10:04 a.m.
----- "Sean DALY" <sdaly.be(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'd have to disagree with the statement that attention comes to
any
product "automatically", especially a product not widely known, no
matter how good it is.
Marketing is precisely the art and science of garnering attention. A
great product by itself will establish a tiny niche, but a great
product with sharp marketing will have every chance of becoming very
widely known (there are other factors, such as the state of the
competition, the age of the market, etc). A great product makes
marketing easy; but I'm sure you'd agree that many mediocre (and some
downright awful) products are successful merely by benefiting from
great marketing (and lots of ad spend).
Fedora project contributors certainly know the status of Fedora, but
isn't it a goal to spread the word to others? For example, Windows
users who don't "favor" Windows, but found it on the PC they bought,
and are fed up with malware and crashes, are looking for alternatives?
In that group are many who are switching to Apple (cf. market share
growth and Q4 results, single biggest quarterly Mac sales in its
history), but there are surely others interested in saving money and
replacing Windows XP on existing PCs.
I think all consumers are aware that an OS takes time to develop;
there are millions of Windows users who are aware MS takes years for
each version. The article implies that the mentioned FOSS project
releases have been timed to the Windows 7 release, which is certainly
not the case for Fedora, but as the angle of the story is that there
are alternatives to Windows 7, inaccurate as it is it's not such bad
publicity for Fedora in my view.
I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care about the Fedora
product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth the lies themselves become
truths in the minds of many. I personally care about the Fedora product more so than
gaining 'new consumers' from the Windows market. Retaining our current
consumers/contributors is more important than courting new consumers for me. If they come
they come willingly the best we can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. We
are going to gain new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the correct
information is published for them to even take a look.
-- Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder |
| bob(a)fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ |
| http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ |
| http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen |
| http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
10:18 a.m.
New subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears
I agree with you. When I encounter cases like that for Sugar Labs, in
addition to commenting (or encouraging other contributors to comment)
I put the journalist or blogger on the PR mailing list; they are
better informed next time.
Sean
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen
<bob(a)fedoraunity.org> wrote:
----- "Sean DALY" <sdaly.be(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd have to disagree with the statement that attention comes to any
> product "automatically", especially a product not widely known, no
> matter how good it is.
>
> Marketing is precisely the art and science of garnering attention. A
> great product by itself will establish a tiny niche, but a great
> product with sharp marketing will have every chance of becoming very
> widely known (there are other factors, such as the state of the
> competition, the age of the market, etc). A great product makes
> marketing easy; but I'm sure you'd agree that many mediocre (and some
> downright awful) products are successful merely by benefiting from
> great marketing (and lots of ad spend).
>
> Fedora project contributors certainly know the status of Fedora, but
> isn't it a goal to spread the word to others? For example, Windows
> users who don't "favor" Windows, but found it on the PC they bought,
> and are fed up with malware and crashes, are looking for alternatives?
> In that group are many who are switching to Apple (cf. market share
> growth and Q4 results, single biggest quarterly Mac sales in its
> history), but there are surely others interested in saving money and
> replacing Windows XP on existing PCs.
>
> I think all consumers are aware that an OS takes time to develop;
> there are millions of Windows users who are aware MS takes years for
> each version. The article implies that the mentioned FOSS project
> releases have been timed to the Windows 7 release, which is certainly
> not the case for Fedora, but as the angle of the story is that there
> are alternatives to Windows 7, inaccurate as it is it's not such bad
> publicity for Fedora in my view.
>
I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care about the Fedora
product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth the lies themselves become
truths in the minds of many. I personally care about the Fedora product more so than
gaining 'new consumers' from the Windows market. Retaining our current
consumers/contributors is more important than courting new consumers for me. If they come
they come willingly the best we can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. We
are going to gain new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the correct
information is published for them to even take a look.
-- Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder |
| bob(a)fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ |
| http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ |
| http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen |
| http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
10:21 a.m.
New subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen
<bob(a)fedoraunity.org>wrote:
I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care about
the Fedora product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth the
lies themselves become truths in the minds of many. I personally care about
the Fedora product more so than gaining 'new consumers' from the Windows
market. Retaining our current consumers/contributors is more important than
courting new consumers for me. If they come they come willingly the best we
can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. We are going to gain
new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the correct information
is published for them to even take a look.
