11:29 p.m.
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Do we want to set up a website somewhere and point shoppers
to
Amazon.com or whatnot? (Gah, I'm thinking way too far
ahead again)
When I mentioned using Wal-mart or Amazon as vendors, that
is of course one way we could go. We will have that
automatically when we register with LSI. But the most profitable
way to go would be to sell any books ourselves. If a vendor
sells the book, they are going to add 15%, that is deducted
out of our profit, not from LSI.
Setting up a web page and taking orders ourselves would mean
we would make the most profit from our book.
...............
> Lightning Source would then send us a royalty check, I
> think it's every three months. We can just have
them send
> it to Max and he can disburse any funds.
>
You OK with this, Max? We could just plan for this, and it
would make me
feel a lot better if we got this problem out of the way
first ^_^
I agree. If Max could handle the money, we would just be
free to create books and not have to worry about money
responsibilities. I think any monies should go to Red Hat
anyway, even if we have to sneak it in a back door.
...............
Questions I have for you guys:
1. Does this sound reasonable? Does it seem viable that we
can sell 105
copies in a year? For those who will be in the book, or
other Fedora
contributors, or other Fedora fans, the $60 for the
first set of four
price seems a bit large. I'm not really sure.
I am not sure what you mean with the four different books.
Is that four books at once, or one at a time? Book sales
are almost impossible to predict. But I think that the first
book will sell. It may well pay for the other four.
One way to gage this: at this upcoming FUDCON, if we are going
to be passing out release forms, maybe we could take a legal
pad or pledge cards and ask people "would you like to pre-order
the book your picture will be in?" If the people whose pictures
and names are going to be in the book, won't commit to buying
it, we might as well quit right now.
Then again, we are not even bound, no pun intended, to producing
a bound book. We could go magazine style: folded pages, stapled
in the middle, the cheapest type of book. We could do any amount
of pages, 20, 40, 80, 160.
I wonder myself, and I think that after the first couple of books,
which we could do bound, sales might drop off even from the
most committed Fedoreans. So maybe anticipating that and going
to a zine would be better in the long run.
..............
(However I'm not sure who needs to register on
LSI's website if Max is
the one getting all the moneys.)
I definitely think it should be Max, or someone Red Hat.
LSI is going to like much better dealing with an established
corporation. All Max or whoever would have to do is go to
the Lightning Source web site, click on the "New Accounts"
button and fill out the form. Once we are registered, they
will assign us a "Guide" who will explain their system.
I think I understand the point that Paul Fields was trying
to make the other day: we are a FREE Software foundation
and we don't want to appear to be morphing into a commercial
book publish phenomenom. But if it seems to be a Red Hat
venture and are just a Beta version of it, well....
-- Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedoraproject.com
7:37 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 09:29:18PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> (However I'm not sure who needs to register on
> LSI's website if Max is
> the one getting all the moneys.)
I definitely think it should be Max, or someone Red Hat.
LSI is going to like much better dealing with an established
corporation. All Max or whoever would have to do is go to
the Lightning Source web site, click on the "New Accounts"
button and fill out the form. Once we are registered, they
will assign us a "Guide" who will explain their system.
I think I understand the point that Paul Fields was trying
to make the other day: we are a FREE Software foundation
and we don't want to appear to be morphing into a commercial
book publish phenomenom. But if it seems to be a Red Hat
venture and are just a Beta version of it, well....
It seems to me that Max has got a plan for how to make the finances
work out, whether that's by simply giving these as community gifts or
using any income to fund other Fedora efforts (or simply sustain the
publishing and gift-giving on the side). My only concern was that we
maintain transparency in any financial accounting. I'd love to write
an introduction for these.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
8:02 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It seems to me that Max has got a plan for how to make the
finances
work out, whether that's by simply giving these as
community gifts or
using any income to fund other Fedora efforts (or simply
sustain the
publishing and gift-giving on the side). My only concern
was that we
maintain transparency in any financial accounting. I'd
love to write
an introduction for these.
Way cool!
If we do this right and keep our books affordable so more
people can afford to buy them, we should pay our way and
make a few bucks. Once we do a couple of books, we can
gage interest and be able to adjust our costs and prices
accordingly.
One thing though. After FUDCON, when the pics start rolling
in, we are going to be using Open Source Software to
create the actual books. Most probably Scribus, Open Office,
The Gimp, and ?. Maybe we could approach some of these
projects and set-up an agreeable time for the most people,
then have someone from these projects give us a IRC Fedora
Classroom session on How-to use their stuff to create a
book.
-- w Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedoraproject.org
8:09 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
Doug Berry wrote:
One thing though. After FUDCON, when the pics start rolling
in, we are going to be using Open Source Software to
create the actual books. Most probably Scribus, Open Office,
The Gimp, and ?. Maybe we could approach some of these
projects and set-up an agreeable time for the most people,
then have someone from these projects give us a IRC Fedora
Classroom session on How-to use their stuff to create a
book.
