set of
>  special
>  > routines stored in ROM to expose functionality
>  > (sound/graphics/input/joystick/midi etc) not to mention the full
>  > incompatibility of file systems.
>  > Back then it was just a dream to have an "engine" available for more any
>  > platform that would enable developers to create games; it was all from
>  > "scratch" for each hardware platform. By the time, developers managed to
>  > create a functional code base (please do no think of objects) that
>  enabled
>  > them to include already tested code to perform some standard operations
>  > (kind of functional functions library)  creating a layer of abstraction
>  that
>  > could be used to create the "back-bone" for the titles, but again had to
>  be
>  > either compiled or cross compiled for a specific target hardware. The
>  > process was hard and costly. This was the reason that some publishers
>  > targeted one or two platforms leaving the rest.
>  > At later stages when the home micro category died, consoles was revived
>  > together with IBM Compatible PCs. Some of us remember our first EGA video
>  > addapter that actually supported 32 colors from a palette of 256 then
>  came
>  > VGA (256 colors and 640X480 resolution yeeeey), now first video cards
>  > supported 2 colors (Hercules) or 4 colors (CGA) , but with 256 colors on
>  > screen, it was a revolution so the developers that supported
>  > Amiga/AtariST/CPC 64/CPC 128 found a new platform (with more RAM but less
>  > hardware capabilities) that offered a common API available under a lot of
>  > different languages and manufactured by various manufacturers all over
>  the
>  > world.
>  > At the same time all the prices was dropping creating a potential large
>  > market for software.
>  > Since it is all about cost and ROI, it was more or less "default" to
>  release
>  > titles for Microsoft DOS (or IBM DOS initially) since this was the
>  operating
>  > system that IBM and other vendors include in their packages. Some of the
>  > vendors still preferred to sell boxes without any operating system (you
>  > could buy and use SCO unix, Thoroughbred and other strange acronyms).
>  > When Linux came to O/S world, it was mainly a "toy" for hard-core
>  > programmers  / unix users / students / universities. It was OPEN,
>  something
>  > you really could not find in other O/S. If something was broken, you
>  could
>  > take some time to fix it and then publish your fix for comments to the
>  rest
>  > of the world.
>  > Through the time, Linux became a real desktop operating system (if I may,
>  I
>  > would say that Fedora together with Ubuntu and Knopix was the distros
>  that
>  > made that happen) .
>  > All the above just to make a point: If we can convince Publishers to hire
>  > some developers to port their engines to Linux, this would enable all the
>  > rest of developers that use the engine to create a Linux release in a
>  very
>  > short time.
>  > But then again it would not be open.
>  > Maybe if the community could spin a project to provide a game engine that
>  > would be open sourced and scriptable supporting open 3d graphics models
>  etc.
>  > Basically the same with Java or Flash based games but more close to the
>  > hardware (imagine a full 64 bit game that could allocate and use more
>  than 2
>  > GB or RAM and "talk" to your GPU directly for rendering/pre-render etc).
>  > Just a thought (and a lot of history)
>  >
>  > Cheers
>  >
>  > Sakis Samaras
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:11 PM, sai ganesh <ganesai(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  >>
>  >> On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote
>  >>>
>  >>> Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game. There
>  >>> is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC at
>  >>> home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an
>  >>> ordinary game console).
>  >>>
>  >>
>  >> absolutely true i am a part of that league too.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>>
>  >>> Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good as
>  >>> possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games to
>  >>> Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large enough
>  >>> market share).
>  >>>
>  >>> --
>  >>
>  >> hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are releasing
>  >> games for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what
>  about
>  >> cedega? may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of
>  concern
>  >> for marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first thing
>  they
>  >> ask is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a solution will
> be
>  >> found in the years to come.
>  >>>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> --
>  >> s.saiganesh
>  >> “The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong
> One.
>  >> 'Do it yourself'. Yes, that's it
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> --
>  >> marketing mailing list
>  >> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > marketing mailing list
>  > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  >
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>

