10:04 a.m.
FWIW I think #1 is counter to the point of Fedora. If we do it right,
this won't need to be true. In fact, Red Hat's (real and perceived)
holding on so tightly to the reigns is probably 80% of what's not gone
right with this project.
There is tremendous power to a mix of RH and non-RH spokespeople, the
most obvious of which is that folks have to take anything a RH staff
member says with the "publicly held always-for-profit" grain of salt.
As long as the spokespeople are informed, or can easily be in touch
with RH for coaching/info/feedback, RH's message will be part of the
Fedora message. Otherwise we will continue to re-inforce that this
project is purely for the benefit of, and at the whim of RH.
Fedora has to appear free to become something other than what RH
dictates, or else it is nothing but a RHEL beta.
The important thing is that we are in sync with RH on what the core
message is, and how to speak about RHs involvement. If we trust the
message, we can trust the messenger.
--jeremy
On 8/29/05, David Barzilay <barzilay(a)redhat.com> wrote:
--
--
David Barzilay
Brazilian Portuguese
Technical Translator
Red Hat Asia-Pacific
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Barzilay <barzilay(a)redhat.com>
To: Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com>, Mark Webbink <mwebbink(a)redhat.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:58:31 +1000
Subject: Re: Fedora Foundation around the world
On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 09:38 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> And then I'd like your input on the idea of Community Marketing Contacts
> (CMCs), and whether you think this is a sufficient body for getting
> global input.
Dear Greg and Mark,
Initially, I believe the idea of Community Marketing Contacts is great!
I don't know who are the people you intend choosing to cover the globe,
but I have a few concerns I thought I should address here:
1) They have to be RedHatters, and native speakers of the specific
language. Otherwise, I don't think they'll be able to thoroughly
represent RH in a certain community nor understand their needs;
2) I know a few members of our i18n team
(http://intranet.corp.redhat.com/ic/intranet/EngInternationalizationLocali...),
who would probably enjoy the challenge, but majority of us is sited in Brisbane
(Australia), so wouldn't make the local events and LUGs;
3) How are we dealing with laws in different countries (e.g.: I need a
non-for-profit organization registration number to register a .org.br
domain name in Brazil...)
For a start, I'd suggest creating a Marketing Plan for the Fedora
Foundation as if RH was launching a brand new product, allowing enough
time for the Community Marketing Contacts to adapt the materials to all
languages, and coordinating timely news publishing.
Feel free to browse through our team's intranet page (above), and don't
hesitate to contact me if your need further assistance.
To request a Localization job, please go to:
https://i18n.brisbane.redhat.com/rt3/index.html
Thanks,
--
David Barzilay
Brazilian Portuguese
Technical Translator
Red Hat Asia-Pacific
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
10:41 a.m.
Exactly right, Jeremy. Well said.
Hey, maybe you could do *my* job! (Oh, wait...)
--g
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Jeremy Hogan wrote:
FWIW I think #1 is counter to the point of Fedora. If we do it
right,
this won't need to be true. In fact, Red Hat's (real and perceived)
holding on so tightly to the reigns is probably 80% of what's not gone
right with this project.
There is tremendous power to a mix of RH and non-RH spokespeople, the
most obvious of which is that folks have to take anything a RH staff
member says with the "publicly held always-for-profit" grain of salt.
As long as the spokespeople are informed, or can easily be in touch
with RH for coaching/info/feedback, RH's message will be part of the
Fedora message. Otherwise we will continue to re-inforce that this
project is purely for the benefit of, and at the whim of RH.
Fedora has to appear free to become something other than what RH
dictates, or else it is nothing but a RHEL beta.
The important thing is that we are in sync with RH on what the core
message is, and how to speak about RHs involvement. If we trust the
message, we can trust the messenger.
--jeremy
On 8/29/05, David Barzilay <barzilay(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> --
> --
> David Barzilay
> Brazilian Portuguese
> Technical Translator
> Red Hat Asia-Pacific
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Barzilay <barzilay(a)redhat.com>
> To: Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com>, Mark Webbink
<mwebbink(a)redhat.com>
> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:58:31 +1000
> Subject: Re: Fedora Foundation around the world
> On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 09:38 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> > And then I'd like your input on the idea of Community Marketing Contacts
> > (CMCs), and whether you think this is a sufficient body for getting
> > global input.