I think we may have enough in-house experience for the task, so maybe
the class room can be held by Fedora "subject matter experts".
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
9:46 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora(a)nicubunu.ro> wrote
I think we may have enough in-house experience for the
task, so maybe the class room can be held by Fedora
"subject matter experts".
Exactly, Nicu, thanks for the help on that other thing too.
I could probably do a class on Scribus, since I have built
several books using it. Maybe we can get something worked
up.
-- Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedoraproject.org
3:55 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 09:29:18PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
When I mentioned using Wal-mart or Amazon as vendors, that
is of course one way we could go. We will have that
automatically when we register with LSI. But the most profitable
way to go would be to sell any books ourselves. If a vendor
sells the book, they are going to add 15%, that is deducted
out of our profit, not from LSI.
Setting up a web page and taking orders ourselves would mean
we would make the most profit from our book.
The only real reason I would want to
do this is if we decreased the
purchase price accordingly. I think the less hassle we put on us (have
distributors do the work for us), the better, and the extra bit in the
price pays for itself. From what I understand, we're setting the
wholesale price, not the retail price though.
That's not to say I'm completely against doing the shipping ourselves.
I am not sure what you mean with the four different books.
Is that four books at once, or one at a time? Book sales
are almost impossible to predict. But I think that the first
book will sell. It may well pay for the other four.
The first set would be four books at once, aligning with the four
foundations. We need a *lot* more marketing collateral on these and this
is just another way to push that during this release cycle.
One way to gage this: at this upcoming FUDCON, if we are going
to be passing out release forms, maybe we could take a legal
pad or pledge cards and ask people "would you like to pre-order
the book your picture will be in?" If the people whose pictures
and names are going to be in the book, won't commit to buying
it, we might as well quit right now.
Great idea! I'll put those on the release forms we make up.
Then again, we are not even bound, no pun intended, to producing
a bound book. We could go magazine style: folded pages, stapled
in the middle, the cheapest type of book. We could do any amount
of pages, 20, 40, 80, 160.
I was thinking that the idea would be that we have a nice, high-quality
physical book. Quite frankly, paperback would be the least I would go in
quality.
I wonder myself, and I think that after the first couple of books,
which we could do bound, sales might drop off even from the
most committed Fedoreans. So maybe anticipating that and going
to a zine would be better in the long run.
The idea for books past the four foundations set would be for specific
things -- like if the KDE SIG wanted us to produce one. The demand will
still be there -- just in selective groups. And as I mentioned in a
previous email, for the next 6 books (which I expect to at least take a
few years to get through all of those), we don't need to buy any more
ISBNs, because we will already have them, so that's a lot of the cost
out of the way.
I definitely think it should be Max, or someone Red Hat.
LSI is going to like much better dealing with an established
corporation. All Max or whoever would have to do is go to
the Lightning Source web site, click on the "New Accounts"
button and fill out the form. Once we are registered, they
will assign us a "Guide" who will explain their system.
I'll talk to Max about this sometime when we're both awake.
I think I understand the point that Paul Fields was trying
to make the other day: we are a FREE Software foundation
and we don't want to appear to be morphing into a commercial
book publish phenomenom. But if it seems to be a Red Hat
venture and are just a Beta version of it, well....
As the footers (seemingly ironically) say: we're sponsored by Red Hat,
but Red Hat is not responsible for what we do. ;) We're a community,
and this will be done by the community. It bothers me not that we should
have a Red Hatter register with LSI, since that makes sense, but
considering it a "Red Hat" venture seems... not correct ^_^
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
8:06 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:55:17PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 09:29:18PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> When I mentioned using Wal-mart or Amazon as vendors, that
> is of course one way we could go. We will have that
> automatically when we register with LSI. But the most profitable
> way to go would be to sell any books ourselves. If a vendor
> sells the book, they are going to add 15%, that is deducted
> out of our profit, not from LSI.
>
> Setting up a web page and taking orders ourselves would mean
> we would make the most profit from our book.
The only real reason I would want to do this is if we decreased the
purchase price accordingly. I think the less hassle we put on us (have
distributors do the work for us), the better, and the extra bit in the
price pays for itself. From what I understand, we're setting the
wholesale price, not the retail price though.
That's not to say I'm completely against doing the shipping ourselves.
Agreed about letting the distributors take up some of the work if it's
possible and not too cost prohibitive.
> I am not sure what you mean with the four different books.
> Is that four books at once, or one at a time? Book sales
> are almost impossible to predict. But I think that the first
> book will sell. It may well pay for the other four.
>
The first set would be four books at once, aligning with the four
foundations. We need a *lot* more marketing collateral on these and this
is just another way to push that during this release cycle.
