[Fedora-marketing-list] M-L proposal

[Francesco Ugolini]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've a modest proposal that consist in the merge of Fedora Ambassador
and Fedora Marketing mailing lists. The reson of this is that i've see
that many time the discussions are the same and it's seems to me as a
redundant thing.

I think that if we want to work better we have to work togheter, put our
power into something and be sure that is no lost time.

Yes, if we consider it we have to consider to open ambassadors list to
non ambassador people (as marketing is). I think it will be a new step
to improve the project giving all interested people to join the project
and simplify the infrastructure.

Thanks

Francesco Ugolini

- --
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FrancescoUgolini
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFFoppKg22WPmV194kRAsiUAJ93KiIAV8FKxD2NNB5d7TCwY+68/gCeLj2q
> 5sh8+BBTSDYKint7dWEahbI=
> =+ysQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Rahul Sundaram]

Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  I've a modest proposal that consist in the merge of Fedora Ambassador
>  and Fedora Marketing mailing lists. The reson of this is that i've see
>  that many time the discussions are the same and it's seems to me as a
>  redundant thing.
>  
>  I think that if we want to work better we have to work togheter, put our
>  power into something and be sure that is no lost time.
>  
>  Yes, if we consider it we have to consider to open ambassadors list to
>  non ambassador people (as marketing is). I think it will be a new step
>  to improve the project giving all interested people to join the project
>  and simplify the infrastructure. 
With the large number of infrastructure changes associated with Fedora 
7, we have recently started discussing the idea of reorganizing the 
mailing lists.  See 
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-January/msg001.... 
  So instead of opening up ambassadors list, I think it might be better 
to just merge ambassadors list with marketing list here and just discuss 
everything in this list instead.

The original idea of ambassadors were contact points around events all 
over the world but that has substantially changed and increased the 
scope for the better over time. We opened up archives for ambassadors 
list a while back after my prodding. I think we are ready for a merge 
back now.  Folks who want to be recognised as ambassadors can just 
follow the usual process. The rest of them marketing folks can continue 
discussing things here as usual. The advantage of this is that it gives 
us broader participation and visibility. Let me know what you guys think.

Rahul

[Francesco Ugolini]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Rahul Sundaram ha scritto:
>  Francesco Ugolini wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > I've a modest proposal that consist in the merge of Fedora Ambassador
> > and Fedora Marketing mailing lists. The reson of this is that i've see
> > that many time the discussions are the same and it's seems to me as a
> > redundant thing.
> >
> > I think that if we want to work better we have to work togheter, put our
> > power into something and be sure that is no lost time.
> >
> > Yes, if we consider it we have to consider to open ambassadors list to
> > non ambassador people (as marketing is). I think it will be a new step
> > to improve the project giving all interested people to join the project
> > and simplify the infrastructure.
>  
>  With the large number of infrastructure changes associated with Fedora
>  7, we have recently started discussing the idea of reorganizing the
>  mailing lists.  See
>  https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-January/msg001....
>   So instead of opening up ambassadors list, I think it might be better
>  to just merge ambassadors list with marketing list here and just discuss
>  everything in this list instead.
>  
>  The original idea of ambassadors were contact points around events all
>  over the world but that has substantially changed and increased the
>  scope for the better over time. We opened up archives for ambassadors
>  list a while back after my prodding. I think we are ready for a merge
>  back now.  Folks who want to be recognised as ambassadors can just
>  follow the usual process. The rest of them marketing folks can continue
>  discussing things here as usual. The advantage of this is that it gives
>  us broader participation and visibility. Let me know what you guys think.
>  
>  Rahul
>   
+1

- --
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FrancescoUgolini
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFFop6+g22WPmV194kRApsdAJ4niDWA9rtQDqPM8tNpG/7Dn8UJVwCgl+XT
> zpOULVbdwpGZe0jqKYQxAq4=
> =9m50
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Alex]

