5:08 a.m.
Hi all,
I've added to this post the Debian Med, OpenSuse Medical, Neuro Debian
teams, MedFloss manager and the EFMI LIFOSS WG.
Also created a new thread.
Le 25 novembre 2011 10:24, Simon Slater <pyevet(a)iinet.net.au> a écrit :
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:55:15 Sebastian Hilbert wrote:
> On Friday, November 25, 2011 02:05:11 AM Simon Slater wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:02:42 susmit shannigrahi wrote:
> But if you really want to make a difference for healthcare put
effort into
> getting people from different distributions together to share their work.
> Currently we are duplicating work in Debian-med, Fedora-medical and
> openSUSE- medical. What a waste of human ressources.
I fully agree to this. We should work together. There are lots of
projects but no (visible) joined effort.
Packaging can be quite different distro to distro but the main work
(package selection, upstream contact and management, configuration
helpers, license analysis...) can be shared.
We can share our competence whatever are our difference (of Linux
distro and project).
>
Any common forums existing at the moment?
Not yet already.
As a french MD, open source developper and Linux user I'd like to help
on any work that can lead to a global "Linux Medical Team" effort
(including nurses, dentists, pharmacists...).
Any comment ?
--
Eric Maeker, MD (FR)
http://www.freemedforms.com/
http://www.ericmaeker.fr/
6:21 a.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:08:38PM +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:
I've added to this post the Debian Med, OpenSuse Medical, Neuro
Debian
teams, MedFloss manager and the EFMI LIFOSS WG.
Also created a new thread.
...
>> But if you really want to make a difference for healthcare
put effort into
>> getting people from different distributions together to share their work.
>> Currently we are duplicating work in Debian-med, Fedora-medical and
>> openSUSE- medical. What a waste of human ressources.
While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
not achieve anything tangible.
If you want to make a difference for healthcare work with a
group of doctors and technically help them solve local
medical needs. Set them up with access to evidence based
clinical resources. Maybe help vaccinate a few thousand
children in a rural area.
I think your FreeDiams prescriber is a perfect example.
Work on making it the best-of-breed FLOSS drug information
database. *That* would make a huge difference. Everywhere.
Today.
Karsten
--
GPG key ID E4071346 @ gpg-keyserver.de
E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346
10:05 a.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
Le 25 novembre 2011 13:21, Karsten Hilbert <Karsten.Hilbert(a)gmx.net> a écrit :
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:08:38PM +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:
> I've added to this post the Debian Med, OpenSuse Medical, Neuro Debian
> teams, MedFloss manager and the EFMI LIFOSS WG.
> Also created a new thread.
> >> Currently we are duplicating work in Debian-med, Fedora-medical and
> >> openSUSE- medical. What a waste of human ressources.
While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
not achieve anything tangible.
Not sure, Debian Med is getting bigger and bigger, MedFloss too.
May be we can go one step further !
There are volonteers but they scattered on multiple projects while a
more unifying project can arise.
I think your FreeDiams prescriber is a perfect example.
One little piece of the edifice only...
--
Eric Maeker, MD (FR)
http://www.freemedforms.com/
http://www.ericmaeker.fr/
10:32 a.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:05:31PM +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:
> While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
> a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
> not achieve anything tangible.
Not sure, Debian Med is getting bigger and bigger, MedFloss too.
May be we can go one step further !
There are volonteers but they scattered on multiple projects while a
more unifying project can arise.
What would be the precise, medically relevant goal of this project ?
Without one it'd be useless.
Karsten
--
GPG key ID E4071346 @ gpg-keyserver.de
E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346
1:11 p.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
On 11/25/11 5:32 PM, Karsten Hilbert wrote:
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:05:31PM +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:
>> While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
>> a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
>> not achieve anything tangible.
>
> Not sure, Debian Med is getting bigger and bigger, MedFloss too.
> May be we can go one step further !
> There are volonteers but they scattered on multiple projects while a
> more unifying project can arise.
