meetingminutes October 2013

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31 participants
53 discussions

Fedora Docs Meeting Summary for 21OCT2013
by Pete Travis 21 Oct '13

21 Oct '13

==================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings ==================================================================================================== Meeting started by randomuser at 14:00:42 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-21/fedora_docs.2013… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (randomuser, 14:00:42) * Release Notes / Changes (randomuser, 14:04:28) * Guide Status (randomuser, 14:16:17) * Publican status (randomuser, 14:25:05) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3860 (randomuser, 14:28:49) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5214 (randomuser, 14:32:58) * ACTION: jhradilek to poke rudi about fedora docs infrastructure (randomuser, 14:34:53) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (randomuser, 14:36:45) * LINK: http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84 (randomuser, 14:36:49) * there is a bug for every Change against the filed release notes and they all would ideally get QA (randomuser, 14:37:54) * many tickets have a link to atomic commits for easy review (randomuser, 14:38:33) * open floor (randomuser, 14:41:42) * beta readiness meeting on thursday (randomuser, 14:42:40) Meeting ended at 14:48:48 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jhradilek to poke rudi about fedora docs infrastructure Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jhradilek * jhradilek to poke rudi about fedora docs infrastructure * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * randomuser (54) * jjmcd (10) * Sparks (9) * pbokoc_ (9) * jreznik (9) * Capesteve (9) * jhradilek (6) * zodbot (3) * yruseva (1) * pkovar (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- -- Pete Travis - Fedora Docs Project Leader - 'randomuser' on freenode - immanetize(a)fedoraproject.org

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Fedora Kernel Meeting Minutes for Oct 18, 2013
by Josh Boyer 18 Oct '13

18 Oct '13

============================== #fedora-meeting: Fedora Kernel ============================== Meeting started by jwb at 18:00:25 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-18/fedora-kernel.20… . Meeting summary --------------- * init (jwb, 18:00:25) * f18/f19/f20 (jwb, 18:02:16) * f18 3.11.4 rebase coming soon (jwb, 18:04:25) * f19/f20 both on 3.11.5 (jwb, 18:04:32) * ACTION: jwb to add fix for big_keys quota issue to F20 (jwb, 18:06:22) * ACTION: jforbes will do a mass bug update for f18 asking people to test with 3.11 (jwb, 18:06:51) * rawhide (jwb, 18:09:06) * rawhide at 3.12-rc5-gitX (jwb, 18:12:18) * ACTION: jwb to look at adding win8 backlight issue patches from 3.13 queue (jwb, 18:12:35) * open floor (jwb, 18:16:50) * LINK: https://github.com/kholia/ReproducibleBuilds (nirik, 18:19:59) Meeting ended at 18:31:45 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jwb to add fix for big_keys quota issue to F20 * jforbes will do a mass bug update for f18 asking people to test with 3.11 * jwb to look at adding win8 backlight issue patches from 3.13 queue Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jforbes * jforbes will do a mass bug update for f18 asking people to test with 3.11 * jwb * jwb to add fix for big_keys quota issue to F20 * jwb to look at adding win8 backlight issue patches from 3.13 queue * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jwb (55) * nirik (22) * brunowolff (17) * jforbes (12) * zodbot (5) * pbrobinson (2) * davej (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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F20 Beta Blocker Bug Review #4 Minutes
by Adam Williamson 18 Oct '13

