statistics about marketing list users?

[Jonas Karlsson]

Interested to know if there is any statistics about hwo you all are here 
on the marketing list. If the majority are developers or if there is a 
mix including people that do not write code.

historically speaking developers are good at creating new development 
models, cool features, new and innovative stuff and be the cowboys on 
the frontline. One thing that developers has been better and better at 
over the years is human interaction, this is still an area that it is 
good to have outsiders for (the grandma example) To not only drive the 
technical frontline but also the usability.

This is still the Linux world so I'd guess the majority are developers 
and the developers are the rulers, judges and executioners. They are the 
ones to write and merge the code, to decide which idéas go where. So my 
question about statistics is about that, to know if there are many 
people not writing code that actually have any influence about what goes 
where.

anyone more than me interested in this statistics?

//Jonas

[Nicu Buculei]

Jonas Karlsson wrote:
>  
>  This is still the Linux world so I'd guess the majority are developers 
>  and the developers are the rulers, judges and executioners. They are the 
>  ones to write and merge the code, to decide which idéas go where. So my 
>  question about statistics is about that, to know if there are many 
>  people not writing code that actually have any influence about what goes 
>  where. 
So the people writing documentation, translating, packaging, working on 
the website or creating graphics are developers or not? If someone do 
such stuff and write some code only once in a while, is he developer or not?

>  anyone more than me interested in this statistics? 
I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such stats.

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

[Jonas Karlsson]

Nicu Buculei wrote:
>  Jonas Karlsson wrote:
> >
> > This is still the Linux world so I'd guess the majority are 
> > developers and the developers are the rulers, judges and 
> > executioners. They are the ones to write and merge the code, to 
> > decide which idéas go where. So my question about statistics is about 
> > that, to know if there are many people not writing code that actually 
> > have any influence about what goes where.
>
>  So the people writing documentation, translating, packaging, working 
>  on the website or creating graphics are developers or not? If someone 
>  do such stuff and write some code only once in a while, is he 
>  developer or not?
>  
Good point, documentation and graphics are part of the development 
process, but they are human interaction designers and artists. But if 
that person also write "code" once in a while that person is a 
developer. A non developer never writes code, only do art, text, project 
managment and whatever there is thats not writing code.

> > anyone more than me interested in this statistics?
>
>  I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such 
>  stats.
>  
You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has been 
done!

//Jonas

[Nicu Buculei]

Jonas Karlsson wrote:
>  Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >
> > I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such 
> > stats.
> >
>  You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has been 
>  done! 
I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the 
reasons mentioned above).
Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors (which 
such counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away.

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

["G"]

Hi

>   Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors
> (which such
>  counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away. 
I agree to this point. A very valid point, If we are thinking in terms
of giving some credits/points to the contributors, it should include
everything. It should also include people who answer questions in the
forum. They still contribute

Cheers,
Balaji


On 10/22/08, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora(a)nicubunu.ro&gt; wrote:
> Jonas Karlsson wrote:
>
> > Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such
> stats.
> > >
> > >
> > You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has been
> done!
> >
>
>  I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the reasons
> mentioned above).
>   Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors
> (which such
>  counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away. 
>
>  --
>  nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
>  Cool Fedora wallpapers:
> http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
>  Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
>  my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
>
>  --
>  Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>

[Jonas Karlsson]

Nicu Buculei wrote:
>  Jonas Karlsson wrote:
> > Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >>
> >> I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such 
> >> stats.
> >>
> > You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has 
> > been done!
>
>  I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the 
>  reasons mentioned above).
>  Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors (which 
>  such counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away.
>  
Wow, that should never be the intention to call anyone second class 
(those hwo interpretrate it that way is seriously wrong..) that would be 
as saying that a president, investor or anyone of a company is second 
class... everyone is a contributor! look at the whole picture as a big 
company, the interesting part is about the decision making process as 
mentioned in the original mail.. how much influense do a non developer 
have in the decision making process!?!

//Jonas

[A. Mani]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora(a)nicubunu.ro&gt; wrote:
> > anyone more than me interested in this statistics?
>
>  I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such stats.
>  
If the raw data is available in some reasonable format (without
artificial aggregation), then I can help.


