11:48 p.m.
The short: It looks like zikula isn't going to make it in time for us to
use it as a platform for FI for the F12 cycle. Therefore, proposal:
Temporarily use wordpress as a quick-and-dirty FI platform for this
release cycle only, designing the workflow for zikula so that we have a
constant motivation ("argh, this workflow isn't made for this
software!") to drive the zikula stuff forward and migrate to it ASAP.
The extra work this would create is not too bad.
* migrating articles from wp to zikula when zikula is ready (we'd choose
persistent URLs that work for both platforms)
* manual cross-linking of translations while using wp (one wp instance
per language)
* Design's design for FI wp would have to be readapted to fit zikula
when the time comes.
Rationale: We have people who know wp and can make it function fast; wp
was a runner-up during platform comparison (iirc), it's sufficiently
feature-limited for the things we want that we'll be dissuaded for using
it for way too long, and the number of published items that will go out
over FI in the next 6 months is manageable (even if we average one item
per day, that's 182.5 items; <200 is small enough to manually migrate if
absolutely need be).
Question: Can you spot any flaws in this idea? Rip it apart! If there
aren't any gaping holes by the weekend, I'll ask Infrastructure to get
us up a quick test instance to start with, so we can begin publishing
finished material being created right now, like Paul's Summit usb key doco.
Help needed: Ian is out of commission for a few weeks as the school year
starts, so we're looking for someone to step up to get the
infrastructure for an FI platform going. Any takers? (We'll know by this
weekend whether it's wordpress or not; if wordpress, it'll be easy.)
Context: see log below (slightly edited for relevance).
--Mel
<ianweller> mchua: i have some bad news about FI
<mchua> ianweller: just saw the email thread - not going to make it in
time for F12?
<ianweller> mchua: correct
<mchua> ianweller: I'm reading through and trying to understand what the
blockers are.
<mchua> ianweller: I've got my heart set on having an FI feed live for
Ambassadors to use for the F12 cycle by the time beta goes out
<mchua> ianweller: (...though I could be convinced of the impossibility
of this)
<ianweller> well, all the luck in the world to you :)
<mchua> ianweller: can you tell me why the following is a terrible idea:
<mchua> ianweller: wordpress as temporary F12 FI feed.
<ianweller> none of these reasons might be blockers, i'm playing devil's
advocate...
<ianweller> 1) may be difficult to import back into zikula.
<mchua> ianweller: quick, dirty, content goes up somewhere; it's tagged,
feeds automagically exist, we can pick URLs so that they'll be
persistent when we move to zikula.
* mchua nods
<ianweller> 2) less workflow management.
<mchua> Definitely less workflow management.
<ianweller> 3) dirty kludge for the time being that may accidentally
become permanent.
<mchua> 3) is what worries me.
<mchua> ...though I am willing to sit down every week and manually crank
through workflow, and sit down when zikula comes up and manually port
over every article, if need be.
<ianweller> that's all i can think of. :)
<mchua> (the latter will actually be 'write a python script that...')
<ianweller> python is like crack
<mchua> and if marketing and news folks are gritting their teeth through
using wordpress every week, zikula will get up in a freakin' hurry
<mchua> I want wordpress to be functional, but to be functional *with
pain* so that we don't get complacent and use it for F13 as well, basically.
<mchua> ianweller: but it's *happy* crack!
<ianweller> lol
<mchua> ianweller: i sampled everything in the medicine cabinet for
comparison.
9:26 p.m.
So....I could theoretically take on this task. By theoretically, I
mean that, "...get the infrastructure for an FI platform going..."
sounds fairly benign, but if it involves actual installation and
whatnot, I may not be your girl.
