What Apple does for its OS is what Fedora should also do. Which is a collection of additional optional software that can do multimedia and enhance existing technologies. The "fedoraLife" Concept is several visuals accompanied by descriptions that will inspire many Fedora programmers to come up with programs that is missing in Fedora. What is missing in Fedora? Well, to begin with, there is no iPhoto-like software to view photos in a photo album-like setting. Another missing software is an iMovie-like application that edits video and audio from a digital source using OGG Theora or some other video codec. Another missing software is a Toast-like GUI that uses the already existing dvd/cd burning tools. And another missing software would combine Skype-like tools with a tool for Virtual Conventions/Meetings. This will be very useful in the future. This concept will make Fedora unique and more useful than all of the other Linux Distros available now. The "fedoraLife" suite won't be included in the Core installation, instead the suite or any of the components can be downloaded off the internet via Anaconda installer. Eventually, the "Everything" Spin will include the entire suite. Fedora has a bright future, don't squander it... The Concept PDF is available for downloading on my linux blog...
Mark McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA, USA
Ok, the first thing that I mention here is that fedora is a very different kind of monster than that of Mac OS X/10.x. That said, the fedora project doesn't need to completely go down the path that Apple Inc. has. As you said that in the document, Ubuntu seems to content to fill that hole. I think that it would be best left to them.
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined 'fedoraLife'. Now admiringly, the tools and applications found in Art Studio are not all geared for ease-of-use like Ubuntu Studio or the iLife suite. I will also admit that Art Studio was announced a while ago, but has yet to produce a ISO. They need help, you might consider helping them since you are on a similar frame of thought. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio
On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 12:46 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote:
What Apple does for its OS is what Fedora should also do. Which is a collection of additional optional software that can do multimedia and enhance existing technologies. The "fedoraLife" Concept is several visuals accompanied by descriptions that will inspire many Fedora programmers to come up with programs that is missing in Fedora. What is missing in Fedora? Well, to begin with, there is no iPhoto-like software to view photos in a photo album-like setting. Another missing software is an iMovie-like application that edits video and audio from a digital source using OGG Theora or some other video codec. Another missing software is a Toast-like GUI that uses the already existing dvd/cd burning tools. And another missing software would combine Skype-like tools with a tool for Virtual Conventions/Meetings. This will be very useful in the future. This concept will make Fedora unique and more useful than all of the other Linux Distros available now. The "fedoraLife" suite won't be included in the Core installation, instead the suite or any of the components can be downloaded off the internet via Anaconda installer. Eventually, the "Everything" Spin will include the entire suite. Fedora has a bright future, don't squander it...
The Concept PDF is available for downloading on my linux blog...
Mark McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA, USA -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Duvelle Jones wrote:
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined 'fedoraLife'. Now admiringly, the tools and applications found in Art Studio are not all geared for ease-of-use like Ubuntu Studio or the iLife suite.
Wait a minute. How is Ubuntu Studio geared for ease-of-use?
~m
I'll be honest, I am not sure... Ubuntu is known for more polish than most distro's, so I am going mostly by what I have seen and heard. Doesn't mean that it's true.
On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 21:57 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Duvelle Jones wrote:
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined 'fedoraLife'. Now admiringly, the tools and applications found in Art Studio are not all geared for ease-of-use like Ubuntu Studio or the iLife suite.
Wait a minute. How is Ubuntu Studio geared for ease-of-use?
~m
Duvelle Jones wrote:
I'll be honest, I am not sure... Ubuntu is known for more polish than most distro's, so I am going mostly by what I have seen and heard. Doesn't mean that it's true.
It's all smoke and mirrors. I think what Markus is getting at is that we need to develop that perception of usability and user-friendliness in our marketing materials. Somehow Ubuntu has managed to do this without honestly doing much of actual utility in the distro itself.
~m
That would be somewhat hard to do, with fedora anyway.
On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 23:20 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
It's all smoke and mirrors. I think what Markus is getting at is that we need to develop that perception of usability and user-friendliness in our marketing materials. Somehow Ubuntu has managed to do this without honestly doing much of actual utility in the distro itself.