[Frankie Mangoa]

you nailed it on the head.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
<ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Maybe we could spin out a project to create a
> "proof-of-concept" ...
>
>  S
>
>  On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Frankie Mangoa <frankiemangoa(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> > >From the message above I have deduced some solutions:
> > 1.we need developers to create an environment similar to crossover by
> > default o the os where these games can run.
> > 2.Have a special tea work on the development of this environment.This
> > is because this is something that will have to start on alpha.
> > 3.Ask developers to also make the equivalent o linux.To be honest I
> > think highly unlikely because they will say the ROI is either slow or
> > 0
> >
> >
> > all these will require a lot of work and thus according to me this are
> > the lines we can take .Maybe I am not seeing something that you are so
> > I will ask to have people send me more of their solutions.
> >
> >
> >
> > frankie
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
> > <ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > > Heeeeelo and welcome!
> > > Since I have been around for almost 24 years now, I will tell you a
> > > story
> > > about games on home micros (Spectrum/CBM64/CBM128/Arcon/Atari/Amiga) /
> > > consoles (Atari 2000/Sony etc)/ Personal Computers (such as AMSTRAD
> > > CPC/Commodore+ /QL+ etc) / IBM Compatible Personal Computers (today's
> > > P.C.s)
> > > It was back then (mid '80) that home micros got to the point when they
> > > could
> > > support 4 colors out of a palette of 16 and offered the possibility to
> > > game
> > > developers to create titles that could be acceptable by the market. Back
> > > then the publishers had to maintain more than one development team
> > > programming for different hardware platforms mainly under some
> > > assembler.
> > > Each of the home micros had it's own capabilities and used a set of
> > > special
> > > routines stored in ROM to expose functionality
> > > (sound/graphics/input/joystick/midi etc) not to mention the full
> > > incompatibility of file systems.
> > > Back then it was just a dream to have an "engine" available for more
> any
> > > platform that would enable developers to create games; it was all from
> > > "scratch" for each hardware platform. By the time, developers managed
> to
> > > create a functional code base (please do no think of objects) that
> > > enabled
> > > them to include already tested code to perform some standard operations
> > > (kind of functional functions library)  creating a layer of abstraction
> > > that
> > > could be used to create the "back-bone" for the titles, but again had
> to
> > > be
> > > either compiled or cross compiled for a specific target hardware. The
> > > process was hard and costly. This was the reason that some publishers
> > > targeted one or two platforms leaving the rest.
> > > At later stages when the home micro category died, consoles was revived
> > > together with IBM Compatible PCs. Some of us remember our first EGA
> > > video
> > > addapter that actually supported 32 colors from a palette of 256 then
> > > came
> > > VGA (256 colors and 640X480 resolution yeeeey), now first video cards
> > > supported 2 colors (Hercules) or 4 colors (CGA) , but with 256 colors on
> > > screen, it was a revolution so the developers that supported
> > > Amiga/AtariST/CPC 64/CPC 128 found a new platform (with more RAM but
> > > less
> > > hardware capabilities) that offered a common API available under a lot
> > > of
> > > different languages and manufactured by various manufacturers all over
> > > the
> > > world.
> > > At the same time all the prices was dropping creating a potential large
> > > market for software.
> > > Since it is all about cost and ROI, it was more or less "default" to
> > > release
> > > titles for Microsoft DOS (or IBM DOS initially) since this was the
> > > operating
> > > system that IBM and other vendors include in their packages. Some of the
> > > vendors still preferred to sell boxes without any operating system (you
> > > could buy and use SCO unix, Thoroughbred and other strange acronyms).
> > > When Linux came to O/S world, it was mainly a "toy" for hard-core
> > > programmers  / unix users / students / universities. It was OPEN,
> > > something
> > > you really could not find in other O/S. If something was broken, you
> > > could
> > > take some time to fix it and then publish your fix for comments to the
> > > rest
> > > of the world.
> > > Through the time, Linux became a real desktop operating system (if I
> > > may, I
> > > would say that Fedora together with Ubuntu and Knopix was the distros
> > > that
> > > made that happen) .
> > > All the above just to make a point: If we can convince Publishers to
> > > hire
> > > some developers to port their engines to Linux, this would enable all
> > > the
> > > rest of developers that use the engine to create a Linux release in a
> > > very
> > > short time.
> > > But then again it would not be open.
> > > Maybe if the community could spin a project to provide a game engine
> > > that
> > > would be open sourced and scriptable supporting open 3d graphics models
> > > etc.
> > > Basically the same with Java or Flash based games but more close to the
> > > hardware (imagine a full 64 bit game that could allocate and use more
> > > than 2
> > > GB or RAM and "talk" to your GPU directly for rendering/pre-render
> etc).
> > > Just a thought (and a lot of history)
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Sakis Samaras
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:11 PM, sai ganesh <ganesai(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote
> > >>>
> > >>> Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game.
> > >>> There
> > >>> is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC at
> > >>> home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an
> > >>> ordinary game console).
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> absolutely true i am a part of that league too.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good as
> > >>> possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games to
> > >>> Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large enough
> > >>> market share).
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>
> > >> hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are releasing
> > >> games for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what
> > >> about
> > >> cedega? may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of
> > >> concern
> > >> for marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first thing
> > >> they
> > >> ask is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a solution
> will
> > >> be
> > >> found in the years to come.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> s.saiganesh
> > >> “The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong
> > >> One.
> > >> 'Do it yourself'. Yes, that's it
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> marketing mailing list
> > >> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > marketing mailing list
> > > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> > >
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>

