11:58 a.m.
I've seen one or two comments popping up on some news sites in
response to the "Fedora Remix" proposal that indicate people
mistakenly believe this term originated with Canonical and/or Ubuntu.
That is not the case. During the run-up to release of Fedora 7, back
in the spring and summer of 2007, we were already talking about the
remix concept being a part of Fedora. In fact, those tools were a
major release feature.
I wanted to put this information out in B&W for the Marketing team so
you can discuss how we can best put the idea forward. I would rather
this be more of a pro-active move than having to find misinformation
and step on it.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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12:29 p.m.
Paul, et. al,
I would like to confirm Paul's comments regarding the etymology remix.
I am the person who first came up with it and used it, and if I remember
correctly that was in a taping session for some Red Hat promotional
material (maybe red hat magazine) in the FUDCon at the the run up to
F7. Actually, I had been using it for some time before that but that
was the first time we officially all kind of agreed that we liked it and
adopted it.
I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I was
working a lot with creative commons at the time.
Max Spevack can confirm.
Jack
Paul W. Frields wrote:
I've seen one or two comments popping up on some news sites in
response to the "Fedora Remix" proposal that indicate people
mistakenly believe this term originated with Canonical and/or Ubuntu.
That is not the case. During the run-up to release of Fedora 7, back
in the spring and summer of 2007, we were already talking about the
remix concept being a part of Fedora. In fact, those tools were a
major release feature.
I wanted to put this information out in B&W for the Marketing team so
you can discuss how we can best put the idea forward. I would rather
this be more of a pro-active move than having to find misinformation
and step on it.
1:09 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <jaa(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I
was working a lot with creative commons at the time.
Max Spevack can confirm.
Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it
sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work
for F7 that used the terminology?
Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new
trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree
of thought dating back to F7?
-jef
1:35 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new
trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree
of thought dating back to F7?
Replying to myself.
Can we use these previous items as a jumping off point to talk about
the updated trademark policy?
First Max's message about LiveCDs in the F7 time frame.
http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/
Lot's of references to "remixing" tools in there.
Is the functionality that Max is talking about right there
specifically outline the reasoning to update the trademark policy?
Can we get Greg to re-voice a second video in this series?
http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/
Last Image in Video: "Fedora 7 Remixed Remixable"
Greg in the video: "Take Fedora and turn it into any distro they need
it to be...with trivial amount of work"
Here's how I'd say it:
Hey guys, sorry it took us a year..but we've re-written our trademark
policy to align with the remixing tools and ideas we introduced back
in Fedora 7.
Sure we talked a lot of about the power of remixing:
http://www.redhat.com/v/magazine/ogg/070601_fedora.ogg
We even made an uncharacterictly creative attempt at it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bs8vZgTURw
And yes, we tried to describe the tools:
http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/
But we missed something...our trademark policy. Technology
innovations moves stupefyingly fast around here, and our trademark
policy wasn't keeping up.
What we said for Fedora 7 is still true, we've got the remixing tools
in place so anyone, anywhere can take Fedora and make a version that
works best for them with a trivial amount of work.
What the new trademark policy does is make it easier for people who
want to, to associate their remixes with our project. From a
technical point of view, its a minor thing. But from a community
point of view it might mean a lot, with the trademark change we've
made the project more inclusive and given a way for different remix
efforts a way to associated with each other as group of peer efforts
and as part of a larger Fedora project community. Because the people
behind these remixes are Fedora contributors. Hopefully the trademark
policy changes make it as trivial for them to say that, as the
remixing tools we introduced in F7 make it as trivial for them to be.
-jef
7:36 a.m.
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Replying to myself.
Can we use these previous items as a jumping off point to talk about
the updated trademark policy?
First Max's message about LiveCDs in the F7 time frame.
http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/
Lot's of references to "remixing" tools in there.
Is the functionality that Max is talking about right there
specifically outline the reasoning to update the trademark policy?
I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM
article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of
establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used.
And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude,
Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :)
--Max
8:12 a.m.
Hi,
I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM
article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of
establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used.
And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude,
Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :)
I'm not sure I understood very well, but is this thread about knowing who
between Ubuntu and Fedora is the first one who used the term "remix" ?
If it's not, maybe I should read it more carefully, but if it is, how
could that matter ? o_O
Regards,
----------
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
French Fedora Ambassador
----------
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
9:43 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 03:12:35PM +0200, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
Hi,
> I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM
> article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of
> establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used.
>
> And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude,
> Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :)
I'm not sure I understood very well, but is this thread about knowing who
between Ubuntu and Fedora is the first one who used the term "remix" ?
