Re: thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[John Babich]

Karsten:

First of all, sorry if I'm posting to the wrong list. As part of our
preparation for GITEX, I have
had to think about two things recently:

1. Fedora's branding, and
2. Fedora's identity

I viewed the excellent presentation (yes, I pressed F5). Here are some
conclusions I drew from the slideshow:

ONE: BRANDING

Here is the crux of the matter:

In a commercial context, this is the definition of BRANDING:

 The main purpose of branding is to get
MORE people to buy MORE stuff
      for MORE years at a HIGHER price.

This definition doesn't make sense for a FLOSS community distribution.
This definition makes more sense in the Fedora Project context:

 The main purpose of branding is to get
MORE people to produce AND consume MORE FLOSS
     for MORE years at a HIGHER rate.

To further clarify, a strong Fedora brand will communicate the "Trust
= Reliability and Delight" formula:

Fedora: the Linux distro you can depend on (and more fun, too!)

Reliability = Quality and dependability
Delight = Cool technology with great design and the enjoyable gut
feeling of "scratching the user's itch"

TWO: IDENTITY

As pointed out in the presentation, "Identity is not a logo". At the
same time, we don't want to confuse people by mixing the Fedora and
Red Hat logos together. I'm glad Fedora is sponsored by Red Hat. I
also appreciate the need for Fedora to have its own identity. This
goes beyond legal issues like trademarks to providing quality and
reliability.

I say the Fedora identity is the experience of being part of the
Fedora Project community. The Fedora Project, warts and all, is a
quality open source community that produces a quality distro. That's
the differentiator.

CONCLUSION

The purpose of the Fedora Project is to produce and sustain a
leading-edge linux distribution with excellent developer and user
community support.

That's what Fedora offers and sets Fedora apart.

> From a 10-year linux user and 1-year Fedora Project member, 
John Babich
Volunteer, Fedora Project

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, John Babich wrote:

>  CONCLUSION
>
>  The purpose of the Fedora Project is to produce and sustain a
>  leading-edge linux distribution with excellent developer and user
>  community support. 
Very good.  I'd make one change:

s/a leading edge/THE leading edge

Because our purpose is to be THE leading edge Linux distribution.  Let's 
not be modest about this goal, since other distros aren't modest about 
theirs.

--g

-- 
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Mike McGrath]

Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
>  On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, John Babich wrote:
>
> > CONCLUSION
> >
> > The purpose of the Fedora Project is to produce and sustain a
> > leading-edge linux distribution with excellent developer and user
> > community support.
>
>  Very good.  I'd make one change:
>
>  s/a leading edge/THE leading edge
>
>  Because our purpose is to be THE leading edge Linux distribution.  
>  Let's not be modest about this goal, since other distros aren't modest 
>  about theirs. 
Where is the appropriate place to put this on the website?  
wiki/Overview is completely unfocused.

    -Mike

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Nicu Buculei]

Mike McGrath wrote:
>  Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
> > On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, John Babich wrote:
> >>
> >> The purpose of the Fedora Project is to produce and sustain a
> >> leading-edge linux distribution with excellent developer and user
> >> community support.
> >
> > Very good.  I'd make one change:
> >
> > s/a leading edge/THE leading edge
> >
> > Because our purpose is to be THE leading edge Linux distribution.  
> > Let's not be modest about this goal, since other distros aren't modest 
> > about theirs.
>  
>  Where is the appropriate place to put this on the website?  
>  wiki/Overview is completely unfocused. 
Front page.
Just along or instead of "Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that 
showcases the latest in free and open source software". (preferable 
instead of, as a shorter phrase has more impact)

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Rahul Sundaram]

Mike McGrath wrote:

>  Where is the appropriate place to put this on the website?  
>  wiki/Overview is completely unfocused. 
Frontpage of Fedora already has this:

"The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of 
free, open software and content."

Maybe a short form of this should be our slogan?

Rahul

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

> > Where is the appropriate place to put this on the website? 
> wiki/Overview 
> > is completely unfocused.
>
>  Frontpage of Fedora already has this:
>
>  "The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free, 
>  open software and content."
>
>  Maybe a short form of this should be our slogan? 
Something pithy.  Bold, but true and defensible.

Fedora.  Leading by example.

Fedora.  Leaders of the Free World.

Can we do it in five words?  :)

--g

-- 
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Rahul Sundaram]

Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:

>  
>  Fedora.  Leading by example.
>  
>  Fedora.  Leaders of the Free World.
>  
>  Can we do it in five words?  :)
>   
Leading by example doesn't say what kind of example we are trying to 
set.  "Free world" is a bit too vague too and a bit amusing with the 
patents on software situation.

"Leading Free Software" can be interpreted to mean that we are leading 
the advancement of Free software or we are leaders in Free software. I 
like both these meanings.

The only problem I can see is free vs gratis confusion in that. If you 
want to try another angle

"Leading Software Freedom"
"Leading Software Libre"

How is that any different from one of those FSF endorsed distributions? 
Do end users care enough about the Free software aspect of it?  I don't 
want us to be struck on debates on definitions of freedom forever either.