What would be the precise, medically relevant goal of this project ?
I fully agree with Eric and would question if we would need a clearly
defined medical relevant goal for this endeavor.
First of all I would propose a more general working title: "Free and
Open Source Medical Taskforce". Do we just want to limit our
collaborative efforts to Linux? Also not-so-free OS can run great FLOSS
software and they are still the most widely used in health care.
Is the scope of the task force primarily packaging? Or has it a wider
definition?
For packaging I tried to provide at least some help through
Medfloss.org. Per project you can specify if it is available through a
Linux distro. Out of this a list is created that shows all projects at
Medfloss.org that are not yet available through a specific distribution:
Debian (http://www.medfloss.org/node/350), Fedora
(http://www.medfloss.org/node/351), OpenSUSE
(http://www.medfloss.org/node/352).
Not sure if you could think of Medfloss.org of being extended in such a
way that it will support better and more effectively any packaging
efforts. At least I can state that I would be more than open for any
suggestions and willing to provide direct support or help others to get
the features they want in Medfloss.org.
What would be the data that shall be available through a central forum
or information space?
Cheers,
Holger
Without one it'd be useless.
Karsten
1:18 p.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 08:11:12PM +0100, Holger Schmuhl wrote:
Is the scope of the task force primarily packaging? Or has it a wider
definition?
I for myself can perfectly fill my spare time with packaging und Quality
Assurance of the packages. For me it would not be very attractive to
cut from this time for something that is not targeting a specific
downloadable product.
Kind regards
Andreas.
--
http://fam-tille.de
2:54 a.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
Le 25 nov. 2011 à 20:11, Holger Schmuhl a écrit :
Free and Open Source Medical Taskforce
Hello,
I propose the creation of a common mailing list such as "Free and Open Source Medical
Taskforce <opensourcemedical(a)XXX.XX>" where all teamsdistro, and other open
source medical webportal (medfloss, linuxmednews...) are automatically subscribed.
List that can be registered in each portal of each teams and also here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_healthcare_software
To ensure its visibility.
This list can be the central place to discuss the common tasks of our different projects,
like:
- medical or related projects to include/reject...,
- common reviewing of apps,
- licensing problems around some projects,
- upstream contact,
- central information about new release and version (may be package too)
...
I suggest someone to take the management of this list. The "manager" will be the
one who contact each upstream of our medicals&related project to subscribe and
discuss. If no one wants this role, I can take it.
That should not be that hard to do and can be a good start to any collaboration.
Ideas ? Comments ? Suggestions ? Oppositions ?
Thanks
-----
Eric Maeker, MD (Fr)
http://www.freemedforms.com
http://www.ericmaeker.fr
1:39 p.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
Le 25 novembre 2011 17:32, Karsten Hilbert <Karsten.Hilbert(a)gmx.net> a écrit :
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:05:31PM +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:
> > While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
> > a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
> > not achieve anything tangible.
>
> Not sure, Debian Med is getting bigger and bigger, MedFloss too.
> May be we can go one step further !
> There are volonteers but they scattered on multiple projects while a
> more unifying project can arise.
What would be the precise, medically relevant goal of this project ?
Without one it'd be useless.
The very basic reflexion can be the following.
This kind of project involves a too heterogeneous population that we
need to precised in more details. I propose two very simple dichotomy:
* The first dichotomy:
- the end user
- the developper
* In user/developper we have another dichotomy :
- working in a (or for a) medical area
- not working in a (or for a) medical area
This lead to four profiles that have different needs and wishes.
--
Eric Maeker, MD (FR)
http://www.freemedforms.com/
http://www.ericmaeker.fr/
6:35 a.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
:) This is quite some cross-posting.
On 11/25/2011 08:39 PM, Eric Maeker wrote:
Le 25 novembre 2011 17:32, Karsten Hilbert
<Karsten.Hilbert(a)gmx.net> a écrit :
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:05:31PM +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:
>
>>> While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
>>> a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
>>> not achieve anything tangible.