18 Oct '13

================================================ #fedora-blocker-review: f20beta-blocker-review-4 ================================================ Meeting started by kparal at 16:02:28 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-10-16/f20beta-b… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (kparal, 16:02:39) * Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs. (kparal, 16:06:19) * We'll be following the process outlined at: (kparal, 16:06:19) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting (kparal, 16:06:19) * The bugs up for review today are available at: (kparal, 16:06:22) * LINK: http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current (kparal, 16:06:23) * Introduction (kparal, 16:06:34) * Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs. (kparal, 16:06:45) * We'll be following the process outlined at: (kparal, 16:06:45) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting (kparal, 16:06:45) * The bugs up for review today are available at: (kparal, 16:06:45) * LINK: http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current (kparal, 16:06:46) * The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at: (kparal, 16:06:53) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_20_Beta_Release_Criteria (kparal, 16:07:03) * Up for review today, we have: (kparal, 16:07:15) * 4 Proposed Blockers (kparal, 16:07:22) * 8 Accepted Blockers (kparal, 16:07:23) * 5 Proposed Freeze Exceptions (kparal, 16:07:23) * 3 Accepted Freeze Exceptions (kparal, 16:07:23) * (1017435) Anaconda uses LVM when Standard Partition is selected in text mode (kparal, 16:08:09) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1017435 (kparal, 16:08:10) * Proposed Blocker, anaconda, MODIFIED (kparal, 16:08:10) * AGREED: 1013586 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F20 beta release criterion for text mode and standard partitions: "When using the guided partitioning flow, the installer must be able to: Complete an installation using any combination of disk configuration options it allows the user to select " (kparal, 16:11:13) * (1017977) FormatDestroyError: error wiping old signatures from /dev/vda2: 1 (kparal, 16:11:34) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1017977 (kparal, 16:11:34) * Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW (kparal, 16:11:34) * AGREED: 1017977 - RejectedBlocker - This is rejected as a blocker until someone else can also reproduce the issue or the reporter can provide us with a clear steps that would help us reproduce the issue. (kparal, 16:18:30) * (1019541) unknown install shows up as entire disks instead of mount points of selected disks (kparal, 16:18:42) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1019541 (kparal, 16:18:42) * Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW (kparal, 16:18:42) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1019541#c8 (adamw, 16:25:25) * ACTION: kparal to test or delegate 1019541 with valid partition tables and previous BIOS install and no ESP booted with UEFI (kparal, 16:53:27) * (1019500) device factories need to set a default name if empty name given for defined device (kparal, 16:54:08) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1019500 (kparal, 16:54:08) * Proposed Blocker, python-blivet, ASSIGNED (kparal, 16:54:08) * AGREED: 1019500 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F20 beta release criterion for RAID installs with unnamed array: "When using the custom partitioning flow, the installer must be able to: Reject or disallow invalid disk and volume configurations without crashing." (kparal, 17:06:12) * (1016801) "Don't install the latest software updates" box is unchecked by default, can't be checked permanently (kparal, 17:07:12) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1016801 (kparal, 17:07:13) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, anaconda, ASSIGNED (kparal, 17:07:13) * AGREED: 1016801 - AcceptedFreezeException - Updates download checkbox might be an important feature for some people and doesn't present large risk. It can't be fixed post-release. A fix would be considered as a freeze exception. (kparal, 17:16:38) * (1016566) Installing a package silently fails if the GPG key for the yum repo is not installed (kparal, 17:16:48) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1016566 (kparal, 17:16:48) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gnome-software, ASSIGNED (kparal, 17:16:48) * AGREED: 1016566 - AcceptedFreezeException - Installing software using gnome-software is an important feature and we will consider this fix even after freeze. If anyone finds out that update (not install) is not working with a missing gpg key, please propose this as a blocker bug. (kparal, 17:28:18) * (1011714) btrfs scrub finds csum corruption after btrfs balance (kparal, 17:28:27) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1011714 (kparal, 17:28:27) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, kernel, POST (kparal, 17:28:27) * AGREED: 1011714 - AcceptedFreezeException - We would like to avoid data corruption on btrfs. A patch is ready and seems to be safe. We will consider it past freeze. (kparal, 17:36:50) * (1017683) Invalid UID in persistent keyring name (kparal, 17:37:36) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1017683 (kparal, 17:37:36) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, kernel, MODIFIED (kparal, 17:37:36) * AGREED: 1017683 - AcceptedFreezeException - This is a serious issue for Kerberos users. A fix would be considered past freeze. (kparal, 17:44:05) * (1012141) [abrt] pulseaudio-4.0-4.gita89ca.fc20: core_free: Process /usr/bin/pulseaudio was killed by signal 6 (SIGABRT) (kparal, 17:45:23) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1012141 (kparal, 17:45:23) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, pulseaudio, NEW (kparal, 17:45:23) * AGREED: 1012141 - AcceptedFreezeException - This is a visible and annoying crash. An early and safe fix would be considered past freeze. (kparal, 17:51:27) * (1016959) ValueError: Cannot remove non-leaf device 'btrfs.14' (kparal, 17:53:39) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1016959 (kparal, 17:53:39) * Accepted Blocker, anaconda, NEW (kparal, 17:53:39) * this is waiting for developers action (kparal, 17:55:12) * We don't know whether this is going to be fixed before go/no-go, dlehman is busy with other bugs (kparal, 18:02:20) * (1010495) Apple Mac EFI: you have not created a bootloader stage1 target device (kparal, 18:02:46) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010495 (kparal, 18:02:46) * Accepted Blocker, anaconda, ASSIGNED (kparal, 18:02:46) * the current patch is incomplete and we're waiting for bcl to refine the patch and submit it (kparal, 18:04:20) * (986575) installer fails to apply lower bound to resize requests in custom spoke (kparal, 18:05:17) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=986575 (kparal, 18:05:17) * Accepted Blocker, anaconda, ASSIGNED (kparal, 18:05:17) * this is a fairly simple fix, but it hasn't be implemented yet. waiting on developers (kparal, 18:07:42) * (1013586) SizeNotPositiveError: spec= param must be >=0 (kparal, 18:08:42) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013586 (kparal, 18:08:42) * Accepted Blocker, anaconda, NEW (kparal, 18:08:42) * this is still waiting for developer action. the fix is expected to be invasive and affect many parts of the installer (kparal, 18:12:27) * AGREED: 1013586 - AcceptedBlocker - We move this blocker from Beta to Final, because we have an explicit shrinking criterion there, as it was originally intended: "Any installer mechanism for resizing storage volumes must correctly attempt the requested operation.". If the fix is ready in time, please propose as Beta FE. (kparal, 18:31:06) * (1000891) DVD is oversized (larger than 4.7 GB) (kparal, 18:31:19) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1000891 (kparal, 18:31:19) * Accepted Blocker, distribution, MODIFIED (kparal, 18:31:19) * this seems to be a pungi bug, waiting for dgilmore (kparal, 18:33:22) * (1015234) F20 Beta TC1 ARM disk images unable to find root filesystem (kparal, 18:35:12) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1015234 (kparal, 18:35:12) * Accepted Blocker, dracut, ASSIGNED (kparal, 18:35:12) * discussion is still ongoing as how to fix this properly. it's not clear whether this is fixed with the latest compose. it would be a good idea to ask the reporter to retest (kparal, 18:38:59) * ACTION: adamw to ask Harald and Dennis about bug 1015234 (kparal, 18:39:25) * (1013767) rootfs on thinp not found, startup failure (kparal, 18:39:54) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013767 (kparal, 18:39:55) * Accepted Blocker, dracut, NEW (kparal, 18:39:55) * the developers are working on this, nothing to do from QA perspective (kparal, 18:42:08) * (1013800) devicetree.py:1293:handleVgLvs:DeviceTreeError: failed to look up thin pool (kparal, 18:42:42) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013800 (kparal, 18:42:42) * Accepted Blocker, python-blivet, ASSIGNED (kparal, 18:42:42) * patch is ready for this one. dlehman needs to submit it (kparal, 18:44:57) * Open Discussion <your bugs here> (kparal, 18:46:38) Meeting ended at 18:48:41 UTC. Action Items ------------ * kparal to test or delegate 1019541 with valid partition tables and previous BIOS install and no ESP booted with UEFI * adamw to ask Harald and Dennis about bug 1015234 Action Items, by person ----------------------- * adamw * adamw to ask Harald and Dennis about bug 1015234 * kparal * kparal to test or delegate 1019541 with valid partition tables and previous BIOS install and no ESP booted with UEFI * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * kparal (290) * adamw (205) * tflink (121) * dlehman (49) * roshi (28) * jwb (24) * jreznik (24) * pwhalen (10) * Viking-Ice (10) * mkrizek (7) * zodbot (6) * satellit (3) * satellit_RPi (3) * leigh123linux (2) * narekb (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin DOT net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Summary/Minutes from today's Fedora Infrastructure meeting (2013-10-17)
by Kevin Fenzi 17 Oct '13