~m
Just that we would be up against Fedora's ever so changing perception and at the moment, "usability and user-friendliness" seems somewhat off that perception. That doesn't mean that we aren't, hell there is much in fedora that would turn that perception on it's head. But as with Red Hat, our own enemy would be ourselves and changing how people think when the Fedora Project.
On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 23:52 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Duvelle Jones wrote:
That would be somewhat hard to do, with fedora anyway.
Why would that be difficult to do if Ubuntu was able to do it? I don't understand.
~m
Duvelle Jones wrote:
Just that we would be up against Fedora's ever so changing perception and at the moment, "usability and user-friendliness" seems somewhat off that perception.
- How can you say Fedora's perception is 'ever so changing'? What is that statement based on?
- How do you see Fedora's perception? How is it not related to usability and user-friendliness?
That doesn't mean that we aren't, hell there is much in fedora that would turn that perception on it's head. But as with Red Hat, our own enemy would be ourselves and changing how people think when the Fedora Project.
- How is Red Hat it's own enemy? What are you talking about?
I guess I am most concerned about:
- What Fedora actually *IS* - How we market Fedora for people's perceptions of it to be more fully in-line with what is actually *IS* and what we are striving for it to become.
And I'm really interested in your ideas on the latter, especially.
~m
Duvelle Jones wrote:
Ok, the first thing that I mention here is that fedora is a very different kind of monster than that of Mac OS X/10.x. That said, the fedora project doesn't need to completely go down the path that Apple Inc. has. As you said that in the document, Ubuntu seems to content to fill that hole. I think that it would be best left to them.
And you suggest we should stop trying?
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined 'fedoraLife'.
The Art Studio spin is currently on hold. Help needed.
Now admiringly, the tools and applications found in Art Studio are not all geared for ease-of-use like Ubuntu Studio or the iLife suite. I will
Since both Fedora and Ubuntu have access to the same upstream FOSS applications, there is no reason we can't produce something comparable.
Note: judging the screenshots, I find Ubuntu Studio looking horrendous and I hope we will not take the same path.
also admit that Art Studio was announced a while ago, but has yet to produce a ISO. They need help, you might consider helping them since you are on a similar frame of thought.
Hi, i think that the problem is not inside the product *(fedora) but inside some minds...there are some people inside the project fedora *(here in my country i can see it every day in some ambassadors and other members of the project), they just say : "Fedora is not for everyone cause we don't wanna be baby seeter of nuggets, or help then to play mp3 or install a proprietary driver etc". We need bring "Re-humanizer" the project if of course we want people that use ubuntu today.
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort
of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined 'fedoraLife'.
The Art Studio spin is currently on hold. Help needed.
Well, i wanna help with it, i have a lot of experience with computer graphics made with free software , how i can help? is there a link to the sub project? can i bring more people to help?
Best regards.
Razgriz.
hi RazGriz,
RazGriz wrote:
Hi, i think that the problem is not inside the product *(fedora) but inside some minds...there are some people inside the project fedora *(here in my country i can see it every day in some ambassadors and other members of the project), they just say : "Fedora is not for everyone cause we don't wanna be baby seeter of nuggets, or help then to play mp3 or install a proprietary driver etc". We need bring "Re-humanizer" the project if of course we want people that use ubuntu today.
First of all, you told me that you think the problem is not in the product, but instead the problem is in people's minds. Then you talked about how Fedora does not have mp3 patents and proprietary drivers. The omissions of that software are very much fundamental to Fedora's purpose and philosophy, and they are very much a part of what Fedora *IS*. We won't be adding that software anytime soon.
I really would prefer us to *not* talk about changing what Fedora is here. I would rather we talk about how we can best market Fedora as it is.
Having a truly free operating system really is not mutually exclusive with having a usable operating system. There is nothing about being free and doing the right thing that means life must be hard. People perceive it as being such. How can we change people's perceptions of Fedora's freedom so that they are less afraid of it?