Best

A. Mani



-- 
A. Mani
Member, Cal. Math. Soc

[Nicu Buculei]

Mani A wrote:
>  On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Nicu Buculei
> <nicu_fedora(a)nicubunu.ro&gt; wrote:
> >> anyone more than me interested in this statistics?
> > I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such stats.
> >
>  
>  If the raw data is available in some reasonable format (without
>  artificial aggregation), then I can help. 
Well, getting the data is the hard part, I was questioning here...
- the list of subscribers is not something to give away easily, 
otherwise it will be a delight for spammers;
- supposedly you get a list, how you can tell which ones are 
"developers"? cross-check with the build system? with FAS? What if the 
developers submit the code only upstream or downstream?

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

[Mathieu Bridon]

>  Well, getting the data is the hard part, I was questioning here...
>  - the list of subscribers is not something to give away easily,
>  otherwise it will be a delight for spammers; 
What about EKG ?
http://www.michaeldehaan.net/?p=740

Here's an example of what it can do:
http://people.fedoraproject.org/~mdehaan/files/ekg/nov2007_oct_13_2008.html

>  - supposedly you get a list, how you can tell which ones are
>  "developers"? cross-check with the build system? with FAS? What if the
>  developers submit the code only upstream or downstream? 

----------

Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
French Fedora Ambassador

----------
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin

[Nicu Buculei]

Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
> > Well, getting the data is the hard part, I was questioning
> here...
> > - the list of subscribers is not something to give away easily,
> > otherwise it will be a delight for spammers;
>  
>  What about EKG ?
>  http://www.michaeldehaan.net/?p=740 
Well, of course there are ways to get data, I have access to the list of 
subscribers where I am moderator...

>  Here's an example of what it can do:
>  http://people.fedoraproject.org/~mdehaan/files/ekg/nov2007_oct_13_2008.html 
You can't make any assumption from domain names, for example we have 
here people with @rh addresses who are not developers and Red Hat 
employees using not @rh addresses for the community lists.

> > - supposedly you get a list, how you can tell which ones are
> > "developers"? cross-check with the build system? with FAS? What if the
> > developers submit the code only upstream or downstream? 

-- 
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

[Karsten Wade]

On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 13:58 +0200, Jonas Karlsson wrote:
>  >
>  Wow, that should never be the intention to call anyone second class 
>  (those hwo interpretrate it that way is seriously wrong..) that would be 
>  as saying that a president, investor or anyone of a company is second 
>  class... everyone is a contributor! look at the whole picture as a big 
>  company, the interesting part is about the decision making process as 
>  mentioned in the original mail.. how much influense do a non developer 
>  have in the decision making process!?! 
Actually quite a bit.

First, I contend that because someone may have mucked around with code,
that does *not* make them a developer.  Ask Paul Frields, current
Project Leader, former Project Board member.  He has mucked about with
code, but does not consider himself a developer.  I'm even more in that
camp.  I do *everything* in Fedora (practically) except develop code and
package software, the latter more from laziness and time factors.  (I'm
using myself as an example because I am a Board member and long time
leader in Docs, Marketing, etc.)

Also, in Fedora we tend to call people 'developers' who mainly package
code from other developers.  Many packagers are more system
administrators than developers, in their Fedora work or $dayjob.

Just clarifying that since it appears you are coming with a preset
conclusion about how Fedora is directed.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Community Gardener
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

[Karsten Wade]

On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:52 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:

>  I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for
> the 
>  reasons mentioned above). 
For those familiar with the Join page ...

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join

... the goal there has always been to move toward a wizard-like tool.
Ask people what interests them, what skills they have, and what labels
they put on themselves.  Capture that and store it with their user data.
In addition, we would have a way to add to the list of skills and
abilities.  This is for more practical purposes, such as, "I need to
find an expert in FooBaz," but it also gives us a good idea of the shape
of our community over time.

What we are missing is someone to do the actual work of making a wizard
and developing the infrastructure in to the account system.  Naturally,
data gathering would be optional; it is just another way people can
contribute information to Fedora.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Community Gardener
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41