17 Oct '13

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2013-10-17) ============================================ Meeting started by nirik at 19:00:11 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-17/infrastructure.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * welcome y'all (nirik, 19:00:12) * New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks (nirik, 19:03:12) * Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:05:08) * askbot update in staging moving along, exposing some more issues for upstream (nirik, 19:05:26) * work started on postaja, a Fedora Hosted self-service app (puiterwijk, 19:05:44) * looking into fossil scm (nirik, 19:15:14) * Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:15:41) * Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:19:50) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ (nirik, 19:19:50) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:22:03) Meeting ended at 19:29:23 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (36) * puiterwijk (22) * smooge (7) * anshprat (7) * zodbot (5) * abadger1999 (4) * bitlord (3) * jsmith (2) * frankieonuonga (2) * mirek (2) * relrod_znc (1) * lmacken (1) * ausmarton (1) * Xeladem (1) * tflink (1) * croberts (1) * threebean (0) * mdomsch (0) * pingou (0) * relrod (0) * dgilmore (0) -- 19:00:11 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2013-10-17) 19:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 17 19:00:11 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:12 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure 19:00:12 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all 19:00:12 <nirik> #chair smooge relrod nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean pingou puiterwijk 19:00:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 19:00:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge threebean 19:00:41 * anshprat here 19:00:43 * puiterwijk is around-ish (will be around in a bit) 19:01:04 * Xeladem waves 19:01:08 * bitlord will watch what is happening 19:01:17 * lmacken 19:01:35 * tflink is lurking 19:01:44 * croberts waves but afk for a few mins 19:01:56 <smooge> hello 19:02:10 * mirek waves 19:03:12 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks 19:03:23 * ausmarton is here 19:03:31 <nirik> any new folks? or apprentices with questions or comments? 19:03:38 * relrod_znc here (sorry, bit late) 19:04:47 * anshprat still with askbot 0.7.49 upgrade on staging , looks like will again be going back to upstream with more issues.. 19:05:00 <nirik> ok. thats what stg is for. ;) 19:05:08 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion 19:05:24 * frankieonuonga is here 19:05:26 <nirik> #info askbot update in staging moving along, exposing some more issues for upstream 19:05:32 <nirik> any other applications news? 19:05:44 <puiterwijk> #info work started on postaja, a Fedora Hosted self-service app 19:06:13 <puiterwijk> if anyone wants to help, feel free to ping me 19:06:17 <anshprat> nirik: coming week is kinda tied up for me, so will mostly get back on it more after 10/23.. 19:06:59 <anshprat> puiterwijk: amy read up material? what is it etc? 19:07:35 <mirek> I still have problems with seting up new copr on copr-dev (a lot of small issues). Once finished I will reinstall copr.cloud 19:07:36 <anshprat> s/ 10/23 / 10/26 19:08:02 <puiterwijk> anshprat: haven't written/published docs yet, will be in the push of tonight. It's mainly going to be for creating new fhosted projects, repos, and maintaining them 19:08:40 <nirik> anshprat: ok. 19:08:52 <bitlord> anything a n00b can help/test, I'm interested :D 19:09:04 <anshprat> puiterwijk: sure, will get back to you once I get free time. 19:09:07 <puiterwijk> bitlord: sure, ping me after the meeting on #fedora-apps 19:09:25 <puiterwijk> anshprat: cool 19:09:57 <puiterwijk> also, as part of this project, I would like to discuss adding fossil SCM to fhosted 19:10:19 <bitlord> puiterwijk, OK ;-) 19:10:51 <nirik> puiterwijk: is it packaged yet? 19:10:58 <puiterwijk> .whoowns fossil 19:10:59 <zodbot> puiterwijk: puiterwijk 19:11:01 <puiterwijk> nirik: ^ :) 19:11:29 <nirik> ok. are you thinking this as a possible replacement for our trac/etc? 19:11:40 <puiterwijk> so a short summary: Fossil is a distributed SCM not unlike git, but with built-in, distributed ticket management and wiki 19:11:48 <nirik> it looks interesting 19:12:08 <puiterwijk> nirik: well, it is its own SCM, so it won't work as a front-end for git etc, but we could make it get a lot more traction 19:12:23 <puiterwijk> (while there's github for git, etc, there's not many trustworthy hosts for fossil) 19:12:57 <puiterwijk> there's some bigger projects using it so far, the most famous one being sqlite 19:13:25 <nirik> ok, perhaps we could toss up a cloud one for people to play with? 19:13:51 <puiterwijk> I am planning to do that together with postaja, so they can also test the self-service 19:14:02 <nirik> ok 19:15:01 <nirik> cool 19:15:14 <nirik> #info looking into fossil scm 19:15:41 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion 19:15:53 <nirik> Not too much to report this week off hand... since we are in freeze. 19:16:48 <smooge> did you get snow? 19:17:03 <nirik> not recently. ;) 19:17:15 <smooge> we got some in the mountains on freeze day 19:17:35 <smooge> I am doing an inventory of hardware we have 19:17:38 <nirik> approprate. ;) 19:17:47 <smooge> and try to figure out what we will be replacing next fiscal year 19:17:49 <anshprat> fedora guiding the global weather soon :D ;) 19:19:01 <puiterwijk> well, it's going to be 20 degrees here next week, so that's really region-bound :) 19:19:21 <puiterwijk> (centrigrade) 19:19:39 <nirik> indeed. 19:19:50 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 19:19:50 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ 19:20:01 <nirik> anything upcoming folks want to schedule or note? 19:20:19 <nirik> we are frozen until 2013-10-29 (or later if beta slips) 19:22:03 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:22:09 <nirik> any items for open floor? 19:22:28 <jsmith> nirik: I'll have passwords to you by the end of the day for two rebuilt dedicated servers 19:22:33 <abadger1999> I'm going to ansiblefest SF next week. 19:22:35 <jsmith> nirik: Sorry for the wait :-( 19:22:44 <nirik> jsmith: oh yeah, was going to ask about those! thanks! 19:22:56 <nirik> abadger1999: yeah, take notes! say hi to folks 19:23:03 <abadger1999> won't be around tuesday, wed. Can ask ansible questions if you have any. 19:23:07 <abadger1999> Will do :-0 19:23:08 <abadger1999> :-) 19:23:18 <puiterwijk> I'm going to T-DOSE next weekend 19:23:27 <puiterwijk> (26-27 oct) 19:23:46 <smooge> abadger1999, look forward to the notes 19:23:58 <smooge> puiterwijk, what is that? 19:24:46 <puiterwijk> smooge: FOSS conference in Eindhoven, The Netherlands 19:24:57 <puiterwijk> where I will be hosting a Fedora booth with Ruben 19:26:43 <nirik> cool 19:27:43 <frankieonuonga> wish you the best 19:27:56 <puiterwijk> thanks 19:28:21 <nirik> ok, if we have nothing else we can call it a quick meeting this week and close out in a minute. ;) 19:29:07 <puiterwijk> nirik: that's what happens if there's so few people from the core team in a freeze week :) 19:29:12 <nirik> :) 19:29:22 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 19:29:23 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Summary/Minutes from today's irc support sig meeting (2013-10-17)
by Kevin Fenzi 17 Oct '13