Feel free to ping me with more details offline... or on-list, in case
anyone else is interested in hearing about the nitty-gritty. Or I can
get on irc and discuss if that is better. :)
Cheers-
Robyn
On 8/12/09, Mel Chua <mel(a)redhat.com> wrote:
The short: It looks like zikula isn't going to make it in time
for us to
use it as a platform for FI for the F12 cycle. Therefore, proposal:
Temporarily use wordpress as a quick-and-dirty FI platform for this
release cycle only, designing the workflow for zikula so that we have a
constant motivation ("argh, this workflow isn't made for this
software!") to drive the zikula stuff forward and migrate to it ASAP.
The extra work this would create is not too bad.
* migrating articles from wp to zikula when zikula is ready (we'd choose
persistent URLs that work for both platforms)
* manual cross-linking of translations while using wp (one wp instance
per language)
* Design's design for FI wp would have to be readapted to fit zikula
when the time comes.
Rationale: We have people who know wp and can make it function fast; wp
was a runner-up during platform comparison (iirc), it's sufficiently
feature-limited for the things we want that we'll be dissuaded for using
it for way too long, and the number of published items that will go out
over FI in the next 6 months is manageable (even if we average one item
per day, that's 182.5 items; <200 is small enough to manually migrate if
absolutely need be).
Question: Can you spot any flaws in this idea? Rip it apart! If there
aren't any gaping holes by the weekend, I'll ask Infrastructure to get
us up a quick test instance to start with, so we can begin publishing
finished material being created right now, like Paul's Summit usb key doco.
Help needed: Ian is out of commission for a few weeks as the school year
starts, so we're looking for someone to step up to get the
infrastructure for an FI platform going. Any takers? (We'll know by this
weekend whether it's wordpress or not; if wordpress, it'll be easy.)
Context: see log below (slightly edited for relevance).
--Mel
<ianweller> mchua: i have some bad news about FI
<mchua> ianweller: just saw the email thread - not going to make it in
time for F12?
<ianweller> mchua: correct
<mchua> ianweller: I'm reading through and trying to understand what the
blockers are.
<mchua> ianweller: I've got my heart set on having an FI feed live for
Ambassadors to use for the F12 cycle by the time beta goes out
<mchua> ianweller: (...though I could be convinced of the impossibility
of this)
<ianweller> well, all the luck in the world to you :)
<mchua> ianweller: can you tell me why the following is a terrible idea:
<mchua> ianweller: wordpress as temporary F12 FI feed.
<ianweller> none of these reasons might be blockers, i'm playing devil's
advocate...
<ianweller> 1) may be difficult to import back into zikula.
<mchua> ianweller: quick, dirty, content goes up somewhere; it's tagged,
feeds automagically exist, we can pick URLs so that they'll be
persistent when we move to zikula.
* mchua nods
<ianweller> 2) less workflow management.
<mchua> Definitely less workflow management.
<ianweller> 3) dirty kludge for the time being that may accidentally
become permanent.
<mchua> 3) is what worries me.
<mchua> ...though I am willing to sit down every week and manually crank
through workflow, and sit down when zikula comes up and manually port
over every article, if need be.
<ianweller> that's all i can think of. :)
<mchua> (the latter will actually be 'write a python script that...')
<ianweller> python is like crack
<mchua> and if marketing and news folks are gritting their teeth through
using wordpress every week, zikula will get up in a freakin' hurry
<mchua> I want wordpress to be functional, but to be functional *with
pain* so that we don't get complacent and use it for F13 as well, basically.
<mchua> ianweller: but it's *happy* crack!
<ianweller> lol
<mchua> ianweller: i sampled everything in the medicine cabinet for
comparison.
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
9:48 p.m.
On 2009-08-13 12:48:14 AM, Mel Chua wrote:
The short: It looks like zikula isn't going to make it in time
for us to
use it as a platform for FI for the F12 cycle. Therefore, proposal:
Temporarily use wordpress as a quick-and-dirty FI platform for this
release cycle only, designing the workflow for zikula so that we have a
constant motivation ("argh, this workflow isn't made for this
software!") to drive the zikula stuff forward and migrate to it ASAP.
