January 2014 - meetingminutes - Fedora mailing-lists

Summary/Minutes from today's Fedora Infrastructure meeting (2014-01-30)
by Kevin Fenzi 30 Jan '14

30 Jan '14

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2014-01-30) ============================================ Meeting started by nirik at 19:00:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-30/infrastructure.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * welcome y'all (nirik, 19:00:03) * New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. (nirik, 19:01:23) * Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:07:14) * new fedocal into production today. Congrats pingou (nirik, 19:07:38) * new fedora-tagger in staging. should be in production by the end of the day (threebean, 19:08:24) * new copr version on monday. (nirik, 19:08:51) * work ongoing to add arm support to copr, but in holding for now. (nirik, 19:21:31) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/notifications (threebean, 19:22:55) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/notifications (randomuser, 19:23:47) * notifications going into more testing and feedback, will not announce yet. (nirik, 19:27:38) * cnucnu-web will get a prod instance setup and more testing, etc. (nirik, 19:28:07) * Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:35:07) * smooge in phx2 feb 11th to 14th (nirik, 19:35:59) * Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:43:04) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ (nirik, 19:43:04) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:46:39) * LINK: http://www.saveur.com/article/recipes/pearmans-toddy (threebean, 19:47:26) * note that many fedora folks are traveling this week and next for fosdem and devconf. (nirik, 19:49:10) Meeting ended at 19:51:23 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (97) * pingou (35) * mirek (19) * threebean (18) * smooge (15) * abompard (11) * danofsatx-work (9) * webpigeon (8) * willo (7) * adimania (6) * oddshocks (5) * zodbot (4) * randomuser (3) * lmacken (3) * tflink (2) * misc (1) * mariocav (1) * janeznemanic (1) * relrod (0) * mdomsch (0) * puiterwijk (0) * abadger1999 (0) * dgilmore (0) -- 19:00:03 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2014-01-30) 19:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 30 19:00:03 2014 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:03 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure 19:00:03 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all 19:00:03 <nirik> #chair smooge relrod nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean pingou puiterwijk 19:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 19:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge threebean 19:00:10 * oddshocks 19:00:12 <oddshocks> :D 19:00:14 * lmacken 19:00:19 <janeznemanic> hi 19:00:21 <mariocav> hello 19:00:27 <webpigeon> Hello 19:00:30 * oddshocks reporting from Existentialism class 19:00:36 * pingou 19:00:37 * threebean is here 19:00:47 <pingou> oddshocks: proove it :D 19:00:48 * abompard is here 19:00:50 * willo says present 19:00:55 <threebean> xD 19:00:58 * adimania is here 19:01:04 * danofsatx-work is lurking 19:01:13 <nirik> hey everyone. 19:01:23 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. 19:01:30 <nirik> any new folks like to introduce themselves? 19:01:36 <nirik> or apprentices with questions or comments? 19:01:38 <webpigeon> Hello there :) 19:01:38 * tflink is also lurking but a bit late :) 19:01:39 <oddshocks> pingou: "It is only through staking one's life that freedom is won." ;) 19:02:18 <pingou> oddshocks: ok I believe you :) 19:02:31 <nirik> :) 19:02:35 * mirek is here 19:02:44 <pingou> oddshocks: though I might disagree w/ the statement :) 19:02:52 <danofsatx-work> Well, I'm a newbie....do I need to rehash since I haven't been active in the channels this past week or two? 19:03:06 <webpigeon> I'm interested in getting involved with the infrastructure team :). 19:03:09 <nirik> webpigeon: are you more interested in sysadmin? or application devel? or both? 19:03:14 <oddshocks> pingou: Likewise. 19:03:18 <webpigeon> nirik: bit of both :) 19:03:21 <nirik> danofsatx-work: if you like... we know you tho. ;) 19:03:38 <nirik> webpigeon: great and welcome! 19:03:44 <webpigeon> Thanks :) 19:03:57 <smooge> her 19:04:06 <nirik> webpigeon: see me after the meeting in #fedora-admin and I can get you added to our apprentice group... and see #fedora-apps for application devel. 19:04:16 * danofsatx-work is a disabled veteran of the United States Navy, now a Systems Engineer performing Information Security and Network Architecture for various clients. 19:04:26 <webpigeon> nirik: thanks :) 19:04:44 <pingou> danofsatx-work: welcome :) 19:04:44 * webpigeon might have to run in a while, but will be back later 19:04:49 <nirik> danofsatx-work: cool. welcome again. 19:04:50 <pingou> webpigeon: welcome :) 19:05:15 <webpigeon> pingou: thanks :) 19:05:46 <nirik> danofsatx-work: did I get you added to the apprentice group? or did you want to be ? 19:06:14 <danofsatx-work> nirik: Yeah, you added me already. I just haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. 19:06:42 <danofsatx-work> Willo and I were supposed to be redoing the infrastructure map based on the Nagios graphics, but we haven't hooked back up yet. 19:06:44 <nirik> ok, no worries. ;) 19:06:54 <nirik> cool. 19:07:14 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion 19:07:27 <nirik> ok, any applications news recently and upcoming? :) 19:07:38 <nirik> #info new fedocal into production today. Congrats pingou 19:07:47 <pingou> well let me debug it first :D 19:07:59 <nirik> problems? ;( 19:07:59 <pingou> but yeah, 0.4.2 is in prod :) 19:08:19 <nirik> mirek: would you have a few to discuss some copr stuff? 19:08:24 <threebean> #info new fedora-tagger in staging. should be in production by the end of the day 19:08:26 <mirek> I deployed new version of Copr on Monday, it should get rid of most of traceback (but I saved several errors and TB for future :) ) 19:08:31 <threebean> includes api enhancements for hughsie/gnome-software 19:08:39 <pingou> \ó/ 19:08:42 <pingou> mirek: cool! 19:08:51 <nirik> #info new copr version on monday. 19:09:04 <mirek> still not havving https, because even second version of certs are borged, so waiting on third delivery 19:09:33 <nirik> mirek: question: copr-be uses ansible to spin up a cloud instance, then it sends builds to it, builds and pulls them back, right? 19:09:39 <lmacken> threebean: nice! so will voting in gnome-software immediately hit tagger, trigger a fedmsg, etc? 19:10:15 <mirek> nirik: yes 19:10:43 <threebean> lmacken: yup. it already does for 'ratings' right now. the new feature adds 'usage', so you can say "I use this application", and we'll keep track of that. 19:10:51 <nirik> mirek: so, if we got a arm chassis moved over there sometime... how could we handle it? how hard would it be to modify the cloud part to use ipmitool to reinstall an arm SOC and use that for the build? 19:10:54 <threebean> lmacken: gnome-software will use that stat to help rank applications in its search. 19:10:56 <lmacken> threebean: oh wow, very nice. 19:11:16 <pingou> lmacken: no badges yet, (no auth on the gnome-software part, yet) 19:11:42 <threebean> soon, soon. 19:11:44 <mirek> the code just do: "ansible-playbook builder.yml" 19:12:06 <nirik> mirek: cool, so it should be not too hard to conditionalize the arm part to act differently if needed... 19:12:07 <mirek> it would be easy to modify it to do "ansible-playbook builder.$ARCH.yml" 19:12:28 <mirek> yes 19:12:56 <mirek> nirik: do you have some details about that part "if we got"? :) 19:13:05 <nirik> ok, great. second dumb idea: how hard would it be to add making live images? pass ks file instead of src.rpm and use livecd-creator? 19:13:56 <nirik> mirek: well, we have 4 arm chassis... we might be able to free up one for that before too long. Also, looks like we might get some new arm boxes soon... we might be able to put a pair of them or something in for copr to use. ;) 19:14:22 <mirek> nirik: somebody would have to code it. not hard, but it will take some time. week or two.. and it is not my priority 19:14:46 <smooge> I would say this is a perfect place for people who want ARM support to step in 19:14:53 <mirek> nirik: cool 19:14:56 <nirik> no problems, just wondering again... it has it's share of issues. 19:14:59 <mirek> smooge: agree 19:15:19 * nirik has no more dumb coprs ideas off hand. ;) 19:15:52 <smooge> I have one 19:15:53 <mirek> my goal is to not introduce more features (beside ability to build SCL) and make it robust and get rid of bugs 19:15:53 <nirik> abompard: if you are around, we should talk some hyperkitty. ;) 19:15:55 <smooge> rename copr to coprs 19:16:02 <nirik> smooge: :) 19:16:07 <abompard> nirik: sure 19:16:13 <mirek> and e.g. signing have much mor priority 19:16:17 * threebean always thought it was the Cool Other Package Repository System 19:16:31 <nirik> mirek: is there a todo list somewhere? 19:17:22 <nirik> abompard: so, I made mailman01/02 in production. I haven't run the playbook on them much, it bombed out somewhere ( I can't recall where... looking for the package?). I guess we need to get them all playbooked up before anything else. Should it be ok to run that playbook on them? 19:17:24 <mirek> nirik: bugzilla + plus make api call to get last time of update (only not tracked feature we need) 19:18:11 <nirik> cool 19:18:28 <mirek> nirik: so can I do something to get those ARM systems? 