Hi, I'd like to ask others for advice. As you may know, I'm maintaining the Fedora Project page at Google+. And I have a problem with a troll :) There is a guy who started posting a "WINDOWS 8 POWER!" message under every post we have on our page. It's pretty much spamming and it leads discussions on our page to unwanted directions because people of course feed the troll.
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think it crosses the line and banning is an appropriate reaction or should I let him be and hope that he'll stop doing it (although he can do it for months because it's nothing time taking)?
Jiri
Hi, banning is not a good way IMHO. If you begin to ban, for any reason, people can think that this is your way to handle issues when you're in trouble. I prefer the admin makes a public advice, pointing out that he's a troll, telling him that next posts will be erased if he will not stop.
Gabri
Il giorno mar, 18/12/2012 alle 15.30 +0100, Jiri Eischmann ha scritto: [cut]
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think it crosses the line and banning is an appropriate reaction or should I let him be and hope that he'll stop doing it (although he can do it for months because it's nothing time taking)?
Jiri
Hi, banning is not a good way IMHO. If you begin to ban, for any reason, people can think that this is your way to handle issues when you're in trouble. I prefer the admin makes a public advice pointing out that he's a troll and telling him that next posts will be erased if he will not stop.
Gabri
On 18.12.2012 13:12, Gabriele Trombini wrote:
Hi, banning is not a good way IMHO. If you begin to ban, for any reason, people can think that this is your way to handle issues when you're in trouble. I prefer the admin makes a public advice, pointing out that he's a troll, telling him that next posts will be erased if he will not stop.
again, banning in social media is different from other eco-systems - and is normally not a good way - because this gives them a challenge to come back and it gives them too much attention ;) - i think we give him too much attention already ;)
And IMHO, if you really have to block or ban him, do it with less excitement around it as possible - because trolls are emotional atrophied people and will love the fuss
cu Joerg
You're right, trolls like to be in the spotlight, but we have to show our presence otherwise everything may appear allowed. How we can do that?
Gabri
Il giorno mar, 18/12/2012 alle 16.53 +0100, Joerg Simon ha scritto:
And IMHO, if you really have to block or ban him, do it with less excitement around it as possible - because trolls are emotional atrophied people and will love the fuss
cu Joerg
On 18.12.2012 13:45, Gabriele Trombini wrote:
You're right, trolls like to be in the spotlight, but we have to show our presence otherwise everything may appear allowed. How we can do that?
if the other "community" member take it either with humor or ignore him, he will disappear sooner - or if not he will disappear later ;)
Hi,
2012/12/18 Joerg Simon jsimon@fedoraproject.org
On 18.12.2012 13:12, Gabriele Trombini wrote:
Hi, banning is not a good way IMHO. If you begin to ban, for any reason, people can think that this is your way to handle issues when you're in trouble. I prefer the admin makes a public advice, pointing out that he's a troll, telling him that next posts will be erased if he will not stop.
again, banning in social media is different from other eco-systems - and is normally not a good way - because this gives them a challenge to come back and it gives them too much attention ;) - i think we give him too much attention already ;)
And IMHO, if you really have to block or ban him, do it with less excitement around it as possible - because trolls are emotional atrophied people and will love the fuss
Joerg it will be hard on google+ to come back with another identity
br gnokii
cu Joerg
Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon@fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon http://kitall.blogspot.com Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
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On 18.12.2012 16:58, S.Kemter wrote:
Joerg it will be hard on google+ to come back with another identity
ah, it is not - you just need a fake-email somewhere else to create it - but ... ok i made my point - going back in idle mode ;)
I manage the India page on Google plus and trolls are a big problem there too. You should message him privately, if he still doesn't respond then ban him. Do not report him as that may be a problem. On 18 Dec 2012 20:01, "Jiri Eischmann" eischmann@redhat.com wrote:
Hi, I'd like to ask others for advice. As you may know, I'm maintaining the Fedora Project page at Google+. And I have a problem with a troll :) There is a guy who started posting a "WINDOWS 8 POWER!" message under every post we have on our page. It's pretty much spamming and it leads discussions on our page to unwanted directions because people of course feed the troll.
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think it crosses the line and banning is an appropriate reaction or should I let him be and hope that he'll stop doing it (although he can do it for months because it's nothing time taking)?