Are the
same things that were blocking zikula for the docs team blocking
zikula for marketing? Would it be that hard to get even an initial,
relatively blank zikula instance on servers that are not covered by the
Infrastructure change freeze and then work on polishing that?
I'm asking because this is almost making it seem like we have the
ability to easily setup and play with a wordpress instance while somehow
being unable to do this with zikula, which doesn't make all that much
sense to me (although I am totally unfamiliar with the specifics here) -
are there any specific things that are blocking marketing from working
on an initial zikula instance at the moment?
Thanks,
Ricky
4:22 p.m.
Are the same things that were blocking zikula for the docs team
blocking
zikula for marketing? Would it be that hard to get even an initial,
relatively blank zikula instance on servers that are not covered by the
Infrastructure change freeze and then work on polishing that?
Great question. It sounds like some of them are, at least legally:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/logistics/2009-August/000140.html
(in response to
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/logistics/2009-August/000138.html)
Technically, though, it should not be that hard. This is what needs to
be set up:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/logistics/2009-August/000141.html
(I don't think there's any real blocker on a test instance happening,
just that nobody's stepped up to do it yet.)
Robyn, is this something you'd be willing to work on? If Infra can get a
test instance installed, could you take some F11 marketing content (for
instance, the stuff already written up at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Talking_Points) and take an hour or
two to experiment with publishing those (copy-paste the content into
blank articles) through the system to see what the
interface/workflow/tags/feeds/etc. look like, to help give us a sense of
how this setup might feel like to contribute news to and consume news
from? (Or was it a different kind of help you wanted to offer?)
That should put us in good shape for a right-after-F12 zikula launch for
FI, but doesn't solve the temporary "until that launches in, say,
January, we need a place to put content and get feeds" problem which I
was hoping to tackle by getting a quick-and-dirty wp install up and
skinned so we can concentrate on content for F12 while further platform
work progresses in the background. That's why I'm temporarily looking
into the wordpress thing.
Does this make sense?
--Mel
6:24 p.m.
Well, that was quick. Ignore my last email - seems like I misspoke.
> Are the same things that were blocking zikula for the docs team
blocking
> zikula for marketing? Would it be that hard to get even an initial,
> relatively blank zikula instance on servers that are not covered by the
> Infrastructure change freeze and then work on polishing that?
After a conversation in #fedora-websites with ricky and poelcat, the
answer to "can we make a zikula-based FI go live for F12?" now seems
like this:
* we aren't sure...
* but there actually aren't any good reasons why it wouldn't work,
* so we should try it until we hit an actual blocker.
The legal things I thought were blocking zikula for us were actually
blocking zikula for docs, *not* marketing. All 3 packages we need for an
FI zikula instance (zikula, zikula-module-crpTag, and
zikula-module-News) are already packaged and legal-happy. And zikula is
extremely easy to set up. I just followed
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_Zikula_sandbox, and in 14
minutes I went from "which packages should I download?" to "logged into
working local instance with both modules installed."
So the next step is to get a test instance up. I'm working on this right
now and it should be pretty quick (I expect to have it up and running by
our Tuesday meeting, given that once I get through all the "join
Infrastructure!" stuff it should take no more than 14 minutes for me to
do this all again). The ticket is
https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/14 - again, I've got it,
but if someone gets to it faster than I do (probably super-late tonight;
if not, Monday) I have no objections to that. :)
After it's up, we're going to need a few testers to learn how to use
Zikula and try putting up a few articles (using old content from F11 as
dummy text) to see how the workflow goes. Robyn, if you'd like to run
forward with this once the test instance is set up, that would be
immensely awesome. I expect people to get confused the first time
through, so the real goal of the first test run will be to document our
confusion so we can figure out how to fix it. :)
(then again, it was way easier than I expected to install, so maybe
it'll be easy to learn as well! I couldn't figure it out, but I was only
able to spend 5 minutes trying, and didn't look for tutorials or anything.)