19:18:33 <mirek> nirik: or just wait? 19:19:21 <nirik> mirek: just wait for now. I need to talk to dgilmore when he's back online (he's traveling right now) about the existing ones, the new ones we should hear about more in coming weeks... (and they should also be able to do aarch64 ;) 19:20:01 <mirek> nirik: ok, dgilmore will be on devconf next week - so I will talk to him there 19:20:38 <nirik> mirek: sure, ping me and I can let you know what my thought was on them... 19:21:14 * pingou about to release fedocal 0.4.3 19:21:31 <nirik> #info work ongoing to add arm support to copr, but in holding for now. 19:22:23 <nirik> threebean: how's notifications looking? 19:22:45 <threebean> good, I think :) 19:22:55 <threebean> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/notifications 19:23:08 <pingou> oh we should speak about where we would like cnucnu-web 19:23:15 <pingou> I have the domain name now: release-monitoring.org 19:23:20 <threebean> it just needs testing and feedback. I anticipate there will be lots of scenarios that people want handled that it cannot manage yet 19:23:23 <nirik> so, we want to do a 'soft launch' right? ie, have just us test it out for a bit and work out bugs, then announce it later? 19:23:28 <threebean> nirik: please 19:23:40 <threebean> although, anyone in the meeting or reading the meeting notes is encouraged to try it and use it 19:23:47 <randomuser> #link https://apps.fedoraproject.org/notifications 19:23:48 <threebean> please file bugs with RFEs, etc. 19:23:57 * randomuser winks at threebean 19:24:02 <threebean> randomuser: ;p 19:24:06 <nirik> pingou: cool. we can stick it at osuosl I think... I can make an instance. Does it need a stg one? or just one prod instance? 19:24:19 <pingou> cnucnu still needs quite a bit of the code refactoring after having discussing it with abadger1999 , but we could already have an idea where it should go live 19:24:28 <nirik> randomuser: meetbot actually notices links without #link. ;) 19:24:58 <pingou> nirik: an stg box might make sense, even if we drop it after 19:25:15 <randomuser> nirik, cool, I didn't know that 19:25:54 <nirik> pingou: ok, let me ponder on that... all our stg is in phx2 and uses stg.fedoraproject.org... will need to look and see if we can easily point another domain there and have it work via the proxies, etc. 19:26:05 <nirik> we may need to make it somewhere else isolated. 19:26:17 <pingou> nirik: or we just make the prod box and don't announce it until it's ready 19:26:19 <nirik> the domain is owned by you? or rh? 19:26:24 <pingou> rh 19:26:29 <nirik> that works for me. 19:27:15 <nirik> I can make it, or show any interested folks how to do so. ;) 19:27:21 * mirek lost inet connection for last 5 minutes 19:27:38 <nirik> #info notifications going into more testing and feedback, will not announce yet. 19:27:41 * pingou interested 19:27:54 <pingou> nirik: but let's do that after devconf 19:27:59 <smooge> mirek, they talked about cnucnu 19:28:05 <pingou> before I won't really have the time 19:28:07 <nirik> #info cnucnu-web will get a prod instance setup and more testing, etc. 19:28:13 * willo is interested also 19:28:13 <nirik> pingou: sure, sounds fine. 19:28:40 <danofsatx-work> for the unitiated, what's cnucnu? (quick one-liner) 19:29:00 <pingou> danofsatx-work: http://209.132.184.188/cnucnu/ 19:29:00 <tflink> upstream release monitoring 19:29:05 <pingou> danofsatx-work: 1 line :) 19:29:43 <danofsatx-work> ktx ;) 19:29:50 <nirik> right, so it watches when upstreams release new versions and lets downstreams (like fedora) know. 19:29:58 <pingou> using fedmsg 19:29:59 <nirik> abompard: did you drop off? ;( 19:30:24 <abompard> nirik: was cut off somehow, I saw your message, I'll need to look at those playbooks 19:30:40 <danofsatx-work> pingou: that link isn't responding, btw - at least to me. 19:30:43 <nirik> abompard: ok, I can assist in debugging/fixing. just ping me anytime you are working on it. 19:31:01 <abompard> nirik: sure. They're in the same usual place? 19:31:04 <nirik> abompard: once those are all good, we need to figure out how to route emails, then setup test list and profit. ;) 19:31:15 <abompard> nirik: the plan looks good:-) 19:31:30 <nirik> abompard: yeah, it's the same as the mailman01.stg one, I just added mailman01.phx2/mailman02.phx to the affected hosts. 19:31:33 <pingou> danofsatx-work: hm, annoyingly for me as well 19:31:45 <willo> pingou: no response as well 19:31:56 <abompard> nirik: okay so I just run the group playbooks and the new hosts will be deployed too. Perfect. 19:32:13 <nirik> abompard: yeah, although I already did that part, so they should be up, just need the rest of the playbook. 19:32:44 <abompard> nirik: okay, I'll test that tomorrow and let you know when you get up :-) 19:33:01 <nirik> sounds great. I'd really like to get hyperkitty rolling... 19:33:02 <pingou> willo: danofsatx-work looking into it 19:33:17 <willo> pingou: no prob 19:33:33 <nirik> any other application news or plans? 19:33:49 <abompard> nirik: me too, and I'd like it setup and running before the middle of feb, cause that's when my vacations start ;-) 19:34:12 <nirik> abompard: yeah, and ideally some time while you are around to fix the issues too. ;) 19:34:12 <misc> abompard: so you can work more when the setup is done ? 19:34:49 <abompard> misc: ? 19:35:07 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion 19:35:13 <nirik> so, on the sysadmin side... 19:35:23 <nirik> smooge is planning a trip out to our phx2 datacenter. 19:35:25 <abompard> misc: ah, gotcha 19:35:39 <nirik> smooge: feb 11th - 14th? right? 19:35:40 <smooge> I will be out feb 11-14 19:35:45 <nirik> cool. 19:35:53 <smooge> If there are problems I will be there on the 15th 19:35:59 <nirik> #info smooge in phx2 feb 11th to 14th 19:36:19 <nirik> we have a bunch of machine orders in various states of limbo... so we will see what we get before then. 19:36:48 <smooge> but my day to call it for the 15th will be no later than the 13th. If something comes up on the 14th I am calling it too late and heading home 19:37:02 <nirik> completely fair. 19:37:09 <smooge> we will be replacing the download servers in PHX2 when I am out there I think 19:37:11 <nirik> we need to come up with a todo list for you. 19:37:13 <smooge> that got approved 19:37:20 <nirik> cool. 19:37:42 <smooge> I will be doing 1 day of GNOME stuff, 1 day of PPC stuff, 1 day of inventory stuff 19:37:50 <smooge> and I think 2 days of other stuff 19:38:06 <mirek> how often sometimes do this visit to phx? 19:38:08 <smooge> using the usual 8 hours is a day and I do 16 hours at the place 19:38:09 <nirik> oh yeah, whats the current ppc status? did they ship new hw? or were waiting for you to get out there? 19:38:21 <nirik> mirek: we go 2x a year normally. 19:38:21 <smooge> I heard they were going to ship it last week 19:38:42 <nirik> cool. 19:39:41 <nirik> ok, lets see... I have the ansible daily cron job running away... it's going to sysadmin-logs like our other logs, but perhaps I will move it to just sysadmin... 19:40:05 <adimania> I have almost migrated unbound module to ansible. Some bits are left but I'll finish them over the weekend. 19:40:08 <nirik> I've been looking at it and running playbooks to sync up hosts that have changes (usually things to the base role) 19:40:26 <nirik> adimania: excellent. Thanks for working on it. 19:40:28 <adimania> Can we have a list of such modules which are suitable for beginners? 19:40:40 <nirik> I can look for some more, sure. 19:40:43 <adimania> sort of eayfix 19:40:54 <adimania> s/eayfix/easyfix 19:41:08 <nirik> yeah. some will not be too hard at all... others will be a bit more complex. 19:41:43 <adimania> right. Maybe a heuristic list will help 19:41:48 <smooge> I figure one goal will be to make the download boxes work ansible only 19:42:01 <nirik> smooge: +1, yes, they should be another pretty easy one. 19:42:25 <nirik> nfs mount, rsync, httpd, not much else really. 19:43:04 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 19:43:04 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ 19:43:13 <nirik> anything upcoming anyone would like to note or schedule? 19:43:45 <pingou> I added the weekly meeting to the infrastructure calendar on fedocal 19:43:58 <nirik> thanks. ;) (I thought I did a while back?) 19:43:58 <pingou> with location fedora-meeting(a)irc.freenode.net 19:44:07 <nirik> nice 19:44:09 <pingou> nirik: you did, to the fedora-meeting calendar :) 19:44:15 <nirik> ah... I see. 19:44:27 <pingou> which I hope to get ride of now 19:44:43 <nirik> there might be an outage next thursday night... netapp storage. They haven't finalized it yet tho. 19:45:39 <nirik> pingou: there's a '#fedora-meeting' and a 'fedora-meeting(a)irc.freenode.net' locations? should there be both? 19:45:54 <pingou> nirik: the one with the '#' should go 19:45:59 <nirik> ok 19:46:39 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:46:56 <nirik> ok, any items for open floor? questions? comments? drink recipes? 19:47:11 <pingou> so to make a mojito 19:47:26 <threebean> http://www.saveur.com/article/recipes/pearmans-toddy 19:47:29 <abompard> pingou: I knew we could count on you 19:47:39 <pingou> abompard: learned it all from you ;-) 19:47:41 <danofsatx-work> two parts hydrogen + one part oxygen = life 19:48:14 <pingou> danofsatx-work: nice recipe 19:48:31 <nirik> :) 19:48:41 <willo> ran out of coke while at home recently 19:48:48 <threebean> worth mentioning -> lots of people are travelling this weekend and next for fosdem in brussels first and then devconf in brno. 19:48:55 <nirik> indeed. 19:48:59 <willo> thought, I wonder what Dr Pepper tastes like with bourbon 19:49:00 * pingou at both 19:49:10 <nirik> #info note that many fedora folks are traveling this week and next for fosdem and devconf. 19:49:11 <willo> Suprisingly nice 19:49:19 <threebean> willo: good to know ;) 19:49:19 <nirik> willo: :) 19:50:21 <nirik> ok, if nothing else will close out in a minute... 19:51:20 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 19:51:23 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Summary/Minutes from today's irc support sig meeting (2014-01-30)
by Kevin Fenzi 30 Jan '14

