[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Name for future Fedora distribition?

[Alex]

Hey, what happened to the puppies?

On 11/30/06, Francesco Ugolini  wrote:
> Hernan Pachas ha scritto:
> > +1
> >
> > ---Hernan
> >
> > On 11/30/06, Dimitris Glezos  wrote:
> > > O/H Thomas Canniot έγραψε:
> > > > Le jeudi 30 novembre 2006 à 14:10 +0100, Gerold Kassube a écrit :
> > > > > why not only
> > > > >
> > > > > *FEDORA*
> > > > >
> > > > > this says all :-)
> > >
> > > +1.
> > >
> > > -d
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dimitris Glezos
> > > Jabber ID: [e-mail], GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
> > > http://dimitris.glezos.com/
> > >
> > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use
> > > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
> >
> > --
> > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
> +1
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

[Steve Barnhart]

I agree, How about just keeping it Fedora and/or Fedora Linux,
everyone knows that and no point in confusing people again. No one
really cared about the Core part anyway, IMO it was a stupid name.

On 11/30/06, Alex Maier  wrote:
> Hey, what happened to the puppies?
>
> On 11/30/06, Francesco Ugolini  wrote:
> > Hernan Pachas ha scritto:
> > > +1
> > >
> > > ---Hernan
> > >
> > > On 11/30/06, Dimitris Glezos  wrote:
> > > > O/H Thomas Canniot έγραψε:
> > > > > Le jeudi 30 novembre 2006 à 14:10 +0100, Gerold Kassube a écrit :
> > > > > > why not only
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *FEDORA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this says all :-)
> > > >
> > > > +1.
> > > >
> > > > -d
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dimitris Glezos
> > > > Jabber ID: [e-mail], GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
> > > > http://dimitris.glezos.com/
> > > >
> > > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use
> > > > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
> > >
> > > --
> > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
> >
> > +1
> >
> > --
> > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
> --
> Alex Maier
> Art and Photography
>
> [homepage] http://amaier.net
> [photos and art books] http://lulu.com/amaier
> [posters] http://www.art.com/memberartist/amaier
>
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

[Chris Negus]

On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 14:43 -0500, Steve Barnhart wrote:
> I agree, How about just keeping it Fedora and/or Fedora Linux,
> everyone knows that and no point in confusing people again. No one
> really cared about the Core part anyway, IMO it was a stupid name.

I agree with Fedora Linux. Someone looking for a Linux system that isn't
already in the choir will find it more easily in searches. Those of us
who were writing about Red Hat Linux were thrown into naming hell when
Red Hat Linux shifted to Fedora Core. Fedora Linux would have softened
the blow.

-- Chris Negus

[Jesse Keating]

On Thursday 30 November 2006 17:33, Chris Negus wrote:
> I agree with Fedora Linux. Someone looking for a Linux system that isn't
> already in the choir will find it more easily in searches. Those of us
> who were writing about Red Hat Linux were thrown into naming hell when
> Red Hat Linux shifted to Fedora Core. Fedora Linux would have softened
> the blow.

Personally I'd like to name the distribution releases with "Linux", so you get 
Fedora Desktop Linux 7 (Naugahyde), Fedora Server Linux 7 (Naugahyde), etc...

A book that covers all of the Fedora Linux releases could use the 
generic "Fedora Linux" term.

We still have to name the pile of packages collection.

[Jef Spaleta]

Oh a name game! I like name games.

Fedora Akixiusiaksraqsi
translated from the Iñupiat Eskimo Dictionary
Fedora "your future rewards (potentially received rewards)"

Fedora Akiqsruun
translated as
Fedora Promise
or
Fedora Covenant

Covenant:
An agreement between two parties. The agreement, according to Ancient
Near East custom, consists of five parts: 1) Identification of
parties, 2) Historical prologue where the deeds establishing the
worthiness of the dominant party is established, 3) Conditions of the
agreement, 4) Rewards and punishments in regard to keeping the
conditions, and 5) Disposition of the documents where each party
receives a copy of the agreement

And considering how much emphasis we place on the importance of
licensing as the defining quality of what can be part of the Fedora
software universe, naming the space..convenant..isn't so out-of-line
with that emphasis.

What is Fedora if it isn't a promise. What is Fedora if it isn't an
expression of a unspoken covenant with the community, to push FOSS
forward into the future, a future with rewards for everyone who is
involved in the process.