>>
>> Not sure, Debian Med is getting bigger and bigger, MedFloss too.
>> May be we can go one step further !
>> There are volonteers but they scattered on multiple projects while a
>> more unifying project can arise.
>
> What would be the precise, medically relevant goal of this project ?
>
> Without one it'd be useless.
The very basic reflexion can be the following.
This kind of project involves a too heterogeneous population that we
need to precised in more details. I propose two very simple dichotomy:
* The first dichotomy:
- the end user
- the developper
* In user/developper we have another dichotomy :
- working in a (or for a) medical area
- not working in a (or for a) medical area
This lead to four profiles that have different needs and wishes.
There are of course idealistic developers that we can guide to find
themselves a place in the biomedical world. Yes. Will work. Somewhat.
But what we truly want are collaborative full timers that work
for maintaining something locally and have difficulties in separating
local adjustments (which they are paid for) with long term development
(which they happily do) - of the software, of local students and of
external volunteers. So, get the Open Source bits used in the
real world and with some luck we are set. <rant>The actual platform
(I mean Linux/Mac/Windows, not the Linux flavour) should be a non-issue,
at least when we take that Freedom of our software seriously.</rant>
My personal perception of a Linux distribution's role is that of
a connector of upstream developers among themselves but of course
also between them and their creative users. Traditional end user
support I would happily see covered by our distros' commercial
variants, which is a bit far from happening, I presume. This is why
I am so excited about the participation of the most-Open-Sourcy company
Eagle Genomics in our January Sprint. Whoever has a problem can talk
to them about their biomedical or biochemical issue and have a partner
who truly knows how to address things for consultancy or outsourcing.
This is for the long term benefit of us all.
The Open Source pure medical side is far less
developed from my perception, since the field never got that enormous
public funding for Open Source developments. After all, it is about
individuals' data and not about public data, but I know I can ask
Karsten and Sebastian about everything and they provide Open Source
solutions for local doctors themselves. Would be great to see that
dispersed nationwide, actually.
To conclude and to give that interaction of upstream developers some
extra life, I would like to quickly mention some personal weekend
interests of mine:
* save energy and increase performance for routine bioinformatics
and cheminformatics services with a push of FPGA computing
- ztex.de has its Open Source API in Debian
- sciengines.com present theirs at our Sprint
* get Linux distros closer to volunteer distributed computing
- BOINC server package with functional wrapper
- manual proof of concept for AutoDock
- Debian package combining the two stalled (any takers?)
* get bioinformatics workflow tools to work with the Linux distros
so we can bring public web services with local developments/needs
together more easily
- Taverna joins the Sprint, collaboration on specification
of external tools
- Tim works on packaging Galaxy
- mgltools-vision is in
- Laszlo brought Predictprotein.org to Debian
* Cloud computing with Debian
- Eucalyptus.com joins our Sprint
- (Cloud)Bio-Linux organises our Sprint
And then there are various biological ambitions of mine for which
I plan using those technologies. I once blogged about them, nothing
overly tangible, yet. And everyone brings something in, from which
I happily benefit. You may observe that above list contains nothing
special about Debian. What is special is us is the community. And
when you follow the discussions of mine with the Google Summer of Code
organisers of Debian, then you will find that Debian does not like
above projects too much. They kicked them out. Google then adopted
the BOINC+AutoDock one themselves in their academic partnering
organisation of the GOSPO itself, for which they then got a big
acknowledgement in the accompanying paper for the PDP 2012. So, we
thank the Debian Society for co-funding our Sprint. I think we give
quite something back. To Debian, its derivatives, and from above
list alone you see that also the other distros immediately profit
from our event and from our community.
Your cross-posting is an indication that our community is indeed
such: a community. I suggest to wait with any explicit separation for
Linux flavours until you receive too many "off-topic" complains. With
Debian, we have over a decade kept the Bioinformatics <-> Medical
Informatics divide. We are about to close that next yearish with
lab information management systems, I presume. And the Debian <->
Ubuntu divide we have closed last year, I think. Let's see what
happens respective the .deb <-> .rpm divide. I do not say there
are no differences or even difficulties, but those we mostly know
or they do not hinder or collaboration on so many fruitful pieces
of software.