Agreed again. It would be great to integrate Mo's graphics with the
cover design, the endpapers, and/or some part of the interior page
design:
http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/
> One way to gage this: at this upcoming FUDCON, if we are going
> to be passing out release forms, maybe we could take a legal
> pad or pledge cards and ask people "would you like to pre-order
> the book your picture will be in?" If the people whose pictures
> and names are going to be in the book, won't commit to buying
> it, we might as well quit right now.
>
Great idea! I'll put those on the release forms we make up.
> Then again, we are not even bound, no pun intended, to producing
> a bound book. We could go magazine style: folded pages, stapled
> in the middle, the cheapest type of book. We could do any amount
> of pages, 20, 40, 80, 160.
>
I was thinking that the idea would be that we have a nice, high-quality
physical book. Quite frankly, paperback would be the least I would go in
quality.
I *really* would prefer hardbacks. That's a much more lasting item,
whether we give as gifts or buy for ourselves. But again, if the cost
makes them so expensive no one will buy them, that would be a silly
requirement. I just hope they're not *that* costly.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
9:57 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:06:08PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:55:17PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
> The only real reason I would want to do this is if we decreased the
> purchase price accordingly. I think the less hassle we put on us (have
> distributors do the work for us), the better, and the extra bit in the
> price pays for itself. From what I understand, we're setting the
> wholesale price, not the retail price though.
>
> That's not to say I'm completely against doing the shipping ourselves.
Agreed about letting the distributors take up some of the work if it's
possible and not too cost prohibitive.
I don't think it is. The pricing I mentioned is for going through with
the distributors plan. That is, we're setting wholesale price at $15, so
not sure what it'll end up being retail (we can set a price, but who
knows if it'll stick).
Agreed again. It would be great to integrate Mo's graphics with
the
cover design, the endpapers, and/or some part of the interior page
design:
http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/
But of course :) I'm already thinking up designs in my head.
I *really* would prefer hardbacks. That's a much more lasting
item,
whether we give as gifts or buy for ourselves. But again, if the cost
makes them so expensive no one will buy them, that would be a silly
requirement. I just hope they're not *that* costly.
So do I, but I also would really prefer color pages. Apparently the two
options are not combinable at LSI... but if someone could call them and
confirm that that'd be cool.
My plan I emailed a day or two ago called for an 8.5" square paperback
with 80 full color pages.
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
10:44 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
2009/1/5 Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com>:
My plan I emailed a day or two ago called for an 8.5" square
paperback
with 80 full color pages.
If I was forced to choose, I'd take color pages over hardback... but
that seems a little odd that you can't do both.
-jef
10:47 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:44:18PM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
2009/1/5 Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com>:
> My plan I emailed a day or two ago called for an 8.5" square paperback
> with 80 full color pages.
If I was forced to choose, I'd take color pages over hardback... but
that seems a little odd that you can't do both.
It's what they offer. If someone wants to double check me, I was going
off of these PDFs -- http://ianweller.fedorapeople.org/lsi-docs/
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
11:19 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 10:47:24PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:44:18PM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> 2009/1/5 Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com>:
> > My plan I emailed a day or two ago called for an 8.5" square paperback
> > with 80 full color pages.
>
> If I was forced to choose, I'd take color pages over hardback... but
> that seems a little odd that you can't do both.
>
It's what they offer. If someone wants to double check me, I was going
off of these PDFs -- http://ianweller.fedorapeople.org/lsi-docs/
You may need to chmod 644 those docs -- I can't access them here.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
2:10 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 12:19:08PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 10:47:24PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
> >
> It's what they offer. If someone wants to double check me, I was going
> off of these PDFs -- http://ianweller.fedorapeople.org/lsi-docs/
You may need to chmod 644 those docs -- I can't access them here.
Oh. Thanks, done :)
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
2:52 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I *really* would prefer hardbacks. That's a much more
lasting item,
whether we give as gifts or buy for ourselves. But again,
if the cost
makes them so expensive no one will buy them, that would be
a silly
requirement. I just hope they're not *that* costly.
Hardbacks are more expensive to create, but it should not
be that much. One way we could go would be to sell the book
at our cost. Not add anything to the price, or at least
adjust the price down to compensation for the change in
cover.
I know Ian was planning on having the first books pay for
the rest of them, but maybe we can work something out.
-- Douglas Berry --
slasherzee(a)fedora.com
3:31 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Picture Book....
Doug Berry wrote:
Hardbacks are more expensive to create, but it should not
be that much. One way we could go would be to sell the book
at our cost. Not add anything to the price, or at least
adjust the price down to compensation for the change in
cover.
If we plan to sell about 100-200 pieces from a book, adding a few
dollars to the price will probably bring something under $1000 in total.
I don't think that is worth and better having the books as cheap as
possible (not adding anything) and make them as affordable ass possible,
so the number of purchasers may be larger. Spreading more Fedora love is
more important IMO.
I know Ian was planning on having the first books pay for
the rest of them, but maybe we can work something out.
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
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13 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Doug Berry -
Ian Weller -
Jef Spaleta -
Nicu Buculei -
Paul W. Frields