6:41 a.m.
Hi,
yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
produce for F21.
We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
* the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
* having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
* having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
* creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as
we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable
option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not
much has changed there in the last two years :/
8:43 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jiri Eischmann" <eischmann(a)redhat.com>
To: marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 6:41:02 PM
Subject: F21 media
<snipped>
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
* the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
* having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
* having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
* creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Supported install media for Server product has been discussed a lot in
Server team and we decided to support two types of installation media:
Network and Local [1].
Kind regards,
Tuan
[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Technical_Specification#Supported_A...
9 p.m.
Are we looking at different art work for each product or just different wording on each of
the dvd's?
- Chris Roberts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Truong Anh. Tuan" <tuanta(a)iwayvietnam.com>
To: "Fedora Marketing team" <marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 9:43:31 PM
Subject: Re: F21 media
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jiri Eischmann" <eischmann(a)redhat.com>
To: marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 6:41:02 PM
Subject: F21 media
<snipped>
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
* the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
* having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
* having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
* creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Supported install media for Server product has been discussed a lot in
Server team and we decided to support two types of installation media:
Network and Local [1].
Kind regards,
Tuan
[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Technical_Specification#Supported_A...
--
marketing mailing list
marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
8:26 a.m.
On 09/03/2014 06:41 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi,
yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
produce for F21.
We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
* the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
* having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
* having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
* creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Thanks. I'm assuming we're actually talking about physical media to hand
out at events?
Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments
where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient
bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle
creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user
groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs
people to the downloads/cloud images.
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much
as
we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable
option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not
much has changed there in the last two years :/
Agreed there.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/
9:22 a.m.
<Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments
<where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient
<bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle
<creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
<I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user
<groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs
<people to the downloads/cloud images.
+1 to this
if we need some new artwork for the top of the dvd or the case and we can create a ticket
with design and get something worked out.
- Chris Roberts
9:33 a.m.
Joe Brockmeier píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 08:26 -0500:
On 09/03/2014 06:41 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> Hi,
> yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
> produce for F21.
> We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
> the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
> In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
> very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
> the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
> offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
> that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
> Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
> not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
> Fedora.Next products.
>
> Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
> * the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
> * having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
> * having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
> * creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
> many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
>
> Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
> group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
> this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Thanks. I'm assuming we're actually talking about physical media to hand
out at events?
Yes.
Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most
environments
where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient
bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle
creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product
right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a
consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD
recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
working group to ask if this distribution channel is important to them.
We should also note that the decision would have its price. Producing
1000 Server DVDs only for EMEA would cost around $800.
I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for
events/user
groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs
people to the downloads/cloud images.
Getting started cards is a great idea. Generally, I'd love to see more
fliers given away at events because right now all our swag is just about
branding, it doesn't carry any information.
Jiri
11:32 a.m.
On 09/04/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Roberts wrote:
<Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most
environments
<where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient
<bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle
<creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
<I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user
<groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs
<people to the downloads/cloud images.
Heya,
I respect all views here, but I am afraid we should not be limiting our
users to workstation only by doing this.
Any new comer or some one who have limitations to download images should
not by default directing to workstation only.
This is first time we are going with fedora.next and with product wise
concept, so is it not good to have them all available as media for users
to try out without going through the hassle of downloading and creating
CDs?
Just a thought.
Thanks,
Amita
+1 to this
if we need some new artwork for the top of the dvd or the case and we can create a ticket
with design and get something worked out.
- Chris Roberts
11:38 a.m.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud
product
right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a
consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD
recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the
workstation media?
In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to the
audience.
If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation
media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so interesting, and
maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year, most
people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just
collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a Fedora
server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question is
whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince
people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got it
already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB stick
or DVD.)
If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to make
and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD available
for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate
anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly
interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw.
Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can
net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would probably
satisfy.
> groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for
server/cloud that directs
> people to the downloads/cloud images.
Getting started cards is a great idea. Generally, I'd love to see more
fliers given away at events because right now all our swag is just about
branding, it doesn't carry any information.
I think this is great too. I'd like to see these use traceable URLs, so we
can get a measurable sense of how much people are actually using them vs.
just picking them up and recycling them when they get home from the event.