[Robyn Bergeron]

Just off the top of my head...

I did some research on a project revolving around a video-game concept
a few years back.  Long story short, one of the interesting things I
found was that many APAC countries have a LOT of gamers using games
that most europeans and americans have not heard of - with HUGE
subscription rates.  However, unlike the US, where a big company might
charge $15-20 a month for a subscription, these games are charging, in
comparison, very low fees - $1 - $5 a month - because their end users
in those countries do not have the same average income as Europe /
Americas users do.

These gamers are the ones who would directly benefit from a free OS -
and the software developers would certainly widen their pool of
available users if they were developing games to run on a linux
platform, thereby increasing their subscription revenues.

So while I don't have anything USEFUL here - you know, like the names
of the games or the companies developing them, which would obviously
be helpful - maybe that would be a good place to start researching
companies that might be interested in developing games for Linux (or
may already be, and would be interested in perhaps collaborating with
Fedora on how to make those end-users' experiences better).

Some google search terms you might try out are

* most popular online games South Korea
(insert other country names as needed)

* online game revenues (country here)

* MMORPG popular (country here)

... See if you can narrow down the field to some specific Games, or
companies, that might be using Linux, or might be a good target to
work witha  company on converting them.  And in the meantime, develop
a set of "why developing games to run on Linux is a good idea" that
could be pitched to those companies.