Best,
Steffen
4:04 a.m.
New subject: Creating a global "Linux Medical Team" / biomedical brand
Hi,
Just wanted to share
http://nebc.nerc.ac.uk/tools/bio-linux/bio-linux-6.0
interesting someone used the same name and created something for openSUSE
They called it openSalux and call themselves BioLinux
http://susestudio.com/a/QhsNUm/open-salux
This is the kind of stuff that is not supposed to happen.
Just one example. How is some outsider looking for an easy way to try great
software supposed to diffentiate ?
Regards,
Sebastian
12:50 p.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 01:21:18PM +0100, Karsten Hilbert wrote:
While I agree the logical and lofty goal would be to create
a "Linux Medical Taskforce" I also know that doing so will
not achieve anything tangible.
Over the > 10 years of Debian Med I observed several metaprojects that
tried to some extend creating a tasks force or uniting medical care
FLOSS projects. I also learned that a lot of these projects did not
survived. My personal (unproven) theory is that the reason why those
projects become orphaned at some point in time is that they are not
bound to some certain code to maintain but rather end up in bits of
communication which finally do not lead to a certain result because
every participant finally keeps on working on his own project without
gaining much from the common discussion.
The difference of Debian Med is that there is a certain amount of
maintained code which leads to a new "product" and becomes some use.
Another difference is that it does not (strongly) depend from the
cooperation of all those different upstream maintainers who might have
strong focus on their own project and are not willing / able to spend
their time in those meta projects. If its free we just take it (and
might ask for help as any other user might do) and include it into
Debian. In most cases upstream is happy about this and supports our
attempt because we are adding a measurable extra value to the project.
The big advantage we approached with the strategy to stay inside Debian
is that we were able to increase the "run-over-by-bus-factor". Just
plugging into a distribution which simply survives ensures that our
meta project will survive even if some people might go.
Kind regards
Andreas.
--
http://fam-tille.de
8:40 a.m.
New subject: [FreeMedForms] Creating a global "Linux Medical Team"
peux tu préciser car ça part de partout et j'ai du mal à suivre.
Cordialement
pmd
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:08:38 +0100
Eric Maeker <eric.maeker(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I've added to this post the Debian Med, OpenSuse Medical, Neuro Debian
teams, MedFloss manager and the EFMI LIFOSS WG.
Also created a new thread.
Le 25 novembre 2011 10:24, Simon Slater <pyevet(a)iinet.net.au> a écrit :
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:55:15 Sebastian Hilbert wrote:
>> On Friday, November 25, 2011 02:05:11 AM Simon Slater wrote:
>> > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:02:42 susmit shannigrahi wrote:
>> But if you really want to make a difference for healthcare put effort into
>> getting people from different distributions together to share their work.
>> Currently we are duplicating work in Debian-med, Fedora-medical and
>> openSUSE- medical. What a waste of human ressources.
I fully agree to this. We should work together. There are lots of
projects but no (visible) joined effort.
Packaging can be quite different distro to distro but the main work
(package selection, upstream contact and management, configuration
helpers, license analysis...) can be shared.
We can share our competence whatever are our difference (of Linux
distro and project).
>>
> Any common forums existing at the moment?
Not yet already.
As a french MD, open source developper and Linux user I'd like to help
on any work that can lead to a global "Linux Medical Team" effort
(including nurses, dentists, pharmacists...).
Any comment ?
--
Eric Maeker, MD (FR)
http://www.freemedforms.com/
http://www.ericmaeker.fr/
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11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Andreas Tille -
Eric Maeker -
Holger Schmuhl -
Karsten Hilbert -
pierre-marie desombre -
Sebastian Hilbert -
Steffen Möller