17 Oct '13

============================================= #fedora-meeting: IRC Support SIG (2013-10-17) ============================================= Meeting started by nirik at 18:00:00 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-17/irc-support-sig.… . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 18:00:01) * Week in review (nirik, 18:06:24) * ticket #161 Kudos (nirik, 18:10:03) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/161 (nirik, 18:10:23) * ticket #162 Fedora supporter(?) decides I shall not file a Bug (nirik, 18:12:06) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/162 (nirik, 18:12:18) * ticket #163 Offensive behavior - fenris02 (nirik, 18:28:20) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/163 (nirik, 18:28:31) * Open Floor (nirik, 18:43:10) Meeting ended at 18:48:23 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (59) * thomasj (35) * EvilBob (28) * Southern_Gentlem (20) * fenris02 (4) * zodbot (3) -- 18:00:00 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2013-10-17) 18:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 17 18:00:00 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:01 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig 18:00:01 <nirik> #topic init process 18:00:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig' 18:00:29 <nirik> anyone around for a irc support sig meeting? 18:00:41 * thomasj is here 18:02:32 <thomasj> not much folks around 18:02:58 <nirik> yeah, seems not. 18:03:19 * EvilBob 18:04:07 * nirik will wait a few more for folks 18:06:13 <nirik> ok, I guess we can go forward and if not enough input on tickets punt them a week. ;) 18:06:24 <nirik> #topic Week in review 18:06:35 <nirik> any items from the previous week? new common bugs, etc? 18:06:42 <nirik> it's been pretty quiet this week, IMHO 18:06:58 <EvilBob> fedbot status? 18:07:29 <nirik> working on it. not sure whats going on. ;( 18:07:32 <EvilBob> K 18:07:39 <thomasj> i was reading up on fedora.next all week, didn't pay much attention to the channel 18:07:52 <nirik> it's getting timeouts connecting. odd. 18:09:12 <nirik> ok, moving on to tickets then... or should we punt them to next week with more people around? 18:09:45 <EvilBob> There is a kudos ticket we can clear 18:09:58 <nirik> sure. 18:10:03 <nirik> #topic ticket #161 Kudos 18:10:23 <EvilBob> The ticket about "Someone told me not to file a bug" should be just sh!t canned 18:10:23 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/161 18:10:41 <nirik> good work to swa_work there. ;) 18:12:06 <nirik> #topic ticket #162 Fedora supporter(?) decides I shall not file a Bug 18:12:18 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/162 18:12:25 <nirik> so, two things on this one... 18:12:32 * thomasj reading 18:12:51 <nirik> 1. I don't understand how they think someone saying something on irc has any effect on if they can file a bug or not. 18:13:13 <nirik> 2. I think fenris02 needs to learn to disengage better from people who he doesn't wish to continue helping. 18:13:30 <thomasj> +1 18:13:47 * nirik guesses fenris02 isn't around right now. 18:14:05 <EvilBob> It's meeting time, why would he be? 18:14:10 <EvilBob> ;) 18:14:15 <EvilBob> </sarcasm> 18:14:33 * Southern_Gentlem 18:15:08 <nirik> pesky work getting in the way of irc. ;) 18:15:17 <EvilBob> I asked the user for clarification of what this ticket is actually about, and I still don't know. 18:15:24 <nirik> anyhow, I am happy noting the above on the ticket and closing it... or we could keep it open for more input. 18:16:42 <thomasj> it appears it's about the supporter being arrogant. 18:16:47 <nirik> I guess they felt they were being told what to do... 18:17:07 <nirik> but as the join message for the channel indicates, everyones opinions are their own, etc 18:17:30 <thomasj> that's true, even i doubt anyone reading the message :) 18:18:03 <nirik> sadly reading and comprehending is a lost art. 18:18:20 <thomasj> yeah 18:19:38 <nirik> anyhow, shall we note and close? or keep open? 18:19:51 <Southern_Gentlem> close 18:19:54 <thomasj> hmm.. 18:20:22 <EvilBob> I say close 18:20:46 <thomasj> this isn't the first ticket about someone being arrogant.. maybe we can tell the reporter that this will be adressed somehow. 18:21:11 <thomasj> if it will be talked about it 18:21:29 <nirik> well, I'd like to ask fenris02 about being better about disengaging with people before they get mad... 18:21:31 <EvilBob> Sure, go ahead thomasj 18:21:35 <nirik> not sure if that counts? 18:22:00 <thomasj> i think that would count, sure 18:22:33 <Southern_Gentlem> +1 close with that comment 18:22:46 <EvilBob> Back in the day... the person would have been just kicked and then the helper would not have to worry about disengaging 18:23:19 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik, but from the logs i think the person would get mad either way 18:23:39 <nirik> yeah, there's a history I fear... 18:23:43 <EvilBob> Now with the "kinder more gentle #fedora" we have to let them hang around blathering on and on for hours inflaming the channel and making harder on the helpers 18:24:12 <EvilBob> making *it* harder 18:24:39 <thomasj> i thought we have tools like silent if they're disrupting the channel 18:24:53 <EvilBob> They don't like the answer or suggestion given so they hang on and on 18:25:01 <thomasj> kicking them is also possible 18:25:27 <thomasj> i think this is more about that people want to feel that they get understood 18:25:46 <thomasj> sometimes i have to ask dumb questions because i cant explain it any better 18:26:05 <thomasj> having them someone being arrogant will make me feel even more dumb 18:26:08 <thomasj> then* 18:26:33 <thomasj> speaking of myself here, so i guess that might count for others in #fedora either 18:26:37 <nirik> sure, but some people are so quick to take offense that it's really hard. 18:26:52 <EvilBob> So... your opinion is that if you ask a dumb question and then act dumb and feel dumb it's someone else's fault? 18:26:55 <thomasj> that's the nature of humans, yes, we're all different :) 18:27:11 <Southern_Gentlem> I am sorry this one is just close, he asked if he should file a bug and was told no everything is working as it is suppose to which is the truth 18:27:14 <nirik> anyhow, should we move on to the last ticket? or save it? 18:27:17 <thomasj> acting dumb wasn't part of what i said 18:27:27 <Southern_Gentlem> move on 18:27:40 <thomasj> i was just trying to show the other side 18:27:43 <thomasj> yes, move on 18:27:53 <EvilBob> thomasj: I was just trying to cover as many of the variables of dumb I could 18:28:02 <thomasj> ok 18:28:20 <nirik> #topic ticket #163 Offensive behavior - fenris02 18:28:24 <Southern_Gentlem> bob leave cocohead out of this 18:28:31 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/163 18:28:53 * EvilBob has not looked at this ticket... 18:29:19 <nirik> so, I think this is just similar... 18:29:46 <nirik> disengaging politely would hopefully avoid them getting mad... but of course people are quick to take offense. 18:31:09 <nirik> so, I would say the same thing... let them know we are going to try and talk with fenris02 about that, etc. 18:31:19 <thomasj> this ticket is the perfect example of being arrogant, i knew that one already 18:31:36 <thomasj> and i do like fenris 18:31:43 <nirik> is there some way we could quantify 'arrogant' and how not to be it? 18:31:48 <EvilBob> "people are quick to take offense" because we give them the power to be offended and in turn offensive on their own 18:31:54 <nirik> it's kinda subjective 18:32:05 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik, and of course fenris should file a counter ticket for the user being offensive because he would not answer the quesitons 18:32:13 <Southern_Gentlem> close this 18:32:53 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: +1 18:33:06 <thomasj> it is kinda subjective, true 18:33:17 <Southern_Gentlem> the only thing here is that the channel still supports f18 18:33:52 <nirik> yeah, f18 should still get support from anyone wishing to help do so 18:34:02 <Southern_Gentlem> and fenris was wanting a valid reason why the user was trying f18 and the user got upset because he found out his assuptions were wrong 18:34:37 <Southern_Gentlem> close this witch hunt 18:34:44 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: +1 18:35:06 <thomasj> why does he have to give a valid reason, besides it's supported and his decision? 18:35:44 <nirik> he doesn't IMHO. 18:35:50 <thomasj> same IMHO 18:36:27 <Southern_Gentlem> and no one in the channel was willing to help the user is not ours or fenris issue 18:36:53 <nirik> sure, but if he backed away more politely/quicker, things would end better for everyone 18:37:21 <EvilBob> quicker? 18:37:32 <EvilBob> the whole exchange was less than 15 minutes 18:38:02 <EvilBob> He was just trying to find out details, part of basic troubleshooting 18:38:09 <thomasj> exchange nails it almost 18:38:35 <EvilBob> "Hey I see this in F18" "Have you seen if in F19, it might have been fixed?" 18:38:36 <nirik> well, at the point where they said they wanted 18... 18:38:49 <nirik> I don't want to assist with an f18 install, good luck 18:39:08 <Southern_Gentlem> hindsight is 20/20 18:39:39 <Southern_Gentlem> close it 18:39:53 <EvilBob> I probably would have run questions about the f18 choice much the same way, and so would you. 18:40:23 <nirik> well, it would be clear after a few lines that they didn't want to explain... so I would likely have shrugged at that point. 18:40:29 <nirik> but yeah, hard to say without being there. ;) 18:40:36 <Southern_Gentlem> the only thing i would have done different is pointed at the f19 updated lives and told them to try those 18:41:15 <fenris02> did exactly that. 18:41:22 <nirik> hey fenris02 18:41:24 <thomasj> i think the direction here is pretty clear: close it; not our problem; in the good old days he would've been kicked; witch hunt.. kinda sad 18:41:27 <EvilBob> 20:40 < fenris02> any reason you decided not to use f19 or the updated media found in the /topic here? you do realize f18 goes end of life shortly right? 18:41:46 <thomasj> if someone would tell me, i'm doing something wrong, i would try to learn from it 18:42:00 <Southern_Gentlem> so we are back to close it 18:42:21 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: +1 18:42:23 <fenris02> well, +b/+q for legit questions is a rather slippery slope. better to just stop and let someone else help 18:42:24 <nirik> sure. 18:42:32 <thomasj> doing something wrong/the wrong way 18:42:48 <fenris02> f18-updated would have worked too, and left the user with f18 18:43:01 * nirik nods. 18:43:10 <Southern_Gentlem> fenris02, there are no f18 updated one available 18:43:10 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 18:43:27 <nirik> any items for open floor? questions, comments, ideas, bacon? 18:43:41 <fenris02> Southern_Gentlem, my bad then, i thought the most recent f18-update was still posted. 18:43:58 <Southern_Gentlem> bacon and if you are a ham support JOTA this weekend 18:44:38 <nirik> does someone want to deal with the tickets? or should I at some point? 18:45:00 <Southern_Gentlem> bob close please 18:45:00 <thomasj> not me 18:45:46 <nirik> I can, it's not a big deal. 18:46:16 * nirik will close meeting in a min if nothing else. 18:47:11 <thomasj> thx for hosting 18:48:18 <nirik> thanks for coming everyon 18:48:20 <nirik> e 18:48:23 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Re: Schedule for Thursday's FPC Meeting (2013-10-17 16:00 UTC)
by Toshio Kuratomi 17 Oct '13