-robyn



On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Frankie Mangoa
<frankiemangoa(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  you nailed it on the head.
>
>  On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
>  <ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > Maybe we could spin out a project to create a "proof-of-concept" ...
> >
> > S
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Frankie Mangoa <frankiemangoa(a)gmail.com&gt;
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Guys,
> >> >From the message above I have deduced some solutions:
> >> 1.we need developers to create an environment similar to crossover by
> >> default o the os where these games can run.
> >> 2.Have a special tea work on the development of this environment.This
> >> is because this is something that will have to start on alpha.
> >> 3.Ask developers to also make the equivalent o linux.To be honest I
> >> think highly unlikely because they will say the ROI is either slow or
> >> 0
> >>
> >>
> >> all these will require a lot of work and thus according to me this are
> >> the lines we can take .Maybe I am not seeing something that you are so
> >> I will ask to have people send me more of their solutions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> frankie
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
> >> <ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >> > Heeeeelo and welcome!
> >> > Since I have been around for almost 24 years now, I will tell you a
> >> > story
> >> > about games on home micros (Spectrum/CBM64/CBM128/Arcon/Atari/Amiga) /
> >> > consoles (Atari 2000/Sony etc)/ Personal Computers (such as AMSTRAD
> >> > CPC/Commodore+ /QL+ etc) / IBM Compatible Personal Computers (today's
> >> > P.C.s)
> >> > It was back then (mid '80) that home micros got to the point when they
> >> > could
> >> > support 4 colors out of a palette of 16 and offered the possibility to
> >> > game
> >> > developers to create titles that could be acceptable by the market. Back
> >> > then the publishers had to maintain more than one development team
> >> > programming for different hardware platforms mainly under some
> >> > assembler.
> >> > Each of the home micros had it's own capabilities and used a set of
> >> > special
> >> > routines stored in ROM to expose functionality
> >> > (sound/graphics/input/joystick/midi etc) not to mention the full
> >> > incompatibility of file systems.
> >> > Back then it was just a dream to have an "engine" available for
> more any
> >> > platform that would enable developers to create games; it was all from
> >> > "scratch" for each hardware platform. By the time, developers
> managed to
> >> > create a functional code base (please do no think of objects) that
> >> > enabled
> >> > them to include already tested code to perform some standard operations
> >> > (kind of functional functions library)  creating a layer of abstraction
> >> > that
> >> > could be used to create the "back-bone" for the titles, but again
> had to
> >> > be
> >> > either compiled or cross compiled for a specific target hardware. The
> >> > process was hard and costly. This was the reason that some publishers
> >> > targeted one or two platforms leaving the rest.
> >> > At later stages when the home micro category died, consoles was revived
> >> > together with IBM Compatible PCs. Some of us remember our first EGA
> >> > video
> >> > addapter that actually supported 32 colors from a palette of 256 then
> >> > came
> >> > VGA (256 colors and 640X480 resolution yeeeey), now first video cards
> >> > supported 2 colors (Hercules) or 4 colors (CGA) , but with 256 colors on
> >> > screen, it was a revolution so the developers that supported
> >> > Amiga/AtariST/CPC 64/CPC 128 found a new platform (with more RAM but
> >> > less
> >> > hardware capabilities) that offered a common API available under a lot
> >> > of
> >> > different languages and manufactured by various manufacturers all over
> >> > the
> >> > world.
> >> > At the same time all the prices was dropping creating a potential large
> >> > market for software.
> >> > Since it is all about cost and ROI, it was more or less "default"
> to
> >> > release
> >> > titles for Microsoft DOS (or IBM DOS initially) since this was the
> >> > operating
> >> > system that IBM and other vendors include in their packages. Some of the
> >> > vendors still preferred to sell boxes without any operating system (you
> >> > could buy and use SCO unix, Thoroughbred and other strange acronyms).
> >> > When Linux came to O/S world, it was mainly a "toy" for hard-core
> >> > programmers  / unix users / students / universities. It was OPEN,
> >> > something
> >> > you really could not find in other O/S. If something was broken, you
> >> > could
> >> > take some time to fix it and then publish your fix for comments to the
> >> > rest
> >> > of the world.
> >> > Through the time, Linux became a real desktop operating system (if I
> >> > may, I
> >> > would say that Fedora together with Ubuntu and Knopix was the distros
> >> > that
> >> > made that happen) .
> >> > All the above just to make a point: If we can convince Publishers to
> >> > hire
> >> > some developers to port their engines to Linux, this would enable all
> >> > the
> >> > rest of developers that use the engine to create a Linux release in a
> >> > very
> >> > short time.
> >> > But then again it would not be open.
> >> > Maybe if the community could spin a project to provide a game engine
> >> > that
> >> > would be open sourced and scriptable supporting open 3d graphics models
> >> > etc.
> >> > Basically the same with Java or Flash based games but more close to the
> >> > hardware (imagine a full 64 bit game that could allocate and use more
> >> > than 2
> >> > GB or RAM and "talk" to your GPU directly for rendering/pre-render
> etc).
> >> > Just a thought (and a lot of history)
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> >
> >> > Sakis Samaras
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:11 PM, sai ganesh <ganesai(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual* game.
> >> >>> There
> >> >>> is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows PC
> at
> >> >>> home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than an
> >> >>> ordinary game console).
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> absolutely true i am a part of that league too.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as good
> as
> >> >>> possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their games
> to
> >> >>> Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large
> enough
> >> >>> market share).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>
> >> >> hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are releasing
> >> >> games for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what
> >> >> about
> >> >> cedega? may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of
> >> >> concern
> >> >> for marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first thing
> >> >> they
> >> >> ask is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a
> solution will
> >> >> be
> >> >> found in the years to come.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> s.saiganesh
> >> >> “The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'. Oops.
> Wrong
> >> >> One.
> >> >> 'Do it yourself'. Yes, that's it
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> marketing mailing list
> >> >> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > marketing mailing list
> >> > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >> >
> >> --
> >> marketing mailing list
> >> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >
> >
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>

[Frankie Mangoa]

Hi guys,
please look at this.it seems we have people ahead of us already.

