Hey Community,
Sorry I did not get back sooner. My friend at LSI called my cell phone -- I was waiting for an email. Did not check my messages until today.
The gist of what she said is that we can indeed do a hard cover full color book, but we would have to do so using off-set printing.
And she could not give a cost estimate, because the cost would depend on how much color and the degree of difficulty for the printer in setting up the book.
Off-set would probably create a much better looking book, as far as image quality goes. It is the industry standard for printing high quality books.
But using off-set, each color page would require that four separate plates would have to be made to produce a color image. Blue, red, yellow, and black is the way they used to describe it, but now it is CMYK (short for cyan, magenta, yellow, and key (black) We could, however, use a mixture of b&w and color pages. Then we would pay less for the b&w pages that don't have color on them.
Still, since we are not driven to make a huge profit off of each book, we could adjust the book price to allow for the additional printing costs.
-- w Douglas Berry -- slasherzee@fedoraproject.org
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:47:20PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
Hey Community,
Sorry I did not get back sooner. My friend at LSI called my cell phone -- I was waiting for an email. Did not check my messages until today.
The gist of what she said is that we can indeed do a hard cover full color book, but we would have to do so using off-set printing.
And she could not give a cost estimate, because the cost would depend on how much color and the degree of difficulty for the printer in setting up the book.
Off-set would probably create a much better looking book, as far as image quality goes. It is the industry standard for printing high quality books.
But using off-set, each color page would require that four separate plates would have to be made to produce a color image. Blue, red, yellow, and black is the way they used to describe it, but now it is CMYK (short for cyan, magenta, yellow, and key (black) We could, however, use a mixture of b&w and color pages. Then we would pay less for the b&w pages that don't have color on them.
Still, since we are not driven to make a huge profit off of each book, we could adjust the book price to allow for the additional printing costs.
With the current state of the economy and everything I want to make these books as affordable as possible to the consumers.
I think paperback with color pages is the way to go. But we can vote or whatever on that later.
More importantly, we need to decide the requirements for photos in the book. Nicu, can you help us out on that?
Also I'm getting prepared on how tos on uploading photos to the wiki, release forms, etc. Once that's ready to roll, we'll have a process worked out for contributing your photos and stories to the book.
I would also go paperback it seems to be conciderally more affordable. However it seems to have a bad habbit of falling appart.
2009/1/16 Ian Weller ianweller@gmail.com
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:47:20PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
Hey Community,
Sorry I did not get back sooner. My friend at LSI called my cell phone -- I was waiting for an email. Did not check my messages until today.
The gist of what she said is that we can indeed do a hard cover full color book, but we would have to do so using off-set printing.
And she could not give a cost estimate, because the cost would depend on how much color and the degree of difficulty for the printer in setting up the book.
Off-set would probably create a much better looking book, as far as image quality goes. It is the industry standard for printing high quality books.
But using off-set, each color page would require that four separate plates would have to be made to produce a color image. Blue, red, yellow, and black is the way they used to describe it, but now it is CMYK (short for cyan, magenta, yellow, and key (black) We could, however, use a mixture of b&w and color pages. Then we would pay less for the b&w pages that don't have color on them.
Still, since we are not driven to make a huge profit off of each book, we could adjust the book price to allow for the additional printing costs.
With the current state of the economy and everything I want to make these books as affordable as possible to the consumers.
I think paperback with color pages is the way to go. But we can vote or whatever on that later.
More importantly, we need to decide the requirements for photos in the book. Nicu, can you help us out on that?
Also I'm getting prepared on how tos on uploading photos to the wiki, release forms, etc. Once that's ready to roll, we'll have a process worked out for contributing your photos and stories to the book.
-- Ian Weller ianweller@gmail.com http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams
-- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Speaking of paper...is there a way that we could make sure that the book was printed on as much recycled paper as possible?
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Jason aka, Axelilly Catch me on gchat or Jabber =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
2009/1/17 Keiran Smith affix@fedoraproject.org
I would also go paperback it seems to be conciderally more affordable. However it seems to have a bad habbit of falling appart.
2009/1/16 Ian Weller ianweller@gmail.com
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:47:20PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
Hey Community,
Sorry I did not get back sooner. My friend at LSI called my cell phone -- I was waiting for an email. Did not check my messages until today.
The gist of what she said is that we can indeed do a hard cover full color book, but we would have to do so using off-set printing.
And she could not give a cost estimate, because the cost would depend on how much color and the degree of difficulty for the printer in setting up the book.
Off-set would probably create a much better looking book, as far as image quality goes. It is the industry standard for printing high quality books.
But using off-set, each color page would require that four separate plates would have to be made to produce a color image. Blue, red, yellow, and black is the way they used to describe it, but now it is CMYK (short for cyan, magenta, yellow, and key (black) We could, however, use a mixture of b&w and color pages. Then we would pay less for the b&w pages that don't have color on them.