If it's not, maybe I should read it more carefully, but if it is, how
could that matter ? o_O
The term remix has been around for a long time before any Linux
distribution started using it. It started with the corporate music
business, and progressed down to professional and then indie DJ's, and
now to any kid with a few minutes of spare time and an audio
application that lets them do mashups. Heck, some artists give their
raw tracks away and ask their fans to produce them. (I really dig the
Nine Inch Nails fans' "The Limitless Potential" album for some cool
remixes of "Year Zero" tracks.)
That's a lot like the overall progress of our culture, moving the
power and concepts of building on pre-existing science and art from
the hands of the few to the hands of the many.
Yesterday, I was looking through some comments responding to press
about some of the Fedora remixes that are starting to trickle out.
And there I saw a couple of people -- not a lot, just a couple --
floating the idea that somehow Fedora was copying other distributions'
remix concepts. And honestly, it *did* bother me, because we have
been working on this since 2006, and even made a big deal about it in
the run-up to Fedora 7 in May 2007. The entire reason we were in the
driver's seat on making remixable distributions -- as with so many
other features -- is that we do all our work in the open, freely
distributable and modifiable by everyone. Developing these remix
tools freely and openly is how we've always made Fedora, and we're
going to continue to embrace that idea.
I'm not saying that no one else should do it -- on the contrary!
Wouldn't that be hypocritical, to encourage remixes and then say that
no one else should do the same? What I *am* trying to say is that the
whole concept behind the remix culture is that you *give credit* where
it's due. When I remix Nine Inch Nails, I don't claim to have written
the music, I just take the tracks that Trent, et al. created, and put
them together differently. So it strikes me as a little bit "Johnny
come lately" when I see other people not only claiming to have
invented the concept but somehow intimating that it should be
exclusive.
In this age of rumor being taken for fact, the loudest voice
overpowering the written record, and hyperlinks replacing evidence,
it's important that we keep history and reality in mind.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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1:45 p.m.
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <jaa(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I
> was working a lot with creative commons at the time.
>
> Max Spevack can confirm.
Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it
sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work
for F7 that used the terminology?
We don't communicate it at all. We just take the term and swing it
around like a 9-iron, and dare someone to take it away from us. And when
they do try, we have an aggressive communications plan that says "Fedora:
Remixing since 2006. Booyah."
Oh, and also, we put "Fedora Remix" in the boot sequence of every OLPC
system on earth. Scoreboard.
--g
2:31 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <jaa(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I
>> was working a lot with creative commons at the time.
>>
>> Max Spevack can confirm.
>
> Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it
> sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work
> for F7 that used the terminology?
We don't communicate it at all. We just take the term and swing it around
like a 9-iron, and dare someone to take it away from us. And when they do
try, we have an aggressive communications plan that says "Fedora: Remixing
since 2006. Booyah."
I think we are more likely to swing around a putter, and everyone is
telling us "Use a frickin' 9 iron you geek!" If there is one thing
that Red Hat has been extremely well at doing for over 15 years... its
been lack of communication about things we do. We either concentrate
on something that only a few people care about (who Red Hat then hires
on as they are the ones driving and owrking on it)... or look around
in utter astonishment when someone else comes out with something and
we say things like "compiling for the i586 is a waste of time, we did
some work on it but it made things worse. Hey listen to us.. you
aren't getting anything better out of that binary.. look sure we
didn't publish it.. we were busy working on cool-geeky-toyX."
Oh and we usually have some guy dance around and remind us we all look
like geeks waving around a putter when we were supposed to be swinging
a 9 iron. [Bonus points when we say "Oh I thought this was a wood."]
I agree with GDK on this one. So we were going to use it in 2007 or
2006 or 1998 when some people thought of Mandrake as a remix..
"Oh they are using it cool. Well great minds think a like." and move on
moments.
I am off to find some coffee before my eyes explode out of my head.
Oh, and also, we put "Fedora Remix" in the boot sequence of
every OLPC
system on earth. Scoreboard.
--g
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in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"
11:14 a.m.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul <jaa(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I
> was working a lot with creative commons at the time.
>
> Max Spevack can confirm.
Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it
sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work
for F7 that used the terminology?
Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new
trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree
of thought dating back to F7?
There are pages with chronological views on the artwork of Fedora,
complete with screenshots and related things. Maybe we should do the
same for remixing. Try to contact all the people who have done
remixes of some kind, and get a chronological view on this, starting
with the OLPC and moving on to the CC remix, etc... Perhaps even with
statements from companies that do internal mixing.
Then, we need to make sure it gets some viewage, though I'm not sure
about how to go about that. This will at least give us a serious
talking point about Fedora and remixing without having to be rude to
an obnoxious Ubuntu fan who wants to claim that Canonical made the
phrase up.
-Yaakov
5678
days inactive
5682
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Jack Aboutboul -
Jef Spaleta -
Larry Cafiero -
Mathieu Bridon -
Max Spevack -
Paul W. Frields -
Stephen John Smoogen -
Yaakov Nemoy