30 Jan '14

============================================= #fedora-meeting: IRC Support SIG (2014-01-30) ============================================= Meeting started by nirik at 18:00:02 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-30/irc-support-sig.… . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 18:00:02) * Week in review (nirik, 18:01:24) * Open Floor (nirik, 18:05:33) Meeting ended at 18:21:16 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (29) * randomuser (11) * msocorcim (11) * CuriosTiger (6) * zodbot (3) * adamw (2) * pjones (2) * nanonyme (1) -- 18:00:02 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2014-01-30) 18:00:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 30 18:00:02 2014 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:02 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig 18:00:02 <nirik> #topic init process 18:00:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig' 18:00:16 <nirik> hey everyone. Anyone around for a quick irc support sig meeting? 18:00:23 * randomuser is hanging around 18:01:14 <nirik> there wasn't much for an agenda today, so likely a short meeting... 18:01:24 <nirik> #topic Week in review 18:01:37 <nirik> anything to note from the previous weeks... 18:01:52 <nirik> I think things have been pretty normal. (Although I haven't had as much time to help in channel) 18:03:27 * randomuser observed nothing extraordinary 18:03:54 <nirik> common bugs have been great this cycle... kudos to adamw and others keeping them up to date. 18:04:08 <adamw> thanks 18:04:23 <adamw> reminds me, i'll do a check for updates today if i find the time 18:04:38 <randomuser> adamw, +1 18:04:42 <nirik> cool. ;) 18:05:33 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 18:05:37 <nirik> any items for open floor? 18:05:53 <nirik> I still plan to make some kind of proposal around nick changes, but haven't gotten to it yet. 18:07:29 <nirik> anyhow, I guess if nothing else we will call it a super short meeting and close in a few... 18:08:18 <msocorcim> hello 18:08:29 <msocorcim> I have one general sort of comment 18:09:10 <nirik> msocorcim: sure, fire away 18:09:51 <msocorcim> don't know if it's germane, but there seem to be many fedora users who are discouraged/disenchanted, insert your choice of dis-.. about gnome desktop 18:10:11 <nirik> there's also many that like it. ;) 18:10:18 <nirik> it's not up to us to tell people what they like. 18:10:38 <msocorcim> it's not really about preference, the point I'm hoping to make 18:10:54 <randomuser> msocorcim, do you have any suggestions on how #fedora can increase awareness of alternatives? 18:11:12 * nirik often sees people suggesting alternatives... 18:11:18 <msocorcim> heh, my hope is to promote awareness of gnome 18:11:55 <msocorcim> I try to use gnome, understand it and help it to improve 18:12:03 <nirik> great. 18:12:12 <randomuser> msocorcim, the general problem as I see it is that there is a class of users that feel that they are somehow not allowed to differ from the default 18:12:49 <msocorcim> more often than not in #fedora when I ask a question about gnome, there's a chorus of "I use mate, check it out" or Cinnamon, or xfce 18:12:58 <nirik> personally I think there's many choices... the problem as I see it is that some people insist on making others use their preference. 18:13:27 <nirik> right. so, IMHO, you should be able to say, sorry, I'm otherwise happy with gnome... but thanks. 18:13:36 <CuriosTiger> Like when the default install insists on Gnome? (yes, that's devil's advocate a bit) 18:13:58 <randomuser> it is rather irritating to see someone come in with a trivial question, and the answer is an unrelated "Just use cinnamon, I don't have that problem" 18:14:01 <msocorcim> well the truth is, I'm pretty dissatisfied with gnome, but I see it as worth supporting 18:14:13 <pjones> CuriosTiger: "default" is, in fact, the antithesis of "insist on" 18:14:15 <randomuser> i see no action required, because I openly criticize such advice 18:14:28 <nirik> randomuser: +1 18:15:09 <CuriosTiger> randomuser: Sometimes, an alternative piece of software can be a genuinely helpful suggestion. I'll agree that's the exception to the rule on IRC, however. 18:15:32 <randomuser> CuriosTiger, well, I'm not a bot. If the suggestion is appropriate, I won't have an issue with it 18:16:08 <nirik> I can see people suggesting alternatives, but they should stop when the user says they want to stick to that software and simply want to know how to do their goal with it. 18:16:54 <CuriosTiger> pjones: Technically, "refuses" is the antithesis of "insists on", but I didn't come here to argue semantics. My point was simply that many people wind up with Gnome not because they made a choice, but because they accepted a default, and therefore it's not necessarily a bad thing to suggest alternatives. That said, it's obviously frustrating when that advice comes at the expense of not 18:17:00 <CuriosTiger> getting help with your actual problem. 18:17:02 <CuriosTiger> nirik: Yeah, agreed 100%. 18:17:15 <randomuser> honestly, unless there's a direct question about alternative DEs, the whole preference debate does not give any support value 18:17:32 <pjones> nirik: or more to the point, it shouldn't be the response to "how do I do $foo in my DE" 18:17:54 <nirik> yep yep 18:18:05 <randomuser> the "I use $DE" refrain is very irritating, distracting, detrimental 18:18:57 <nirik> it's just a more linux case of "Oh, you can do that in microsoft word, you should switch to that" 18:19:01 <nanonyme> Additionally the suggestion to use another DE isn't really useful if the intent is to gather user information that can be investigated to find out whether the reason of $foo not being easy to do is just because of a bug 18:19:01 <randomuser> again, no action required IMO, other than "help people with good answers, and help people *give* good answers" 18:19:24 <msocorcim> nanonyme: nod 18:19:56 <nirik> I think we are all in agreement here then? 18:20:17 <CuriosTiger> I believe so. 18:20:23 <msocorcim> move to adjourn :) 18:20:32 <nirik> thanks for the topic msocorcim 18:20:40 <msocorcim> n/p 18:21:13 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 18:21:16 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Fedora Latam meeting Log / Registro de la reunion de embajadores de Fedora Latam 2014-01-29
by alejandro perez 29 Jan '14

29 Jan '14

Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-29/fedora_ambassado… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-29/fedora_ambassado… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-29/fedora_ambassado…

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Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2014-01-29)
by Stephen Gallagher 29 Jan '14

29 Jan '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2014-01-29) =================================== Meeting started by sgallagh at 17:59:12 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-29/fesco.2014-01-29… . Meeting summary - --------------- * init process (sgallagh, 17:59:24) * #1197 Procedure for suggesting/approving different Products and/or WGs? (sgallagh, 18:04:36) * AGREED: Give this topic a week for people to come up with proposals (+5, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 18:40:24) * ACTION: sgallagh to start discussion on mailing list about Spins vs. Products. (sgallagh, 18:40:40) * #956 Need to audit packageset for bundling of libiberty (sgallagh, 18:41:01) * abadger1999 has nearly finished filing bugs. Nothing more for FESCo to do. Close ticket. (sgallagh, 18:43:17) * #1117 Generalize policy about privilege escalation and Administrator user accounts (sgallagh, 18:43:24) * The default right now is that things requiring more privilege should come to fesco to be decided. (sgallagh, 18:51:39) * AGREED: Since there is nobody with sufficient interest to generalize, and there's nothing really wrong about the current status, close the ticket == stop tracking this (+7, 0, -0) (sgallagh, 18:53:00) * #1226 Workstation PRD for approval (sgallagh, 18:53:06) * AGREED: Approve the current version of the Workstation PRD (+5, 1, -1) (sgallagh, 19:00:17) * Next week's chair (sgallagh, 19:06:49) * AGREED: skip next week's (Feb 5) meeting (+6, 1, -0) (sgallagh, 19:13:38) * abadger1999 to chair Feb 12 FESCo meeting (sgallagh, 19:14:48) * Open Floor (sgallagh, 19:14:52) Meeting ended at 19:19:33 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * sgallagh to start discussion on mailing list about Spins vs. Products. Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * sgallagh * sgallagh to start discussion on mailing list about Spins vs. Products. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * sgallagh (113) * pjones (53) * abadger1999 (52) * jwb (39) * nirik (31) * mitr (21) * notting (19) * zodbot (10) * mmaslano (8) * jreznik (1) * mattdm (0) * t8m (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlLpVM4ACgkQeiVVYja6o6Np5gCfdgXqL/xQ24kInismTLkncz4O hn4An1hkqZavh4djRRAlB9b8HYVFHfyl =LjoN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Minutes from today's (1/29/2014) meeting
by Sam Kottler 29 Jan '14

29 Jan '14

Today's meeting was (very) short because most people were unavailable due to travel for FOSDEM or other things. Here are the minutes and logs: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-29/fedora-meeting… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-29/fedora-meeting… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-29/fedora-meeting… Log (text) http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-29/fedora-meeting… ========================================== #fedora-meeting-1: cloud WG weekly meeting ========================================== Meeting started by samkottler at 17:01:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-29/fedora-meeting… . Meeting summary --------------- * rollcall (samkottler, 17:03:06) Meeting ended at 17:05:46 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * samkottler (10) * zodbot (5) * number80 (1) * mattdm (0) * geppetto (0) * rbergeron (0) 17:01:03 <samkottler> #startmeeting cloud WG weekly meeting 17:01:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 29 17:01:03 2014 UTC. The chair is samkottler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:30 <samkottler> #chair mattdm number80 17:01:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: mattdm number80 samkottler 17:01:38 <samkottler> #chair geppetto 17:01:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mattdm number80 samkottler 17:01:47 <samkottler> #chair rbergeron 17:01:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:03:06 <samkottler> #topic rollcall 17:03:13 <samkottler> \o 17:03:56 <samkottler> anyone around or do we want to skip the meeting? 17:04:11 <samkottler> mattdm: geppetto number80 rbergeron ^^ 17:04:45 <number80> i'm currently boarding, right now, i'm on my seat 17:05:18 <samkottler> okay, we don't have quorum (or people) so I guess you all get your hour back :D 17:05:46 <samkottler> #endmeeting

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FAmNA meeting summary 2014-01-28
by Jon 28 Jan '14

28 Jan '14

====================== #fedora-meeting: FAmNA ====================== Meeting started by masta at 02:00:32 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-29/famna.2014-01-29… . Meeting summary --------------- * === FAmNA Roll Call === (masta, 02:00:33) * === Announcements === (masta, 02:07:31) * === Tickets === (masta, 02:10:40) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report/9 (masta, 02:10:40) * Ticket #68 - FAmNA Meeting Organization (masta, 02:10:51) * === 2014 Event calendar === (masta, 02:13:55) * LINK: https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=mlhhr7ql7g7apnsmr9pcof24k8%40grou… (masta, 02:18:29) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar (herlo, 02:18:50) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedocal/ (herlo, 02:24:26) * === Open Floor === (masta, 02:27:41) Meeting ended at 02:43:28 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * masta (89) * herlo (39) * vwbusguy (38) * chanchito (17) * zodbot (11) * nb (2) * dramsey (1) * epico (1) * kk4ewt (0) * inode0 (0) -- -Jon

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Re: [Ambassadors] REMINDER French Fedora Meeting Today #fedora-meeting-1
by Emmanuel Seyman 28 Jan '14