Jiri
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On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 03:30:51PM +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think
Ban him. This isn't censorship, because the troll isn't taking part in any sort of dialog. It just hijacks the real conversation. If he wants to have a Windows 8 fan club on Google+, that's fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" mattdm@fedoraproject.org To: "Fedora Marketing team" marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:57:23 PM Subject: Re: How to treat trolls
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 03:30:51PM +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think
Ban him. This isn't censorship, because the troll isn't taking part in any sort of dialog. It just hijacks the real conversation. If he wants to have a Windows 8 fan club on Google+, that's fine.
+1. Ban him. We did that in a lot of similar cases in our local community. It would not harm our reputation because of banning such that trolls.
Kind regards, Tuan
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Jiri Eischmann eischmann@redhat.com wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think it crosses the line and banning is an appropriate reaction or should I let him be and hope that he'll stop doing it (although he can do it for months because it's nothing time taking)?
I think you can: a. delete his comments b. warn him privately that we will take further actions if he persists c. ban/report him if everything else fail
On 18.12.2012 15:30, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think it crosses the line and banning is an appropriate reaction
i would not start troll hunting - mostly they feel challenged and come back with another identity from what i can see the responses from other community members are healthy and as long as there is no legal violation it will regulate naturally
cu Joerg
On Tue, 2012-12-18 at 15:30 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community.
I used to struggle with this myself, but over time realized that there's a difference between censorship and stopping someone who is a repeat harasser. E.g., at least in the US, you have a right to free speech but you can't scream 'Fire' in a movie theater that is not on fire, that just causes trouble and hardship for others.
You have to weigh the right this person has to cause trouble against the right of others to peacefully function in the community who would be driven away from the trouble he causes. The folks who would be driven away by his behavior do have rights as well.
You should just silently ban him.
~m
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:01:25 -0500 Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, 2012-12-18 at 15:30 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community.
...snip...
Posting over and over "windows 8 power" is not a dialog or providing any actual involvement, it's just spam. I'd say the same thing if some Fedora user was posting "Fedora power" on all microsoft posts.
You should just silently ban him.
+1.
They are not providing anything meaningfull to the discussion. If it was even "I prefer windows 8 over fedora because..." that would be great, but it's not. It's just mindless spam, IMHO.
kevin
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:32:43AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:01:25 -0500 Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, 2012-12-18 at 15:30 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community.
...snip...
Posting over and over "windows 8 power" is not a dialog or providing any actual involvement, it's just spam. I'd say the same thing if some Fedora user was posting "Fedora power" on all microsoft posts.
You should just silently ban him.
+1.
They are not providing anything meaningfull to the discussion. If it was even "I prefer windows 8 over fedora because..." that would be great, but it's not. It's just mindless spam, IMHO.
+1 here too for the same reasons.
They are not providing anything meaningfull to the discussion. If it was even "I prefer windows 8 over fedora because..." that would be great, but it's not. It's just mindless spam, IMHO.
Nicely said ;)
You should just silently ban him.
+1 from me.
Hi Jiri, folks,
On Tue, 2012-12-18 at 15:30 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, I'd like to ask others for advice. As you may know, I'm maintaining the Fedora Project page at Google+. And I have a problem with a troll :) There is a guy who started posting a "WINDOWS 8 POWER!" message under every post we have on our page. It's pretty much spamming and it leads discussions on our page to unwanted directions because people of course feed the troll.
I'm considering to ban him, but I don't want to do anything that would harm our reputation of open and censorship-free community. Do you think it crosses the line and banning is an appropriate reaction or should I let him be and hope that he'll stop doing it (although he can do it for months because it's nothing time taking)?
Jiri
I keep a tab on the Fedora Communities group on FB. This is how I go about it:
I ignore trolls until their comments begin to spark useless conversations (that are generally never fedora related, as you point out). Then, I drop them a polite private message requesting them to refrain from trolling, and that failure to comply will *force* me to delete their comments and *eventually* a ban. At the same time, I drop a polite comment in the respective thread pointing out the trolling, with reasons XYZ, and request other users to not partake in it. If at any point, the thread begins to get out of hand with rude comments and such, I remind people to "be excellent to each other" and that failing to follow the guideline will again, *force* me to delete comments and ban people.
I make it very clear that I'd like to let the conversation run, but that non fedora related comments and rude behaviour will force my hand to maintain decorum in the group/community. I generally add that social media is free for everyone to use; people are more than welcome to create their own groups and hold discussions and that we'd be most grateful if they didn't pollute/deviate our groups with their discussions.
This generally resolves issues for me. The trolls cease. If they don't, they're the kind that are looking to create trouble, not just have a little fun. Users generally realize this and quit feeding them. The trolls get bored and die out without their followers.
When the above process doesn't work, you ban the user, as the last resort. :(
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