-jef"Fedora, fedora-bo-dora...."spaleta

[Jef Spaleta]

On 11/30/06, Jeff Spaleta  wrote:
> Fedora Promise

And of course... if  Fedora Promise is used as a name, we can have
loads of fun complaining about when package maintainers make a mistake
and push a package build which..breaks the Promise. Aren't names with
3 or 4 contextual meanings fun.

-jef"F.U.B.A.R.  - Fedora Users Bettering Accessibility Research"spaleta

[Chris Negus]

On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 17:37 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote:
> Personally I'd like to name the distribution releases with "Linux", so you get 
> Fedora Desktop Linux 7 (Naugahyde), Fedora Server Linux 7 (Naugahyde), etc...
>
> A book that covers all of the Fedora Linux releases could use the 
> generic "Fedora Linux" term.
>
> We still have to name the pile of packages collection.

Great! I was just hoping for Linux in the official name. Separate
distribution releases is good too.

-- Chris Negus

[Tejas Dinkar]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Chris Negus sent out 0.6K bytes to say:
> Great! I was just hoping for Linux in the official name. Separate
> distribution releases is good too.

Having `Linux` in the Name is a baaaaaaaaaad idea.

It gets the GNU guys on our *** to name it GNU/Linux

Just not happening guys :p

[Leo]

On Friday,  1 Dec 2006, Tejas Dinkar wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Chris Negus sent out 0.6K bytes to say:
> > Great! I was just hoping for Linux in the official name. Separate
> > distribution releases is good too.
>
> Having `Linux` in the Name is a baaaaaaaaaad idea.
>
> It gets the GNU guys on our *** to name it GNU/Linux
>
> Just not happening guys :p

Not just that. If we are legitimate to use GNU/Linux we should use
it to distinguish from some distributions such as Ubuntu, SuSE
etc. that can't even have GNU in their names.

[Steve Barnhart]

On 12/1/06, Leo  wrote:
> On Friday,  1 Dec 2006, Tejas Dinkar wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Chris Negus sent out 0.6K bytes to say:
> > > Great! I was just hoping for Linux in the official name. Separate
> > > distribution releases is good too.
> >
> > Having `Linux` in the Name is a baaaaaaaaaad idea.
> >
> > It gets the GNU guys on our *** to name it GNU/Linux
> >
> > Just not happening guys :p
>
> Not just that. If we are legitimate to use GNU/Linux we should use
> it to distinguish from some distributions such as Ubuntu, SuSE
> etc. that can't even have GNU in their names.

Umm thats ok. GNU/Linux is a horrible combination, longer to say, and
half the word doesn't call it that.
> --
> Leo
>
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le Ven 1 décembre 2006 01:19, Chris Negus a écrit :
> On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 17:37 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > Personally I'd like to name the distribution releases with "Linux", so
> > you get
> > Fedora Desktop Linux 7 (Naugahyde), Fedora Server Linux 7 (Naugahyde),
> > etc...
> >
> > A book that covers all of the Fedora Linux releases could use the
> > generic "Fedora Linux" term.
> >
> > We still have to name the pile of packages collection.
>
> Great! I was just hoping for Linux in the official name. Separate
> distribution releases is good too.

Fedora GNOME collection, summer 2006
Fedora Multimedia collection, winter 2007

etc

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Chris Negus wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 14:43 -0500, Steve Barnhart wrote:
> > I agree, How about just keeping it Fedora and/or Fedora Linux,
> > everyone knows that and no point in confusing people again. No one
> > really cared about the Core part anyway, IMO it was a stupid name.
>
> I agree with Fedora Linux. Someone looking for a Linux system that isn't
> already in the choir will find it more easily in searches. Those of us
> who were writing about Red Hat Linux were thrown into naming hell when
> Red Hat Linux shifted to Fedora Core. Fedora Linux would have softened
> the blow.

But, see, that's not even what we're talking about.

We're not talking about "what will we rename Fedora Core to?"  We're 
looking at FUNDAMENTAL changes of the ACTUAL DELIVERABLES of the Fedora 
Project.

=== AS OF RIGHT NOW, HERE'S WHAT FEDORA LOOKS LIKE: ===

Fedora Core is:
   (a set of packages maintained by RH)
     AND
   (a Linux distribution).

Fedora Extras is:
   (a set of packages maintained by The Fedora Community).

=== IN THE FUTURE, HERE'S WHAT FEDORA WILL LOOK LIKE: ===

Fedora _X_ is:
   (the maximal set of packages maintained by The Fedora Community)
     AND
   (too big to distribute on a single CD or DVD)
     AND
   (therefore NOT a Linux distro).

