Fwd: Re: Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

[Mel Chua]

Forwarded with Michael Tiemann's permission. The short version: should 
we look into (1) figuring out an optional (opt-in, I'd suggest) tweak to 
get Fedora-specific search results when looking for Linux howtos, and/or 
(2) SEO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization) at 
some point?

--Mel

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:13:05 -0500
From: Michael Tiemann

Kara Schiltz wrote:
> Computerworld
> 12.16.09
>
> Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
>
> [clip]
>
> Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me
> as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
> contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
> going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro
> for you.

I just installed Fedora 12 (DVD iso x86_64) this past weekend on a very
hostile piece of hardware: an old MacBookPro version 2,1.  By hostile I
mean that it's now old enough to reject the installation of modern
versions of Mac OSX.  The installation process went perfectly smoothly
until it was time to reboot, and that failed because the MBR and/or the
GPT has a "bootable" flag that needed to be reset.  I reset the flag,
and then grub failed.  Some googling led me to question whether my ext4
boot partition was really a proper choice, and when I backed up /boot to 
some temp space in my rescued filesystem image, reformatted /boot as
ext2, and restored the contents, everything worked perfectly
thereafter.  WIN!

What does this have to do with Ubuntu, the implied distro for non-power 
users, you might ask?

I have yet to find a way to search via Google for answers to my Fedora
problems without Ubuntu being a prominent, if not nearly exclusive
search result.  Well, that's not quite true...by adding +fedora -ubuntu
I start to get the kinds of results I'm looking for, but by golly for
all that Google is supposed to be my Big Brother, it keeps trying to
lead me away from Fedora and over to Ubuntu.

If there were some way to make technical support help focus on the OS
installed on one's machine, I think we'd find at least a level playing
field.  Any way we could set up Mozilla preferences (and other browsers) 
to treat "Linux" like Fedora?

M

Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

[Robyn Bergeron]

A few "first blush" thoughts, I'll think more on this though:

1) Tiemann's idea on setting preferences to treat "linux" as "fedora"
is interesting.  One problem I can see with that is that if the
browser with the preferences is, say, not yet installed because the
user is going through some process similar to what he's went through
below, and they happen to be a first-time user or this is (or going to
be) their only Fedora machine, then they're defaulting to going and
using google on their "other" machine, which isn't going to have those
preferences anyhow.

2) Unless we make the distinction -VERY VERY- clear when people are
installing that we are going to be slightly altering their google
results via some set preference, I could see a lot of community uproar
over this, particularly from developers who are developing / testing
on multiple platforms, who don't necessarily want to have fedora-tuned
results.

3) All that said - rather than changing preferences, doing something
like a Fedora toolbar that is a plug-in to the browser might be a
better idea. We could probably include a google search box that would
tune search results, links to community "stuff" like mailing lists and
documentation, etc. (And Fedora Insight!)  We could recommend that
people install it (a) when they're installing the Fedora OS, and/or
(b) when they're downloading it, quite possibly from a machine that is
-not- the machine they will be installing it on,  and would be the
machine they would be consulting in the very unlikely situation that
they do not have a flawless installation. :)  ie: "Installing Fedora?
We don't anticipate that you'll need our help. But if you do, this
toolbar has the magic."