17 Oct '13

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 09:51:03PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:13:45 -0400, James Antill wrote: > > > If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can reply to > > this e-mail, file a new ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fpc, > > e-mail me directly, or bring it up at the end of the meeting, during > > the open floor topic. Note that added topics may be deferred until > > the following meeting. > > Please comment on https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/336 because a Rename > Request depends on it, which is still veto'ed by Ralf. We still don't know > what the FPC's point of view is, and the first time you've discussed it in > the meeting, there has not been any agreement. A few planned review requests > (for related bindings) also depend on it, and currently there is no > progress. > Today's Meeting Log: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/meetingminutes/2013-October/00084… (Sorry, I forgot to do a #startmeeting at the beginning so no nice zodbot logs today) Topics covered were: #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/336 Please clarify the General Naming Guidelines for packages #info "Use lowercase and turn underscores into dashes unless there's a compelling reason to follow a different upstream convention." PASSED (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) #topic #352 BLAS and LAPACK packaging https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/352 - Deferred until spot is around (he won't be here next week either) as he worked on the MPI guidelines and could have some insight into whether we want to duplicate those here. #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/353 Update autodep filter guidelines to mention changes to rpm in F20+ #info update the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:AutoProvidesAndRequiresFiltering#P… guidelines with that description from the ticket and open bugs against the packages providing the macros PASSED (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/354 PHP Guildelines small addition #info Php guidelines update passed PASSED (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) We met last week as well and I failed at sending a note to this list with the logs: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fpc/fpc.2013-10-10-15.59.html ============================================= #fedora-meeting-1: fedora packaging committee ============================================= Meeting started by spot at 15:59:39 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-10-10/fpc.2013-10-10… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (spot, 16:00:05) * Software Collections in Fedora - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/339 (spot, 16:04:58) * Minetest - jthread bundle - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/347 (spot, 16:07:52) * ACTION: ticket updated with +4 and request for unbundling timeline (spot, 16:13:49) * LangPacks Naming Guideline - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/348 (spot, 16:14:17) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/LangPack is the draft (spot, 16:14:43) * ACTION: LangPack2 draft approved (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) (spot, 16:41:05) * Bundling exception for LINPACK && DQRDC2 - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/349 (spot, 16:42:13) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1000829 (RemiFedora, 16:47:45) * ACTION: LINPACK && DQRDC2 are copylibs, exception approved (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) (spot, 16:48:47) * Bundled library exception for codimension-parser - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/350 (spot, 16:50:37) Meeting ended at 17:02:19 UTC. Action Items ------------ * ticket updated with +4 and request for unbundling timeline * LangPack2 draft approved (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) * LINPACK && DQRDC2 are copylibs, exception approved (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * ticket updated with +4 and request for unbundling timeline * LangPack2 draft approved (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) * LINPACK && DQRDC2 are copylibs, exception approved (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * spot (64) * abadger1999 (34) * RemiFedora (23) * paragan (21) * geppetto2 (20) * limburgher (18) * SmootherFrOgZ (5) * zodbot (4)

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FPC Meeting Log 2013-10-17
by Toshio Kuratomi 17 Oct '13