Ideally, this would tie back to the individual event, even. (Maybe QR code +
link stickers, so the whole thing doesn't need reprinted?) I know this is
additional expense, but I also think it's worth it.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
11:39 a.m.
On Thursday, September 4, 2014, Amita Sharma <amsharma(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 09/04/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Roberts wrote:
> <Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments
> <where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient
> <bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle
> <creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
>
> <I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user
> <groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that
directs
> <people to the downloads/cloud images.
>
Heya,
I respect all views here, but I am afraid we should not be limiting our
users to workstation only by doing this.
Any new comer or some one who have limitations to download images should
not by default directing to workstation only.
This is first time we are going with fedora.next and with product wise
concept, so is it not good to have them all available as media for users to
try out without going through the hassle of downloading and creating CDs?
Just a thought.
Thanks,
Amita
+1 to this i fully agree with amita we should not limit people to any
flavour otherwise we are not supporting the spread of fedora.
--
Regards,
Dilip Khanolkar,
+919833018122.
12:14 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 10:09:01PM +0530, beta tester wrote:
+1 to this i fully agree with amita we should not limit people to
any
flavour otherwise we are not supporting the spread of fedora.
This isn't a question of limiting people.
It's a question of what we spend our limited money on to actively promote,
as well as our limited time and availability, and the limited time in which
we can get a given audience to listen to us.
That doesn't mean that we _have_ to focus that promotion, but the basic
strategy here is that if we do, we can get _really good returns_ in a
particular area, rather than poor returns across the board. Then, in the
long run, that can spill out to actual broader success across the board.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
12:14 p.m.
Matthew Miller píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 12:38 -0400:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product
> right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a
> consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD
> recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the
workstation media?
This sounds like an interesting idea to me. I have no idea how it would
behave and if it'd be usable running Fedora live, but it's worth trying.
In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to
the
audience.
If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation
media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so interesting, and
maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year, most
people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just
collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a Fedora
server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question is
whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince
people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got it
already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB stick
or DVD.)
If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to make
and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD available
for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate
anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly
interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw.
Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can
net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would probably
satisfy.
Ok, let me put the ideas in the cost perspective:
In EMEA if we order 5000 DVDs of one kind (same content, same graphics)
we pay ~ $1750.
If we order 1000 DVDs then the price is ~$800.
So if we for example order 5 different DVDs, 1000 pieces each, the total
price will be: $4000.
That's a significant difference considering it's just one region. Yes,
it'd be great to have different media for different audiences, but is it
really worth the money? Are DVDs as installation media still so
important?
It's a dying technology. Yes, we should continue produce them for the
time being because it's the only economically viable physical media, but
I think we should keep the selection rather simple and don't invest too
much into it.
I don't think it's a big deal if something is not shipped on DVDs. It's
just one of distribution channels, one that is less and less important.
Jiri
12:20 p.m.
On 4 September 2014 11:14, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Matthew Miller píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 12:38 -0400:
> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> > That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product
> > right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a
> > consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a
DVD
> > recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
>
> Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the
> workstation media?
This sounds like an interesting idea to me. I have no idea how it would
behave and if it'd be usable running Fedora live, but it's worth trying.
> In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to the
> audience.
>
> If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation
> media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
>
> For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so interesting,
and
> maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year,
most
> people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just
> collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a
Fedora
> server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question is
> whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince
> people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got it
> already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB
stick
> or DVD.)
>
> If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to
make
> and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD
available
> for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate
> anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly
> interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw.
> Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can
> net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would probably
> satisfy.
Ok, let me put the ideas in the cost perspective:
In EMEA if we order 5000 DVDs of one kind (same content, same graphics)
we pay ~ $1750.
If we order 1000 DVDs then the price is ~$800.
So if we for example order 5 different DVDs, 1000 pieces each, the total
price will be: $4000.
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
helping someone else' system?
While DVD's are useful in some regions, I agree that the amount of money
to burn throw away media might be better spent on things people can use
multiple times in different ways.
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
12:22 p.m.
+1 for USB. That's actually a bit more useful these days. I'm curious; when
do we actually distribute install media, other than at events?
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 4 September 2014 11:14, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Matthew Miller píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 12:38 -0400:
> > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> > > That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product
> > > right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a
> > > consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a
> DVD
> > > recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
> >
> > Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the
> > workstation media?