>
> Dear Greg and Mark,
>
> Initially, I believe the idea of Community Marketing Contacts is great!
>
> I don't know who are the people you intend choosing to cover the globe,
> but I have a few concerns I thought I should address here:
>
> 1) They have to be RedHatters, and native speakers of the specific
> language. Otherwise, I don't think they'll be able to thoroughly
> represent RH in a certain community nor understand their needs;
>
> 2) I know a few members of our i18n team
>
(http://intranet.corp.redhat.com/ic/intranet/EngInternationalizationLocali...),
who would probably enjoy the challenge, but majority of us is sited in Brisbane
(Australia), so wouldn't make the local events and LUGs;
>
> 3) How are we dealing with laws in different countries (e.g.: I need a
> non-for-profit organization registration number to register a .org.br
> domain name in Brazil...)
>
> For a start, I'd suggest creating a Marketing Plan for the Fedora
> Foundation as if RH was launching a brand new product, allowing enough
> time for the Community Marketing Contacts to adapt the materials to all
> languages, and coordinating timely news publishing.
>
> Feel free to browse through our team's intranet page (above), and don't
> hesitate to contact me if your need further assistance.
>
> To request a Localization job, please go to:
> https://i18n.brisbane.redhat.com/rt3/index.html
>
> Thanks,
> --
> David Barzilay
> Brazilian Portuguese
> Technical Translator
> Red Hat Asia-Pacific
>
>
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>
>
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
8:27 p.m.
Hi Folks,
Just a few points from a non-native English speaker...
On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 11:04 -0400, Jeremy Hogan wrote:
FWIW I think #1 is counter to the point of Fedora. If we do it
right,
this won't need to be true. In fact, Red Hat's (real and perceived)
holding on so tightly to the reigns is probably 80% of what's not gone
right with this project.
There is tremendous power to a mix of RH and non-RH spokespeople, the
most obvious of which is that folks have to take anything a RH staff
member says with the "publicly held always-for-profit" grain of salt.
Agreed
As long as the spokespeople are informed,
That's exactly the point I am trying to make. I was asked for input on
the idea of Community Marketing Contacts being enough for global input.
Well, how many fluent languages are represented within the current
selected group? What's the possible global coverage by these people?
Whoever the spokespeople are, how do you intend to overcome the language
barriers to keep them well informed?
The important thing is that we are in sync with RH on what the core
message is, and how to speak about RHs involvement. If we trust the
message, we can trust the messenger.
You probably can. But, do you intend to spread the message only in
English?
Who would you trust to adapt the message into different languages, and
make sure it is in sync with RH?
Thanks for listening!
Cheers,
--
David Barzilay
10:55 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:27 +1000, David Barzilay wrote:
> As long as the spokespeople are informed,
That's exactly the point I am trying to make. I was asked for input on
the idea of Community Marketing Contacts being enough for global input.
Well, how many fluent languages are represented within the current
selected group? What's the possible global coverage by these people?
Whoever the spokespeople are, how do you intend to overcome the language
barriers to keep them well informed?
> The important thing is that we are in sync with RH on what the core
> message is, and how to speak about RHs involvement. If we trust the
> message, we can trust the messenger.
You probably can. But, do you intend to spread the message only in
English?
Who would you trust to adapt the message into different languages, and
make sure it is in sync with RH?
Is this something the translation team might be interested in?
We've discussed creating "marketing packs" or "FUDCon in a box"
that has
the pieces and directions to hosting a local Fedora event. These can be
very standardized. They can be created collaboratively via a Wiki, and
we can use DocBook (slides and book) to create the final format,
allowing us to use the translation process as-is.
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
12:38 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Karsten Wade wrote:
Is this something the translation team might be interested in?
Might just turn out to be a killer idea :)
We've discussed creating "marketing packs" or
"FUDCon in a box" that has
the pieces and directions to hosting a local Fedora event. These can be
very standardized. They can be created collaboratively via a Wiki, and
we can use DocBook (slides and book) to create the final format,
allowing us to use the translation process as-is.
Given that the GNOME Tour concept is creating the right waves, creating
Marketing Packs or FUDCon (Fedora ?) in a Box would provide the right
impetus towards setting the interaction in process.
Regards
Sankarshan
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8:57 a.m.
On 8/29/05, David Barzilay <barzilay(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> As long as the spokespeople are informed,
Whoever the spokespeople are, how do you intend to overcome the language
barriers to keep them well informed?