Fedora _Y_ is:
   (a Linux distro blessed by RH that is a strict subset of Fedora _X_)
     AND
   (a Linux distro aimed at, oh, servers).

Fedora _Z_ is:
   (a Linux distro blessed by RH that is a strict subset of Fedora _X_)
     AND
   (a Linux distro aimed at, oh, GNOME-based desktops).

===

So following Chris's logic, maybe we'd fill in values as such:
   X = Fedora 7 Linux
   Y = Fedora 7 Linux Server
   Z = Fedora 7 Linux Desktop

And maybe I buy that for Y and Z... but not for X.  Because people will 
say "I want Fedora Linux", and that's not going to be a sufficient answer, 
because "Fedora Linux" will just be too damned big.

Anyway.  Those are the issues as I see them.  Discuss.  :)

--g

-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------

[Steve Barnhart]

On 11/30/06, Greg Dekoenigsberg  wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Chris Negus wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 14:43 -0500, Steve Barnhart wrote:
> > > I agree, How about just keeping it Fedora and/or Fedora Linux,
> > > everyone knows that and no point in confusing people again. No one
> > > really cared about the Core part anyway, IMO it was a stupid name.
> >
> > I agree with Fedora Linux. Someone looking for a Linux system that isn't
> > already in the choir will find it more easily in searches. Those of us
> > who were writing about Red Hat Linux were thrown into naming hell when
> > Red Hat Linux shifted to Fedora Core. Fedora Linux would have softened
> > the blow.
>
> But, see, that's not even what we're talking about.
> So following Chris's logic, maybe we'd fill in values as such:
>    X = Fedora 7 Linux
>    Y = Fedora 7 Linux Server
>    Z = Fedora 7 Linux Desktop
>
> And maybe I buy that for Y and Z... but not for X.  Because people will
> say "I want Fedora Linux", and that's not going to be a sufficient answer,
> because "Fedora Linux" will just be too damned big.

Every other distribution does this so I really don't see the problem.
Keep the regular name Fedora or Fedora Linux for the entire
distribution and the regular variant will be predefined packages from
the Fedora repository and a special server edition if warranted. I
don't see how Fedora is so different from Debian (which does it this
way I believe), Opensuse, and Ubuntu, all community distributions.
> Anyway.  Those are the issues as I see them.  Discuss.  :)

[Tejas Dinkar]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Greg Dekoenigsberg sent out 2.3K bytes to say:
> And maybe I buy that for Y and Z... but not for X.  Because people will 
> say "I want Fedora Linux", and that's not going to be a sufficient answer, 
> because "Fedora Linux" will just be too damned big.

Why don't we drop the numbers all together?

We could name them:

Fedora Heibelberg
Fedora Champagne
Fedora Tettnang
Fedora Zod

Individual releases could be 
Fedora Zod-Server
Fedora gnome-Zod
Fedora KZod
Fedora XFZod
Fedora eZod

etc, etc...

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

Thats not a bad idea Tejas :)

Regards,

Marc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tejas Dinkar" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Name for future 
Fedoradistribition?
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Greg Dekoenigsberg sent out 2.3K bytes to say:
> > And maybe I buy that for Y and Z... but not for X.  Because people will
> > say "I want Fedora Linux", and that's not going to be a sufficient 
> > answer,
> > because "Fedora Linux" will just be too damned big.
>
> Why don't we drop the numbers all together?
>
> We could name them:
>
> Fedora Heibelberg
> Fedora Champagne
> Fedora Tettnang
> Fedora Zod
>
> Individual releases could be
> Fedora Zod-Server
> Fedora gnome-Zod
> Fedora KZod
> Fedora XFZod
> Fedora eZod
>
> etc, etc...
>
> -- 
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

[Rahul Sundaram]

Tejas Dinkar wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Greg Dekoenigsberg sent out 2.3K bytes to say:
> > And maybe I buy that for Y and Z... but not for X.  Because people will 
> > say "I want Fedora Linux", and that's not going to be a sufficient answer, 
> > because "Fedora Linux" will just be too damned big.
>
> Why don't we drop the numbers all together?
>
> We could name them:
>
> Fedora Heibelberg
> Fedora Champagne
> Fedora Tettnang
> Fedora Zod
>
> Individual releases could be 
> Fedora Zod-Server
> Fedora gnome-Zod
> Fedora KZod
> Fedora XFZod
> Fedora eZod
>
> etc, etc...

We can't realistically do this. After a few releases, it would be very 
difficult to remember the order of releases.