17 Oct '13

[09:09:17] <Rathann> abadger1999: FPC meeting? or was there a time change that I missed? [09:09:45] <abadger1999> Rathann: yeah sorry, my calendar reminder didn't go off. [09:09:51] <abadger1999> #topic FPC Meeting [09:09:56] <abadger1999> #topic Roll call [09:09:59] <abadger1999> Who's here today? [09:10:08] <tibbs|w> I'm around. [09:10:08] <abadger1999> I know spot and geppetto are out. [09:10:12] <tibbs|w> Much more awake than last week. [09:10:16] <abadger1999> Cool. [09:10:24] * jsmith lurks [09:10:41] <abadger1999> #chair Rathann tibbs|w limburgher SmootherFrOgZ [09:11:07] <abadger1999> limburgher, SmootherFrOgZ, RemiFedora: you guys around for FPC meeting? [09:11:12] <abadger1999> #chair RemiFedora [09:11:37] * RemiFedora here [09:11:47] <abadger1999> Almost to quorum. [09:13:27] <abadger1999> while we wait -- yesterday geppetto, dgilmore, mmaslano, bkarbrda, langdon, and I talked on the phone about scls. I think that the SCL people are sufficiently flexible that we can work something out although it might be a compromise all around. [09:13:38] * limburgher here [09:13:47] --> LoKoMurdoK has joined this channel (~soporte@fedora/LoKoMurdoK). [09:13:50] <abadger1999> geppetto is away today so we figured we'd defer the next SCL discussion until next week. [09:13:55] <abadger1999> Cool, that's quorum. [09:14:10] <limburgher> abadger1999: Heart. . .not broken. [09:14:20] <abadger1999> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/336 Please clarify the General Naming Guidelines for packages [09:14:29] <abadger1999> mschwendt asked us to prioritise this. [09:15:08] <tibbs|w> I think I'm on record as always preferring lower case. [09:16:22] <tibbs|w> I certainly wouldn't ever want to require CraZyCasE just because upstream is a bunch of 13-year-olds. [09:16:23] * abadger1999 prefers lower case and dash as well [09:16:33] <abadger1999> yeah. [09:16:35] <limburgher> I personally prefer lowercase. [09:16:35] <RemiFedora> +1 [09:17:21] <abadger1999> what would we like to have happen here? [09:17:43] <abadger1999> We could say "always use lowercase" [09:17:50] <tibbs|w> At minimum let's explicitly allow that. [09:17:53] <abadger1999> or we could give maintainers a little wiggle room [09:17:57] <limburgher> With or without a grandfather clause? [09:18:06] <abadger1999> with grandfather [09:18:10] <tibbs|w> We pretty much always grandfather everything. [09:18:35] <limburgher> Say " Always either use lowercase or follow upstream, with preference in that order?" [09:18:48] <limburgher> Or is that too wiggly? [09:18:55] <jsmith> limburgher: I like that :-) [09:19:12] <tibbs|w> Certainly we don't want anyone adding uppercase when upstream doesn't. [09:19:27] <limburgher> tibbs|w: Oh heck no. [09:21:36] <tibbs|w> So, for case, I'm +1 to limb's proposal. [09:21:38] <abadger1999> "use lowercase and turn underscores and into dashes unless there's compelling reasons to follow a different upstream convention. [09:22:08] <RemiFedora> +1 for "turn underscores and into dashes" [09:22:18] <RemiFedora> (especially when both are used in a package name) [09:22:21] <tibbs|w> I'm +1 to that as well [09:22:42] <tibbs|w> Basically I'm automatically +1 to anything that gets us closer to using all lower case and dashes. [09:22:55] <abadger1999> evas-generic-loaders needs to have the dash piece clarified [09:22:59] <abadger1999> <nod> [09:23:35] <Rathann> +1 to abadger1999's proposal, but what would be a compelling reason? [09:23:42] --> Martix has joined this channel (~martix(a)eduroam-147.fi.muni.cz) [09:23:50] <Rathann> already existing package in another distribution [09:24:12] <Rathann> explicit upstream recommendation [09:24:14] <tibbs|w> We usually trust the review process for that kind of thing. [09:24:42] <-- fuwei has left this server (Quit: Leaving.). [09:26:09] <abadger1999> yeah, possibly. or the package is just for a program you'd run on the commandline and it is /usr/bin/Uppercase [09:26:43] <abadger1999> we've said the mod_* for httpd is allowed so following that convention for future apache modules would seem compelling. [09:26:57] <tibbs|w> Another option is to force lowercase but explicitly permit Provides: CraZyCasE [09:27:21] <Rathann> ugh [09:27:26] <Rathann> I'd rather avoid that [09:27:29] <limburgher> tibbs|w: I'm not in love with that. What does that do to yum search space? [09:27:53] <tibbs|w> No clue, honestly. [09:28:01] <tibbs|w> I think there are a couple of packages which do that already. [09:28:54] <abadger1999> "Alwways use lowercase and dashes in package names [with the following, grandfathered exceptions for dashes LINK]. if a well known name with uppercase or underscores exists for the package you can use a virtual Provides for that." [09:29:59] <RemiFedora> tibbs|w, yes, ex phpMyAdmin provides phpmyadmin [09:30:21] <Rathann> or if upstream name contains _ it becomes - [09:30:23] <-- paragan has left this server (Remote host closed the connection). [09:30:33] <abadger1999> I think people can and will use virtual provifdes regardless... the quesetion to me is whether we're comfortable with disallowing uppercase and underscores... [09:30:43] <Rathann> I'm not [09:30:47] <tibbs|w> I am. [09:30:57] <RemiFedora> discourage seems anough [09:30:57] <abadger1999> pointing out you can use virtual provides would just be to head off a frequent question. [09:31:02] <tibbs|w> But anything that gets us closer is fine with me. [09:31:05] <limburgher> RemiFedora: +1 [09:31:09] * abadger1999 with tibbs|w [09:31:49] <abadger1999> So it sounds like to pass something today we want to go the discourage route. [09:32:16] <abadger1999> Rathann or limburgher: Do you have some better wording than "compelling reason"? [09:32:52] * SmootherFrOgZ is half-here [09:33:04] <Rathann> hm [09:33:22] <-- Martix has left this server (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). [09:33:37] <abadger1999> If not, I think we just vote to move the chains and clarify what those reasons could be if people still argue about it. [09:34:13] <abadger1999> "move the chains" == get us closer to our goal (sorry, american idiom) [09:34:16] <Rathann> "unless upstream project name doesn't follow the convention and there software is packaged in at least one distribution under that name"? [09:34:29] <Rathann> s/there/the/ [09:34:44] <abadger1999> I'd still rather we used lowercase and dashes in many/some of those cases. [09:35:41] <Rathann> it's a fight between KISS and least surprise principle ;) [09:35:47] <abadger1999> <nod> [09:36:05] <abadger1999> and kiss is least surprise to a different audience too :-) [09:36:38] <abadger1999> ie: if I come from debian I may expet the name to match the debian name... but if I come from just Fedora I probably expect it to match other Fedora packages. [09:36:56] <Rathann> *sigh* all right, I'll go with mandating lowercase and s/_/-/g just because I can't think of better reasons [09:37:14] <Rathann> this is a big change for us though [09:37:22] <abadger1999> Proposal: "use lowercase and turn underscores and into dashes unless there's compelling reasons to follow a different upstream convention." [09:37:26] <abadger1999> +1 [09:37:42] <Rathann> that gets my +1 [09:37:46] <tibbs|w> +1 [09:38:09] <RemiFedora> +1 [09:38:12] * SmootherFrOgZ is also +1 here [09:38:32] <Rathann> just fix the grammar before committing [09:38:35] <abadger1999> limburgher: if you want to vote for the record. we're +5 otherwise. [09:38:37] <abadger1999> <nod> [09:38:41] <abadger1999> s/and// [09:39:02] <Rathann> s/'s/are/ [09:39:12] <Rathann> or s/reasons/reason/ [09:39:44] <abadger1999> <nod> [09:39:48] <abadger1999> singularizes [09:40:19] <abadger1999> "Use lowercase and turn underscores into dashes unless there's a compelling reason to follow a different upstream convention." [09:40:48] <abadger1999> #info "Use lowercase and turn underscores into dashes unless there's a compelling reason to follow a different upstream convention." (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) [09:43:12] <abadger1999> #topic #352 BLAS and LAPACK packaging https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/352 [09:44:01] <limburgher> Sorry, AFK, +1 for 336. [09:45:02] <Rathann> not sure what bundling exception is fkluknav talking about [09:45:05] <-- LoKoMurdoK has left this server (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). [09:45:35] <Rathann> but haven't we mandated recently that ABI-compatible alternative implementations must be runtime interchangeable? [09:46:01] <Rathann> well, unless upstream makes it impossible [09:48:51] <RemiFedora> iiuc, openblas is a fork, which have change ABI, but not soname ? Ask upstream to change soname. [09:50:09] <Rathann> it's a fork of gotoblas [09:51:02] <abadger1999> Sounds more like the two projects are changing soname but not abi. [09:52:17] <Rathann> no, actually they don't provide the standard libblas and liblapack [09:52:42] <Rathann> while providing the blas and lapack symbols inside their libs [09:53:02] <Rathann> atlas used to provide libblas and liblapack but doesn't anymore [09:53:06] <limburgher> And the rational basis for this is. . .? [09:53:16] * Rathann shrugs [09:53:33] <Rathann> Susi Lehtola says it should be a compile-time decision [09:53:33] <limburgher> Yeah. [09:53:45] <Rathann> which blas/lapack implementation to use [09:54:21] <Rathann> the issue is when one package uses one implementation and another, dependent one uses another implementation [09:54:34] <Rathann> like the mess we had (still have?) with ssl libraries [09:54:36] --> LoKoMurdoK has joined this channel (~soporte@fedora/LoKoMurdoK). [09:55:26] <Rathann> but the Susi is not upstream although she does maintain a number of scientific packages [09:55:45] <Rathann> and is my sponsoree [09:55:58] <Rathann> *Sussi [09:56:03] <Rathann> sorry for misspelling [09:56:36] --> KageSenshi has joined this channel (~kagesensh@fedora/KageSenshi). [09:58:15] <abadger1999> Hmmm... sussi mentions copying the MPI guidelines. Would that work here? [09:58:58] <Rathann> it would, but then we'd have builds of each liblapack/libblas consumer [09:59:04] <Rathann> three builds [10:00:24] <abadger1999> <nod> But on one hand, that seems to be what upstream for these libraries is promoting. [10:00:39] <abadger1999> since they're no longer providing separate liblapack/libblas [10:07:25] <Rathann> both Kevin's and Sussi's arguments have merits [10:08:30] <abadger1999> yeah. [10:09:04] <abadger1999> Perhaps we should defer this to when spot is around since he kicked the mpi guidelines into their present shape [10:09:27] <limburgher> abadger1999: That's not a bad idea. [10:09:56] * Rathann looks at packages which depend on libblas, liblapack and libatlas in F19 [10:10:24] <abadger1999> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/353 Update autodep filter guidelines to mention changes to rpm in F20+ [10:11:14] <abadger1999> Looks like RemiFedora found the guidelines that have filters and tested that the new way works. [10:12:13] <RemiFedora> I think the descript in the ticket description is fine to be added in the Guidelines for explanation [10:12:35] <abadger1999> <nod> [10:12:44] <RemiFedora> and then we can open a bug against perl and ruby to have them to simplify their macros [10:13:22] <abadger1999> Let's vote to update the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:AutoProvidesAndRequiresFiltering#Private_Libraries guidelines with that description and open bugs against the packages providing the macros [10:13:24] <abadger1999> +1 [10:13:55] <RemiFedora> +1 [10:14:15] <Rathann> +1 [10:15:39] <abadger1999> limburgher, tibbs|w, SmootherFrOgZif you're still around? [10:16:03] <tibbs|w> +1 [10:16:05] <tibbs|w> Sorry, work. [10:16:18] <abadger1999> no problem... we're running late too [10:16:43] <abadger1999> okay, we're at +4 . I'll record in the ticket and we can try to get the remaining vote there. [10:17:01] <abadger1999> Let's try to get one more: [10:17:12] <RemiFedora> 354 ? [10:17:13] <abadger1999> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/354 PHP Guildelines small addition [10:17:17] <RemiFedora> :) [10:18:11] <abadger1999> This looks okay to me. [10:18:13] <Rathann> looks reasonable [10:18:15] <abadger1999> +1 [10:18:55] <Rathann> +1 [10:19:00] <RemiFedora> +1 [10:19:28] <limburgher> +1 for this one. [10:19:38] <tibbs|w> +1 in theory; I'm guessing the pecl section of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:PHP#Requires_and_Provides would just change to match what the pear bits do. [10:19:45] <limburgher> +1 to previous as well, I'll comment in ticket. [10:19:52] <limburgher> Sorry i keep getting called away. [10:20:14] <RemiFedora> tibbs|w, yes, exactly [10:20:24] <abadger1999> Cool. [10:20:41] <abadger1999> So that's +5 to 354 and to 353. [10:20:50] <abadger1999> #topic Open Floor [10:20:51] <RemiFedora> so I think we have +5 for 353 and 354 [10:20:59] * RemiFedora is too slow [10:21:06] <abadger1999> anyone want to bring something up? If not I'll close out for today. [10:21:37] <Rathann> I saw #355 in the agenda [10:21:47] <abadger1999> Rathann: yeah -- but we're over time. [10:21:51] <RemiFedora> I'd like to find a way to avoid "fast" review.... [10:21:54] <abadger1999> Official this is jut a one hour meeting. [10:22:05] <Rathann> right [10:22:10] <Rathann> nothing from me then [10:22:17] <RemiFedora> like review submitted / reviewed and approved in a few minutes.... [10:22:19] <limburgher> Same here. [10:22:23] <abadger1999> oh one thing. [10:22:43] <tibbs|w> I don't see any way around fast reviews at this point. [10:22:52] <tibbs|w> Submit, someone runs fedora-review, says OK, done. [10:23:32] --> inode0 has joined this channel (~inode0@fedora/inode0). [10:23:36] <abadger1999> FYI: This week, with the ideas about some body needing to approve scls, I thought that maybe we should create a new group composed like the FPC that approves SCLs and maybe bundled libraries as well. [10:24:25] <RemiFedora> +1 for having a group working / approving SCL. We need a filter to avoid to much uneeded SCL [10:24:37] <abadger1999> neither one is really how to package which is what we concentrate on but both need to have consistency, attention to precedent, and someone to write up the decisions in a more general form which makes unsuitable for fesco. [10:24:40] <tibbs|w> I don't know if it should just e FPC that does that, though. [10:24:58] <abadger1999> tibbs|w: yeah, geppetto was of the same opinion. [10:25:01] * Rathann needs to review old logs to find out why he was convinced that we should go forward with the idea of SCLs [10:25:28] <tibbs|w> The problem is that group would have to work really closely with FPC to avoid a disconnect between the guidelines for bundling/SCLs and what actually gets approved. [10:25:40] <abadger1999> but spot pointed out to me once that the majority of FPC's open tickets are usually bundled libraries. [10:25:46] <abadger1999> I think this would add to the same pile. [10:26:04] <abadger1999> tibbs|w: I would turn over that particular criteria to them as well. [10:26:59] <abadger1999> that criteria's question is: "when can you bundle/create an SCL". whereas we try to stick to "how do you package something that bundles/an SCL". [10:28:15] <abadger1999> But yeah -- we should discuss whether we as a group want to push that stuff off to another group or if we want to keep it to ourselves. [10:28:43] <abadger1999> I'll open a ticket so we can discuss it in the main part of the meeting instead of when we're all anxious to get back to other things. [10:30:05] <abadger1999> Okay, thanks for coming everyone! [10:30:07] <abadger1999> #endmeeting

