[Fedora-marketing-list] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira]

Brazilian surveys about: Desktops and Fedora Core 5.
By http://www.projetofedora.org and http://www.fedora.org.br

What's your favorite Desktop ? (1100 Fedora Users)
   Answers   | Results
() KDE      =   46%
() GNOME    =   49%
() OTHERS   =    5%

What do you think about Fedora Core 5?  (400 Fedora Users)
    Answers    | Results
() Very Good  =   47%
() Good       =   41%
() Regular    =    9%
() Bad        =    1%
() Very Bad   =    2%


Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira
M.Sc. at Federal University of Rio de Janeiro
Brazilian Fedora Ambassador
www.projetofedora.org

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Rahul Sundaram]

Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote:
>  Brazilian surveys about: Desktops and Fedora Core 5.
>  By http://www.projetofedora.org and http://www.fedora.org.br
>  
>  What's your favorite Desktop ? (1100 Fedora Users)
>    Answers   | Results
>  () KDE      =   46%
>  () GNOME    =   49%
>  () OTHERS   =    5%
>  
>  What do you think about Fedora Core 5?  (400 Fedora Users)
>     Answers    | Results
>  () Very Good  =   47%
>  () Good       =   41%
>  () Regular    =    9%
>  () Bad        =    1%
>  () Very Bad   =    2%
>   
Interesting numbers. A more broader sample would be useful. Why is there 
two different Brazil sites on Fedora?

Rahul

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 9/27/06, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira <rodrigopadula(a)projetofedora.org&gt; wrote:
>  Brazilian surveys about: Desktops and Fedora Core 5.
>  By http://www.projetofedora.org and http://www.fedora.org.br
>
>  What's your favorite Desktop ? (1100 Fedora Users)
>     Answers   | Results
>  () KDE      =   46%
>  () GNOME    =   49% 
KDE isn't far behind. We have to consider changing the default theme
distributed by Fedora.

Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Rahul Sundaram]

Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
>  On 9/27/06, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira
> <rodrigopadula(a)projetofedora.org&gt; 
>  wrote:
> > Brazilian surveys about: Desktops and Fedora Core 5.
> > By http://www.projetofedora.org and http://www.fedora.org.br
> >
> > What's your favorite Desktop ? (1100 Fedora Users)
> >    Answers   | Results
> > () KDE      =   46%
> > () GNOME    =   49%
>  
>  KDE isn't far behind. We have to consider changing the default theme
>  distributed by Fedora. 
Theme for KDE? GNOME? both? Icons or Window manager? What are the other 
alternatives recommended?

Rahul

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 9/27/06, Rahul <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Theme for KDE? GNOME? both? Icons or Window manager? What are the
> other
>  alternatives recommended? 

I mean KDE. I've noticed no change of kde theme or icon sets since
FC3, but gnome did have clearlooks and so on.

Well, I think for alternatives we can have alook at what we have in FE already:
tango-icon-theme
kdeartwork-icons
crystal


I've asked a RFE for konqueror but sounds like the feature freeze had
already started
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=207770

-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Rahul Sundaram]

Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
>  On 9/27/06, Rahul <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> > Theme for KDE? GNOME? both? Icons or Window manager? What are the other
> > alternatives recommended?
>  
>  
>  I mean KDE. I've noticed no change of kde theme or icon sets since
>  FC3, but gnome did have clearlooks and so on.
>  
>  Well, I think for alternatives we can have alook at what we have in FE 
>  already:
>  tango-icon-theme
>  kdeartwork-icons
>  crystal
>   
Suggest this as a RFE early soon after FC6 is released.  I believe there 
is a extras hand-off planned too. So there would be developer momentum 
to do things that improve the KDE experience in Fedora. Jump on that 
bandwagon and you should be able to get more things done.

Rahul

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Rex Dieter]

Rahul wrote:

>  Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
> > On 9/27/06, Rahul <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> >> Theme for KDE? GNOME? both? Icons or Window manager? What are the other
> >> alternatives recommended?
> > 
> > 
> > I mean KDE. I've noticed no change of kde theme or icon sets since
> > FC3, but gnome did have clearlooks and so on.
> > 
> > Well, I think for alternatives we can have alook at what we have in FE
> > already:
> > tango-icon-theme
> > kdeartwork-icons
> > crystal 
>  Suggest this as a RFE early soon after FC6 is released.  I believe
> there
>  is a extras hand-off planned too. So there would be developer momentum
>  to do things that improve the KDE experience in Fedora. Jump on that
>  bandwagon and you should be able to get more things done. 
You betcha! (:

Personally, I'm of the mind to go KISS (keep it simple, stupid) and
recommend going with kde default crystal(icon)/plastik(widgets).

-- Rex

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Re: [Ambassadors] Fedora in numbers!!!

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 9/27/06, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt; wrote:
>  You betcha! (:
>
>  Personally, I'm of the mind to go KISS (keep it simple, stupid) and
>  recommend going with kde default crystal(icon)/plastik(widgets). 
It depends simple for whom ?
I don't think our KDE is "Simple" with :
- long Kmenu (2 menus which basically say the same thing, (e.g
Administration and Settings)
- software confusion, 2 or more software which do the same thing (e.g
kwrite, kate, kedit)

Definitely, a newbie who wants to use KDE with fedora will have to
spend more time to understand what is what in fedora's KDE.

As an ambassador in Strasbourg, I've seen many former Mandriva users
(kde), migrating to KUbuntu. If you say KUbuntu(with the default
theme) is simple, I might agree.

It's hard, as an ambassador to convince people that you might use KDE
with fedora.
A screenshot of fedora's Kmenu is enough to frighten any newbie.

The question which must be taken into consideration is:
Vista is coming out soon, Ubuntu(and KUbuntu) is making thing more
simple with XGL. Fedora with KDE, how will it look like with aiglx ?


Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Fedora in numbers, kde defaults in future Fedora releases

[Rex Dieter]

Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:

>  On 9/27/06, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt; wrote:
> > You betcha! (:
> >
> > Personally, I'm of the mind to go KISS (keep it simple, stupid) and
> > recommend going with kde default crystal(icon)/plastik(widgets).
>  
>  It depends simple for whom ? 
I'm speaking in the context of look-n-feel, icons/widgets.

>  I don't think our KDE is "Simple" with :
>  - long Kmenu (2 menus which basically say the same thing, (e.g
>  Administration and Settings) 
Administration -> system administration.
Settings -> User-specific preferences

Not really the same thing, imo.

Besides, placement of apps in the menus is not a "KDE" thing, it's
controlled by the apps themselves via what
Categories=...
are listed in their .desktop files.

>  - software confusion, 2 or more software which do the same thing
> (e.g
>  kwrite, kate, kedit) 
Not *exactly* the same thing.  Each has different target audiences with
different feature-sets.

>  It's hard, as an ambassador to convince people that you might use
> KDE
>  with fedora.
>  A screenshot of fedora's Kmenu is enough to frighten any newbie. 
Regardless, imo, this discussion is quickly moving off-topic for
fedora-marketing.  Followup on fedora-list.

-- Rex

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Fedora in numbers, kde defaults in future Fedora releases

[Francesco Ugolini]

I've started my linux experience using kde but after few months i realize
that gnome is the best window manager becuase it is faster than kde and more
acessibile and less *dos like.

2006/9/27, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt;:
>  Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
>
>  > On 9/27/06, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt; wrote:
>  >> You betcha! (:
>  >>
>  >> Personally, I'm of the mind to go KISS (keep it simple, stupid) and
>  >> recommend going with kde default crystal(icon)/plastik(widgets).
>  >
>  > It depends simple for whom ?
>
>  I'm speaking in the context of look-n-feel, icons/widgets.
>
>  > I don't think our KDE is "Simple" with :
>  > - long Kmenu (2 menus which basically say the same thing, (e.g
>  > Administration and Settings)
>
>  Administration -> system administration.
>  Settings -> User-specific preferences
>
>  Not really the same thing, imo.
>
>  Besides, placement of apps in the menus is not a "KDE" thing, it's
>  controlled by the apps themselves via what
>  Categories=...
>  are listed in their .desktop files.
>
>  > - software confusion, 2 or more software which do the same thing (e.g
>  > kwrite, kate, kedit)
>
>  Not *exactly* the same thing.  Each has different target audiences with
>  different feature-sets.
>
>  > It's hard, as an ambassador to convince people that you might use KDE
>  > with fedora.
>  > A screenshot of fedora's Kmenu is enough to frighten any newbie.
>
>  Regardless, imo, this discussion is quickly moving off-topic for
>  fedora-marketing.  Followup on fedora-list.
>
>  -- Rex
>
>  --
>  Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Fedora in numbers, kde defaults in future Fedora releases

[Heiko Adams]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

For me it's nearly the same way. I've started with kde but realized
shortly the gnome is the better one. for me kde is for the "kids"

Am Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:00:46 +0200
schrieb "Francesco Ugolini" <francesco.ugolini(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:

>  I've started my linux experience using kde but after few months
> i
>  realize that gnome is the best window manager becuase it is faster
>  than kde and more acessibile and less *dos like.
>  
>  2006/9/27, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt;:
>  >
>  > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
>  >
>  > > On 9/27/06, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt; wrote:
>  > >> You betcha! (:
>  > >>
>  > >> Personally, I'm of the mind to go KISS (keep it simple, stupid)
>  > >> and recommend going with kde default
>  > >> crystal(icon)/plastik(widgets).
>  > >
>  > > It depends simple for whom ?
>  >
>  > I'm speaking in the context of look-n-feel, icons/widgets.
>  >
>  > > I don't think our KDE is "Simple" with :
>  > > - long Kmenu (2 menus which basically say the same thing, (e.g
>  > > Administration and Settings)
>  >
>  > Administration -> system administration.
>  > Settings -> User-specific preferences
>  >
>  > Not really the same thing, imo.
>  >
>  > Besides, placement of apps in the menus is not a "KDE" thing, it's
>  > controlled by the apps themselves via what
>  > Categories=...
>  > are listed in their .desktop files.
>  >
>  > > - software confusion, 2 or more software which do the same thing
>  > > (e.g kwrite, kate, kedit)
>  >
>  > Not *exactly* the same thing.  Each has different target audiences
>  > with different feature-sets.
>  >
>  > > It's hard, as an ambassador to convince people that you might use
>  > > KDE with fedora.
>  > > A screenshot of fedora's Kmenu is enough to frighten any newbie.
>  >
>  > Regardless, imo, this discussion is quickly moving off-topic for
>  > fedora-marketing.  Followup on fedora-list.
>  >
>  > -- Rex
>  >
>  > --
>  > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  > Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>  > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
> >  > 
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
>
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[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Fedora in numbers, kde defaults in future Fedora releases

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 9/27/06, Heiko Adams <heiko.adams gmx. de> wrote:
>  For me it's nearly the same way. I've started with kde but realized
>  shortly the gnome is the better one. for me kde is for the "kids"
>  

>  schrieb "Francesco Ugolini" <francesco.ugolini
> fedoraproject.   org>:
>
>  I've started my linux experience using kde but after few months i
>  realize that gnome is the best window manager becuase it is faster
>  than kde and more acessibile and less *dos like.
>  
Well, the discussion is NOT about whether KDE and gnome is better, but
rather how we can enhance the look and feel of KDE from fedora as
simple as possible.



Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com

[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Fedora in numbers, kde defaults in future Fedora releases

[Chitlesh GOORAH]

On 9/27/06, Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu&gt; wrote:
>  > It depends simple for whom ?
>
>  I'm speaking in the context of look-n-feel, icons/widgets. 
I guess crystal icons and plastic theme are simple in the context of
look-n-feel, icons/widgets, I think they both comes from Core packages
.


>  Administration -> system administration.
>  Settings -> User-specific preferences
>
>  Not really the same thing, imo. 
True, there are not the same thing, but we are having "Settings" as a
duplicate for modules found in kcontrol.


>  Besides, placement of apps in the menus is not a "KDE"
> thing, it's
>  controlled by the apps themselves via what
>  Categories=...
>  are listed in their .desktop files. 
Perhaps, we can work more on the simplicity of KDE .desktop which
comes from Core.

My girlfriend has followed the discussions and agreed to say something about it:


---------------------------------------------------------
I'd say it's a question of which people you target:
If you want to be a distribution for more sophisticated and exeperienced
users - let me call them geeks  ;)  - then you're fine with putting every
possible kde-app into the core to satisfy everybody's needs.

If your aim is  that people using windows switch to fedora (also known
as "newbies"  ;)  ) who first have to learn what kate (kwrite / kedit) is, how
you use it, when and where...  then you'll better try to simplify the distro.

My _personal_ aim is that people like my parents use linux, that's why I'm
very happy with the (k)ubuntu-ish way of doing it: ONE application for ONE
task.
If later they get so experienced that they need kwrite, too - well:
sudo apt-get install kwrite
Most people nowadays have fast internet connection.

System Administration / Settings: I don't remeber exactly how those are in
fedora, but I know that with kcontrol I can control virtually everything I
need to. Even the reduced version in Kubuntu (kcontrol is still there by the
way, it's just not in the menu) will make an average user very, very happy.

So it's all a question of what you want with fedora and of which your target
audience is.
___________

You can quote me if you want to  :-D
(...and if you do, mention that my mom recently switched to kubuntu  ;)  )
--------------------------------

Chitlesh
-- 
http://clunixchit.blogspot.com