Again, let's not change Fedora, please!
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined 'fedoraLife'.The Art Studio spin is currently on hold. Help needed.
Well, i wanna help with it, i have a lot of experience with computer graphics made with free software , how i can help? is there a link to the sub project? can i bring more people to help?
Duvelle provided a link earlier in the thread. I will re-post it:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio
I would love if you would be willing to help with this spin. I built a ks file for the spin a long time ago, it probably sucks and needs some modifications, but it is here:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/b/b7/Artwork_ArtTeamProjects_FedoraArtSt...
You will also need to add the following packages to it: * gimp-lqr-plugin * gimp-resynthesizer * ufraw-gimp * nip2 * GREYCstoration-gimp * mathmap
We could also use some help getting fonts packaged up for Fedora so they can be included in the Art Studio spin. There is a list of appropriately-licensed fonts only needing packagers here:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Triaging/Pipeline/WishList
You can absolutely bring more people to help - we need all the help we can get!
Thanks! ~m
Hi, i agree with you, i just said their words, we don't need add this things to the core, we need change the way that we use to deal with the common user =], they just don't know nothing about the real freedom of choice and most of then just don't wanna learn anything about it, but we still can take then showing our stuff whitout proprietary packages, cause the most important thing for this people is not software, but yes what it can do, if it can bring new and good computational experiences etc =] . I think that we already make it but only with the ambassadors, its time to the developers, artwork*(i am parte of this team inside my country) and marketing directly move their actions to this goal, fedora is not just a system of another free software to me, fedora is a way of life and i am very proud of it.
Fedora art-studio : I made an wall paper to start my engines, can i show it 4 you? If yes, where i can do this?
best regards
Razgriz
RazGriz wrote:
Hi, i agree with you, i just said their words, we don't need add this things to the core, we need change the way that we use to deal with the common user =], they just don't know nothing about the real freedom of choice and most of then just don't wanna learn anything about it, but we still can take then showing our stuff whitout proprietary packages, cause the most important thing for this people is not software, but yes what it can do, if it can bring new and good computational experiences etc =] . I think that we already make it but only with the ambassadors, its time to the developers, artwork*(i am parte of this team inside my country) and marketing directly move their actions to this goal, fedora is not just a system of another free software to me, fedora is a way of life and i am very proud of it.
Sweet, we are on the same page then. Awesome :)
One way I think is a good way to help change these perceptions is to make really cool stuff with Fedora and free tools, and then show it off. For example, I end up showing a lot of the graphics I've worked on to a lot of people, so I always make a point to let them know the graphics were made with Inkscape, Gimp, and/or Scribus. If we can make high-quality things using Fedora then people will see what Fedora can really do. And they will have solid proof, not just a perception or an idea based on what someone else told them.
Fedora art-studio : I made an wall paper to start my engines, can i show it 4 you? If yes, where i can do this?
Sure, fedora-art-list@redhat.com is a good place. I don't know if we are going to be theming the art studio any differently than main Fedora at this point though. The biggest concern right now is to get an ISO built.
If you are not so interested in building, you could help us pick out software to include in the Art Studio:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Packa...
Or you could help us find free fonts to include. The open font library is a good place to look. There's other places too like smashingmagazine.com usually has articles about new free fonts. Do note that to be included in Fedora the fonts must be free, so the fonts you propose to include must be under a license that is acceptable for inclusion in Fedora: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/LicensingGuidelines
Sometimes, though, if you can get in touch with the font creator, they may be willing to relicense the font for us. The best license I think to ask them to license the font under is under the Open Font License.
Add any acceptable fonts you find to: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Font_wishlist
You could also pick out open clip art we could include in the Spin: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Clipa...