Bob is right. We have an obligation to correct inaccuracies in the media.
What's astounding about this is the article, from established ZDNet bloggers
whose "beat" is Linux and Open Source, is completely inaccurate. It speaks
to several issues, but primarily this: How do two established Net writers
who cover Linux and Open Source NOT know the release cycles of major
distros? What's more -- and it's a stretch, but still arguable -- what's to
say Microsoft didn't plan its release of Windows 7 to blunt that of Ubuntu
9.10 (and Fedora 12 for that matter)?
Providing accurate information is the media's job. Correcting them when
they're wrong is ours.
Larry Cafiero
11:25 a.m.
New subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears
Yes, I agree that it's a good idea to set the record straight.
However, there is an ugly truth: the wider the coverage of anything,
the more errors there are... responding to them turns into
whack-a-mole.
To combat that, what's necessary is to go beyond error-correction to
influencing perceptions widely. When perceptions are positive enough,
Fedora users will whack the moles themselves, and clueless
commentators will educate themselves or lose credibility.
A key way to influence perceptions is to cultivate journalists. Nobody
likes to admit they made a mistake. Journalists get called clueless
and worse every day of the week, like everyone they generally accept
constructive criticism though. In this connection, Bob's comment was
exemplary: he politely set the record straight.
What I'm saying is, make changing perceptions part of the plan.
Although the media usually wish to present accurate information, what
they really want is accurate information which is also timely,
interesting, and topical. This is where press releases can play a
major role. Many journalists with 4 stories to file in the day will be
happy to quickly adapt a well-written release and put it up. When that
happens, you've made news, not reacted to it. Over time, awareness
rises within influencers, and next thing you know, most of them will
be able to write from memory that there are two Fedora releases per
year for example. Or whatever branding message you wish to spread -
that Fedora is high-quality, installs easily, etc.
Journalists know that Windows 7 is make-or-break for Microsoft; just
look how MS is taking risks they haven't before such as selling PCs
for the first time ever and painting all their national websites
green. The WinXP -> Win7 upgrade path is wipe and install... the same
as most WinXP -> GNU/Linux installs. So journalists know that now is
perhaps a better time than ever to talk about alternatives. When
Constantine launch time comes, perhaps a talking point to consider
beyond the great features is how upgrading to Fedora can be a better
choice than upgrading to Windows 7.
Sean
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Larry Cafiero <larry.cafiero(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen
<bob(a)fedoraunity.org>
wrote:
>
> I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care
> about the Fedora product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth
> the lies themselves become truths in the minds of many. I personally care
> about the Fedora product more so than gaining 'new consumers' from the
> Windows market. Retaining our current consumers/contributors is more
> important than courting new consumers for me. If they come they come
> willingly the best we can do is put the truth out there and let them decide.
> We are going to gain new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the
> correct information is published for them to even take a look.
Bob is right. We have an obligation to correct inaccuracies in the media.
What's astounding about this is the article, from established ZDNet bloggers
whose "beat" is Linux and Open Source, is completely inaccurate. It speaks
to several issues, but primarily this: How do two established Net writers
who cover Linux and Open Source NOT know the release cycles of major
distros? What's more -- and it's a stretch, but still arguable -- what's to
say Microsoft didn't plan its release of Windows 7 to blunt that of Ubuntu
9.10 (and Fedora 12 for that matter)?
Providing accurate information is the media's job. Correcting them when
they're wrong is ours.
Larry Cafiero
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
7:27 p.m.
New subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sean DALY <sdaly.be(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I agree that it's a good idea to set the record straight.
However, there is an ugly truth: the wider the coverage of anything,
the more errors there are... responding to them turns into
whack-a-mole.
Heh. I think that an exaggeration, but it can turn into that when not done
properly.
To combat that, what's necessary is to go beyond error-correction
to
influencing perceptions widely. When perceptions are positive enough,
Fedora users will whack the moles themselves, and clueless
commentators will educate themselves or lose credibility.