28 Jan '14

* Reminder [28/01/2014 08:30] : > > Ce mail est un rappel pour la réunion de la communauté francophone, > qui aura lieu ce mardi (28 janvier) à 21h00 heure de Paris sur > IRC (freenode) #fedora-meeting-1 . Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-28/fedora-fr.2014… http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-28/fedora-fr.2014… The log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-28/fedora-fr.2014… Action items: * eseyman contacter l'orga des RMLL pour demander un stand

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Meeting minutes Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-01-28)
by Marcela Mašláňová 28 Jan '14

28 Jan '14

#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2014-01-28) Meeting started by mmaslano at 16:05:47 UTC (full logs). Meeting summary modify PRD (mmaslano, 16:08:04) commetns from ticket https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1224 (mmaslano, 16:08:26) AGREED: New vision: "The Fedora Environment and Stacks Working Group will research and develop new or improved methods of developing, testing, packaging and deploying software for the Fedora community." (+7,-0,0) (mmaslano, 16:39:35) ACTION: bkabrda will write more about devassistant (mmaslano, 16:44:20) jdulaney aka handsome_pirate inactive (mmaslano, 17:00:51) https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2013-November/0000… (sochotni, 17:09:07) drieden is new voting member (mmaslano, 17:12:13) ACTION: mmaslano will change wiki page accordingly (mmaslano, 17:12:25) Meeting ended at 17:19:41 UTC (full logs). Action items bkabrda will write more about devassistant mmaslano will change wiki page accordingly Action items, by person bkabrda bkabrda will write more about devassistant mmaslano mmaslano will change wiki page accordingly People present (lines said) mmaslano (62) sochotni (38) samkottler (36) tjanez (27) hhorak (17) drieden (16) abadger1999 (13) pkovar (7) pingou (5) zodbot (4) bkabrda (0) juhp (0) handsome_pirate (0) Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. 16:05:47 <mmaslano> #startmeeting Env and Stacks (2014-01-28) 16:05:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 28 16:05:47 2014 UTC. The chair is mmaslano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:05:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:05:52 <mmaslano> #meetingname env-and-stacks 16:05:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'env-and-stacks' 16:05:59 <mmaslano> #chair abadger1999 pkovar tjanez samkottler bkabrda handsome_pirate hhorak juhp 16:05:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 bkabrda handsome_pirate hhorak juhp mmaslano pkovar samkottler tjanez 16:06:08 * samkottler is here 16:06:17 <tjanez> Hey! 16:06:59 <hhorak> Hi guys! 16:07:14 <drieden> Hello! 16:07:45 <mmaslano> and with sochotni we are at least five 16:07:48 <mmaslano> so let's start 16:08:04 <mmaslano> #topic modify PRD 16:08:26 <mmaslano> #info commetns from ticket https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1224 16:08:44 <tjanez> I'm glad notting and sgallagh took time to read the PRD and gave their "outside" view on it 16:09:05 <mmaslano> yeah, good to have a review 16:09:28 <tjanez> I suggest we amend Vision & Mission statement first 16:09:35 <mmaslano> okay 16:10:49 <sochotni> generally Stephen gave us a good starting point I'd say 16:11:28 <abadger1999> hola 16:11:41 <sochotni> i.e. "Fedora is the preferred ecosystem of choice for new software development to occur in any language and on any framework." 16:11:46 <tjanez> sochotni, +1 16:11:49 <sochotni> abadger1999: morning :-) 16:11:55 <mmaslano> abadger1999: hi 16:12:07 <drieden> sochotni +1 16:12:11 <drieden> abadger1999 Hello 16:12:11 <mmaslano> +1 16:12:17 <hhorak> +1 I like it 16:12:18 <tjanez> I would like to also include the words stack and environment 16:12:25 <tjanez> Something like: Fedora is the preferred ecosystem of choice for new software development to occur in any language/stack and in any framework/environment. 16:12:48 <tjanez> Just don't have an elegant way to put it in. 16:13:13 <sochotni> well the problem with that is that I think stack/env can be confusing and I believe vision should be as simple as possible 16:13:30 <sochotni> yeah, maybe a rephrasing somehow would work 16:13:48 <tjanez> Ok, how about: Fedora is the preferred ecosystem of choice for new software development to occur in any language and in any environment." 16:13:56 <hhorak> tjanez: I'd stay with as simple version as possible, even if there is not env&stacks used 16:14:22 <sochotni> hhorak: indeed, that can be mentioned in the mission statement 16:16:18 <drieden> hhorak +1 16:16:30 <mmaslano> hhorak: +1 16:16:56 <mmaslano> abadger1999: do you have any comment about improved Vision? 16:17:04 <sochotni> also I'd sneak in "deployment" somewhere :-) 16:17:08 <mmaslano> samkottler: ^ 16:17:26 <tjanez> Another thought about the environment/framework part, should we limit ourselves to open (FOSS) environments/frameworks? 16:17:27 <mmaslano> sochotni: so Vision is still work in progress 16:17:54 <samkottler> +1 16:18:03 <sochotni> mmaslano: I am working on some ideas 16:18:49 <tjanez> sochotni, +1 about deployment 16:19:05 <tjanez> samkottler, +1 to what? 16:19:07 <abadger1999> +0 about deployment. 16:19:37 <sochotni> "Fedora is the preferred platform for new software development and deployment of new technologies regardless of their implementation language or dependency requirements." 16:19:38 <sochotni> ? 16:19:56 <samkottler> tjanez: deployment 16:20:41 <abadger1999> I personally think we have much further to travel to make fedora a good platform for deployment (I feel that lifespan until EOL is a huge factor, for instance) but if someone wants to work on that I don't object. 16:21:10 <sochotni> abadger1999: doesn't necessarily mean production deployment (the way I thought about it) 16:21:26 <abadger1999> tjanez: Re: FOSS... I think atm fedora is probably FOSS-only (judging by recent board decision). Could change i nthe future. 16:21:33 <abadger1999> sochotni: k 16:22:12 <tjanez> abadger1999, yea, I followed the board discussions, so I guess FOSS is implied :-) 16:22:40 <hhorak> sochotni: I'm not so sure if people can imagine something concrete under "dependency requirements", I wouldn't probably. What about "..implementation language or application stacks"? 16:24:57 <tjanez> sochotni, I would simplify your proposal to: "Fedora is the preferred platform for new software development and its deployment in any language and/or application stack." 16:25:50 <sochotni> I am not sure "application stack" is understandable enough to most people but I might be wrong 16:26:14 <sochotni> I know it took some time to just define what *we* actually mean by that 16:27:31 <tjanez> sochotni, how about "software stack"? 16:27:52 <hhorak> tjanez: I like that and would simplify even "and/or" to just "or" 16:27:54 <sochotni> IMO though all of this doesn't belong on the meeting like this... 16:28:14 <sochotni> email is much better for these kinds of modifications/drafts 16:28:23 <sochotni> or any other non-realtime thing 16:28:42 <mmaslano> so we don't have any proposal :) 16:28:42 <sochotni> usually people need to consider/come up with alternatives 16:29:18 <mmaslano> let's speak about Vision on maling list 16:29:30 <sochotni> mmaslano: that was just a suggestion :-) 16:29:41 <mmaslano> what about Mission? Is sgallagh's version acceptable? 16:30:26 <tjanez> I would modify sgallagh's version to include the word testing: "The Fedora Environment and Stacks Working Group will research and develop new or improved methods of packaging, testing and deploying software for the Fedora community." 16:30:34 <hhorak> mmaslano: It is for me, but I'd extend "packaging and deploying" to "development, packaging and deploying" 16:30:57 <sochotni> so "developing, testing, packaging and deploying" then :-) 16:30:58 <mmaslano> hhorak: fine by me 16:31:24 <tjanez> hhorak, +1 on developing 16:31:59 <abadger1999> hhorak: +1 16:32:14 <abadger1999> +1 to both additions 16:33:18 <drieden> +1 to the both additions too. 16:34:20 <hhorak> +1 for the whole statement 16:34:31 <tjanez> #proposal "The Fedora Environment and Stacks Working Group will research and develop new or improved methods of developing, testing, packaging and deploying software for the Fedora community." 16:34:57 <mmaslano> +1 for the record 16:35:00 <tjanez> +1 16:35:22 <pkovar> +1 16:35:28 <drieden> +1 16:35:52 <abadger1999> +1 16:36:12 <hhorak> +1 ;) 16:37:39 <tjanez> samkottler, will you vote on the proposal? 16:37:50 <samkottler> +1 16:37:55 <samkottler> sorry, on a call at the same time :) 16:38:58 <mmaslano> :( 16:39:15 <tjanez> mmaslano, ? 16:39:35 <mmaslano> #agreed New vision: "The Fedora Environment and Stacks Working Group will research and develop new or improved methods of developing, testing, packaging and deploying software for the Fedora community." (+7,-0,0) 16:39:43 <mmaslano> tjanez: I'm sad for samkottler 16:39:55 * samkottler sad about being on the call, too :-( 16:40:04 <tjanez> mmaslano, ok :-) 16:40:28 <mmaslano> next comment was about too specific bug in koji 16:42:30 <tjanez> mmaslano, yes, we have some pretty specific examples in the PRD 16:43:15 <tjanez> I suggest we move them into separate wiki pages when we start creating more specific task descriptions / action items 16:43:31 <mmaslano> tjanez: +1 16:43:52 <tjanez> I guess, we needed them (the specific examples) so we understood each other when drafting the PRD 16:44:01 <mmaslano> yeah 16:44:09 * tjanez will need to leave in a minute 16:44:09 <mmaslano> so if we move to devassistant... 16:44:11 <abadger1999> tjanez: +1 16:44:20 <mmaslano> #action bkabrda will write more about devassistant 16:45:41 <samkottler> I'm not opposed to directly talking about devassistant, but what about adding more info about development tooling in general? 16:45:50 <samkottler> slightly OT, but something I've been thinking about recently 16:46:18 <mmaslano> samkottler: could be good, do you have other tools on your mind? 16:46:30 <mmaslano> samkottler: I was looking at Eclipse for some time, but they are doing great 16:46:33 <tjanez> bye guys 16:46:37 <mmaslano> bye 16:46:41 <samkottler> tjanez: cya! 16:46:47 * tjanez will read the minutes later 16:46:54 <abadger1999> bye tjanez 16:47:03 <drieden> bye tjanez 16:47:12 <hhorak> tjanez: bye 16:47:20 <samkottler> mmaslano: I don't have anything directly about specific tools, more just saying that there are lots of tools people already use 16:47:28 <samkottler> and we should help make them better at a high level 16:47:38 <samkottler> (git, vim, gdb, etc) 16:48:54 <mmaslano> sure, but we "own" devassistant upstream, but what about those other tools. Do you sugest analysis of those tools and filling bugs? 16:49:49 <samkottler> I'm just suggesting that we mention the other tools since they are already adopted 16:50:41 <mmaslano> samkottler: could you add them? 16:50:52 <samkottler> yep, doing it right now 16:51:33 <mmaslano> thanks 16:51:50 <samkottler> what do people think about something like 'The Fedora Environment and Stacks Working Group will work with the maintainers of existing tools to ensure they remain relevant to the changing application development landscape'? 16:52:09 <samkottler> existing tools should also include examples like I listed above 16:53:18 <mmaslano> samkottler: I'm not willing to promise something, what I can't do 16:53:26 <mmaslano> what others think? 16:53:42 <mmaslano> it seems to me it's huge project 16:53:50 <samkottler> mmaslano: s/ensure/help them/ 16:54:36 * abadger1999 agrees with mmaslano's sentiment 16:55:23 <samkottler> I do too, but I think it's important that we mention tools other than devassistant 16:55:39 <hhorak> mmaslano: I have the same feeling, I can't imagine we'll enough time for that. What we could do is to try tell users about new things, that are not used so much (I have systemtap probes on my mind now for instance) 16:56:21 <drieden> The "work with maintainers of existing tools to ensure" seems to huge. I would change the "work with" to "coordinate" and also the "ensure" to something which implies more of an oversight and not a commitment. 16:56:32 <mmaslano> samkottler: we mentioned devassistant because it's setting up environment. Otherwise it wouldn't fit 16:58:18 <samkottler> okay, that's fine 16:58:28 <samkottler> we can move on :) 16:59:30 <mmaslano> so it's probably everything to PRD if I didn't miss anything 17:00:51 <mmaslano> #topic jdulaney aka handsome_pirate inactive 17:01:16 <mmaslano> did someone see him? I sent him email before Christmas, but no reply 17:02:22 <samkottler> I've seen him on IRC, but has he ever been to one of our meetings? 17:02:59 <mmaslano> only on first few 17:03:00 <drieden> samkottler I recall him at some of the meetings last year. 17:03:17 <mmaslano> anyway he's not very active, so I'd rather give the vote to someone else 17:03:18 <pkovar> have not seen him. i do remember him saying he would be working on wiki pages. do we still need help with them? 17:03:29 <mmaslano> pkovar: no, I created them ;-) 17:03:34 <samkottler> mmaslano: +1 17:03:36 <pkovar> ah, thank you :-) 17:03:41 <mmaslano> pkovar: I needed space for PRD 17:03:46 <pkovar> right 17:03:51 <mmaslano> pkovar: you can fix czenglish ;-) 17:04:01 <pkovar> will have a look at them 17:04:14 <mmaslano> so I proposed drieden as program manager or sochotni as representative of Java SIG 17:05:13 <mmaslano> any opinions from the WG? :) 17:05:25 <drieden> mmaslano I am very honored to be nominated. 17:05:27 <samkottler> should we maybe have drieden and sochotni write up a little statement about what they want to work on? 17:05:38 <samkottler> or explain to us here even 17:05:38 <mmaslano> samkottler: smart :) 17:05:51 <samkottler> mmaslano: hehe I try :P 17:05:54 <mmaslano> drieden: sochotni: do you have time to do it shortly now? 17:06:02 <sochotni> phew :-) 17:06:11 <samkottler> if it's too much pressure now then maybe we can have the convo on the list? 17:06:44 <drieden> Sure. My focus is on the project management aspects of the group. 17:06:45 <sochotni> I'd just point to my original email from november mostly I guess 17:07:29 <abadger1999> sochotni I've been honored to work with via the FPC/java guideline discussions. drieden I've only known from this group but seems to be a good candidate as well. 17:08:06 <drieden> abadger1999 thanks 17:08:45 <drieden> Also, if I'm not chosen, that's okay. I don't do development work anymore, so if you are looking for someone who is still technical, I would not be helpful. 17:08:53 <mmaslano> sochotni: so please point to it :) 17:09:01 <sochotni> mmaslano: yeah, was looking... 17:09:07 <sochotni> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2013-November/0000… 17:09:18 * abadger1999 actually thought drieden was already a member as listed here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Toshio/Env_and_Stacks_Governance#Curren… 17:09:21 <sochotni> but there was something else 17:09:29 <sochotni> indeed :-) 17:09:48 <sochotni> but who am I to argue with Marcela :-D 17:09:53 <hhorak> sochotni: did you seek for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora.next/WG_Nominations ? 17:10:18 <sochotni> hhorak: I had a longer email somewhere.. 17:11:03 <sochotni> ah I remember...it didn't go to mailing list because there was none at the time 17:11:46 <mmaslano> Last time I tried to picked from every group someone. So I'd prefer this time Debi, as someone good in planning schedules, doable plans etc. 17:11:56 <sochotni> but generally...I prefer to be in the background doing stuff and my meeting skills are sketchy :-) 17:11:59 <mmaslano> but I'm hoping sochotni will still do the automatization he mentioned ;-) 17:12:04 <sochotni> yeah 17:12:05 <mmaslano> great ;-) 17:12:13 <mmaslano> #info drieden is new voting member 17:12:25 <mmaslano> #action mmaslano will change wiki page accordingly 17:13:07 <drieden> Thank you 17:13:07 <sochotni> I'll have pingou here in a week and hopefully we'll get some work done on review tooling 17:13:30 <sochotni> drieden: use your powers for good :-) 17:13:43 <mmaslano> #proposal Open Floor 17:13:48 <hhorak> I guess both drieden and sochotni have already proofed us they care about env & stacks ;) 17:13:57 <samkottler> drieden: welcome :D 17:14:17 <drieden> sochotni I will do my best :) 17:14:25 <sochotni> time for me to get stuff to eat :-) 17:14:35 <drieden> samkottler Thank you. 17:14:53 <hhorak> So, who from this group could I meet on Fosdem this week? 17:15:13 <pkovar> here here 17:15:24 * samkottler will be there 17:15:32 <samkottler> mmaslano: you gonna be at fosdem? 17:15:36 <mmaslano> no 17:15:42 <samkottler> mmaslano: :C 17:15:46 <mmaslano> bkabrda will be there 17:15:49 <samkottler> I'll be at devconf, too 17:15:51 <sochotni> and hhorak as well 17:15:51 <hhorak> pkovar: great, the bus will be one big party.. :-D 17:16:42 <pkovar> hhorak: i think so :-) 17:16:50 <sochotni> samkottler: there will be a lot of people @ devconf it seems 17:17:10 <samkottler> sochotni: indeed 17:17:15 * samkottler is excited for czech beer 17:17:21 <sochotni> samkottler: :-) 17:17:51 <pingou> sochotni: I see my agenda is filling up :) 17:17:53 <sochotni> samkottler: flying in on Thursday? 17:18:06 <sochotni> pingou: yup :-P 17:18:07 <pingou> hhorak: I'll be at fosdem as well 17:18:34 <samkottler> sochotni: yep, I'm flying from brussels to prague and then taking the bus 17:18:39 <hhorak> pingou: samkottler: great, I hope we'll meet in person. pingou, will you be on devconf as well? 17:18:47 <pingou> hhorak: yes 17:19:00 <hhorak> pingou: great ;) 17:19:00 <pingou> samkottler: which day? 17:19:07 <samkottler> pingou: the 6th 17:19:22 <samkottler> pingou: psh, but we've already met 17:19:23 <mmaslano> I'll close the meeting and you can continue ;-) 17:19:30 <hhorak> mmaslano: sure ;) 17:19:34 * mmaslano envy Brusel 17:19:36 <pingou> samkottler: same day Ralph and I arrive 17:19:41 <mmaslano> #endmeeting