Or templates, plugins, brushes, textures, palettes (colorlovers.com is a good site to go to find cool color palettes. You could easily build a set of gimp palette files from there)
~m
Hi Máirín Duffy
"I always make point you let them know the graphics were made with Inkscape, Gimp, and/or Scribus. "
+1
To say a little on that free tools had been used to develop a promocional work, or same of spreading of Fedora Linux is really important. Recently the Project Fedora Brazil launch the second edition of the Magazine Fedora Brazil (http://www.projetofedora.org/Revista), in which we use softwares Gimp, Inkscape, Scribus and OpenOffice. In some workshops that we are carrying through in the Brazil, we are presenting the magazine and, beyond saying which softwares exempts had been used in its confection, also we teach to install, and to use these softwares in Fedora 8 and 9 (Sulphur). In third edition of the magazine, we go to start presenting the first used tool in the production of the magazine, the Inkscape. In the next, will be presented the other graphical tools.
We understand that it is not only enough to create a site, one wiki, one spin, or exactly to only deliver in the hand of the user a copy of Fedora Linux and to say, good luck!
It is important that any created thing to divulge Fedora mainly and what is possible to produce with it, comes with an attached important differential: education and learning. Voice and Practical.
In this way, the final users, lose the fear to try Fedora Linux, and develop a curiosity for Fedora, uncontrollable. Becoming true hungry for Fedora.
"If we can make high-quality things using Fedora then people will see what Fedora can really of."
+1
If the FedoraArtStudio spin will be reanimated , we can promote it, still this year through some simultaneous events in the world. I and Razgriz am organizing scene that could well be used for this objective, that is the "FedoArt" event, here in the Brazil. If somebody to want more information can enter in contact with me.
"And they will have solid proof, not just perception or an idea based on what someone else told them." +1
The people need to see to believe. To speak or only to hear is not enough. Is necessary to unite practical and voice and. ; -)
Hugs
Erick Goes ArtTeam - Magazine Fedora Brazil Project Fedora Brazil
Sorry
The name of the event is " FedorArt".
Hugs
Erick Goes
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Erick Henrique br4in5t0rmm@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Máirín Duffy
"I always make point you let them know the graphics were made with Inkscape, Gimp, and/or Scribus. "
+1
To say a little on that free tools had been used to develop a promocional work, or same of spreading of Fedora Linux is really important. Recently the Project Fedora Brazil launch the second edition of the Magazine Fedora Brazil (http://www.projetofedora.org/Revista), in which we use softwares Gimp, Inkscape, Scribus and OpenOffice. In some workshops that we are carrying through in the Brazil, we are presenting the magazine and, beyond saying which softwares exempts had been used in its confection, also we teach to install, and to use these softwares in Fedora 8 and 9 (Sulphur). In third edition of the magazine, we go to start presenting the first used tool in the production of the magazine, the Inkscape. In the next, will be presented the other graphical tools.
We understand that it is not only enough to create a site, one wiki, one spin, or exactly to only deliver in the hand of the user a copy of Fedora Linux and to say, good luck!
It is important that any created thing to divulge Fedora mainly and what is possible to produce with it, comes with an attached important differential: education and learning. Voice and Practical.
In this way, the final users, lose the fear to try Fedora Linux, and develop a curiosity for Fedora, uncontrollable. Becoming true hungry for Fedora.
"If we can make high-quality things using Fedora then people will see what Fedora can really of."
+1
If the FedoraArtStudio spin will be reanimated , we can promote it, still this year through some simultaneous events in the world. I and Razgriz am organizing scene that could well be used for this objective, that is the "FedoArt" event, here in the Brazil. If somebody to want more information can enter in contact with me.
"And they will have solid proof, not just perception or an idea based on what someone else told them." +1
The people need to see to believe. To speak or only to hear is not enough. Is necessary to unite practical and voice and. ; -)
Hugs
Erick Goes ArtTeam - Magazine Fedora Brazil Project Fedora Brazil
-- http://www.projetofedora.org http://www.mytoons.com/br4in
DESIGN LIVRE
<<Imagining, drawing and livening up>>
Hi, well...here in my country people know me cause i am a document writer *(yes, i make documents about computer graphics with free software since 2005 =]), then i proposed to Erick take our work and make an little event with this stuff, i think that it can work =].
About F-art studio i will subscripe in this list right now but, i am not a member of the international artwork team, is there any problems with it ?