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latam ambassadors meeting logs
by Neville A. Cross 17 Oct '13

17 Oct '13

Those are the link to LATAM Ambassadors' meeting logs. You will find a mixture of English and Spanish. Sadly, no Portuguese today. Aqui estan los enlaces a los registros de la reunión de los embajadores de Fedora LATAM. Van a encontra una mezcla de Español e Inglés. Lamentablemente hoy no tuvimos Portugués. Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/fedora_latam_amb… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/fedora_latam_amb… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/fedora_latam_amb… Saludes Neville

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Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2013-10-16)
by Stephen Gallagher 16 Oct '13

16 Oct '13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2013-10-16) =================================== Meeting started by sgallagh at 18:00:18 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/fesco.2013-10-16… . Meeting summary - --------------- * init process (sgallagh, 18:00:28) * #1164 F20 Changes - Progress on Changes Freeze (sgallagh, 18:03:13) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=998579&hide_resolved=1 (mattdm, 18:14:50) * AGREED: Ask jreznik to ask people in simple mail - update your bugs or they won't be included (+8, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 18:21:57) * #1166 F20 System Wide Change: Migrate to Bluez 5 - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 (sgallagh, 18:22:21) * #1170 Working Group call for Volunteers (sgallagh, 18:24:33) * notting was volunteered as co-ordinator for Base Design WG (mmaslano, 18:35:01) * sgallagh has volunteered as coordinator for Server WG (sgallagh, 18:35:23) * mattdm has volunteered as coordinator for Cloud WG (sgallagh, 18:35:31) * mmaslano has volunteered as coordinator for Environments/Stacks WG (sgallagh, 18:36:01) * AGREED: working groups will have 9 initial voting members, including fesco coordinator (+8, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 19:08:28) * AGREED: Proposal to defer a week to seek other volunteers for Workstation WG coordinator fails (+2, 0, -5) (sgallagh, 19:13:55) * AGREED: Initial working groups due next FESCo meeting for ratification (+8, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 19:16:43) * #1181 Fedora still vulnerable to BEAST (sgallagh, 19:17:09) * AGREED: Apply BEAST patches on F19 (+6,0,-0) and F20 (+7, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 19:48:09) * sparks to announce on fedora-devel (pjones, 19:48:20) * #1182 Python 3 as the Default Implementation - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default (sgallagh, 19:48:34) * AGREED: Discuss the Change on the mailing list for one week and revisit (+8, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 19:57:30) * Next week's chair (sgallagh, 19:57:36) * ACTION: nirik to chair next week's meeting (sgallagh, 20:01:09) * Open Floor (sgallagh, 20:01:15) * help needed for solving blockers: https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/20/beta/buglist (abadger1999, 20:04:02) * ACTION: adamw to send out blocker bug summary email (sgallagh, 20:06:04) * blocker list is at https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/20/beta/buglist. If anyone can help provide a patch for any blockers it wouldn't hurt :) (sgallagh, 20:06:52) Meeting ended at 20:17:02 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * nirik to chair next week's meeting * adamw to send out blocker bug summary email Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * adamw * adamw to send out blocker bug summary email * nirik * nirik to chair next week's meeting * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * sgallagh (163) * abadger1999 (64) * mattdm (63) * mitr (58) * pjones (50) * nirik (42) * jwb (33) * t8m (27) * mmaslano (25) * adamw (17) * Sparks (14) * zodbot (11) * jreznik (8) * Viking-Ice (5) * drago01 (4) * dgilmore (4) * mjg59 (2) * kalev (1) * Southern_Gentlem (1) * notting (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlJe9LgACgkQeiVVYja6o6PlMQCfRonsS4cdzs0MSO7CUrlLAqPm 6s8AoKRlNCGG1GjmOMduzjk8V5BZHXVf =NADR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Ambassadors] FAmNA Meeting Minutes (15 Oct 2013)
by Andrew Ward 16 Oct '13

16 Oct '13

Greetings, please note the below FamNA meeting for 15 Oct 2013; Meeting started by award3535 at 01:09:30 UTC (full logs <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>). Meeting summary 1. *=== FAmNA Roll Call ===* (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:10:00) 2. *=== Announcements ===* (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:11:31) 3. *=== Tickets ===* (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:12:41) 1. https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report/9 (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:13:06) 2. LISA (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:13:50) 3. /ACTION/: award3535 to contact media shippers and coordinate with mattdm to get event rolling (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:29:00) 4. *=== OPEN FLOOR ===* (award3535 <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>, 01:34:11) Meeting ended at 01:38:21 UTC (full logs <http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-10-16/famna.2013-10-16…>). Action items 1. award3535 to contact media shippers and coordinate with mattdm to get event rolling Action items, by person 1. award3535 1. award3535 to contact media shippers and coordinate with mattdm to get event rolling 2. mattdm 1. award3535 to contact media shippers and coordinate with mattdm to get event rolling People present (lines said) 1. award3535 (41) 2. mattdm (26) 3. zodbot (4) 4. wrnash1 (4) -- Andrew Ward award3535(a)fedoraproject.org award3535(a)tds.net award3535(a)gmail.com

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meetingminutes October 2013