4) SEO -never- hurts.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mel Chua  wrote:
> Forwarded with Michael Tiemann's permission. The short version: should we
> look into (1) figuring out an optional (opt-in, I'd suggest) tweak to get
> Fedora-specific search results when looking for Linux howtos, and/or (2) SEO
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization) at some point?
>
> --Mel
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:13:05 -0500
> From: Michael Tiemann
>
> Kara Schiltz wrote:
> > Computerworld
> > 12.16.09
> >
> > Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> > By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
> >
> > [clip]
> >
> > Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me
> > as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
> > contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
> > going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro
> > for you.
>
> I just installed Fedora 12 (DVD iso x86_64) this past weekend on a very
> hostile piece of hardware: an old MacBookPro version 2,1.  By hostile I
> mean that it's now old enough to reject the installation of modern
> versions of Mac OSX.  The installation process went perfectly smoothly
> until it was time to reboot, and that failed because the MBR and/or the
> GPT has a "bootable" flag that needed to be reset.  I reset the flag,
> and then grub failed.  Some googling led me to question whether my ext4
> boot partition was really a proper choice, and when I backed up /boot to
> some temp space in my rescued filesystem image, reformatted /boot as
> ext2, and restored the contents, everything worked perfectly
> thereafter.  WIN!
>
> What does this have to do with Ubuntu, the implied distro for non-power
> users, you might ask?
>
> I have yet to find a way to search via Google for answers to my Fedora
> problems without Ubuntu being a prominent, if not nearly exclusive
> search result.  Well, that's not quite true...by adding +fedora -ubuntu
> I start to get the kinds of results I'm looking for, but by golly for
> all that Google is supposed to be my Big Brother, it keeps trying to
> lead me away from Fedora and over to Ubuntu.
>
> If there were some way to make technical support help focus on the OS
> installed on one's machine, I think we'd find at least a level playing
> field.  Any way we could set up Mozilla preferences (and other browsers) to
> treat "Linux" like Fedora?
>
> M
>
> --
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>
> The structure of world peace cannot be the work of one man, or one
> party, or one nation...it must be a peace which rests on the cooperative
> effort of the whole world. -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
>
> Part of the tragedy is of the artist is that there is no real goal in
> achieving what you are naturally good at. The real satisfaction lies in
> the things you accomplish by practice and effort.
>  -- Joris van den Berg, commenting on the death of H. Cartier Bresson
>
> Dream so big you can share -- me
>
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> [e-mail]
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Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

[inode0]

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Mel Chua  wrote:
> Forwarded with Michael Tiemann's permission. The short version: should we
> look into (1) figuring out an optional (opt-in, I'd suggest) tweak to get
> Fedora-specific search results when looking for Linux howtos, and/or (2) SEO
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization) at some point?
>
> --Mel
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:13:05 -0500
> From: Michael Tiemann
>
> Kara Schiltz wrote:
> > Computerworld
> > 12.16.09
> >
> > Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> > By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
> >
> > [clip]
> >
> > Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me
> > as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
> > contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
> > going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro
> > for you.
>
> I just installed Fedora 12 (DVD iso x86_64) this past weekend on a very
> hostile piece of hardware: an old MacBookPro version 2,1.  By hostile I
> mean that it's now old enough to reject the installation of modern
> versions of Mac OSX.  The installation process went perfectly smoothly
> until it was time to reboot, and that failed because the MBR and/or the
> GPT has a "bootable" flag that needed to be reset.  I reset the flag,
> and then grub failed.  Some googling led me to question whether my ext4
> boot partition was really a proper choice, and when I backed up /boot to
> some temp space in my rescued filesystem image, reformatted /boot as
> ext2, and restored the contents, everything worked perfectly
> thereafter.  WIN!
>
> What does this have to do with Ubuntu, the implied distro for non-power
> users, you might ask?
>
> I have yet to find a way to search via Google for answers to my Fedora
> problems without Ubuntu being a prominent, if not nearly exclusive
> search result.  Well, that's not quite true...by adding +fedora -ubuntu
> I start to get the kinds of results I'm looking for, but by golly for
> all that Google is supposed to be my Big Brother, it keeps trying to
> lead me away from Fedora and over to Ubuntu.
>
> If there were some way to make technical support help focus on the OS
> installed on one's machine, I think we'd find at least a level playing
> field.  Any way we could set up Mozilla preferences (and other browsers) to
> treat "Linux" like Fedora?

I've been meaning to reply to this for a while and was reminded again
tonight when reading

http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/gnome-desktop-full-of-files-director...

As a Fedora user I occasionally encounter some problem, usually fairly
obscure. I search and occasionally find a solution embedded in some
similar problem encountered by someone using Ubuntu or another
distribution. I can see how from a marketing perspective it might be
nice if I found a solution to my problem on a Fedora related link but
the truth is that as a user I really don't care. I have a problem I
want solved, I really just want the fastest access to the solution so
I can move on. And I write it off as those other guys have so many
people having problems it is just natural that I'd find the resolution
on one of their links.

Without knowing whether the solution actually did exist on a Fedora
link I would be very much against changing the search behavior that we
have now. I like finding answers more than seeing Fedora related links
especially in the negative context of having problems.

On the plus side have you ever checked the number of Google matches
for the following?

I hate Ubuntu - about 6,420,000
I hate Fedora - about 364,000

Maybe the fact that we can't find problems on Fedora links isn't
really such a bad thing.

John