Co-branding?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi,

I was talking recently to a couple of friends who aren't in the software 
industry and it came out in our recent discussions that both the 
companies they are working for is using Fedora on their systems. They 
remarked that they had no idea that Red Hat was involved in Fedora.

I still meet people in various places who think Red Hat has stopped 
working on a free distribution after Red Hat Linux 9 and continue to use 
it or worse a earlier version.

I just looked within Fedora to see if there was any hint and couldn't 
really find any prominent ones. The note on http://fedoraproject.org is 
also easily missed. Is this a deliberate decision? Should there be some 
of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other places?

Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some 
such.

Rahul

[Joerg Simon]

Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:

>  Should there be some 
>  of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other
>  places?
>  Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some
>  such. 
-1 from me
Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not enough?



-- 
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Rahul Sundaram]

JoergSimon wrote:
>  Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>  
> > Should there be some 
> > of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other
> > places?
> > Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some
> > such.
>  
>  -1 from me
>  Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not enough? 
A typical Fedora user wouldn't ever see this and the point isn't really 
credit but continuity from Red Hat Linux. Long term contributors might 
and people who are actively involved in the linux community will but not 
regular end users who just use the distribution which is the large 
majority wouldn't. They will just see the bootup screen and background. 
Even the website is somewhat a secondary audience but since we have now 
a start.fp.o home page that is more prominent too.

Rahul

[Nayyar Ahmad]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  JoergSimon wrote:
>  > Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>  >
>  >> Should there be some
>  >> of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other
>  >> places?
>  >> Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or
>  some
>  >> such.
>  >
>  > -1 from me
>  > Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>  > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not enough?
>
>  A typical Fedora user wouldn't ever see this and the point isn't really
>  credit but continuity from Red Hat Linux. Long term contributors might
>  and people who are actively involved in the linux community will but not
>  regular end users who just use the distribution which is the large
>  majority wouldn't. They will just see the bootup screen and background.
>  Even the website is somewhat a secondary audience but since we have now
>  a start.fp.o home page that is more prominent too. 

btw, what would be the impact if an ordinary Linux user d'nt know about who
is the sponsor of the Distro he/she is using?


>  Rahul
>
>  --
>  Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>  


-- 
Nayyar Ahmad
RHCE (ID:804006858622745)
Skype: nayyares
Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com

[Rahul Sundaram]

Nayyar Ahmad wrote:
>  
>  
>  On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram 
>  <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
>      JoergSimon wrote:
>       > Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>       >
>       >> Should there be some
>       >> of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other
>       >> places?
>       >> Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat
>      or some
>       >> such.
>       >
>       > -1 from me
>       > Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>       > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not
>      enough?
>  
>      A typical Fedora user wouldn't ever see this and the point isn't really
>      credit but continuity from Red Hat Linux. Long term contributors might
>      and people who are actively involved in the linux community will but not
>      regular end users who just use the distribution which is the large
>      majority wouldn't. They will just see the bootup screen and background.
>      Even the website is somewhat a secondary audience but since we have now
>      a start.fp.o home page that is more prominent too.
>  
>  
>  btw, what would be the impact if an ordinary Linux user d'nt know about 
>  who is the sponsor of the Distro he/she is using? 
As I already explained, Fedora releases have a long standing legacy of 
Red Hat Linux releases. We are losing long term users and potential 
contributors who aren't aware of the transition. There are a number of 
sub projects which take advantage of this continuing including EPEL.

Rahul

[Zhukov Pavel]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Nayyar Ahmad wrote:
>   >
>   >
>   > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram
>
>  > <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>   >
>   >     JoergSimon wrote:
>   >      > Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>   >      >
>   >      >> Should there be some
>   >      >> of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other
>   >      >> places?
>   >      >> Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat
>   >     or some
>   >      >> such.
>   >      >
>   >      > -1 from me
>   >      > Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>   >      > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not
>   >     enough?
>   >
>   >     A typical Fedora user wouldn't ever see this and the point isn't
> really
>   >     credit but continuity from Red Hat Linux. Long term contributors might
>   >     and people who are actively involved in the linux community will but not
>   >     regular end users who just use the distribution which is the large
>   >     majority wouldn't. They will just see the bootup screen and background.
>   >     Even the website is somewhat a secondary audience but since we have now
>   >     a start.fp.o home page that is more prominent too.
>   >
>   >
>   > btw, what would be the impact if an ordinary Linux user d'nt know about
>   > who is the sponsor of the Distro he/she is using?
>
>   As I already explained, Fedora releases have a long standing legacy of
>   Red Hat Linux releases. We are losing long term users and potential
>   contributors who aren't aware of the transition. There are a number of
>   sub projects which take advantage of this continuing including EPEL.
>
>
>
>   Rahul
>
>   --
>   Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>   Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>  
Agree.  People should know:  gain fedora experience  =  gain Red Hat
Linux experience.