>
> This sounds like an interesting idea to me. I have no idea how it would
> behave and if it'd be usable running Fedora live, but it's worth trying.
>
> > In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to
> the
> > audience.
> >
> > If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation
> > media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
> >
> > For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so
> interesting, and
> > maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year,
> most
> > people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just
> > collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a
> Fedora
> > server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question
> is
> > whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes
convince
> > people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got
> it
> > already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB
> stick
> > or DVD.)
> >
> > If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to
> make
> > and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD
> available
> > for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate
> > anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly
> > interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw.
> > Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can
> > net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would
> probably
> > satisfy.
>
> Ok, let me put the ideas in the cost perspective:
> In EMEA if we order 5000 DVDs of one kind (same content, same graphics)
> we pay ~ $1750.
> If we order 1000 DVDs then the price is ~$800.
>
> So if we for example order 5 different DVDs, 1000 pieces each, the total
> price will be: $4000.
>
>
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
helping someone else' system?
While DVD's are useful in some regions, I agree that the amount of money
to burn throw away media might be better spent on things people can use
multiple times in different ways.
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
--
marketing mailing list
marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
12:38 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
Joe Brockmeier píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 08:26 -0500:
> On 09/03/2014 06:41 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> > Hi,
> > yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
> > produce for F21.
> > We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
> > the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
> > In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
> > very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
> > the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
> > offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
> > that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
> > Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
> > not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
> > Fedora.Next products.
> >
> > Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
> > * the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
> > * having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
> > * having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
> > * creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
> > many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
> >
> > Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
> > group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
> > this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
>
> Thanks. I'm assuming we're actually talking about physical media to hand
> out at events?
Yes.
> Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments
> where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient
> bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle
> creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product
right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a
consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD
recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
working group to ask if this distribution channel is important to them.
We should also note that the decision would have its price. Producing
1000 Server DVDs only for EMEA would cost around $800.
> I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user
> groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs
> people to the downloads/cloud images.
Getting started cards is a great idea. Generally, I'd love to see more
fliers given away at events because right now all our swag is just about
branding, it doesn't carry any information.
To be honest - I think it's worth spending money on providing information
to our (potential) users than paying money to provide DVD for SWAG
collectors. I know some people still rely on DVD and there are good use
cases for DVDs but I'm not sure we really have to spend so much money on
it or maybe produce less media and give it away on request not to
everyone (getting started card with QR code would be for it).
Jaroslav
Jiri
--
marketing mailing list
marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
1:11 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)?
And
how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very
excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in
your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger,
more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not
taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
1:47 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen
wrote:
> How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
> how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
> helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very
excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in
your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger,
more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not
taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your*
flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you
flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora
etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work
would be required to create nice box.
Jaroslav
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
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1:48 p.m.
Over the past years, this conversation regularly comes up. It's a good time
to discuss it again. I think either way, people are going to reformat them,
it's what I do when I get media from others. But more importantly, two
things come to mind.
First, branding is important. If we brand the usb with Fedora on it and our
url or something (and not on the crappy usbs we use right now) that won't
come off others will probably see it. Putting Fedora into people's minds is
a good thing.
Second, if we can put live media onto it, it's an easy win. Like I said,
the person is likely to reformat it, but if they are presented with the
media as a drawing or by learning about the four principles, it's an
overall win. Maybe they'll join Fedora, maybe they won't, but at least they
learned a little about our project and might share it with someone else.
While writing this, I was thinking of another benefit of using usb sticks.
At conferences and conventions it seems that there's a lot of 'challenges'
being put forth. We could reward those who want to take the challenge with
a usb stick, and the winner with something a bit nicer (t-shirt or hat or
something more, possibly a nicer electronic gadget).
Thoughts?
Clint
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen
wrote:
> How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
> how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
> helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly
very
excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in
your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger,
more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not
taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
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2:15 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 01:14:46PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 10:09:01PM +0530, beta tester wrote:
> +1 to this i fully agree with amita we should not limit people to any
> flavour otherwise we are not supporting the spread of fedora.
This isn't a question of limiting people.
Also, calling this a "limit" is illogical. If you are planning to run
a server, we can safely assume you are connected to a network, and
that you're capable of downloading an image. So you don't need to be
handed a physical disc in order to make one.
It's a question of what we spend our limited money on to actively
promote,
as well as our limited time and availability, and the limited time in which
we can get a given audience to listen to us.