Rahul

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Gain Paolo Mureddu]

Rahul Sundaram escribió:
>  Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
>
> >
> > Fedora.  Leading by example.
> >
> > Fedora.  Leaders of the Free World.
> >
> > Can we do it in five words?  :)
> >
>
>  Leading by example doesn't say what kind of example we are trying to 
>  set.  "Free world" is a bit too vague too and a bit amusing with the 
>  patents on software situation.
>
>  "Leading Free Software" can be interpreted to mean that we are leading 
>  the advancement of Free software or we are leaders in Free software. I 
>  like both these meanings.
>
>  The only problem I can see is free vs gratis confusion in that. If you 
>  want to try another angle
>
>  "Leading Software Freedom"
>  "Leading Software Libre"
>
>  How is that any different from one of those FSF endorsed 
>  distributions? Do end users care enough about the Free software aspect 
>  of it?  I don't want us to be struck on debates on definitions of 
>  freedom forever either.
>
>  Rahul
>  
I like both of the last corrections you made:

"Fedora: Leading Software Freedom"

The other, "Leading Software Libre" is not bad either, but the first, I 
think, has an implicit empowerment of "freedom", while the later only 
describes the situation of the Software (as "libre" or "free" 
["liberated"])... MY personal opinion, though.

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:

>  Rahul Sundaram escribió:
> > Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> Fedora.  Leading by example.
> >> 
> >> Fedora.  Leaders of the Free World.
> >> 
> >> Can we do it in five words?  :)
> >> 
> > 
> > Leading by example doesn't say what kind of example we are trying to set. 
> > "Free world" is a bit too vague too and a bit amusing with the patents on 
> > software situation.
> > 
> > "Leading Free Software" can be interpreted to mean that we are leading the
>
> > advancement of Free software or we are leaders in Free software. I like 
> > both these meanings.
> > 
> > The only problem I can see is free vs gratis confusion in that. If you want 
> > to try another angle
> > 
> > "Leading Software Freedom"
> > "Leading Software Libre"
> > 
> > How is that any different from one of those FSF endorsed distributions? Do 
> > end users care enough about the Free software aspect of it?  I don't want 
> > us to be struck on debates on definitions of freedom forever either.
> > 
> > Rahul
> > 
>  I like both of the last corrections you made:
>
>  "Fedora: Leading Software Freedom"
>
>  The other, "Leading Software Libre" is not bad either, but the first, I 
>  think, has an implicit empowerment of "freedom", while the later only 
>  describes the situation of the Software (as "libre" or "free" 
>  ["liberated"])... MY personal opinion, though. 
How about "Fedora: Leading the Fight For Software Freedom"?

I like having "Fight" in there.  Stirs up the passions.  :)

--g

-- 
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Bryan J. Smith]

Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  How about "Fedora: Leading the Fight For Software
> Freedom"?
>  I like having "Fight" in there.  Stirs up the passions.  :) 
Nah, I don't really care for anything related to "conflict" myself. 
In fact, I rather dislike those who constantly "pick fights" with me
when I'm just trying to do my 'thang (although I could be guilty of
being abrasive or not carefully tactful at times in e-mail and guilty
of causing it).

Give you an example ...

I'm new to photography.  I have a Pentax K100D dSLR (bought it in
April).  There is _no_shortage_ of people who come up to me and tell
me and say things like ...
  "Why didn't you buy a Canon or Nikon?"
  "I've never heard of Pentax"
  "Pentax doesn't have in-lens image stabilization and motors"
  "Pentax has so few digital lenses compared to Canon or Nikon"
Or Point'n Shoot users who say ...
  "Why did you go dSLR, a 'bridge' camera is better?"
  "I can get 3fps on my cheaper camera!"
  "I have a lower aperature, your lenses are slow!"
  "Pentax, nobody bought those except 1970 photo students"
Etc...

When I'm just out and trying to photograph things.  Sigh.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   Professional, Technical Annoyance
b.j.smith(a)ieee.org    http://thebs413.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------
     Fission Power:  An Inconvenient Solution

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Bryan J. Smith wrote:

>  Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> > How about "Fedora: Leading the Fight For Software Freedom"?
> > I like having "Fight" in there.  Stirs up the passions.  :)
>
>  Nah, I don't really care for anything related to "conflict" myself. 
Well, you're wrong, dammit!

Okay, point taken.  How about something a little more socialist realism? 
Something like, "the struggle for software freedom"?  Because Fedora is 
nothing if not stuggle.  :)

--g

-- 
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Paul Stauffer]

On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 12:27:44PM -0400, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
>  Okay, point taken.  How about something a little more socialist
> realism? 
>  Something like, "the struggle for software freedom"?  Because Fedora is 
>  nothing if not stuggle.  :) 
I don't think associating Fedora with the word "struggle" will do us any
favors in the marketing realm. :)

- Paul

-- 
Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu&gt;
Manager of Research Computing
Computer Science Department
Boston University

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Bryan Smith]

Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Well, you're wrong, dammit! 
I'm always wrong.  ;)

>  Okay, point taken.  How about something a little more socialist
>  realism?  Something like, "the struggle for software freedom"?
>  Because Fedora is nothing if not stuggle.  :) 
How about ...  