--Mel
7:09 p.m.
Sure, I'd be happy to help out with posting docs, testing things out,
reporting back, etc.
Question: are you planning on setting up pre-defined tags, buckets,
categories, etc. for the system? Or have these even been determined -
or waiting to be determined based on how the workflow feels once it's
set up? I'm happy to provide feedback there - if needed - I'm kind of
a document organization neat-freak (if only I could figure out how to
apply this OCD trait to my closet).
How will access be defined? Will there be more of a web-based "apply
for access / permissions" thing, or will it be tied to my
fedoraproject id? And if it is the latter, is there a specific group I
should apply to to get the ball rolling?
-r
On 8/14/09, Mel Chua <mel(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Well, that was quick. Ignore my last email - seems like I misspoke.
>> Are the same things that were blocking zikula for the docs team blocking
>> zikula for marketing? Would it be that hard to get even an initial,
>> relatively blank zikula instance on servers that are not covered by the
>> Infrastructure change freeze and then work on polishing that?
After a conversation in #fedora-websites with ricky and poelcat, the
answer to "can we make a zikula-based FI go live for F12?" now seems
like this:
* we aren't sure...
* but there actually aren't any good reasons why it wouldn't work,
* so we should try it until we hit an actual blocker.
The legal things I thought were blocking zikula for us were actually
blocking zikula for docs, *not* marketing. All 3 packages we need for an
FI zikula instance (zikula, zikula-module-crpTag, and
zikula-module-News) are already packaged and legal-happy. And zikula is
extremely easy to set up. I just followed
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_Zikula_sandbox, and in 14
minutes I went from "which packages should I download?" to "logged into
working local instance with both modules installed."
So the next step is to get a test instance up. I'm working on this right
now and it should be pretty quick (I expect to have it up and running by
our Tuesday meeting, given that once I get through all the "join
Infrastructure!" stuff it should take no more than 14 minutes for me to
do this all again). The ticket is
https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/14 - again, I've got it,
but if someone gets to it faster than I do (probably super-late tonight;
if not, Monday) I have no objections to that. :)
After it's up, we're going to need a few testers to learn how to use
Zikula and try putting up a few articles (using old content from F11 as
dummy text) to see how the workflow goes. Robyn, if you'd like to run
forward with this once the test instance is set up, that would be
immensely awesome. I expect people to get confused the first time
through, so the real goal of the first test run will be to document our
confusion so we can figure out how to fix it. :)
(then again, it was way easier than I expected to install, so maybe
it'll be easy to learn as well! I couldn't figure it out, but I was only
able to spend 5 minutes trying, and didn't look for tutorials or anything.)
--Mel
8:19 p.m.
Sure, I'd be happy to help out with posting docs, testing things
out,
reporting back, etc.
Thanks! Your questions are great - we don't have firm answers for them,
but here's what I think they should be (as usual, whoever does the work
gets the final say ;) so if you have good ideas, let's do them!
Question: are you planning on setting up pre-defined tags, buckets,
categories, etc. for the system?
Yes. There will definitely be categories, and probably tags. There's a
draft list up at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Content_categories but
this is by no means the final say.
Or have these even been determined -
or waiting to be determined based on how the workflow feels once it's
set up?
Mostly the latter. We need to talk with News (pcalarco) on what they'd
like for workflow, but ultimately someone just has to Decide and Start
Doing Stuff. Is that something you'd be interested in?
As long as the front-end categories/tags/URLs stay the same, we can
start with a draft workflow and then adjust as needed, depending on how
it feels once it's set up.
I'm happy to provide feedback there - if needed
Oh, it's needed!
How will access be defined? Will there be more of a web-based
"apply
for access / permissions" thing, or will it be tied to my
fedoraproject id? And if it is the latter, is there a specific group I
should apply to to get the ball rolling?