we can use logo for example like this:
http://fedoraproject.org.ru/files/fedora-logo.png

[Russell Harrison]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Zhukov Pavel <gelios(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>   Agree.  People should know:  gain fedora experience  =  gain Red
> Hat
>   Linux experience. 
This is a very important point.  I don't know how many people keep
saying they're going to learn Linux because they want to work in the
enterprise, and run right out and install Ubuntu...  <sigh>

Russell

Fedora in the Enterprise (was: Co-branding?)

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

Russell Harrison wrote:
>  On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Zhukov Pavel
> <gelios(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >  Agree.  People should know:  gain fedora experience  =  gain Red Hat
> >  Linux experience.
>  
>  This is a very important point.  I don't know how many people keep
>  saying they're going to learn Linux because they want to work in the
>  enterprise, and run right out and install Ubuntu...  <sigh>
>  
>  Russell
>   
I think this new topic says all I have to say.

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip

[Nayyar Ahmad]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  Nayyar Ahmad wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram
>  > <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  >
>  >     JoergSimon wrote:
>  >      > Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>  >      >
>  >      >> Should there be some
>  >      >> of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in
>  other
>  >      >> places?
>  >      >> Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat
>  >     or some
>  >      >> such.
>  >      >
>  >      > -1 from me
>  >      > Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>  >      > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not
>  >     enough?
>  >
>  >     A typical Fedora user wouldn't ever see this and the point isn't
>  really
>  >     credit but continuity from Red Hat Linux. Long term contributors
>  might
>  >     and people who are actively involved in the linux community will but
>  not
>  >     regular end users who just use the distribution which is the large
>  >     majority wouldn't. They will just see the bootup screen and
>  background.
>  >     Even the website is somewhat a secondary audience but since we have
>  now
>  >     a start.fp.o home page that is more prominent too.
>  >
>  >
>  > btw, what would be the impact if an ordinary Linux user d'nt know about
>  > who is the sponsor of the Distro he/she is using?
>
>  As I already explained, Fedora releases have a long standing legacy of
>  Red Hat Linux releases. We are losing long term users and potential
>  contributors who aren't aware of the transition. There are a number of
>  sub projects which take advantage of this continuing including EPEL. 

there is already too much in media/press about this transition, but if still
somebody is unaware of it, Ambassadors should be asked to promote the
insight during their promotional work.

>  Rahul
>
>  --
>  Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>  


-- 
Nayyar Ahmad
RHCE (ID:804006858622745)
Skype: nayyares
Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com

[Donnell Nichols]

I am relatively new to the project but would like to submit this as a comment on co
branding.

Overall co-branding is powerful when a project is on the market and consumers are scared
to test it out.  Co-branding gives the consumer a sense of stability by creating a secure
foundation around the product.  Basically a new user of Fedora may not be knowledable of
the software and name, but since Red Hat is pretty well known co-branding gives that level
of belief that the product has a great support base and foundation.

However, dont we want Fedora to stand on its own merit and the belief that the very
foundation of this product is the large community of people like us who make this product
work.  Co-branding in this case may take away in some aspects from the message we are
trying to put out.

Donnell




Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "Nayyar Ahmad" <nayyares(a)gmail.com&gt;

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:02:56 
To:"For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user
base&quot;&lt;fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
Subject: Re: Co-branding?


On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org
<mailto:[e-mail]> > wrote:
 
JoergSimon wrote:
>  Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>
> > Should there be some
> > of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other
> > places?
> > Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some
> > such.
>
>  -1 from me
>  Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions
> <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions>  <- is this not enough?
 
 A typical Fedora user wouldn't ever see this and the point isn't really
 credit but continuity from Red Hat Linux. Long term contributors might
 and people who are actively involved in the linux community will but not
 regular end users who just use the distribution which is the large
 majority wouldn't. They will just see the bootup screen and background.
 Even the website is somewhat a secondary audience but since we have now
 a start.fp.o home page that is more prominent too.

btw, what would be the impact if an ordinary Linux user d'nt know about who is the
sponsor of the Distro he/she is using?