+1

On 1/8/07, Francesco Ugolini <francesco.ugolini(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>  Rahul Sundaram ha scritto:
>  > Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>  >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  >> Hash: SHA1
>  >>
>  >> I've a modest proposal that consist in the merge of Fedora Ambassador
>  >> and Fedora Marketing mailing lists. The reson of this is that i've see
>  >> that many time the discussions are the same and it's seems to me as a
>  >> redundant thing.
>  >>
>  >> I think that if we want to work better we have to work togheter, put our
>  >> power into something and be sure that is no lost time.
>  >>
>  >> Yes, if we consider it we have to consider to open ambassadors list to
>  >> non ambassador people (as marketing is). I think it will be a new step
>  >> to improve the project giving all interested people to join the project
>  >> and simplify the infrastructure.
>  >
>  > With the large number of infrastructure changes associated with Fedora
>  > 7, we have recently started discussing the idea of reorganizing the
>  > mailing lists.  See
>  > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-January/msg001....
>  >  So instead of opening up ambassadors list, I think it might be better
>  > to just merge ambassadors list with marketing list here and just discuss
>  > everything in this list instead.
>  >
>  > The original idea of ambassadors were contact points around events all
>  > over the world but that has substantially changed and increased the
>  > scope for the better over time. We opened up archives for ambassadors
>  > list a while back after my prodding. I think we are ready for a merge
>  > back now.  Folks who want to be recognised as ambassadors can just
>  > follow the usual process. The rest of them marketing folks can continue
>  > discussing things here as usual. The advantage of this is that it gives
>  > us broader participation and visibility. Let me know what you guys think.
>  >
>  > Rahul
>  >
>
>  +1
>
>  - --
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FrancescoUgolini
> >  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >  Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> >  Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> >  iD8DBQFFop6+g22WPmV194kRApsdAJ4niDWA9rtQDqPM8tNpG/7Dn8UJVwCgl+XT
> >  zpOULVbdwpGZe0jqKYQxAq4=
> >  =9m50
> >  -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
>  --
>  Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>  

-- 
Alex Maier
Art and Photography

http://amaier.net

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 1/8/07, Alex Maier <lxmaier(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  +1 
I think It's a very bad idea to merge contributors and users.
The other mailing lists are being merged for a specific reason, core
and extras are being merged.
Here, there is a different use of these 2 mailing lists(ambassadors,marketing).

The ambassadors list is a mailing list intended for committed fedora
contributors willing to help in marketing fedora and its projects.
Whereas marketing list is the playground where we should encourage
fedora users to propose/publish their comments.

Having a separate mailing list for ambassadors makes it a special
project. People want to join that special group and in the end this
creates man power for various linux events. Ambassadors list is where
serious discussions (concerning events) are taken place. If anyone
pokes in, it will be a real chaos.

Greg's dream of having Ambassadors spreading the fedora word might
lose its quality.


Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

[Nicolas Mailhot]

If lists are reorganised please make sure they all use the same mailman
header patters

I have this on my procmailrc

:0
* ^Return-Path:
<fedora(-|-(ambassadors|art|desktop|devel|extras|fr|marketing|trans|test|selinux)-)list-bounces(a)redhat.com&gt;
*
^List-Id:.*<fedora(-|-(ambassadors|art|desktop|devel|extras|fr|marketing|trans|test|selinux)-)list.redhat.com>
* ^X-loop:
fedora(-|-(ambassadors|art|desktop|devel|extras|fr|marketing|trans|test|selinux)-)list(a)redhat.com
* ^X-BeenThere:
fedora(-|-(ambassadors|art|desktop|devel|extras|fr|marketing|trans|test|selinux)-)list(a)redhat.com
$FEDORA

Which unfortunately does not work for all Fedora lists.

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[Alex]

On 1/8/07, Chitlesh GOORAH <chitlesh(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  On 1/8/07, Alex Maier <lxmaier(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > +1
>
>  I think It's a very bad idea to merge contributors and users.
>  The other mailing lists are being merged for a specific reason, core
>  and extras are being merged.
>  Here, there is a different use of these 2 mailing lists(ambassadors,marketing). 
A bit of history here for all who's got a second to read this.

The Marketing list was created originally with the same idea in
mind--to promote (market) Fedora. As the list was just a list, and did
not have a governing body or a mission statement, it eventually became
what it is now--a discussion forum, not a group that was able to
accomplish goals. And that is what it still is.

When the time came, and deeds were asked, the Marketing list was not
able to deliver, and the Ambassadors group was created.

Since then, the Ambassadors went on to accomplish a lot of stuff, and
the Marketing list is still a list.

The question arises, what exactly is the point of the list, if most
Ambassadors are its members and the only people who are empowered to
take any action on whatever is discussed on the Marketing list?

>  The ambassadors list is a mailing list intended for committed fedora
>  contributors willing to help in marketing fedora and its projects.
>  Whereas marketing list is the playground where we should encourage
>  fedora users to propose/publish their comments. 
Please note that it is almost exactly the same group of people
discussing on both lists. The Ambassadors group is a very open one,
and hurdles to joining are extremely low--I think all interested
parties (those who wish to contribute to Fedora by brainstorming
"marketing" ideas) could be quite easily integrated into the
Ambassadors group.

>  Having a separate mailing list for ambassadors makes it a special
>  project. People want to join that special group and in the end this
>  creates man power for various linux events. Ambassadors list is where
>  serious discussions (concerning events) are taken place. If anyone
>  pokes in, it will be a real chaos. 
No users beyond this point please?