That doesn't mean that we _have_ to focus that promotion, but the basic
strategy here is that if we do, we can get _really good returns_ in a
particular area, rather than poor returns across the board. Then, in the
long run, that can spill out to actual broader success across the board.
+1.
--
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The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com
2:18 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:30PM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
> > how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
> > helping someone else' system?
>
> At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very
> excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in
> your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger,
> more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not
> taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your*
flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you
flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora
etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work
would be required to create nice box.
I recall such a device being present at LinuxTag about 5 years ago.
However, I also seem to recall it, and the booth, being overwhelmed by
people wanting to take advantage of it. In some sense that's a good
problem to have (would we?); in another larger sense, lots of
dissatisfied people.
--
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gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com
2:29 p.m.
Stephen John Smoogen píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 11:20 -0600:
<snip>
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)?
And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by
sharing or helping someone else' system?
Red Hat Czech recently ordered business-card-like 8GB usb flash drives
in quantity of 800 and one was for 102 CZK (~$5). You can probably get a
bit cheaper ones, but we want some branding, so the cheapest ones with
no place to print our logo won't be a good solution. Moreover I don't
think their price would be below $4.
So for $1750, you can produce 350 flash sticks instead of 5000 DVDs
(their unit price is $.35).
The price difference is still huge and it's not getting smaller. I've
been checking prices for the last two years and prices of suitable flash
drives haven't changed much, it's still about $5, just their capacity
goes up.
Jiri
2:29 p.m.
On 09/04/2014 01:47 PM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work
would be required to create nice box.
So - depending on the size of the box, etc. You may spend more $$ on
shipping and managing the box to events than you would just
drop-shipping enough media to give away at the event.
Also - there's a bit of coding involved, and time to copy to media - so
harder to handle rushes to the booth, and a box of DVDs doesn't crash or
need its interface explained to new users. ;-)
I like Matthew's idea about having physical workstation media that has
the server VM on it. But I don't think it's worth the extra cost to
produce physical media for the server when that audience should have the
bandwidth + expertise to create their own media. It's not 100% perfect
for all audiences - but it's likely the most bang for our buck across
all audiences and geos.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/
2:34 p.m.
On 09/04/2014 02:18 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
I recall such a device being present at LinuxTag about 5 years ago.
However, I also seem to recall it, and the booth, being overwhelmed by
people wanting to take advantage of it. In some sense that's a good
problem to have (would we?); in another larger sense, lots of
dissatisfied people.
I recall having to staff booths with such a device. Great idea in
concept, less so in practice. Does not handle the rush between
talks/during breaks well at all. Also, it tends to distract from *actual
conversations* and winds up being more interesting in and of itself.
To promote SUSE Studio, that was fine - that was the idea, to promote
that. We're not trying to promote our ability to build images on the
fly, but trying to get Fedora in as many hands as possible _and_ help
new users be successful.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/
2:34 p.m.
Jaroslav Reznik píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 14:47 -0400:
----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
> > how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
> > helping someone else' system?
>
> At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very
> excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in
> your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger,
> more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not
> taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your*
flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you
flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora
etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work
would be required to create nice box.
We discussed this idea and turned it down in the end. The reasons were:
* we tried it in EMEA and people weren't really excited about it, they
didn't want to wait several minutes to get it loaded or they didn't have
their own flash drives,
* we would lose branding,
* such machines are pretty expensive,
* LATAM and APAC regions would have problems to get such a machines past
customs and shipping would also be expensive.
Jiri
2:48 p.m.
On 4 September 2014 13:29, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Stephen John Smoogen píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 11:20 -0600:
<snip>
>
> How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)?
> And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by
> sharing or helping someone else' system?
Red Hat Czech recently ordered business-card-like 8GB usb flash drives
in quantity of 800 and one was for 102 CZK (~$5). You can probably get a
bit cheaper ones, but we want some branding, so the cheapest ones with
no place to print our logo won't be a good solution. Moreover I don't
think their price would be below $4.
So for $1750, you can produce 350 flash sticks instead of 5000 DVDs
(their unit price is $.35).
The price difference is still huge and it's not getting smaller. I've
been checking prices for the last two years and prices of suitable flash
drives haven't changed much, it's still about $5, just their capacity
goes up.