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Summary/Minutes from today Fedora Server working group meeting (2014-01-28)
by Kevin Fenzi 28 Jan '14

28 Jan '14

=================================================================== #fedora-meeting-1: Server Working Group Weekly Meeting (2014-01-28) =================================================================== Meeting started by nirik at 16:00:02 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-28/fedora-meeting… . Meeting summary --------------- * roll call (nirik, 16:00:03) * no quorum, please continue lists and #fedora-server discussions on implementation. (nirik, 16:08:50) Meeting ended at 16:08:58 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (14) * zodbot (5) * adamw (2) * davidstrauss (2) * mitr (1) * Evolution (0) * tuanta (0) * sgallagh (0) * simo (0) * mizmo (0) -- 16:00:02 <nirik> #startmeeting Server Working Group Weekly Meeting (2014-01-28) 16:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 28 16:00:02 2014 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:03 <nirik> #chair sgallagh mizmo nirik davidstrauss Evolution adamw simo tuanta mitr 16:00:03 <nirik> #topic roll call 16:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: Evolution adamw davidstrauss mitr mizmo nirik sgallagh simo tuanta 16:00:09 <nirik> who all is around today? 16:00:14 <mitr> Hello all 16:00:19 * nirik knows several folks aren't so we may not have quorum. 16:01:00 <davidstrauss> hi 16:01:08 <davidstrauss> .hellomynameis davidstrauss 16:01:11 <zodbot> davidstrauss: davidstrauss 'David Strauss' <david(a)davidstrauss.net> 16:01:21 <nirik> .hellomynameis kevin 16:01:22 <zodbot> nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' <kevin(a)scrye.com> 16:02:24 <nirik> thats 3... 16:04:04 <nirik> so, I guess we wait a few more and see if folks show up? or just take discussion to list? 16:06:14 <adamw> sorry, here 16:06:22 <adamw> but distracted by anaconda wording bikeshedding :) 16:06:40 <nirik> it's green! 16:06:49 <nirik> still only 4, so no quorum yet. 16:07:47 <nirik> so, I guess everyone go pick holes in my straw man post... and continue in #fedora-server then... 16:08:26 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone... 16:08:50 <nirik> #info no quorum, please continue lists and #fedora-server discussions on implementation. 16:08:58 <nirik> #endmeeting