  "Fedora:  The Vigilance of Community [Software] Innovation"
  "Fedora:  Community [Software] Innovation and Vigilance"
  "Fedora:  Community [Software] Vigilance By Example"
   Etc...

Some combination of "Innovation" and "Vigilance."

There is necessary conflict, and conflict for conflict's sake.
We want to focus on the former, not join the latter.  ;)

Of course, there's always ...  

  "Fedora:  More Than Just Free Bling
   Don't Make BillieG Your Computer's Pimp"



-- 
Bryan J. Smith   Professional, Technical Annoyance
b.j.smith(a)ieee.org    http://thebs413.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------
     Fission Power:  An Inconvenient Solution

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Bryan J. Smith]

Gian Paolo Mureddu <gmureddu(a)prodigy.net.mx&gt; wrote:
>  "Fedora: Leading Software Freedom" 
>  The other, "Leading Software Libre" is not bad either, but the
>  first, I think, has an implicit empowerment of "freedom", while
>  the later only describes the situation of the Software (as "libre"
>  or "free" ["liberated"])... MY personal opinion, though. 
Then why not say "Community"?  Avoids the entire PC** issue
altogether.

  "Fedora:  Leading Innovation by Example"
  "Fedora:  Leading Community Software Innovation"  
   Etc...

**NOTE:  Yeah, I'm sick of "Freedom" being considered a "Bad
Word(TM)."  I might be a biased, American Libertarian and "Capitalist
Pig(R)" but I know what Freedom is, and it's not incompatible with
the concept of "Libre."  In fact, Freedom to me encompasses far more.
 But I know I'm not in the majority on that viewpoint, and it's not
PC to think such, but that's just me.

-- 
Bryan J. Smith   Professional, Technical Annoyance
b.j.smith(a)ieee.org    http://thebs413.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------
     Fission Power:  An Inconvenient Solution

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Karlie Robinson]

We're already saying infinite freedom with the logo, so what about 
playing up the cutting edge aspect of Fedora?

It doesn't even have to say "Leadership."

Fedora. Advancing Computing... Or Linux, Or something.

(Don't you hate it when you have a great idea, take a phone call, and 
then you're idea is no where to be found? -If it comes back I'll send it)

~Karlie

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  How is that any different from one of those FSF endorsed
> distributions? 
>  Do end users care enough about the Free software aspect of it?  I don't 
>  want us to be struck on debates on definitions of freedom forever either.
>  
>  Rahul
>

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 03 août 2007 à 20:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
>  "Free world" is a bit too vague too and a bit amusing with
> the 
>  patents on software situation. 
Free world has been so much abused by USSA politicians it has a definite
bad connotation in many countries. I'd avoid it.

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Bryan J. Smith]

Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Something pithy.  Bold, but true and defensible.
>  Fedora.  Leading by example. 
Almost perfect!

How about ...
  "Fedora:  Leading Innovation by Example"  

And possibly the sub-slogan ...
  "We're Not Just a Distro"



-- 
Bryan J. Smith   Professional, Technical Annoyance
b.j.smith(a)ieee.org    http://thebs413.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------
     Fission Power:  An Inconvenient Solution

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Bill Nottingham]

Rahul Sundaram (sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org) said: 
>  Frontpage of Fedora already has this:
>
>  "The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free, 
>  open software and content." 
Isn't the guy who leads the charge waving the flag the one that gets
shot first?

Bill

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Rahul Sundaram]

Bill Nottingham wrote:
>  Rahul Sundaram (sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org) said: 
> > Frontpage of Fedora already has this:
> >
> > "The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free, 
> > open software and content."
>  
>  Isn't the guy who leads the charge waving the flag the one that gets
>  shot first? 
It sure looks like we are getting shot all the time. Haven't you 
answered your MP3 question this week?

Rahul

thinking about the Fedora brand (WARNING: this is for you)

[Jeremy Hogan]

>  In a commercial context, this is the definition of BRANDING:
>
>  The main purpose of branding is to get
>  MORE people to buy MORE stuff
>        for MORE years at a HIGHER price. 

IIRC, the original quote was from a Coca-Cola CEO about the purpose of a
BUSINESS, not BRAND per se:
"To get more people to buy more stuff, more often, so that you make more
money."

You're right in that it is an obvious goal for Red Hat to have, but I think
the sentiment still works in the context of Fedora:
"To get more people to using more free software, so that free software
grows."

Which still fits RHATs financial goal in that the more free software users
there are, the more stuff RHAT can sell them.

FWIW, I think a better definition of brand is that "it is the delta between
what you say and what you do." The promise versus the experience.

For example, Fedora promises a Red Hat sponsored, community-supported OS
made exclusively from Free Software. And it delivers that, so Fedora is on
brand in that capacity.

--jeremy