http://www.tuxgames.com/index.cgi?referrer=fb

frankie

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Robyn Bergeron
<robyn.bergeron(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Just off the top of my head...
>
>  I did some research on a project revolving around a video-game concept
>  a few years back.  Long story short, one of the interesting things I
>  found was that many APAC countries have a LOT of gamers using games
>  that most europeans and americans have not heard of - with HUGE
>  subscription rates.  However, unlike the US, where a big company might
>  charge $15-20 a month for a subscription, these games are charging, in
>  comparison, very low fees - $1 - $5 a month - because their end users
>  in those countries do not have the same average income as Europe /
>  Americas users do.
>
>  These gamers are the ones who would directly benefit from a free OS -
>  and the software developers would certainly widen their pool of
>  available users if they were developing games to run on a linux
>  platform, thereby increasing their subscription revenues.
>
>  So while I don't have anything USEFUL here - you know, like the names
>  of the games or the companies developing them, which would obviously
>  be helpful - maybe that would be a good place to start researching
>  companies that might be interested in developing games for Linux (or
>  may already be, and would be interested in perhaps collaborating with
>  Fedora on how to make those end-users' experiences better).
>
>  Some google search terms you might try out are
>
>  * most popular online games South Korea
>  (insert other country names as needed)
>
>  * online game revenues (country here)
>
>  * MMORPG popular (country here)
>
>  ... See if you can narrow down the field to some specific Games, or
>  companies, that might be using Linux, or might be a good target to
>  work witha  company on converting them.  And in the meantime, develop
>  a set of "why developing games to run on Linux is a good idea" that
>  could be pitched to those companies.
>
>  -robyn
>
>
>
>  On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Frankie Mangoa
>  <frankiemangoa(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > you nailed it on the head.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
> > <ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >> Maybe we could spin out a project to create a "proof-of-concept" ...
> >>
> >> S
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Frankie Mangoa <frankiemangoa(a)gmail.com&gt;
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Guys,
> >>> >From the message above I have deduced some solutions:
> >>> 1.we need developers to create an environment similar to crossover by
> >>> default o the os where these games can run.
> >>> 2.Have a special tea work on the development of this environment.This
> >>> is because this is something that will have to start on alpha.
> >>> 3.Ask developers to also make the equivalent o linux.To be honest I
> >>> think highly unlikely because they will say the ROI is either slow or
> >>> 0
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> all these will require a lot of work and thus according to me this are
> >>> the lines we can take .Maybe I am not seeing something that you are so
> >>> I will ask to have people send me more of their solutions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> frankie
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Athanasios E. Samaras
> >>> <ath.samaras(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >>> > Heeeeelo and welcome!
> >>> > Since I have been around for almost 24 years now, I will tell you a
> >>> > story
> >>> > about games on home micros (Spectrum/CBM64/CBM128/Arcon/Atari/Amiga) /
> >>> > consoles (Atari 2000/Sony etc)/ Personal Computers (such as AMSTRAD
> >>> > CPC/Commodore+ /QL+ etc) / IBM Compatible Personal Computers
> (today's
> >>> > P.C.s)
> >>> > It was back then (mid '80) that home micros got to the point when
> they
> >>> > could
> >>> > support 4 colors out of a palette of 16 and offered the possibility to
> >>> > game
> >>> > developers to create titles that could be acceptable by the market.
> Back
> >>> > then the publishers had to maintain more than one development team
> >>> > programming for different hardware platforms mainly under some
> >>> > assembler.
> >>> > Each of the home micros had it's own capabilities and used a set of
> >>> > special
> >>> > routines stored in ROM to expose functionality
> >>> > (sound/graphics/input/joystick/midi etc) not to mention the full
> >>> > incompatibility of file systems.
> >>> > Back then it was just a dream to have an "engine" available
> for more any
> >>> > platform that would enable developers to create games; it was all from
> >>> > "scratch" for each hardware platform. By the time, developers
> managed to
> >>> > create a functional code base (please do no think of objects) that
> >>> > enabled
> >>> > them to include already tested code to perform some standard operations
> >>> > (kind of functional functions library)  creating a layer of abstraction
> >>> > that
> >>> > could be used to create the "back-bone" for the titles, but
> again had to
> >>> > be