Still, since we are not driven to make a huge profit off of each book, we could adjust the book price to allow for the additional printing costs.
With the current state of the economy and everything I want to make these books as affordable as possible to the consumers.
I think paperback with color pages is the way to go. But we can vote or whatever on that later.
More importantly, we need to decide the requirements for photos in the book. Nicu, can you help us out on that?
Also I'm getting prepared on how tos on uploading photos to the wiki, release forms, etc. Once that's ready to roll, we'll have a process worked out for contributing your photos and stories to the book.
-- Ian Weller ianweller@gmail.com http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams
-- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
-- Keiran Smith
- Fedora Ambassador / BugZapper - affix@fedoraproject.org
- Free Software Foundation Associate - keiran.smith@member.fsf.org
-- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Ian Weller wrote:
More importantly, we need to decide the requirements for photos in the book. Nicu, can you help us out on that?
The most important requirement from a technical point of view is to have the images big enough, so depending on the paper size we may want to resuest something like at least 4 or 5 Megapixels (multiply the page size in inches with 300 DPI and we get the minimum resolution needed in pixels).
We can also talk about file formats and require either RAW or JPEG with a high quality, we have to accept JPEG as not all cameras are capable of producing RAW, but a JPEG saved with a quality factor of 85 (with visible JPEG artefacts) is unacceptable, so we may go with something like at least 98.
Not sure about post-processing, like some noise reduction, sharpening or color adjustments: we'll do this ourselves for the selected images or require the submitter to to it. I feel more inclined for doing it ourselves, as it will allow contributions from more people.
I don't think we can list requirements from an artistic point of view (quality, composition), as those are hard to define. This is where we will have to make the selection from the submitted pool.
And you already know about the legal requirements.
Also I'm getting prepared on how tos on uploading photos to the wiki, release forms, etc. Once that's ready to roll, we'll have a process worked out for contributing your photos and stories to the book.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:19:01AM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
The most important requirement from a technical point of view is to have the images big enough, so depending on the paper size we may want to resuest something like at least 4 or 5 Megapixels (multiply the page size in inches with 300 DPI and we get the minimum resolution needed in pixels).
I think to give us more freedom we'll want to ask for photos that could theoretically fill the entire page, but we might put more than one photo on a page (in some format... hmm) to break some things up and put room for text.
We can also talk about file formats and require either RAW or JPEG with a high quality, we have to accept JPEG as not all cameras are capable of producing RAW, but a JPEG saved with a quality factor of 85 (with visible JPEG artefacts) is unacceptable, so we may go with something like at least 98.
Can we just ask people to place the quality settings on their camera to the highest possible?
Not sure about post-processing, like some noise reduction, sharpening or color adjustments: we'll do this ourselves for the selected images or require the submitter to to it. I feel more inclined for doing it ourselves, as it will allow contributions from more people.
I don't think we can list requirements from an artistic point of view (quality, composition), as those are hard to define. This is where we will have to make the selection from the submitted pool.
Right. How about we ask people to submit multiple shots?
I'm thinking I'm going to need to create a workflow of some sort for all of this...
Ian Weller wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:19:01AM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
The most important requirement from a technical point of view is to have the images big enough, so depending on the paper size we may want to resuest something like at least 4 or 5 Megapixels (multiply the page size in inches with 300 DPI and we get the minimum resolution needed in pixels).
I think to give us more freedom we'll want to ask for photos that could theoretically fill the entire page, but we might put more than one photo on a page (in some format... hmm) to break some things up and put room for text.
Probably if a camera can't take photos at at least 4 MB, probably it can't take worthy photos anyway (i.e. the camera on my phone, or a webcam). 4 MP is 2272 x 1704, si this is probably a safe minimum.
We can also talk about file formats and require either RAW or JPEG with a high quality, we have to accept JPEG as not all cameras are capable of producing RAW, but a JPEG saved with a quality factor of 85 (with visible JPEG artefacts) is unacceptable, so we may go with something like at least 98.
Can we just ask people to place the quality settings on their camera to the highest possible?
I was thinking here more about post processing and saving from a graphic editor.
Right. How about we ask people to submit multiple shots?
IMO, we should ask people so submit as many shots as they can/want/have.
I'm thinking I'm going to need to create a workflow of some sort for all of this...
With things to check: license, release forms, size, quality.
We can ask in a first stage only smaller previews for selection and only for the selected images follow with release forms and big files.
2009/1/19 Ian Weller ianweller@gmail.com:
Can we just ask people to place the quality settings on their camera to the highest possible?
Do you really want me to upload raw format from my d200?
-jef"still trying to find a way to brand some sleddogs with fedora logos."spaleta
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:50:15AM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Do you really want me to upload raw format from my d200?