RazGriz wrote:
Hi, well...here in my country people know me cause i am a document writer *(yes, i make documents about computer graphics with free software since 2005 =]), then i proposed to Erick take our work and make an little event with this stuff, i think that it can work =].
About F-art studio i will subscripe in this list right now but, i am not a member of the international artwork team, is there any problems with it ?
Nope. The list is open to everyone and everyone is welcome to contribute.
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
RazGriz wrote:
About F-art studio i will subscripe in this list right now but, i am not a member of the international artwork team, is there any problems with it ?
Nope. The list is open to everyone and everyone is welcome to contribute.
As Rahul said, the list is open to everyone. But aren't you interested in being a member of the team? He have a lot of open taks and could use some more contributors :p
Hi, yes! Let me do it now
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
RazGriz wrote:
About F-art studio i will subscripe in this list right now but, i am not a member of the international artwork team, is there any problems with it ?
Nope. The list is open to everyone and everyone is welcome to contribute.
As Rahul said, the list is open to everyone. But aren't you interested in being a member of the team? He have a lot of open taks and could use some more contributors :p
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
-- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
Máirín Duffy wrote:
RazGriz wrote:
Hi, i think that the problem is not inside the product *(fedora) but inside some minds...there are some people inside the project fedora *(here in my country i can see it every day in some ambassadors and other members of the project), they just say : "Fedora is not for everyone cause we don't wanna be baby seeter of nuggets, or help then to play mp3 or install a proprietary driver etc". We need bring "Re-humanizer" the project if of course we want people that use ubuntu today.
Well, I for one cannot comprehend this: I personally know people who are Fedora Ambassadors but use Ubuntu on their personal computers (thats is, when not using Windows). Why? Why aren't they Ubuntu Ambassadors instead? But this is orthogonal to our topic.
First of all, you told me that you think the problem is not in the product, but instead the problem is in people's minds. Then you talked about how Fedora does not have mp3 patents and proprietary drivers. The omissions of that software are very much fundamental to Fedora's purpose and philosophy, and they are very much a part of what Fedora *IS*. We won't be adding that software anytime soon.
The sad fact is that *a lot* of people do not care about the *freedom* part. They just want something *gratis*. Here is a good read about this: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3733286
I really would prefer us to *not* talk about changing what Fedora is here. I would rather we talk about how we can best market Fedora as it is.
Having a truly free operating system really is not mutually exclusive with having a usable operating system. There is nothing about being free and doing the right thing that means life must be hard. People perceive it as being such. How can we change people's perceptions of Fedora's freedom so that they are less afraid of it?
But we also should understand there are some thing we cannot have (in the near future or ever). But those can be seen as niches.
Again, let's not change Fedora, please!
+1
Second, in an odd way of thinking.... This has already happened, sort of. The Fedora Art Studio spin does use that is found within the distribution to build something that you here have coined'fedoraLife'.
The Art Studio spin is currently on hold. Help needed.
Well, i wanna help with it, i have a lot of experience with computer graphics made with free software , how i can help? is there a link to the sub project? can i bring more people to help?
The most needed thing right now is packaging.
Duvelle provided a link earlier in the thread. I will re-post it:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio
Duvelle, Raz, Mo: let's take this on the Art list, where is the right place...
I would love if you would be willing to help with this spin. I built a ks file for the spin a long time ago, it probably sucks and needs some modifications, but it is here:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/b/b7/Artwork_ArtTeamProjects_FedoraArtSt...
You will also need to add the following packages to it: * gimp-lqr-plugin * gimp-resynthesizer * ufraw-gimp * nip2 * GREYCstoration-gimp * mathmap
We could also use some help getting fonts packaged up for Fedora so they can be included in the Art Studio spin. There is a list of appropriately-licensed fonts only needing packagers here:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Triaging/Pipeline/WishList
You can absolutely bring more people to help - we need all the help we can get!
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
br4in5t0rmm -
Duvelle Jones -
Markus McLaughlin -
Máirín Duffy -
Nicu Buculei -
Rahul Sundaram -
RazGriz