I strongly believe in openness and meritocracy. So far, we have 193
members in the Ambassadors group--pretty much enough people to create
all the chaos you can take. And yet, we're pretty good at organizing
ourselves and policing the few rules we have.

Inviting an additional hundred or two into the group will not make the
project weaker. The Ambassadors are not a "special" force who preach
onto the footfolk. We ARE the footfolk, we ARE the users, and if we
are not ready to talk with the users and on their level, we have no
reason and right to talk to them at all.

>  Greg's dream of having Ambassadors spreading the fedora word
> might
>  lose its quality. 
Greg had a dream... Oh well, let Greg correct me if I am wrong.

/me bows before Greg

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 1/8/07, Alex Maier wrote:
>  Inviting an additional hundred or two into the group will not make
> the
>  project weaker. The Ambassadors are not a "special" force who preach
>  onto the footfolk. We ARE the footfolk, we ARE the users, and if we
>  are not ready to talk with the users and on their level, we have no
>  reason and right to talk to them at all. 
Not weaker, but it might affect quality. Many other projects envy us
for that quality.
Personally, I think Fedora Marketing hasn't got the love it should
have got. The topic of "How Fedora 7 will be called" should happen in
the Fedora Marketing List, for example.

>  Greg had a dream... Oh well, let Greg correct me if I am wrong.
>
>  /me bows before Greg 
 HAD a dream ? He has no longer that dream?

Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Closed + Open dual list on the same topics is a very bad idea.
People on the open list always end up suspecting dark designs are
discussed on the closed list (see also: xfree86 debacle)

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[Thomas Chung]

On 1/8/07, Alex Maier <lxmaier(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> ...
>  I strongly believe in openness and meritocracy. So far, we have 193
>  members in the Ambassadors group--pretty much enough people to create
>  all the chaos you can take. And yet, we're pretty good at organizing
>  ourselves and policing the few rules we have. 
A minor correction.
We have 155 *verified* Fedora Ambassadors. :)
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
Regards,
-- 
Thomas Chung
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung

[simon]

Am Montag, 8. Januar 2007 22:05 schrieb Chitlesh GOORAH:
>  I think It's a very bad idea to merge contributors and users.
>  The other mailing lists are being merged for a specific reason, core
>  and extras are being merged.
>  .
>  .
>  Greg's dream of having Ambassadors spreading the fedora word might
>  lose its quality. 
I Couldn't better say that.

-- 

Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Losito Nicola]

Il giorno lun, 08/01/2007 alle 22.05 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH ha scritto:

>  I think It's a very bad idea to merge contributors and users.
[cut]
>  The ambassadors list is a mailing list intended for committed fedora
>  contributors willing to help in marketing fedora and its projects.
>  Whereas marketing list is the playground where we should encourage
>  fedora users to propose/publish their comments. 

I'm with Chitlesh on this topic, all the way.
+1 for _not_ merging

(and keep mails in the list in topic)

-- 
Nicola Losito               kOoLiNuS

blog:  http://koolinus.wordpress.com
messaging AIM/G-Talk/Yahoo: koolinus

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 01:07 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>  > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  > Hash: SHA1
>  > 
>  > I've a modest proposal that consist in the merge of Fedora Ambassador
>  > and Fedora Marketing mailing lists. The reson of this is that i've see
>  > that many time the discussions are the same and it's seems to me as a
>  > redundant thing.
>  > 
>  > I think that if we want to work better we have to work togheter, put our
>  > power into something and be sure that is no lost time.
>  > 
>  > Yes, if we consider it we have to consider to open ambassadors list to
>  > non ambassador people (as marketing is). I think it will be a new step
>  > to improve the project giving all interested people to join the project
>  > and simplify the infrastructure.
>  
>  With the large number of infrastructure changes associated with Fedora 
>  7, we have recently started discussing the idea of reorganizing the 
>  mailing lists.  See 
>  https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-January/msg001.... 
>    So instead of opening up ambassadors list, I think it might be better 
>  to just merge ambassadors list with marketing list here and just discuss 
>  everything in this list instead.
>  
>  The original idea of ambassadors were contact points around events all 
>  over the world but that has substantially changed and increased the 
>  scope for the better over time. We opened up archives for ambassadors 
>  list a while back after my prodding. I think we are ready for a merge 
>  back now.  Folks who want to be recognised as ambassadors can just 
>  follow the usual process. The rest of them marketing folks can continue 
>  discussing things here as usual. The advantage of this is that it gives 
>  us broader participation and visibility. Let me know what you guys think.
>  
>  Rahul
>   
+1