A key way to influence perceptions is to cultivate journalists. Nobody
likes to admit they made a mistake. Journalists get called clueless
and worse every day of the week, like everyone they generally accept
constructive criticism though. In this connection, Bob's comment was
exemplary: he politely set the record straight.
Bob's comment was exemplary, as were others. I'm not so quick to give this
pair a pass on this one. In this case, you have ZDNet's Linux and Open
Source bloggers -- a pair who SHOULD know that release cycles of the distros
in question are roughly six months ("roughly" because OpenSUSE's is not
exactly six; nine, I think, but that's close enough) -- writing something
that, essentially, is false and worse, it's arguably slanted toward
Microsoft.
Again, these two writers are the <steps_back_for_emphasis>LINUX AND OPEN
SOURCE REPORTERS for ZDNet</steps_back_for_emphasis>. If they don't know
that the larger distros -- Ubuntu especially, with their x.04/x.10 naming
convention -- have a six-month cycle, then they really have no business
covering Linux and Open Source for one of the largest, if not the largest,
Web-based tech news portal.
What I'm saying is, make changing perceptions part of the plan.
Although the media usually wish to present accurate information, what
they really want is accurate information which is also timely,
interesting, and topical. This is where press releases can play a
major role. Many journalists with 4 stories to file in the day will be
happy to quickly adapt a well-written release and put it up.
Having been a newspaper editor for 32 years (which is what I do when I'm not
promoting Fedora), you are right about the workload. More times than not,
journalists appreciate being set straight when they're wrong, but more
importantly they are immensely grateful for getting accurate and
well-written information that they can glean (if not outright copy) for
their stories.
When that
happens, you've made news, not reacted to it. Over time, awareness
rises within influencers, and next thing you know, most of them will
be able to write from memory that there are two Fedora releases per
year for example. Or whatever branding message you wish to spread -
that Fedora is high-quality, installs easily, etc.
This is true. But again, I would think anyone who had been covering Linux
and Open Source for any length of time should know that release cycles for
Ubuntu and Fedora have always been six months.
Journalists know that Windows 7 is make-or-break for Microsoft; just
look how MS is taking risks they haven't before such as selling PCs
for the first time ever and painting all their national websites
green.
I hope. Again many reporters in the mainstream media are happy to be
spoon-fed whatever Microsoft provides them, so we should be vigilant about
this.
The WinXP -> Win7 upgrade path is wipe and install... the same
as most WinXP -> GNU/Linux installs. So journalists know that now
is
perhaps a better time than ever to talk about alternatives. When
Constantine launch time comes, perhaps a talking point to consider
beyond the great features is how upgrading to Fedora can be a better
choice than upgrading to Windows 7.
That would be great. Is there anything on the drawing board?
Larry Cafiero
6:37 a.m.
New subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears
thanks Larry for that
to be clear, I do agree that the ZDNet piece was poorly written.
Contrast with http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/win7_launch/
which from the same information provides more meaningful analysis...
In my view, open source as a reporter's beat is past its prime. A few
short years ago, many large IT shops needed explanations due to their
dependence on the monoculture. I don't think that's the case anymore;
FLOSS has found its place in most areas of computing (desktop OSes
being a notable exception). After all, there is no "proprietary
software" beat, but organization by vertical market or technical
class. I myself am much more focused on the K-6 education vertical
market, and tend to want to see things through that prism; pundits in
that area compare FLOSS to proprietary all the time.
For good coverage of FLOSS, ars technica has a well-deserved
reputation, their analysis is based on actual reviews such as this
one:
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/10/ars-takes-a-first-look...
Sean
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Larry Cafiero <larry.cafiero(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sean DALY <sdaly.be(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree that it's a good idea to set the record straight.
> However, there is an ugly truth: the wider the coverage of anything,
> the more errors there are... responding to them turns into
> whack-a-mole.
Heh. I think that an exaggeration, but it can turn into that when not done
properly.
>
> To combat that, what's necessary is to go beyond error-correction to
> influencing perceptions widely. When perceptions are positive enough,
> Fedora users will whack the moles themselves, and clueless
> commentators will educate themselves or lose credibility.