FWIW, I was in total agreement on the language issue, my point was whether
all CMCs should be Red Hatters or not.
--jeremy
9:51 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:27 +1000, David Barzilay wrote:
That's exactly the point I am trying to make. I was asked for
input on
the idea of Community Marketing Contacts being enough for global input.
We want a CMC to be of a global nature. I.e. we expect a CMC in /every/
country. Be it RH or not. 2, having a lead and a co-lead will help
Well, how many fluent languages are represented within the current
selected group? What's the possible global coverage by these people?
This current group is expected to grow
Whoever the spokespeople are, how do you intend to overcome the
language
barriers to keep them well informed?
I am presuming that a CMC will be bilingual at least - she will be able
to speak English (converse with us) as well as her own community. And if
her community is large and wants to converse in their own language, they
can get their own mailing list (we have support for this already)
> The important thing is that we are in sync with RH on what the
core
> message is, and how to speak about RHs involvement. If we trust the
> message, we can trust the messenger.
You probably can. But, do you intend to spread the message only in
English?
No. But baby steps, we will start with whats most common. After that,
translations are dependent on CMCs or their leverages with translators
Who would you trust to adapt the message into different languages,
and
make sure it is in sync with RH?
We have to localise. And we'd have to hope that its in sync with what we
say. How are we going to QA it? Well, this is where we let OSS take its
stand, and its called "RH letting go of some control"
Some malicious CMC can do something bad, but why volunteer for a job
that you want to sabotage? Its like a malicious Fedora Extras
contributor we're worried about... all possible, but realistically,
let's be a bit more trusting
Thanks for listening!
Thanks for sharing! Can we count you as a CMC in your region?
--
Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/
6:12 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 00:51 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
No. But baby steps, we will start with whats most common. After
that,
translations are dependent on CMCs or their leverages with translators
There seems to be _a_lot_ of passion for open source within the
translation community.
CMC work is a fantastic way for translators to get more involved in
helping and growing the community.
As we all can attest to, the community is much more than the bits in
CVS.
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
6:48 p.m.
Hi All!
A few comments below...
On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 00:51 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:27 +1000, David Barzilay wrote:
> That's exactly the point I am trying to make. I was asked for input on
> the idea of Community Marketing Contacts being enough for global input.
We want a CMC to be of a global nature. I.e. we expect a CMC in /every/
country. Be it RH or not. 2, having a lead and a co-lead will help
> Well, how many fluent languages are represented within the current
> selected group? What's the possible global coverage by these people?
This current group is expected to grow
Great! I thought so ;)
> Whoever the spokespeople are, how do you intend to overcome the language
> barriers to keep them well informed?
I am presuming that a CMC will be bilingual at least - she will be able
to speak English (converse with us) as well as her own community. And if
her community is large and wants to converse in their own language, they
can get their own mailing list (we have support for this already)
Yep! FWIW, we already have several existing mailing lists for
translation purposes (see
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/translations/)
> > The important thing is that we are in sync with RH on what
the core
> > message is, and how to speak about RHs involvement. If we trust the
> > message, we can trust the messenger.
>
> You probably can. But, do you intend to spread the message only in
> English?
No. But baby steps, we will start with whats most common. After that,
translations are dependent on CMCs or their leverages with translators
What if the CMCs were one or two translators within their already
established communities? As I said before, I'm up for it, and guess some
other members of my team might also be interested..
> Who would you trust to adapt the message into different languages, and
> make sure it is in sync with RH?
We have to localise. And we'd have to hope that its in sync with what we
say. How are we going to QA it? Well, this is where we let OSS take its
stand, and its called "RH letting go of some control"
Some malicious CMC can do something bad, but why volunteer for a job
that you want to sabotage? Its like a malicious Fedora Extras
contributor we're worried about... all possible, but realistically,
let's be a bit more trusting
Totally agree. I am just suggesting to face Fedora's worldwide marketing
challenges on a more professional basis. I trust many of the
contributors, but realistically I cannot always *count on* them...
> Thanks for listening!
Thanks for sharing! Can we count you as a CMC in your region?
Thumbs up!
--
David Barzilay
Brazilian Portuguese
Technical Translator
Red Hat Asia-Pacific
6811
days inactive
6814
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Colin Charles -
David Barzilay -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Jeremy Hogan -
Karsten Wade -
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay