12:45 a.m.
Marketing! Logistics! Documentation! News! Design! Ambassadors! (If I've
missed a group that should know about this, please forward it on and let
me know.)
Linux Pro Magazine (LPM) has proposed to make a special Fedora print
issue for F12 - thousands of magazines out on newsstands internationally
with an F12 DVD tucked inside. This would be very, very cool. We're
trying to figure out whether this is possible, whether we should do it,
and (if both of those are "yes"), how the balance of work would be
distributed between the Fedora community (perhaps with help from the Red
Hat Brand team) and LPM.
We'd love your thoughts and feedback. This is moving quite rapidly (it
first came up on Wednesday afternoon; we need to give a yes or no for
F12 next week), so I've summarized the current state of things on a
project page at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine. We
would particularly love your ideas for
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine#Contribution_balance.
Rikki Kite from LPM is being absolutely awesome about transparency for
this entire process, has made a version of the proposal for public
consumption (it's all the information that we have, minus financials and
circulation numbers):
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine_proposal.
If you have any questions, please add them to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine#Questions - myself,
Max Spevack, Karsten Wade, and David Nalley will be calling Rikki and
the folks at LPM tomorrow (Friday), so that'll be a first chance
(definitely not the last!) to get some of these questions answered.
--Mel
PS: One of the most surprising things I've learned in the last 24 hours
is that the good folks down in LATAM are already doing a Fedora magazine
- see
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine#Of_Magazine_work_don....
Ambassadors *rock.*
4:59 p.m.
[Trimming the recipient list down a little bit.]
*** AMBASSADORS: PLEASE READ THIS EMAIL ***
Linux Pro Magazine (LPM) has proposed to make a special Fedora print
issue for F12 - thousands of magazines out on newsstands
internationally with an F12 DVD tucked inside. This would be very,
very cool. We're trying to figure out whether this is possible,
whether we should do it, and (if both of those are "yes"), how the
balance of work would be distributed between the Fedora community
(perhaps with help from the Red Hat Brand team) and LPM.
We'd love your thoughts and feedback. This is moving quite rapidly (it
first came up on Wednesday afternoon; we need to give a yes or no for
F12 next week), so I've summarized the current state of things on a
project page at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine.
There are a few points that I'd like to add to this discussion.
(1) Nothing has been decided yet -- as a collective, we need to think
about the ideas presented by LPM, as well as the timeline that we would
have to operate under, the content that we would need to produce, etc.
(2) There is a price tag associated with this project, that (if we say
yes to it) will require us to get a bit clever with the way we plan for
Fedora 12 media, especially in North America and Europe (where the
magazine is published).
If we say yes to this overall deal, it will get us three things:
+ Magazines (including the 32-bit DVD) on sale at news-stands and
bookstores in North America and Europe
+ 1,000 magazines (including DVD) shipped directly to the Fedora
Project, that we can do with as we choose.
+ 8,000 DVDs shipped directly to the Fedora Project, that we can do with
as we choose.
That means 9,000 DVDS (and 1,000 magazines) that we would probably use
as the VAST MAJORITY of our media during the Fedora 12 cycle.
We would probably *not* produce a large quantity of separate LiveCDs,
which has been the habit for the past several releases.
Furthermore, the DVDs would come in plain white sleeves (not
Fedora-designed sleeves), and the artwork on the face of the DVD would
be Fedora-related, but would also have the Linux Pro Magazine logo on
it.
I would like to know how Ambassadors feel about this.
--Max
6:40 p.m.
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Max Spevack<mspevack(a)redhat.com> wrote:
[Trimming the recipient list down a little bit.]
*** AMBASSADORS: PLEASE READ THIS EMAIL ***
> Linux Pro Magazine (LPM) has proposed to make a special Fedora print issue
> for F12 - thousands of magazines out on newsstands internationally with an
> F12 DVD tucked inside. This would be very, very cool. We're trying to figure
> out whether this is possible, whether we should do it, and (if both of those
> are "yes"), how the balance of work would be distributed between the
Fedora
> community (perhaps with help from the Red Hat Brand team) and LPM.
Does anyone know the circulation or sales numbers. How many
"thousands" would get distributed via LPM?
> We'd love your thoughts and feedback. This is moving quite
rapidly (it
> first came up on Wednesday afternoon; we need to give a yes or no for F12
> next week), so I've summarized the current state of things on a project page
> at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine.
There are a few points that I'd like to add to this discussion.
(1) Nothing has been decided yet -- as a collective, we need to think about
the ideas presented by LPM, as well as the timeline that we would have to
operate under, the content that we would need to produce, etc.
(2) There is a price tag associated with this project, that (if we say yes
to it) will require us to get a bit clever with the way we plan for Fedora
12 media, especially in North America and Europe (where the magazine is
published).
If we say yes to this overall deal, it will get us three things:
+ Magazines (including the 32-bit DVD) on sale at news-stands and bookstores
in North America and Europe
+ 1,000 magazines (including DVD) shipped directly to the Fedora Project,
that we can do with as we choose.
+ 8,000 DVDs shipped directly to the Fedora Project, that we can do with as
we choose.
That means 9,000 DVDS (and 1,000 magazines) that we would probably use as
the VAST MAJORITY of our media during the Fedora 12 cycle.
These will all be 32 bit DVDs, right?
We would probably *not* produce a large quantity of separate LiveCDs,
which
has been the habit for the past several releases.
While these are still popular I really think we might be able to
substitute more USB sticks at major events as we move forward. Big
events seem to always have vendors giving away USB sticks and with
some advertising at these events we could make these bootable easily
enough for folks who would like the live image. Or we could give them
the live image on the stick for them to make their own CD with. Or in
North America they likely can download it quickly anyway.
Furthermore, the DVDs would come in plain white sleeves (not
Fedora-designed
sleeves), and the artwork on the face of the DVD would be Fedora-related,
but would also have the Linux Pro Magazine logo on it.
This doesn't bother me much if the distribution through the magazine is large.
Assuming the distribution is large my instincts are in favor of doing
this even if it limits what media we end up distributing ourselves for
one cycle. We presumably can save some funds for other uses, a good
thing, and perhaps will learn something about alternatives available
to us that we aren't yet effectively using for distribution.
John
9:21 p.m.
(Making sure we circle back to answer John's original questions as well)
Does anyone know the circulation or sales numbers. How many
"thousands" would get distributed via LPM?
That's one of two pieces of information we've been asked to keep private
at this time (the other is pricing), out of respect for LPM's business
model. I'm personally quite happy with the numbers I've seen, though.
--Mel
9:30 p.m.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Mel Chua<mel(a)redhat.com> wrote:
(Making sure we circle back to answer John's original questions
as well)
> Does anyone know the circulation or sales numbers. How many
> "thousands" would get distributed via LPM?
That's one of two pieces of information we've been asked to keep private at
this time (the other is pricing), out of respect for LPM's business model.
I'm personally quite happy with the numbers I've seen, though.
Well, it is an important factor to offset the negatives. At least to
me I can't really say I would favor this or not from an ambassador
perspective without having some idea of the magnitude.
But now I'm curious about the other piece of private information, not
what the number is but the pricing of what exactly?
John
11:14 p.m.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:30 PM, inode0<inode0(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Mel Chua<mel(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> (Making sure we circle back to answer John's original questions as well)
>
>> Does anyone know the circulation or sales numbers. How many
>> "thousands" would get distributed via LPM?
>
> That's one of two pieces of information we've been asked to keep private at
> this time (the other is pricing), out of respect for LPM's business model.
> I'm personally quite happy with the numbers I've seen, though.
Well, it is an important factor to offset the negatives. At least to
me I can't really say I would favor this or not from an ambassador
perspective without having some idea of the magnitude.
But now I'm curious about the other piece of private information, not
what the number is but the pricing of what exactly?
Let me rephrase that question. Is having Fedora featured in LPM
considered advertising in their business model? If it is then I think
the folks who are privy to that information are the only ones in a
position to make an intelligent judgment about whether this is worth
doing. As an ambassador I can say (a) it sounds like a cool thing, (b)
we could manage for a release cycle with fewer media options than we
have now, and (c) I trust those who know the details of the
arrangement to make a wise choice for the project.
John
9:50 a.m.
> But now I'm curious about the other piece of private
information, not
> what the number is but the pricing of what exactly?
Two things:
1. The cost of an individual magazine - how much it will cost to buy a
copy from a newsstand. Note that Fedora would also get a whole bunch of
copies to give to Ambassadors / other Fedora community members, so you
wouldn't necessarily have to shell out for it yourself.
2. The cost of producing the magazine - the fee LPM would get (from
Fedora/Red Hat) for providing printing, distribution, editorial, design,
layout, writing, coaching-on-all-of-the-above, etc. services.
Also, keep in mind that the decision right now isn't "print magazine
with LPM for F12" or "no print magazine ever." It's "print
magazine with
LPM for F12" or "something else." Possible values for "something
else"
include deferring the decision (and the work) to F13, continuing to do
our own thing, a whole bunch of other options not listed here, and
combinations of all of the above.
--Mel
11:42 a.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Fedora print magazine proposal from Linux Pro Magazine
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Max Spevack<mspevack(a)redhat.com> wrote:
[Trimming the recipient list down a little bit.]
*** AMBASSADORS: PLEASE READ THIS EMAIL ***
> Linux Pro Magazine (LPM) has proposed to make a special Fedora print issue
> for F12 - thousands of magazines out on newsstands internationally with an
> F12 DVD tucked inside. This would be very, very cool. We're trying to figure
> out whether this is possible, whether we should do it, and (if both of those
> are "yes"), how the balance of work would be distributed between the
Fedora
> community (perhaps with help from the Red Hat Brand team) and LPM.
>
> We'd love your thoughts and feedback. This is moving quite rapidly (it
> first came up on Wednesday afternoon; we need to give a yes or no for F12
> next week), so I've summarized the current state of things on a project page
> at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine.
There are a few points that I'd like to add to this discussion.