> >>> > either compiled or cross compiled for a specific target hardware. The
> >>> > process was hard and costly. This was the reason that some publishers
> >>> > targeted one or two platforms leaving the rest.
> >>> > At later stages when the home micro category died, consoles was revived
> >>> > together with IBM Compatible PCs. Some of us remember our first EGA
> >>> > video
> >>> > addapter that actually supported 32 colors from a palette of 256 then
> >>> > came
> >>> > VGA (256 colors and 640X480 resolution yeeeey), now first video cards
> >>> > supported 2 colors (Hercules) or 4 colors (CGA) , but with 256 colors
> on
> >>> > screen, it was a revolution so the developers that supported
> >>> > Amiga/AtariST/CPC 64/CPC 128 found a new platform (with more RAM but
> >>> > less
> >>> > hardware capabilities) that offered a common API available under a lot
> >>> > of
> >>> > different languages and manufactured by various manufacturers all over
> >>> > the
> >>> > world.
> >>> > At the same time all the prices was dropping creating a potential large
> >>> > market for software.
> >>> > Since it is all about cost and ROI, it was more or less
> "default" to
> >>> > release
> >>> > titles for Microsoft DOS (or IBM DOS initially) since this was the
> >>> > operating
> >>> > system that IBM and other vendors include in their packages. Some of
> the
> >>> > vendors still preferred to sell boxes without any operating system (you
> >>> > could buy and use SCO unix, Thoroughbred and other strange acronyms).
> >>> > When Linux came to O/S world, it was mainly a "toy" for
> hard-core
> >>> > programmers  / unix users / students / universities. It was OPEN,
> >>> > something
> >>> > you really could not find in other O/S. If something was broken, you
> >>> > could
> >>> > take some time to fix it and then publish your fix for comments to the
> >>> > rest
> >>> > of the world.
> >>> > Through the time, Linux became a real desktop operating system (if I
> >>> > may, I
> >>> > would say that Fedora together with Ubuntu and Knopix was the distros
> >>> > that
> >>> > made that happen) .
> >>> > All the above just to make a point: If we can convince Publishers to
> >>> > hire
> >>> > some developers to port their engines to Linux, this would enable all
> >>> > the
> >>> > rest of developers that use the engine to create a Linux release in a
> >>> > very
> >>> > short time.
> >>> > But then again it would not be open.
> >>> > Maybe if the community could spin a project to provide a game engine
> >>> > that
> >>> > would be open sourced and scriptable supporting open 3d graphics models
> >>> > etc.
> >>> > Basically the same with Java or Flash based games but more close to the
> >>> > hardware (imagine a full 64 bit game that could allocate and use more
> >>> > than 2
> >>> > GB or RAM and "talk" to your GPU directly for
> rendering/pre-render etc).
> >>> > Just a thought (and a lot of history)
> >>> >
> >>> > Cheers
> >>> >
> >>> > Sakis Samaras
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:11 PM, sai ganesh <ganesai(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On 01/11/2010 8:21 PM Nicu Buculei wrote
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Note he said *favorite* game, not *some* game or a *casual*
> game.
> >>> >>> There
> >>> >>> is this category of users (I am part of it) for whom a Windows
> PC at
> >>> >>> home is pretty much a game console (but with better games than
> an
> >>> >>> ordinary game console).
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> absolutely true i am a part of that league too.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Unfortunately here we can't do much beyond getting an as
> good as
> >>> >>> possible Wine, is all about 3-rd party entities porting their
> games to
> >>> >>> Linux (some argue this will happen when Linux will have a large
> enough
> >>> >>> market share).
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> --
> >>> >>
> >>> >> hope the days are not far away where 3-rd party entities are
> releasing
> >>> >> games for linux. i think quake 3 is already a member of it.and what
> >>> >> about
> >>> >> cedega? may that can help a little.i think this is the only area of
> >>> >> concern
> >>> >> for marketing linux to students who happen to be gamers.the first
> thing
> >>> >> they
> >>> >> ask is "can i play call of duty 4 in linux".hopefully a
> solution will
> >>> >> be
> >>> >> found in the years to come.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> s.saiganesh
> >>> >> “The Linux philosophy is 'Laugh in the face of danger'.
> Oops. Wrong
> >>> >> One.
> >>> >> 'Do it yourself'. Yes, that's it
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> marketing mailing list
> >>> >> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >>> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > marketing mailing list
> >>> > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >>> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >>> >
> >>> --
> >>> marketing mailing list
> >>> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> marketing mailing list
> >> marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >>
> > --
> > marketing mailing list
> > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>