Yeah. The question is what will people value more. A looong time ago, I saw
that when we had tons of giveaways, they ended up in the trash on the way
out.. but when we had a limited number of them and people had to 'earn'
them somehow (nothing silly just help someone answer a question on Linux)
there was a lot less give-away trash at the exits. That is completely
anecdotal so I don't know how true it is.. but I was just wondering if it
might be a better bang.
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
4:51 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:30PM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And
> > how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or
> > helping someone else' system?
>
> At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very
> excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in
> your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger,
> more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not
> taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your*
flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you
flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora
etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work
would be required to create nice box.
Jaroslav
I had a similar idea. Why not have a box+wifi access point with local copies
for download? Should be pretty quick over local lan for the downloads, plus
people could do that during talks, not just in between talks. Also, regarding
the "challenge" to get a USB key or some other swag, the challenge could reside
on the box with the images (I'm envisioning something like a Fedora python
challenge [0]).
Talking to MarkDude in #fedora-mktg, he thought there could easily be a FAD to
develop something like this. It would by no means replace physical media, but
might be able to extend the visibility of the Fedora booth pretty well.
I have more thoughts on how it could be implemented and leveraged, but will hold
off until the brain trust has some time to decide if it's worth going after.
[0] http://www.pythonchallenge.com/
--
// Mike
--
Fedora QA
freenode: roshi
http://roshi.fedorapeople.org
5:45 a.m.
Hi,
discussions for USB sticks, Live USB Creator that was the thing once
called, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LiveUsbCreator or
Wifi-Special-Mirror are very far from the problem
But now back to ideas for the visibility.
How would it be not to "brand" it as desktop from the outside. What I mean
is normally we do this cheap envelopes. How would be we do this time so
called Digisleeve or DigiFile (I mean here the format, we should not choose
the brand). Problem with the other one is, if you take a look:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/d5/Fedora-20-livemedia-mate_compiz-...
on the backside is no space left at all through the necessary legal text.
On front the edge with architecture as the text what media it is not
necessary from a legal point, we do it more of historical reasons. With an
Digisleeve or Digifile we had one page more in the inside, where we can
place server and cloud text for marketing reason. It will be little bit
more expensive but think lesser as producing server media
another option would be to paper wrap them, like
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/7/70/Fedora-20-foldinginstructions.pdf
that can be done from vendors also, we could keep, it except legal text
also very neutral and would have the whole inside for information about
fedora.next and the other products.
There would be several such solutions.
So there would be other options as producing server media for getting
attention that there is a change and we have now server, cloud and
workstation
Note that will not touch the other sleeves and media artwork Design Team
does: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MediaArt/F20 the opposite,
there will be sleeves for server and maybe also cloud. But hopefully
somebody tells us how all the media will be called in the future
br gnokii
2014-09-04 23:51 GMT+02:00 Mike Ruckman <roshi(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:30PM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > > How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)?
And
> > > how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing
or
> > > helping someone else' system?
> >
> > At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we
clearly very
> > excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm
interested in
> > your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to
bigger,
> > more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are
not
> > taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
>
> Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your*
> flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you
> flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora
> etc. And it can also burn media :).
>
> It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work
> would be required to create nice box.
>
> Jaroslav
>
I had a similar idea. Why not have a box+wifi access point with local
copies
for download? Should be pretty quick over local lan for the downloads, plus
people could do that during talks, not just in between talks. Also,
regarding
the "challenge" to get a USB key or some other swag, the challenge could
reside
on the box with the images (I'm envisioning something like a Fedora python
challenge [0]).
Talking to MarkDude in #fedora-mktg, he thought there could easily be a
FAD to
develop something like this. It would by no means replace physical media,
but
might be able to extend the visibility of the Fedora booth pretty well.
I have more thoughts on how it could be implemented and leveraged, but
will hold
off until the brain trust has some time to decide if it's worth going
after.
[0] http://www.pythonchallenge.com/
--
// Mike
--
Fedora QA
freenode: roshi
http://roshi.fedorapeople.org
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10:01 a.m.
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
Hi,
yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
produce for F21.
We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
* the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
* having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
* having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
* creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as
we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable
option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not
much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again.
The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only
registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been
some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no
one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the
matter forward.