Ideally, it'll be tied to FAS. I'm not sure how much work that will be
to hook up, though - so we'll start with just "create a web-based
account" until that looks like it isn't going to work much longer.
(Which should be pretty soon; my personal panic-meter on this is
probably going to kick in around a dozen test users or so.)
Maybe not the answers you were looking for, but that's my best shot at
it at the moment. :)
--Mel
8:42 p.m.
On 2009-08-14 09:19:12 PM, Mel Chua wrote:
> How will access be defined? Will there be more of a web-based
"apply
> for access / permissions" thing, or will it be tied to my
> fedoraproject id? And if it is the latter, is there a specific group I
> should apply to to get the ball rolling?
Ideally, it'll be tied to FAS. I'm not sure how much work that will be
to hook up, though - so we'll start with just "create a web-based
account" until that looks like it isn't going to work much longer.
(Which should be pretty soon; my personal panic-meter on this is
probably going to kick in around a dozen test users or so.)
I think docs has
already done a good amount of work for FAS integration,
so definitely ask them about that :-) Hopefully this kind of thing
won't need particularly fine grained permissions though - I don't know
how much of that is supported by the FAS plugin that the docs team had.
I'd definitely like to see the code for that somewhere though :-)
Thanks,
Ricky
8:45 p.m.
On 2009-08-14 09:42:21 PM, Ricky Zhou wrote:
I'd definitely like to see the code for that somewhere though :-)
Oops, and just a few seconds later, I discover
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-zikula/ with its git repo at
git://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-zikula.git. And if that wasn't
enough, it's already in the infrastructure repo, so you can just yum
install zikula-module-fedora-fasauth when you set it up on a publictest
machine.
Thanks,
Ricky
10:02 a.m.
> I'd definitely like to see the code for that somewhere
though :-)
Oops, and just a few seconds later, I discover
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-zikula/ with its git repo at
git://git.fedorahosted.org/git/fedora-zikula.git. And if that wasn't
enough, it's already in the infrastructure repo, so you can just yum
install zikula-module-fedora-fasauth when you set it up on a publictest
machine.
I am responsible for zikula-fasauth (yes, I'm lurking on most Fedora lists).
FasAuth does the following:
When you attempt to login it:
1. Checks you are a valid user in FAS
2. Checks that you are a member of a select few groups (CRA,
cms-admin I think)
3. If you've been already, you get logged in
4. If you haven't been, you get a zikula mirror-account created
5. From here you are logged in
Your password and username will always be controlled by FAS, and you have a
shell account on the Zikula system for Zikula's access control and basic
functionality. Access control and permissioning is handled by the Zikula
system (we agreed with docs this would be better than adding loads of groups
to FAS).
I also recommend having a fallback vanilla Zikula admin account on the
instance, so that should for any reason FAS go down (maintenance, error etc)
we can still admin the website.
Simon
10:38 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Mel Chua<mel(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Sure, I'd be happy to help out with posting docs, testing
things out,
> reporting back, etc.
Thanks! Your questions are great - we don't have firm answers for them, but
here's what I think they should be (as usual, whoever does the work gets the
final say ;) so if you have good ideas, let's do them!
> Question: are you planning on setting up pre-defined tags, buckets,
> categories, etc. for the system?
Yes. There will definitely be categories, and probably tags. There's a draft
list up at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Content_categories
but this is by no means the final say.
> Or have these even been determined -
> or waiting to be determined based on how the workflow feels once it's
> set up?
Mostly the latter. We need to talk with News (pcalarco) on what they'd like
for workflow, but ultimately someone just has to Decide and Start Doing
Stuff. Is that something you'd be interested in?
Yes. Let me know when you get something up, I will get familiarized
and then we can get something going for people to start throwing darts
at :)
As long as the front-end categories/tags/URLs stay the same, we can start
with a draft workflow and then adjust as needed, depending on how it feels
once it's set up.
> I'm happy to provide feedback there - if needed
Oh, it's needed!