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2014-01-27 - Fedora QA Meeting - minutes
by Adam Williamson 27 Jan '14

27 Jan '14

================================== #fedora-meeting: Fedora QA meeting ================================== Meeting started by adamw at 16:02:45 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-27/fedora-qa.2014-0… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll call (adamw, 16:02:55) * Previous meeting follow-up (adamw, 16:05:55) * "adamw to post a summary of our position on EOL to the FESCo ticket" - I did that, see https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1198#comment:42 (adamw, 16:06:44) * "adamw to post a mail to test@ highlighting things we can be working on during the 'quiet time'" - did that too, see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2014-January/120167.html , thanks to viking for adding another suggestion (adamw, 16:07:57) * Viking-Ice and roshi have started working on the QA community role which merges bugtriaging and testing process QA community member (adamw, 16:09:41) * SELinux update discussion (adamw, 16:13:30) * brunowolff notes 'make selinux updates spend longer in testing' is a commonly suggested short term approach (adamw, 16:22:34) * cmurf suggests per-package defaults for update release criteria (adamw, 16:22:44) * kparal suggests re-evaluating autopush and a minimum updates-testing time for certain updates (adamw, 16:23:13) * pingou suggests disallowing push to stable until update has made it to -testing (adamw, 16:25:18) * AGREED: while there are various little tweaks that could be considered to the update policy and process as a 'response' to this, we don't think any of them obviously solves the problem without causing other problems, and we trust the selinux maintainers to configure their updates more conservatively in future (adamw, 16:40:31) * Unmaintained package discussion (adamw, 16:40:40) * ACTION: viking-ice to look at a possible process for flagging bitrotten packages as part of the larger triage process proposal (adamw, 16:59:59) * open floor (adamw, 17:01:08) Meeting ended at 17:02:48 UTC. Action Items ------------ * viking-ice to look at a possible process for flagging bitrotten packages as part of the larger triage process proposal Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * viking-ice to look at a possible process for flagging bitrotten packages as part of the larger triage process proposal People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * adamw (79) * Viking-Ice (50) * cmurf (48) * nirik (25) * kparal (16) * brunowolff (14) * pingou (7) * misc (5) * roshi (5) * zodbot (4) * garretraziel (2) * tflink (2) * pschindl (2) * mkrizek (1) * haraldh (1) * pwhalen (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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FAmSCo meeting minutes 2014-01-27
by Jiri Eischmann 27 Jan '14

27 Jan '14

Hi, we had another FAmSCo meeting today. 5/7 members attended. We shortly discussed budget drafts for FY2015 and then reviewed FUDCon LATAM and APAC 2014 bids. You can find more in the minutes: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2014-01-27/famsco.2014-01… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2014-01-27/famsco.2014-01… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2014-01-27/famsco.2014-01… The next meeting will be on Feb 3rd. Jiri

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Fedora Release Engineering meeting summary for 2014-01-27
by Jon 27 Jan '14

27 Jan '14

========================= #fedora-meeting-1: releng ========================= Meeting started by masta at 16:33:37 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-27/releng.2014-01… . Meeting summary --------------- * === Releng Roll Call === (masta, 16:33:37) * === Announcements === (masta, 16:36:56) * === Tickets === (masta, 16:38:14) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/report/10 (masta, 16:38:14) * * xz repodata (masta, 16:40:43) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5362 (tyll, 16:43:04) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5362 (tyll, 16:43:57) * LINK: http://fpaste.org/72037/84215713/ (masta, 17:02:45) * === Open Floor === (masta, 17:09:14) Meeting ended at 17:35:08 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) -- -Jon Disnard FAS: parasense IRC: masta

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Meeting minutes APAC irregular meeting for FUDCon and Budget
by Truong Anh Tuan 24 Jan '14

24 Jan '14

Hi folks, We had a meeting today to discuss about FUDCon APAC 2014 and APAC Budget Planning for FY2015. We almost approved the FUDCon bid by China team. Please kindly check out the logs below for more information. <zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-25/apac.2014-01-25-… <zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-25/apac.2014-01-25-… <zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-25/apac.2014-01-25-… ======================= #fedora-meeting Meeting ======================= Meeting started by tuanta at 03:00:07 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-25/apac.2014-01-25-… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (tuanta, 03:00:26) * FUDCon APAC 2014 (tuanta, 03:07:53) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014 (tuanta, 03:08:25) * ACTION: zsun to double check the Accommodation budget (tuanta, 03:21:12) * ACTION: zsun talk with the team about other possible sponsorships (zsun, 03:21:23) * ACTION: zsun talk with the team to make a tentative agenda (zsun, 03:29:27) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:OSAS (tuanta, 03:35:42) * ACTION: zsun start a new thread on fudcon-planning mailing list to propose to FPL and FAmSCo (zsun, 03:38:31) * APAC Budget Plan for FY 2015 (tuanta, 03:40:08) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget:2015 (tuanta, 03:40:25) * Fedora fiscal year is following Red Hat FY, from March until Feb of the next year (tuanta, 03:41:40) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget/China_Budget_FY2015 (tuanta, 03:42:52) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget/Taiwan_Budget_FY2015 (tuanta, 03:42:59) * ACTION: tuanta to adjust the final draft of APAC budget plan for FY2015 and bring to discuss in FAmSCo meeting (tuanta, 03:51:54) * Open Floor (tuanta, 03:52:19) Meeting ended at 03:54:09 UTC. Action Items ------------ * zsun to double check the Accommodation budget * zsun talk with the team about other possible sponsorships * zsun talk with the team to make a tentative agenda * zsun start a new thread on fudcon-planning mailing list to propose to FPL and FAmSCo * tuanta to adjust the final draft of APAC budget plan for FY2015 and bring to discuss in FAmSCo meeting Action Items, by person ----------------------- * tuanta * tuanta to adjust the final draft of APAC budget plan for FY2015 and bring to discuss in FAmSCo meeting * zsun * zsun to double check the Accommodation budget * zsun talk with the team about other possible sponsorships * zsun talk with the team to make a tentative agenda * zsun start a new thread on fudcon-planning mailing list to propose to FPL and FAmSCo * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * tuanta (86) * zsun (39) * zodbot (11) * endle (3) * thangnn (2) * alick (1) * FranciscoD (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot Kind regards, Tuan

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[FZH] Fedora Chinese Meeting Minutes (2014-01-24)
by Alick Zhao 24 Jan '14

24 Jan '14

Hi all, The IRC meeting minutes yesterday are available at the links below. Thanks everyone for attending the meeting. In the meeting we talked about FUDCon bid progress, offline activities, and others. Please review the proposed ideas and actions. The next IRC meeting will be held on next Friday (2014-01-31). Please come and join the discussion if you can! * Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2014-01-24/fedora-zh.2014-01-24-… * Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2014-01-24/fedora-zh.2014-01-24-… * Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2014-01-24/fedora-zh.2014-01-24-… ================== #fedora-zh Meeting ================== Meeting started by alick at 13:03:07 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2014-01-24/fedora-zh.2014-01-24-… . Meeting summary --------------- * 报到 Roll Call (alick, 13:03:19) * FUDCon APAC Bid (alick, 13:12:21) * LINK: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2014-01-20/fedora-zh.2014-01-20-… (alick, 13:13:04) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014 (alick, 13:14:03) * ACTION: dongfengweixiao query about T-Shirt price (alick, 13:16:05) * ACTION: zsun add travel expense about more cities from APAC (alick, 13:17:18) * ACTION: endle help with zsun on travel expense update (alick, 13:17:45) * APAC 大使组本周六会开特别会议讨论 FUDCon (alick, 13:18:46) * Please take out an hour this Saturday, January 25, for an irregular APAC meeting at 0300 UTC[1] on #fedora-meeting on Freenode (alick, 13:19:04) * 大家尽量参加明天 apac 的 IRC 会议吧，一定要有人参加。 (alick, 13:26:53) * 线下活动 (alick, 13:28:36) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_China_2014 (alick, 13:32:09) * ACTION: alick create a FAD event planning doc for tonghuix (alick, 13:37:38) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget/China_Budget_FY2015 (alick, 13:38:40) * L10N 中文本地化 (alick, 13:41:49) * ACTION: alick post ideas about glossary to mail list (alick, 13:43:23) * 自由讨论 (alick, 13:47:48) * LINK: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/chinese/2014-January/014285.html (alick, 13:58:11) Meeting ended at 14:02:06 UTC. Action Items ------------ * dongfengweixiao query about T-Shirt price * zsun add travel expense about more cities from APAC * endle help with zsun on travel expense update * alick create a FAD event planning doc for tonghuix * alick post ideas about glossary to mail list Action Items, by person ----------------------- * alick * alick create a FAD event planning doc for tonghuix * alick post ideas about glossary to mail list * endle * endle help with zsun on travel expense update * tonghuix * alick create a FAD event planning doc for tonghuix * **UNASSIGNED** * dongfengweixiao query about T-Shirt price * zsun add travel expense about more cities from APAC People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * alick (64) * endle (18) * biergaizi (11) * BadGirl (6) * zhouxiaobo (5) * zodbot (5) * isyangxin (5) * tonghuix (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Summary/Minutes from today's Fedora Infrastructure meeting (2014-01-23)
by Kevin Fenzi 23 Jan '14