(1) Nothing has been decided yet -- as a collective, we need to think about
the ideas presented by LPM, as well as the timeline that we would have to
operate under, the content that we would need to produce, etc.
(2) There is a price tag associated with this project, that (if we say yes
to it) will require us to get a bit clever with the way we plan for Fedora
12 media, especially in North America and Europe (where the magazine is
published).
If we say yes to this overall deal, it will get us three things:
+ Magazines (including the 32-bit DVD) on sale at news-stands and bookstores
in North America and Europe
+ 1,000 magazines (including DVD) shipped directly to the Fedora Project,
that we can do with as we choose.
+ 8,000 DVDs shipped directly to the Fedora Project, that we can do with as
we choose.
That means 9,000 DVDS (and 1,000 magazines) that we would probably use as
the VAST MAJORITY of our media during the Fedora 12 cycle.
We would probably *not* produce a large quantity of separate LiveCDs, which
has been the habit for the past several releases.
Furthermore, the DVDs would come in plain white sleeves (not Fedora-designed
sleeves), and the artwork on the face of the DVD would be Fedora-related,
but would also have the Linux Pro Magazine logo on it.
I would like to know how Ambassadors feel about this.
In the longer term we really do want to move away from the Install DVD
to a Live DVD that has more relevant applications and content -- as
opposed to the kitchen-sink approach of the Install DVD. But
nevertheless, most people choose the DVD over Live CD because it's
perceived to be "more == better."
Given that fact, and being rational about our budget, I think it makes
sense to leverage this approach to provide most of our distributable
media. If that's the standard Install DVD, I'm OK with that. We should
ensure the general community understands the reasons for sticking with
the install DVD for purposes of this promotion.
Paul
12:04 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Fedora print magazine proposal from Linux Pro Magazine
On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:42 -0500, Paul Frields wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Max
Spevack<mspevack(a)redhat.com> wrote:
<snip>
> That means 9,000 DVDS (and 1,000 magazines) that we would
probably use as
> the VAST MAJORITY of our media during the Fedora 12 cycle.
>
> We would probably *not* produce a large quantity of separate LiveCDs, which
> has been the habit for the past several releases.
<snip>
In the longer term we really do want to move away from the Install
DVD
to a Live DVD that has more relevant applications and content -- as
opposed to the kitchen-sink approach of the Install DVD. But
nevertheless, most people choose the DVD over Live CD because it's
perceived to be "more == better."
Given that fact, and being rational about our budget, I think it makes
sense to leverage this approach to provide most of our distributable
media. If that's the standard Install DVD, I'm OK with that. We should
ensure the general community understands the reasons for sticking with
the install DVD for purposes of this promotion.
Ok, random question. Could we produce a LiveDVD image that would
include all of the packages on a normal DVD install (if you didn't
customize your choice of packages)? Or does the desktop SIG have a
LiveDVD image?
Jonathan
12:22 p.m.
New subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Fedora print magazine proposal from Linux Pro Magazine
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Jonathan Dieter<jdieter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:42 -0500, Paul Frields wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Max Spevack<mspevack(a)redhat.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > That means 9,000 DVDS (and 1,000 magazines) that we would probably use as
> > the VAST MAJORITY of our media during the Fedora 12 cycle.
> >
> > We would probably *not* produce a large quantity of separate LiveCDs, which
> > has been the habit for the past several releases.
<snip>
> In the longer term we really do want to move away from the Install DVD
> to a Live DVD that has more relevant applications and content -- as
> opposed to the kitchen-sink approach of the Install DVD. But
> nevertheless, most people choose the DVD over Live CD because it's
> perceived to be "more == better."
>
> Given that fact, and being rational about our budget, I think it makes
> sense to leverage this approach to provide most of our distributable
> media. If that's the standard Install DVD, I'm OK with that. We should
> ensure the general community understands the reasons for sticking with
> the install DVD for purposes of this promotion.
Ok, random question. Could we produce a LiveDVD image that would
include all of the packages on a normal DVD install (if you didn't
customize your choice of packages)? Or does the desktop SIG have a
LiveDVD image?
Jonathan
It would probably be much larger than what would on the regular DVD.
As in 8GB versus 4 (especially if Live DVD's have to have src.rpms on
them for licensing reasons.)
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning
9:04 p.m.
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009, Max Spevack wrote:
(1) Nothing has been decided yet -- as a collective, we need to think
about the ideas presented by LPM, as well as the timeline that we
would have to operate under, the content that we would need to
produce, etc.
After reading up on the various threads over the weekend, and discussing
with Mel, Paul, and folks in the Fedora Marketing meeting today, we
decided that FOR THE TIME BEING, we are going to pass on this
opportunity.
There are several reasons why, which I discussed during today's Fedora
Marketing meeting.
For those who would like to read that over, please see here, starting at
20:39:27 in the log.
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-08/fedora-meeting...
As always, any comments are welcome. I really like the way this entire
idea was discussed, considered, etc. in (what I consider) a very public
and transparent way.
Thanks,
Max
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10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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inode0 -
Jonathan Dieter -
Max Spevack -
Mel Chua -
Paul W. Frields -
Stephen John Smoogen