 
 



 Rahul
 
 --
 Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
 Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]> 
 https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
<https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list> 
 


-- 
Nayyar Ahmad
RHCE (ID:804006858622745)
Skype: nayyares
Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com <http://nayyares.blogspot.com> -- 
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list

[Francesco Ugolini]

2008/3/26, JoergSimon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>
>  -1 from me
>   Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
>   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not enough? 
I agree with Joerg.

Let me explain the reason

I think I'm one of the few contributors who joined fedora as it is,
without knowing what Red Hat was, just knowing it was a sponsor.

Red Hat is helping the project with a lot (really a lot) of resources,
employers and support, but, meanwhile, fedora is facing its own
branding process: it has its community, its values and its
perspective. I think many people are joining the project because they
discovered directly it, they met fedora people, they joined events and
saw our logo. Many times I read in the blog that Fedora is a
distribution for Sysadmin, but it's not completely true: it's for
everyone, and it's not only a distribution, it's a community project.

Yes, RH is really helping us. According to Joerg post, fedora is
demonstrating the great reconnaissance to RH, but according to
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Conduct (for ambassadors,
but it could be extended to the whole project), we are not allowed to
abuse of RH name, even if it gives us resource, just because we didn't
receive the permit from our GREAT sponsor. And I agree completely with
such position: we are offering a service that differs in many way with
a business, we are here to produce a free and open source OS (and
community services) for people, like me, and this way gives us
different goals, strategies, etc...

Red Hat is, and will remain, our point of reference for its values,
for the people and the resources it gives to make this project one of
the best i ever seen.

I think everyone who really know fedora know how RH is helping us, and
i think it the biggest prize we can give it.

Regards

Francesco Ugolini

[Rahul Sundaram]

Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>  2008/3/26, JoergSimon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
> > Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 02:20:03 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> >
> > -1 from me
> >  Rahul, the 1.April is next week ;-)
> >  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions <- is this not enough?
>  
>  I agree with Joerg.
>  
>  Let me explain the reason 
{snipped lot of good thoughts]

Thanks for the thoughtful reasoning. Especially for not giving a knee 
jerk response.

Rahul

[Karsten Wade]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 18:04 +0100, Francesco Ugolini wrote:

>  I think everyone who really know fedora know how RH is helping us,
> and
>  i think it the biggest prize we can give it. 
As an idea that I think is good for Fedora and addresses some of Rahul's
original concern, do we have a "History of Fedora" page?

If/when we do, a nice timeline diagram that looks all Fedora pretty, we
can link to it from our front page.  That way people interested in such
things can find out for themselves without a ton of independent research
or "just knowing".

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

[Bart Couvreur]

Op woensdag 26-03-2008 om 11:04 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten
'quaid' Wade:
>  On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 18:04 +0100, Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>  
>  > I think everyone who really know fedora know how RH is helping us, and
>  > i think it the biggest prize we can give it.
>  
>  As an idea that I think is good for Fedora and addresses some of Rahul's
>  original concern, do we have a "History of Fedora" page?
>  
>  If/when we do, a nice timeline diagram that looks all Fedora pretty, we
>  can link to it from our front page.  That way people interested in such
>  things can find out for themselves without a ton of independent research
>  or "just knowing".
>  
>  - Karsten 
We have 2 pages, one reflecting the RHL history [1] and the other
showing the Fedora history [2]. The latter might need some polishing, or
a merge with the former.

[1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/History
[2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/HistoricalSchedules

Bart

-- 
Bart <couf(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; <couf(a)skynet.be&gt;
key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D  3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93

[Diaa Radwan]

On 03/26/2008 03:20 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  I was talking recently to a couple of friends who aren't in the software 
>  industry and it came out in our recent discussions that both the 
>  companies they are working for is using Fedora on their systems. They 
>  remarked that they had no idea that Red Hat was involved in Fedora.
>  
>  I still meet people in various places who think Red Hat has stopped 
>  working on a free distribution after Red Hat Linux 9 and continue to use 
>  it or worse a earlier version.
>  
>  I just looked within Fedora to see if there was any hint and couldn't 
>  really find any prominent ones. The note on http://fedoraproject.org is 
>  also easily missed. Is this a deliberate decision? Should there be some 
>  of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other 
>  places?
>  
>  Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some 
>  such. 
I think this will bring us back 2 years. One of the major advantage 
given by Red hat; is we got transparent build process; all tools used is 
GPL'ed, all these efforts are done to invite and welcome contributers, I 
think co-branding will do exact the opposite.

>  
>  Rahul
>

[Rahul Sundaram]

Diaa Radwan wrote:
>  On 03/26/2008 03:20 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was talking recently to a couple of friends who aren't in the 
> > software industry and it came out in our recent discussions that both 
> > the companies they are working for is using Fedora on their systems. 
> > They remarked that they had no idea that Red Hat was involved in Fedora.
> >
> > I still meet people in various places who think Red Hat has stopped 
> > working on a free distribution after Red Hat Linux 9 and continue to 
> > use it or worse a earlier version.
> >
> > I just looked within Fedora to see if there was any hint and couldn't 
> > really find any prominent ones. The note on http://fedoraproject.org 
> > is also easily missed. Is this a deliberate decision? Should there be 
> > some of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in 
> > other places?
> >
> > Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or 
> > some such.
>  
>  I think this will bring us back 2 years. One of the major advantage 
>  given by Red hat; is we got transparent build process; all tools used is 
>  GPL'ed, all these efforts are done to invite and welcome contributers, I  will
>  think co-branding will do exact the opposite. 
Free software with branding is still Free software and will continue to 
stay that way. This discussion is orthogonal to that.

Rahul

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  I was talking recently to a couple of friends who aren't in the software 
>  industry and it came out in our recent discussions that both the 
>  companies they are working for is using Fedora on their systems. They 
>  remarked that they had no idea that Red Hat was involved in Fedora.
>  
>  I still meet people in various places who think Red Hat has stopped 
>  working on a free distribution after Red Hat Linux 9 and continue to use 
>  it or worse a earlier version.
>   
People don't know about Linux. People don't know (or don't care) about 
Free and Open Source Software in general. Or open document standards for 
that matter. Even more people do not know EPEL. I've seen experienced 
administrators not knowing perl-LDAP is actually a package and it 
doesn't need to come from CPAN.

Long story short; people just can't keep track. Some people will miss 
out on huge changes. Ask people to explain global warming. Ignorance is 
bliss. And not our problem.

>  I just looked within Fedora to see if there was any hint and
> couldn't 
>  really find any prominent ones. The note on http://fedoraproject.org is 
>  also easily missed. Is this a deliberate decision? Should there be some 
>  of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other 
>  places?
>  
>  Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some 
>  such.
>   
A *huge* -1 here

We've already spend lots of effort getting rid of the widely spread 
prejudice of being Red Hat's pre-enterprise private little playground 
project or distribution, and explaining that we're actually a community 
powered project instead (Yes, sponsored by Red Hat. Yes, upstream to Red 
Hat's Enterprise Linux product *and proud of it, might I add*).

I'm not even sure we actually did get rid of that prejudice entirely. It 
may still exist in some people's heads.

Anyway, correctly and fully exposing how Fedora is related to Red Hat, 
and how that works for both the community and Red Hat, with mere mortals 
on the one side, and business customers on the other, is way more 
important then getting the long-term users back on board because they 
missed out on Red Hat renaming the free/gratis distribution to Fedora, 
making Red Hat their Enterprise product.

Honestly, I don't think it's our problem someone missed out on all this 
  back in the day. If they're really interested / valuable as 
contributors, it'll come naturally. If not, it'll still come naturally 
with the work of our Ambassadors and thanks to other exposure.

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip

[Paul W. Frields]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 12:45 +0100, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>  Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  > 
>  > I was talking recently to a couple of friends who aren't in the software 
>  > industry and it came out in our recent discussions that both the 
>  > companies they are working for is using Fedora on their systems. They 
>  > remarked that they had no idea that Red Hat was involved in Fedora.
>  > 
>  > I still meet people in various places who think Red Hat has stopped 
>  > working on a free distribution after Red Hat Linux 9 and continue to use 
>  > it or worse a earlier version.
>  > 
>  
>  People don't know about Linux. People don't know (or don't care) about 
>  Free and Open Source Software in general. Or open document standards for 
>  that matter. Even more people do not know EPEL. I've seen experienced 
>  administrators not knowing perl-LDAP is actually a package and it 
>  doesn't need to come from CPAN.
>  
>  Long story short; people just can't keep track. Some people will miss 
>  out on huge changes. Ask people to explain global warming. Ignorance is 
>  bliss. And not our problem.
>  
>  > I just looked within Fedora to see if there was any hint and couldn't 
>  > really find any prominent ones. The note on http://fedoraproject.org is 
>  > also easily missed. Is this a deliberate decision? Should there be some 
>  > of co-branding within the distribution and a prominent hint in other 
>  > places?
>  > 
>  > Something like Fedora - Powered by Red Hat/ Sponsored by Red Hat or some 
>  > such.
>  > 
>  
>  A *huge* -1 here
>  
>  We've already spend lots of effort getting rid of the widely spread 
>  prejudice of being Red Hat's pre-enterprise private little playground 
>  project or distribution, and explaining that we're actually a community 
>  powered project instead (Yes, sponsored by Red Hat. Yes, upstream to Red 
>  Hat's Enterprise Linux product *and proud of it, might I add*).
>  
>  I'm not even sure we actually did get rid of that prejudice entirely. It 
>  may still exist in some people's heads.
>  
>  Anyway, correctly and fully exposing how Fedora is related to Red Hat, 
>  and how that works for both the community and Red Hat, with mere mortals 
>  on the one side, and business customers on the other, is way more 
>  important then getting the long-term users back on board because they 
>  missed out on Red Hat renaming the free/gratis distribution to Fedora, 
>  making Red Hat their Enterprise product.
>  
>  Honestly, I don't think it's our problem someone missed out on all this 
>    back in the day. If they're really interested / valuable as 
>  contributors, it'll come naturally. If not, it'll still come naturally 
>  with the work of our Ambassadors and thanks to other exposure. 
In a thread on fedora-ambassadors-list[1], someone was kind enough to
raise an exception from our own Greg DeKoenigsberg:

"The Fedora brand must evolve separately from Red Hat's brand. Fedora is
very important to Red Hat, but Fedora is not Red Hat. It's really
crucial to understand that distinction."

-1 to co-branding.

= = = = =
[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2008-March/msg0018...

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
  irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

[Máirín Duffy]

Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>  We've already spend lots of effort getting rid of the widely
> spread 
>  prejudice of being Red Hat's pre-enterprise private little playground 
>  project or distribution, and explaining that we're actually a community 
>  powered project instead (Yes, sponsored by Red Hat. Yes, upstream to Red 
>  Hat's Enterprise Linux product *and proud of it, might I add*).
>  
>  I'm not even sure we actually did get rid of that prejudice entirely. It 
>  may still exist in some people's heads.
>  
>  Anyway, correctly and fully exposing how Fedora is related to Red Hat, 
>  and how that works for both the community and Red Hat, with mere mortals 
>  on the one side, and business customers on the other, is way more 
>  important then getting the long-term users back on board because they 
>  missed out on Red Hat renaming the free/gratis distribution to Fedora, 
>  making Red Hat their Enterprise product.
>  
>  Honestly, I don't think it's our problem someone missed out on all this 
>   back in the day. If they're really interested / valuable as 
>  contributors, it'll come naturally. If not, it'll still come naturally 
>  with the work of our Ambassadors and thanks to other exposure. 
Dell has provided Fedora with some resources so we have their logo up in 
spots, I think on some of the 404 pages and elsewhere, to give them 
credit for helping Fedora out.

Doesn't Red Hat deserve some kudos for helping Fedora out as well...?

~m

[Máirín Duffy]

Máirín Duffy wrote:
>  Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
> > We've already spend lots of effort getting rid of the widely spread 
> > prejudice of being Red Hat's pre-enterprise private little playground 
> > project or distribution, and explaining that we're actually a 
> > community powered project instead (Yes, sponsored by Red Hat. Yes, 
> > upstream to Red Hat's Enterprise Linux product *and proud of it, might 
> > I add*).
> >
> > I'm not even sure we actually did get rid of that prejudice entirely. 
> > It may still exist in some people's heads.
> >
> > Anyway, correctly and fully exposing how Fedora is related to Red Hat, 
> > and how that works for both the community and Red Hat, with mere 
> > mortals on the one side, and business customers on the other, is way 
> > more important then getting the long-term users back on board because 
> > they missed out on Red Hat renaming the free/gratis distribution to 
> > Fedora, making Red Hat their Enterprise product.
> >
> > Honestly, I don't think it's our problem someone missed out on all 
> > this  back in the day. If they're really interested / valuable as 
> > contributors, it'll come naturally. If not, it'll still come naturally 
> > with the work of our Ambassadors and thanks to other exposure.
>  
>  Dell has provided Fedora with some resources so we have their logo up in 
>  spots, I think on some of the 404 pages and elsewhere, to give them 
>  credit for helping Fedora out.
>  
>  Doesn't Red Hat deserve some kudos for helping Fedora out as well...? 
Just to clarify - I don't mean co-branding as putting the Red Hat brand 
at the same level as the Fedora brand. No way. But listing Red Hat as a 
sponsor of the project, just as we would list any other sponsor, seems 
fair and appropriate to me personally.

(full disclosure: I do work for Red Hat, but I wouldn't let that 
influence an opinion like this)

~m