If Nicu thinks that's a sane size given that we're planning to upload them to the wiki, then yes.
Ian Weller wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:50:15AM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Do you really want me to upload raw format from my d200?
If Nicu thinks that's a sane size given that we're planning to upload them to the wiki, then yes.
My RAWs are about 15MB, I guess Jeff's are around 12MB (for a 10MP camera), I believe the main problem is not the storage, the problem is the extra steps needed to easily work with files: you can't see RAW files inside your browser and the wiki can't create thumbnails for them.
This is why is probably better to upload to the wiki a JPEG preview and only if the photo is selected for the book provide the RAW original (if available).
Nicu Buculei wrote:
This is why is probably better to upload to the wiki a JPEG preview and only if the photo is selected for the book provide the RAW original (if available).
I sketched this flowchart about how I see the process for a contributing photographer.
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 11:37:00AM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
This is why is probably better to upload to the wiki a JPEG preview and only if the photo is selected for the book provide the RAW original (if available).
I sketched this flowchart about how I see the process for a contributing photographer.
This works. I'll figure out how to organize photos on the wiki appropriately.
How do we upload RAWs to the wiki though? I'm not sure if we can or can't as of yet. I'd need a list of possible file extensions before that can be enabled.
Ian Weller wrote:
How do we upload RAWs to the wiki though? I'm not sure if we can or can't as of yet. I'd need a list of possible file extensions before that can be enabled.
Just like any other type of files our wiki don't know how to deal with, for example SVG, thus the usefulness of a JPEG preview.
However, I don't expect a lot of submissions in RAW, most of use use JPEG. RAW is handy if it is available, but is not a must.
Hy there,
I actually get a flickr stream from a friend of me and I thought it maybe give some people lets say a little idea how it can feel to have such photos for a picture book.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vowe/tags/faceslotusphere/
I find these pictures VERY good and can also imagine how they can look in a book with some text or so around them. Maybe after FOSDEM some guys could also take such great /facesoffedora/ sets... Sadly, I can not be there, but I hope to find such fotos soon on flickr or elswhere on our wiki...
best regards Henrik Heigl - wonderer@fedoraproject.org
wonderer wrote:
I actually get a flickr stream from a friend of me and I thought it maybe give some people lets say a little idea how it can feel to have such photos for a picture book.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vowe/tags/faceslotusphere/
I find these pictures VERY good and can also imagine how they can look in a book with some text or so around them. Maybe after FOSDEM some guys could also take such great /facesoffedora/ sets... Sadly, I can not be there, but I hope to find such fotos soon on flickr or elswhere on our wiki...
Those are indeed beautiful portraits, but I think we want to send a different message, using not only people faces but also saying "fedora", "freedom", "friends", etc., like those: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3187020674/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3187015470/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3187014986/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3186935960/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3186093895/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3184700237/
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:56 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Those are indeed beautiful portraits, but I think we want to send a different message, using not only people faces but also saying "fedora", "freedom", "friends", etc., like those:
I think at the end of the day, you'll find that you'll want a mix of portrait, candid and posed shots across a variety of moods from playful to serious. A serious portrait or two to bring home an important point about our dedication would not be out of place in the story telling. You might even want a landscape shot of Fedora window posters.
-jef
--- On Mon, 1/19/09, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
The most important requirement from a technical point of view is to have the images big enough, so depending on the paper size we may want to resuest something like at least 4 or 5 Megapixels (multiply the page size in inches with 300 DPI and we get the minimum resolution needed in pixels).
Hey, I've been out of touch for the last week and trying to catch up. One thing I would like to suggest is that someone, either Max or Ian W, go to the LSI web site and register us as an official client.
LSI has exact standards that we will have to meet before they WILL accept our books for publication. I'm not sure if they are still the same, but the old standard (mid-2007) used to be that all images had to be 300(+) dpi TIFFs.
I am unsure whether that is the current standard we would have to meet, or not. But before we start, we should know exactly what their standards are. When we register, they will send us all the specs. Then we can shoot for them from the start.
-- Douglas Berry -- slasherzee@fedoraproject.org
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:52:50PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
Hey, I've been out of touch for the last week and trying to catch up. One thing I would like to suggest is that someone, either Max or Ian W, go to the LSI web site and register us as an official client.
LSI has exact standards that we will have to meet before they WILL accept our books for publication. I'm not sure if they are still the same, but the old standard (mid-2007) used to be that all images had to be 300(+) dpi TIFFs.
I am unsure whether that is the current standard we would have to meet, or not. But before we start, we should know exactly what their standards are. When we register, they will send us all the specs. Then we can shoot for them from the start.
I think we ought to wait on this until we have more creative ideas and a lot more photos, and a process for getting those photos on the wiki, and a release form.
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