> How will access be defined? Will there be more of a web-based "apply
> for access / permissions" thing, or will it be tied to my
> fedoraproject id? And if it is the latter, is there a specific group I
> should apply to to get the ball rolling?
Ideally, it'll be tied to FAS. I'm not sure how much work that will be to
hook up, though - so we'll start with just "create a web-based account"
until that looks like it isn't going to work much longer. (Which should be
pretty soon; my personal panic-meter on this is probably going to kick in
around a dozen test users or so.)
Maybe not the answers you were looking for, but that's my best shot at it at
the moment. :)
--Mel
5:15 p.m.
Yes. Let me know when you get something up, I will get familiarized
and then we can get something going for people to start throwing darts
at :)
It's up - http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula - have fun!
I did not install the fedora-zikula or zikula-fasauth packages yet. I
don't have bandwidth to get to those two things this week, actually, so
if some Infrastructure-minded person would like to take on a relatively
smallish pair of tasks, feel free to go for it. :)
--Mel
6:45 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Mel Chua<mel(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Yes. Let me know when you get something up, I will get
familiarized
> and then we can get something going for people to start throwing darts
> at :)
It's up - http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula - have fun!
I registered, but the mail with my password was never received.. :)
I did not install the fedora-zikula or zikula-fasauth packages yet. I don't
have bandwidth to get to those two things this week, actually, so if some
Infrastructure-minded person would like to take on a relatively smallish
pair of tasks, feel free to go for it. :)
--Mel
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
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https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
6:52 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Mel Chua<mel(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
>> Yes. Let me know when you get something up, I will get familiarized
>> and then we can get something going for people to start throwing
darts
>> at :)
>
> It's up - http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula - have fun!
I registered, but the mail with my password was never received.. :)
You'll probably find that publictest machines don't have a mailserver
installed. An admin will need to set you up with a default password. Also,
registration shouldn't be necessary with the fasauth module I built - but it
does need to be installed.
Simon
7:39 p.m.
> I registered, but the mail with my password was never received..
:)
You'll probably find that publictest machines don't have a mailserver
installed. An admin will need to set you up with a default password. Also,
registration shouldn't be necessary with the fasauth module I built - but it
does need to be installed.
Robyn's password has been emailed to her. I'm installing the fasauth
module now. (Well, trying. Popping into #fedora-admin once again...)
--Mel
7:57 p.m.
So..... I'm in, but, anything that I'm entering in is not being saved.
I updated my profile info with my full name, etc and submitted it, was
returned a happy green box saying "Done! Personal info saved" - but
nothing actually saved.
Same for news article - did an action - submit article, clicked the
green checkbox, but its not passing through, although it says "done! -
news article created."
On 8/17/09, Mel Chua <mel(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>> I registered, but the mail with my password was never
received.. :)
>
> You'll probably find that publictest machines don't have a mailserver
> installed. An admin will need to set you up with a default password.
> Also,
> registration shouldn't be necessary with the fasauth module I built - but
> it
> does need to be installed.
Robyn's password has been emailed to her. I'm installing the fasauth
module now. (Well, trying. Popping into #fedora-admin once again...)
--Mel
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12:13 a.m.
New subject: Reminder: 20:00 UTC, #fedora-meeting
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings
We've got some big stuff coming up:
* Fedora Insight is up and running as a test platform (now with FAS auth
thanks to Simon and the beginnings of a workflow thanks to Robyn!)
* Alpha Readiness meeting is tomorrow (Wednesday).
* The Alpha release announcement is coming out, thanks to Steven for
running with this!
See you all tomorrow!
--Mel --> sleep
10:17 p.m.
New subject: AuthFAS Zikula Patch
One patch file. Warning: developed entirely without testing, but in theory
it should work...
Simon
5358
days inactive
5363
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
17 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Mel Chua -
Ricky Zhou -
Robyn Bergeron -
Simon Birtwistle