23 Jan '14

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2014-01-23) ============================================ Meeting started by nirik at 19:02:52 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-23/infrastructure.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * welcome y'all (nirik, 19:02:52) * New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. (nirik, 19:04:45) * Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:08:29) * fedorahosted.org/reviewboard is back up with openid (thanks to puiterwijk!). Still some issues to work out, but hopefully we can look at it again and see if it's useful now. (nirik, 19:09:25) * fedmsg notifications hopefully deployed by end of next week (nirik, 19:19:50) * Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:30:11) * lots of ansible cleanup this week (nirik, 19:30:26) * filed 3 new sysadmin easyfix tickets this morning. :) apprentices take a look and see if any one of them interests you. (nirik, 19:35:00) * new machines for 4thQ still in limbo as far as I know. (nirik, 19:38:12) * netapp has been slow lately, storage folks are working on it. (nirik, 19:38:27) * Smooge will be heading out to our main datacenter in mid-feb. (nirik, 19:38:50) * Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:39:29) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ (nirik, 19:39:30) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:40:39) * LINK: http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/ (nirik, 19:44:50) Meeting ended at 19:47:25 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (87) * sgallagh (17) * threebean (15) * mariocav (14) * adimania (12) * lmacken (12) * johe2 (7) * willo (5) * zodbot (5) * relrod (4) * abadger1999 (3) * randomuser (2) * dgilmore (2) * pjones (1) * oddshocks (1) * puiterwijk (0) * smooge (0) * mdomsch (0) * pingou (0) -- 19:02:52 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2014-01-23) 19:02:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 23 19:02:52 2014 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:02:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:02:52 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure 19:02:52 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all 19:02:52 <nirik> #chair smooge relrod nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean pingou puiterwijk 19:02:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 19:02:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge threebean 19:03:06 * relrod waves 19:03:07 * lmacken 19:03:14 * threebean is here 19:03:16 * adimania says hi 19:03:18 * oddshocks is here but has to split in around 40 minutes 19:03:18 <mariocav> hello 19:03:25 * johe2 is here 19:03:36 * abadger1999 is here but also paying attention to the board meeting 19:04:15 * willo mubbles morning 19:04:45 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. 19:05:00 <nirik> any new folks like to introduce themselves? or apprentices with questions or comments? 19:05:08 <mariocav> yep, me! 19:05:12 <mariocav> ^^ 19:05:30 <threebean> mariocav: hi there :) 19:05:46 * dgilmore is here but will be heading home soon 19:05:47 <lmacken> (hah, my local fedmsg-notify popped up the meeting topic change before it appeared in my irc client) 19:05:56 <mariocav> well, my name is Mario, I'm from Barcelona. 19:06:05 <nirik> mariocav: welcome. Are you more interested in sysadmin type things? or applications development ? or both? 19:06:12 <nirik> lmacken: yeah, that happens to me sometimes too. ;) 19:06:14 <mariocav> I really don't know 19:06:16 <mariocav> I mean 19:06:31 <mariocav> What I'm doing these days is to read wikis and get information about the services you cover. 19:06:52 <nirik> great. 19:06:52 <mariocav> My experience is very limited (html/css/php/js, c++, and admin of 2 centos servers that offer basic web services - http/dns and mail) 19:07:07 <mariocav> so I don't thing I'll start contributing shortly 19:07:23 <mariocav> Anyways, if someone has any suggestion on what he/she would to next... I'll appreciate 19:07:29 <mariocav> think* 19:07:30 <nirik> well, welcome and do ask questions as you run into them. :) Our usual channels (#fedora-admin, #fedora-apps, #fedora-noc are good for that ongoing) 19:07:40 <mariocav> thank you 19:07:42 * randomuser is lurking around. reading infra docs at a very slow pace 19:07:57 <mariocav> well, that's it 19:07:59 <mariocav> :) 19:08:01 <nirik> randomuser: cool. :) 19:08:07 <nirik> welcome again! 19:08:22 <randomuser> thanks 19:08:29 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion 19:08:39 <nirik> any applications news on plans upcoming? 19:08:53 <nirik> I've one thing to sort of note: 19:09:25 <nirik> #info fedorahosted.org/reviewboard is back up with openid (thanks to puiterwijk!). Still some issues to work out, but hopefully we can look at it again and see if it's useful now. 19:09:37 <abadger1999> yay! 19:09:46 <sgallagh> What are the remaining issues? 19:09:51 <abadger1999> thanks puiterwijk! 19:10:03 * sgallagh thought puiterwijk had it solved yesterday 19:10:06 <nirik> sgallagh: well, I had issues trying to add a remote repo and do a review against it. Might be operator error. 19:10:18 <nirik> it's much faster than before IMHO. 19:10:28 <nirik> I think we can make it faster yet if we want. 19:10:38 <sgallagh> nirik: 2-3s per page instead of 20-50s is a big improvement, yes 19:10:55 <nirik> if we move the db to the same datacenter I think it would be faster. 19:11:07 <nirik> right now it's hitting that over the vpn 19:11:33 <sgallagh> Yes. I also saw some upstream commits recently that should hopefully reduce the DB activity as well (for RB 2.0) 19:11:55 <nirik> also, I wonder if it would make sense to move it to it's own instance? or is having the local git repos a big advantage? 19:12:39 <sgallagh> nirik: The local git repos are no longer necessary 19:12:56 <sgallagh> I added patches upstream a while ago to support fedorahosted cgit from remote locations 19:13:02 <nirik> yeah, didn't think so. ;) so, we might move it to it's own instance with it's own db... which might make it faster. 19:13:14 <sgallagh> They were necessary when we originally set it up. 19:13:26 <nirik> then it could possibly be very useful to us. :) 19:13:48 <sgallagh> Well, we need to do some performance testing 19:13:56 <nirik> sure. 19:14:03 <sgallagh> i.e. Is the DB speedup more valuable than the loss of the local git access? 19:14:20 <sgallagh> Because while cgit works pretty well, it *is* network traffic over HTTP 19:14:38 <nirik> sure, but it could still be in the same datacenter as fedorahosted... 19:14:46 * sgallagh nods 19:14:47 <nirik> even on the same vmhost... 19:15:14 <nirik> anyhow, we will see what we see. 19:15:18 <sgallagh> Right, but pointing it at cgit will mean more load on cgit 19:15:47 <nirik> any other application news ? 19:15:47 <sgallagh> Which is notably more heavyweight than pure git 19:15:52 <nirik> sgallagh: true 19:16:19 <nirik> can it use git:// proto ? or just cgit/http? 19:16:25 <johe2> Sorry lost my network. Will follow from mobile Phone 19:16:42 <nirik> hey johe2. :) 19:17:38 <nirik> any other applications news? 19:17:51 <sgallagh> nirik: the pure git protocol doesn't have a feature for retrieving file blobs (major oversight) 19:17:59 <nirik> sgallagh: lame. ;( 19:18:03 <sgallagh> Hence why ReviewBoard has to rely upon cgit or gitweb 19:18:48 * pjones watches people complain about free software instead of fixing it 19:18:48 <threebean> I'm still aiming at deploying the new fmn app to production by the end of next week 19:19:07 <nirik> threebean: cool. 19:19:10 <threebean> (fmn -> fedmsg notifications) 19:19:22 <nirik> pjones: nothing new under the sun. ;) 19:19:27 <sgallagh> pjones: I don't have the technical knowledge to solve that problem. 19:19:40 <sgallagh> And a reasonably-ubiquitous workaround exists. 19:19:50 <nirik> #info fedmsg notifications hopefully deployed by end of next week 19:19:52 <threebean> nirik: I'll need to setup some new hosts. should I file a ticket for that or just do it? 19:20:05 <nirik> threebean: you can just do it. Happy to help out. 19:20:11 <threebean> cool, cool. 19:20:44 <lmacken> I'd like to get the bodhi cloud vm + ansible ball rolling very soon. If anyone is interested in helping port our puppet stuff over, let me know :) 19:21:13 <nirik> lmacken: cool. Yeah in fact I was thinking bodhi might be a good next thing to move off the app servers... 19:21:22 <lmacken> yeah, definitely 19:21:28 <nirik> of course we likely need different bodhi and bodhi2 stuff. 19:21:29 <johe2> Lmacken i would join 19:21:31 <adimania> I am up for helping out in migration 19:21:42 <adimania> can you point out some tickets? 19:21:54 <lmacken> johe2, adimania: cool :) no tickets at the moment, but I'll file one now 19:22:10 <nirik> should be easy to whip up a bodhi-dev.cloud... and look at porting the bodhi2 puppet stuff to ansible. 19:22:23 <relrod> threebean: re: fmn, how are the model changes coming along? 19:22:27 <johe2> Okay. Sounds good 19:22:32 <nirik> lmacken: is there enough bodhi2 to have a web interface yet? or thats the largely unfinished part? 19:23:37 <lmacken> nirik: not anything that people will enjoy poking at, it's super bare-bones at the moment, but I'll try and workon that part this week so we have something to actually see :) 19:23:54 <willo> lmacken: I'd be keen to assist in puppet2ansible as well 19:24:11 <nirik> yeah, that would be cool. sounds like adamw at least might be up for a irc meeting on bodhi2 soon too... rehash what was wanted and such... 19:24:19 <lmacken> part of me just wants to copy/paste the existing bodhi templates, another part wants to start fresh with bootstrap or something I wish we had a fedora-bootstrap template :) 19:24:21 <threebean> relrod: all set 19:24:35 <threebean> relrod: I'll put a new release in staging and ping you when its there. 19:25:12 <relrod> threebean: awesome! 19:25:27 <threebean> lmacken: https://github.com/ralphbean/bootstrap-fedora 19:25:32 <lmacken> threebean: oh snap 19:25:34 <relrod> threebean: thanks for doing those, I know it was kind of a pain ;( 19:25:37 <nirik> :) 19:25:43 <threebean> lmacken: it needs love :) 19:25:51 <lmacken> threebean: it's a good start :) 19:26:20 <lmacken> even with a modern template, I'll bet we still get plenty of flames for changing the look-and-feel :P 19:26:39 <nirik> well, if not at the 1->2 time, when? ;) 19:27:35 <nirik> any folks looking for the board meeting, it's over in #fedora-meeting--1 19:27:38 <nirik> any folks looking for the board meeting, it's over in #fedora-meeting-1 even 19:27:57 <nirik> ok, any other application type news or discussion? 19:28:05 <lmacken> .ticket 4193 19:28:06 <zodbot> lmacken: #4193 (Port the bodhi module to ansible) – Fedora Infrastructure - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/4193 19:28:12 <lmacken> for those interested 19:28:33 <nirik> great. I can add more details there. 19:28:49 <nirik> or perhaps I should do a blog post on migrating stuff from puppet to ansible. 19:29:07 <adimania> nirik, that would help a lot 19:29:26 <adimania> some sort of guidelines would be a +1 19:29:47 <nirik> I'll see what I can whip up. ;) 19:30:11 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion 19:30:18 <nirik> so, on the sysadmin side of things... 19:30:26 <nirik> #info lots of ansible cleanup this week 19:30:41 <nirik> I setup roles_path today so we don't have to have a long path in role names... 19:31:08 <nirik> I ran --check --diff on all playbooks several times, and then ran real playbooks to fix up things. 19:31:48 <nirik> I fixed out cloud setup task so it doesn't show failed when growing partitions and it can't grow them.... 19:32:04 <nirik> (ie, so you can rerun it multiple times and it doesnt keep showing failed for that task) 19:32:27 <nirik> I have the commits for a daily playbook check/diff run ready. Will push those in later today or tomorrow. 19:32:42 <nirik> and it will send a email out with things that changed or failed int he check run 19:33:20 <nirik> oh, setup mailman01/02 prod instances, but they still need a bunch of work. will ask abompard to work on them. 19:34:25 <nirik> In other news I see there's a new el6 kernel update, so we might schedule mass reboots sometime in the next few weeks. 19:34:25 <threebean> for those that missed it, we got a new collectd plugin -> http://da.gd/s0kH 19:34:34 <nirik> Oh, and... 19:34:46 <threebean> (that's roughly the # of people listening to the fedmsg bus) 19:35:00 <nirik> #info filed 3 new sysadmin easyfix tickets this morning. :) apprentices take a look and see if any one of them interests you. 19:35:43 <nirik> threebean: nice. Thats via everything? websocket/desktop notification/etc? 19:35:52 <threebean> everything but websockets 19:36:00 <threebean> so, koji-shadow and stuff like that + desktop notification 19:36:17 <nirik> cool. 19:36:29 <dgilmore> threebean: you mean koji-stalk 19:36:37 <threebean> right, apologies. 19:37:02 <willo> nirik: will do 19:38:12 <nirik> #info new machines for 4thQ still in limbo as far as I know. 19:38:27 <nirik> #info netapp has been slow lately, storage folks are working on it. 19:38:50 <nirik> #info Smooge will be heading out to our main datacenter in mid-feb. 19:39:29 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 19:39:30 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ 19:39:39 <nirik> any upcoming items folks would like to note or schedule? 19:40:32 * nirik listens to the crickets. :) 19:40:39 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:40:46 <nirik> anyone have items for open floor? 19:40:58 <nirik> suggestions, comments, ideas, brands of popcorn? 19:41:03 * adimania would be stalking nirik for a guide for migrations to ansible. 19:41:40 <nirik> :) adimania: you can also look at the puppet/modules/ask and ansible/roles/ask... I just moved ask over from puppet the other day... 19:41:52 <adimania> ah! 19:41:57 <adimania> that would certainly help 19:42:30 <nirik> but yeah, I will try and do some kind of blog post or the like soon. 19:42:54 <adimania> awesome! 19:43:18 <johe2> Is there a Style guide? 19:43:39 <nirik> for which? our ansible repo? 19:43:46 <adimania> I found http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/infra/docs/ansible.txt 19:43:57 <adimania> I think it is more or less up-to-date. 19:44:00 <adimania> right? 19:44:07 <nirik> yeah, thats a basic SOP for our ansible setup 19:44:16 <willo> nirik: Where's your blog? I couldn't find it on your wiki page 19:44:16 <johe2> Yep for ansible 19:44:27 <nirik> there's also a README file and a CONVENTIONS file in the ansible repo itself 19:44:50 <nirik> http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/ 19:44:57 <johe2> Okay, i guess that will work than 19:45:19 <nirik> willo: http://www.scrye.com/wordpress/nirik/ but it's also on fedora planet. 19:45:39 <willo> Ah, yep, thanks 19:46:32 <nirik> cool. 19:46:48 <nirik> well, if nothing else we will move on and continue in #fedora-admin, #fedora-apps and #fedora-noc. ;) 19:47:22 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone! 19:47:25 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Summary/Minutes from today's FPC Meeting (2014-01-23 17:00 - 18:50 UTC)
by James Antill 23 Jan '14