So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we
don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably. We may
also consider some less power hungry option for the regions of APAC and
LATAM (probably Xfce Spin). But it only will be an alternative, Fedora
Workstation DVD is what we want to distribute globally.
The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at
the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their
budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best
what they need.
Other kinds of media might be also considered and used in the end, but
it doesn't stop the DVD production because DVDs will remain our primary
media for this release.
The plan is of course a subject of change. I just felt it was necessary
to push it forward and propose a concrete solution because there is not
much time left.
Jiri
10:22 a.m.
On 10/01/2014 10:01 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
The plan is of course a subject of change. I just felt it was
necessary
to push it forward and propose a concrete solution because there is not
much time left.
This sounds reasonable to me - (including pushing to a concrete
solution). +1
Thanks, Jiri!
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/
10:53 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 05:01:06PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is
at
the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their
budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best
what they need.
I think this is a good idea, particularly because the Ambassadors (both
globally and regionally) should be best-placed in the project to judge media
demand.
We should make sure to plan some budget for this (both in the remainder of
this year and for next FY), and I think that we should to expand this even
beyond per-region to considering per-event requests. At most events, we want
to promote our unified Fedora message as designed by the marketing team, but
there are other situations as well:
a. "grassroots' events like LUG meetings, where the ambassador on the ground
may be involved primarily because of their work on or interest in KDE or
some other spin. (And this isn't just desktops; I'd support some funding
for making media for the robotics spin for a robotics meetup, if someone
wanted to do that — Fedora _is_ the OS of choice for the world's best
RoboCup team!)
b. Linux fests and events where we know that the audience's primary interest
is going to be how the desktop they care about works on Fedora, not our
Fedora Workstation developer target.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
11:07 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] F21 media
Matthew Miller píše v St 01. 10. 2014 v 11:53 -0400:
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 05:01:06PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at
> the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their
> budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best
> what they need.
I think this is a good idea, particularly because the Ambassadors (both
globally and regionally) should be best-placed in the project to judge media
demand.
We should make sure to plan some budget for this (both in the remainder of
this year and for next FY), and I think that we should to expand this even
beyond per-region to considering per-event requests. At most events, we want
to promote our unified Fedora message as designed by the marketing team, but
there are other situations as well:
a. "grassroots' events like LUG meetings, where the ambassador on the ground
may be involved primarily because of their work on or interest in KDE or
some other spin. (And this isn't just desktops; I'd support some funding
for making media for the robotics spin for a robotics meetup, if someone
wanted to do that — Fedora _is_ the OS of choice for the world's best
RoboCup team!)
b. Linux fests and events where we know that the audience's primary interest
is going to be how the desktop they care about works on Fedora, not our
Fedora Workstation developer target.
The standard media production should be planned in regional budgets. At
least we have money for it in the EMEA budget.
We don't have money for special media for particular events. That's
something we may be able to cover from reserves (if we have any :) ).
There is also a practical problem with production. The vendor we're
using doesn't even produce pressed DVDs in quantities under 1000 and
burnt DVDs are pretty expensive (up to $1.5 per DVD). DVD production in
small quantities is expensive.
Jiri
11:31 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] F21 media
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 06:07:05PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
We don't have money for special media for particular events.
That's
something we may be able to cover from reserves (if we have any :) ).
As I understand it, there's at least some.
There is also a practical problem with production. The vendor
we're
using doesn't even produce pressed DVDs in quantities under 1000 and
burnt DVDs are pretty expensive (up to $1.5 per DVD). DVD production in
small quantities is expensive.
Optical drives are an increasing rarity in new computers. They'll be going
the way of the floppy soon enough. I think that for next year, we should
deemphasize DVDs overall, instead focusing on fliers and promotional
material. I know this is _also_ an extra cost, but I think it would be worth
printing these on demand per-event with event-specific URLs, so we can
better judge return rates.
If we move to USB sticks (rather than just ditching media altogether), I
think we should follow the suggestions from earlier threads and raise the
bar for getting one — perhaps even to the point of asking people to sign up
for a Fedora account (and promising no spam, of course) if they don't have
one, and visiting Badges to get the badge for that conference.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
11:41 a.m.
On 10/01/2014 11:01 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
> Hi,
> yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
> produce for F21.
> We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
> the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
> In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
> very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
> the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
> offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
> that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
> Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
> not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
> Fedora.Next products.