Rahul

[Tejas Dinkar]

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006, Rahul Sundaram sent out 0.8K bytes to say:
> We can't realistically do this. After a few releases, it would be very 
> difficult to remember the order of releases.

How does debian/ubuntu name stuff?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Tejas Dinkar wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006, Rahul Sundaram sent out 0.8K bytes to say:
> > We can't realistically do this. After a few releases, it would be very 
> > difficult to remember the order of releases.
>
> How does debian/ubuntu name stuff?

Ubuntu has release versions based on schedules and codenames. Debian 
release timings are very long compared to Fedora's and they have version 
numbers too.

Rahul

[Diego Búrigo Zacarão]

I'm disagreement to names [debian/ubuntu]-likes. :P
I think that we must have our own way to nominate the Fedora Releases.
Something different... ;)

Maybe:
* Fedora Sever Linux 7
* Fedora GDesktop Linux 7
* Fedora KDesktop Linux 7
* Fedora XFDesktop Linux 7

or something like that... but not the same way to the Debian/Ubuntu.
A number for a Release I think better to identify it.
;)

Regards

On 12/1/06, Tejas Dinkar  wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006, Rahul Sundaram sent out 0.8K bytes to say:
> > We can't realistically do this. After a few releases, it would be very
> > difficult to remember the order of releases.
>
> How does debian/ubuntu name stuff?
>
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

[Steve Barnhart]

On 12/1/06, Diego Búrigo Zacarão  wrote:
> I'm disagreement to names [debian/ubuntu]-likes. :P
> I think that we must have our own way to nominate the Fedora Releases.
> Something different... ;)
>
> Maybe:
> Fedora Sever Linux 7
> Fedora GDesktop Linux 7
> Fedora KDesktop Linux 7
> Fedora XFDesktop Linux 7

Unfortunately, I am in disagreement to your choice of names. Not only
is that confusing to many users, but how exact would you pronounce
that? If its actually pronouncing the letter and then desktop that
sounds dumb. There's no need to complicate things. Keep the entire
distribution Fedora and perhaps just keep counting up like we've been
doing or maybe what Gentoo does with the years, that's a good idea imo
also. So we could have either Fedora 7, Fedora Linux 7, or something
like Fedora 2007 and then .1 .2 etc.

Please don't complicate things or make even more stupid names that
sometimes parts of the OSS community are known for. KISS (keep it
simple stupid), and professional please.
> or something like that... but not the same way to the Debian/Ubuntu.
> A number for a Release I think better to identify it.
> ;)
>
> Regards
>
> On 12/1/06, Tejas Dinkar  wrote:
> > On Fri, 01 Dec 2006, Rahul Sundaram sent out 0.8K bytes to say:
> > > We can't realistically do this. After a few releases, it would be very
> > > difficult to remember the order of releases.
> >
> > How does debian/ubuntu name stuff?
> >
> > --
> > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
>
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
> >
>
> --
> Diego Búrigo Zacarão
> Linux User #402589
> USE SOFTWARE LIVRE
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

[Thomas Canniot]

Le vendredi 01 décembre 2006 à 14:36 -0500, Steve Barnhart a écrit :
> On 12/1/06, Diego Búrigo Zacarão  wrote:
> > I'm disagreement to names [debian/ubuntu]-likes. :P
> > I think that we must have our own way to nominate the Fedora Releases.
> > Something different... ;)
> >
> > Maybe:
> > Fedora Sever Linux 7
> > Fedora GDesktop Linux 7
> > Fedora KDesktop Linux 7
> > Fedora XFDesktop Linux 7
>
> Unfortunately, I am in disagreement to your choice of names. Not only
> is that confusing to many users, but how exact would you pronounce
> that? If its actually pronouncing the letter and then desktop that
> sounds dumb. There's no need to complicate things. Keep the entire
> distribution Fedora and perhaps just keep counting up like we've been
> doing or maybe what Gentoo does with the years, that's a good idea imo
> also. So we could have either Fedora 7, Fedora Linux 7, or something
> like Fedora 2007 and then .1 .2 etc.

We have a chance here : Fedora Core 7 will be out in 2007. What about
sticking to years now ? Fedora 8 will come out in 2008 ?
And name the releases according to it : Fedora Linux 7.1 for the spring
release and Fedora 7.2 for the autumn release.

What we can see in the fedora development is that it seems to have a
major release every year or so, followed by a more polished one.

FC2 was a polish release of FC1
FC4 ... FC3
FC6 ... FC5

Then we can expect FC7.1 being a major release, and FC7.2 being a polish
release.