>
> A key way to influence perceptions is to cultivate journalists. Nobody
> likes to admit they made a mistake. Journalists get called clueless
> and worse every day of the week, like everyone they generally accept
> constructive criticism though. In this connection, Bob's comment was
> exemplary: he politely set the record straight.
Bob's comment was exemplary, as were others. I'm not so quick to give this
pair a pass on this one. In this case, you have ZDNet's Linux and Open
Source bloggers -- a pair who SHOULD know that release cycles of the distros
in question are roughly six months ("roughly" because OpenSUSE's is not
exactly six; nine, I think, but that's close enough) -- writing something
that, essentially, is false and worse, it's arguably slanted toward
Microsoft.
Again, these two writers are the <steps_back_for_emphasis>LINUX AND OPEN
SOURCE REPORTERS for ZDNet</steps_back_for_emphasis>. If they don't know
that the larger distros -- Ubuntu especially, with their x.04/x.10 naming
convention -- have a six-month cycle, then they really have no business
covering Linux and Open Source for one of the largest, if not the largest,
Web-based tech news portal.
>
> What I'm saying is, make changing perceptions part of the plan.
> Although the media usually wish to present accurate information, what
> they really want is accurate information which is also timely,
> interesting, and topical. This is where press releases can play a
> major role. Many journalists with 4 stories to file in the day will be
> happy to quickly adapt a well-written release and put it up.
Having been a newspaper editor for 32 years (which is what I do when I'm not
promoting Fedora), you are right about the workload. More times than not,
journalists appreciate being set straight when they're wrong, but more
importantly they are immensely grateful for getting accurate and
well-written information that they can glean (if not outright copy) for
their stories.
>
> When that
> happens, you've made news, not reacted to it. Over time, awareness
> rises within influencers, and next thing you know, most of them will
> be able to write from memory that there are two Fedora releases per
> year for example. Or whatever branding message you wish to spread -
> that Fedora is high-quality, installs easily, etc.
This is true. But again, I would think anyone who had been covering Linux
and Open Source for any length of time should know that release cycles for
Ubuntu and Fedora have always been six months.
>
> Journalists know that Windows 7 is make-or-break for Microsoft; just
> look how MS is taking risks they haven't before such as selling PCs
> for the first time ever and painting all their national websites
> green.
I hope. Again many reporters in the mainstream media are happy to be
spoon-fed whatever Microsoft provides them, so we should be vigilant about
this.
> The WinXP -> Win7 upgrade path is wipe and install... the same
> as most WinXP -> GNU/Linux installs. So journalists know that now is
> perhaps a better time than ever to talk about alternatives. When
> Constantine launch time comes, perhaps a talking point to consider
> beyond the great features is how upgrading to Fedora can be a better
> choice than upgrading to Windows 7.
That would be great. Is there anything on the drawing board?
Larry Cafiero
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
4:13 p.m.
New subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears
----- "Sean DALY" <sdaly.be(a)gmail.com> wrote:
thanks Larry for that
to be clear, I do agree that the ZDNet piece was poorly written.
Contrast with
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/win7_launch/
which from the same information provides more meaningful analysis...
In my view, open source as a reporter's beat is past its prime. A few
short years ago, many large IT shops needed explanations due to their
dependence on the monoculture. I don't think that's the case anymore;
FLOSS has found its place in most areas of computing (desktop OSes
being a notable exception). After all, there is no "proprietary
software" beat, but organization by vertical market or technical
class. I myself am much more focused on the K-6 education vertical
market, and tend to want to see things through that prism; pundits in
that area compare FLOSS to proprietary all the time.
For good coverage of FLOSS, ars technica has a well-deserved
reputation, their analysis is based on actual reviews such as this
one:
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/10/ars-takes-a-first-look...
Sean
/me makes no comment about Sean's top posting...
-- Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder |
| bob(a)fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ |
| http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ |
| http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen |
| http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5296
days inactive
5297
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
6 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Larry Cafiero -
Robert 'Bob' Jensen -
Sean DALY