>
> Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
> * the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
> * having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
> * having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
> * creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
> many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
>
> Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
> group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
> this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
>
> Jiri
>
> P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as
> we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable
> option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not
> much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again.
The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only
registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been
some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no
one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the
matter forward.
So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we
don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably.
With my Fedora Design hat on here, does this mean that the sleeve and
disc designs could
use the "Fedora Workstation" branding?
cheers,
ryanlerch
11:54 a.m.
Ryan Lerch píše v St 01. 10. 2014 v 12:41 -0400:
On 10/01/2014 11:01 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
>> Hi,
>> yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
>> produce for F21.
>> We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
>> the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
>> In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
>> very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
>> the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
>> offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
>> that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
>> Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
>> not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
>> Fedora.Next products.
>>
>> Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
>> * the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
>> * having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
>> * having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
>> * creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
>> many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
>>
>> Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
>> group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
>> this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
>>
>> Jiri
>>
>> P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as
>> we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable
>> option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not
>> much has changed there in the last two years :/
> We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again.
> The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only
> registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been
> some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no
> one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the
> matter forward.
> So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we
> don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably.
With my Fedora Design hat on here, does this mean that the sleeve and
disc designs could
use the "Fedora Workstation" branding?
Yes, I suppose they should use the FW branding since the FW product will
be the only content of the DVD.
Jiri
11:25 a.m.
New subject: F21 media production - final quotes
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 01. 10. 2014 v 17:01 +0200:
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
> Hi,
> yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should
> produce for F21.
> We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with
> the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it.
> In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not
> very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize
> the official products and those products should be delivered as clear
> offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means
> that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users.
> Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is
> not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of
> Fedora.Next products.
>
> Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
> * the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
> * having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
> * having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
> * creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
> many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
>
> Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server
> group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because
> this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
>
> Jiri
>
> P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as
> we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable
> option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not
> much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again.
The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only
registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been
some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no
one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the
matter forward.
So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we
don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably. We may
also consider some less power hungry option for the regions of APAC and
LATAM (probably Xfce Spin). But it only will be an alternative, Fedora
Workstation DVD is what we want to distribute globally.
The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at
the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their
budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best
what they need.
Other kinds of media might be also considered and used in the end, but
it doesn't stop the DVD production because DVDs will remain our primary
media for this release.
The plan is of course a subject of change. I just felt it was necessary
to push it forward and propose a concrete solution because there is not
much time left.
Jiri
Hi,
I finally have quotes for EMEA:
dual-layer DVD (DVD9):
unit price: $.78 (quantity: 1000), $.55 (2000), $.44 (3000), $.36 (5000)
single-layer DVD (DVD5):
unit price: $.70 (1000), $.50 (2000), $.41 (3000), $.34 (5000)
If we want CD Digipack (booklet cover instead of a simple sleeve cover)
we will have to pay an additional cost:
$.50 (1000), $.35 (2000), $.27 (3000), $.22 (5000)
I also asked about the mini DVDs (8cm) which are much lighter to ship.
They said they don't produce them any more because they don't work with
the new Macbook-like DVD drives which is a very valid argument against
them.
USB flash disk (form factor: credit card, CMYK print, 4GB, quantity:
500):
unit price: $4.36
The price already includes preloading data on the drives.
We've explored the market quite extensively and you cannot buy flash
drives much cheaper. We may get down to $3-4, but it'd be really shitty
drives with no print on them and no preloaded data.
Paper web key (21x10cm):
unit prices: $1.97 (500), $1.55 (1000)
Plastic web key (see the attached picture):
unit prices: $1.54 (500), $1.34 (1000)
The price of web keys is IMHO quite high considering that they can't
contain almost no data. They're usually used to open a browser with a
certain website, so I guess autorun is used which is more or less a
Windows-only thing.
The cheapest alternative to DVDs would be fliers with a download link/QR
code and instructions how to download Fedora, create a bootable usb, and
install it.
I've already created a ticket in the EMEA trac, so that we can discuss
and vote about the production for this region:
https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/422
Jiri
3473
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marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
33 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Amita -
beta tester -
Bill Wood -
Chris Roberts -
Clint Savage -
Jaroslav Reznik -
Jiri Eischmann -
Joe Brockmeier -
Matthew Miller -
Mike Ruckman -
Paul W. Frields -
Ryan Lerch -
S.Kemter -
Stephen John Smoogen -
Truong Anh Tuan