23 Jan '14

====================== #fedora-meeting-1: FPC ====================== Meeting started by abadger1999 at 17:02:43 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-23/fpc.2014-01-23… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (abadger1999, 17:02:55) * Followup item - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/381 (spot, 17:07:38) * ACTION: Permit matplotlib to bundle the STIX 1.0 fonts until the system 1.1 fonts can be used. matplotlib should make a separate subpackage for the stix-1.0 fonts (e.g. python-matplotlib-stix-fonts-1.0). The fonts must be installed in a matplotlib local path (not in the system fonts dir). Will CC nim-nim to make sure there are no objections. (spot, 17:22:19) * ACTION: (+1:7, 0:1, -1:0) (spot, 17:22:33) * New Java Packaging Guidelines - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/384 (spot, 17:23:24) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/released/javapackages/doc (sochotni, 17:41:37) * ACTION: Revised java guidelines draft approved (+1:8, 0:0, -1:0) (spot, 18:06:12) * Workarounds for rpm symlink <-> directory issue - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/385 (spot, 18:09:43) * LINK: http://svn.wildfiregames.com/public/ps/trunk/build/premake/premake4/src/bas… has a rmdir lua (spot, 18:16:38) * ACTION: abadger1999 will update the ticket with the requested changes (spot, 18:30:59) * /etc/shells needs to be considered - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/386 - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Cicku/Drafts/Take_account_of_shells_file (spot, 18:32:15) * ACTION: Add a temporary FHS exception to allow scls to use /opt/$vendor subdirs (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) (spot, 18:41:38) * ACTION: Draft + requirement for all binary shell paths to be handled with /etc/shells scriptlets (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0) (spot, 18:52:30) * Open Floor (spot, 18:53:02) Meeting ended at 18:56:01 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Permit matplotlib to bundle the STIX 1.0 fonts until the system 1.1 fonts can be used. matplotlib should make a separate subpackage for the stix-1.0 fonts (e.g. python-matplotlib-stix-fonts-1.0). The fonts must be installed in a matplotlib local path (not in the system fonts dir). Will CC nim-nim to make sure there are no objections. * (+1:7, 0:1, -1:0) * Revised java guidelines draft approved (+1:8, 0:0, -1:0) * abadger1999 will update the ticket with the requested changes * Add a temporary FHS exception to allow scls to use /opt/$vendor subdirs (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) * Draft + requirement for all binary shell paths to be handled with /etc/shells scriptlets (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0) Action Items, by person ----------------------- * abadger1999 * abadger1999 will update the ticket with the requested changes * **UNASSIGNED** * Permit matplotlib to bundle the STIX 1.0 fonts until the system 1.1 fonts can be used. matplotlib should make a separate subpackage for the stix-1.0 fonts (e.g. python-matplotlib-stix-fonts-1.0). The fonts must be installed in a matplotlib local path (not in the system fonts dir). Will CC nim-nim to make sure there are no objections. * (+1:7, 0:1, -1:0) * Revised java guidelines draft approved (+1:8, 0:0, -1:0) * Add a temporary FHS exception to allow scls to use /opt/$vendor subdirs (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) * Draft + requirement for all binary shell paths to be handled with /etc/shells scriptlets (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * abadger1999 (131) * spot (97) * sochotni (69) * limburgher (43) * geppetto (36) * Rathann (15) * tibbs|w (11) * zodbot (9) * RemiFedora (8) * racor (5) * SmootherFrOgZ (5) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Latam Meeting Log / Registro de la Reunion de Embajadores de Latam 2014-01-22
by alejandro perez 22 Jan '14

22 Jan '14

Se definió recomendar Nicaragua para el Fudcon 2014. Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-22/fedora-meeting.2… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-22/fedora-meeting.2… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-22/fedora-meeting.2…

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Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2014-01-22)
by Kevin Fenzi 22 Jan '14

22 Jan '14

=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2014-01-22) =================================== Meeting started by nirik at 18:00:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-22/fesco.2014-01-22… . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 18:00:02) * #1197 Procedure for suggesting/approving different Products and/or WGs? (nirik, 18:02:48) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1197 (nirik, 18:02:48) * #1222 PRD Approval Request: Server PRD (nirik, 18:04:09) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1222 (nirik, 18:04:09) * AGREED: approved. ( +7, -0, 1 ) (nirik, 18:09:47) * #1224 PRD Approval Request: Env and Stacks PRD (nirik, 18:09:56) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1224 (nirik, 18:09:56) * AGREED: approved (+8,0,1) (nirik, 18:16:02) * #1225 PRD Approval Request: Cloud PRD (nirik, 18:16:04) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1225 (nirik, 18:16:05) * AGREED: approved (+8,0,1) (nirik, 18:27:51) * #1226 Workstation PRD for approval (nirik, 18:28:04) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1226 (nirik, 18:28:04) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1226#comment:4 , I apologize for the very late coment, (mitr, 18:29:03) * AGREED: defer PRD approval for one week. Request clarification on WG re: 1) schedule autonomy 2) "deviation from some of the traditional rules or policies that Fedora has followed". FESCo has concerns about blanket approval of these statements. (+7,0,0) (nirik, 18:51:44) * #1221 Product working group activity reports (nirik, 19:02:52) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1221 (nirik, 19:02:53) * urge working groups to try and identify things that affect qa/releng/infrastructure/docs/etc as soon as they can (mmaslano, 19:13:59) * AGREED: Tenative deadline of Feb 17th for next working group deliverables. Please try and engage other groups with plans as soon as you can. (+7,0,0) (nirik, 19:18:27) * Next week's chair (nirik, 19:18:38) * sgallagh to chair next week (nirik, 19:20:35) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:20:43) * election voting starts tomorrow. Please remember to vote. (nirik, 19:29:37) Meeting ended at 19:35:26 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (118) * mattdm (56) * jwb (50) * sgallagh (38) * pjones (32) * abadger1999 (31) * mitr (27) * mmaslano (26) * notting (20) * jreznik_ (19) * zodbot (10) * t8m (0) -- 18:00:01 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2014-01-22) 18:00:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 22 18:00:01 2014 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:02 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 18:00:02 <nirik> #chair abadger1999 mattdm mitr mmaslano notting nirik pjones t8m sgallagh 18:00:02 <nirik> #topic init process 18:00:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 18:00:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 mattdm mitr mmaslano nirik notting pjones sgallagh t8m 18:00:22 <mitr> Hello 18:00:30 <mattdm> hi! 18:01:01 <sgallagh> I'm here for about 30 minutes 18:01:29 * nirik waits for at least one more for quorum 18:01:59 * abadger1999 is here 18:02:19 * notting is here now. sorry, network hiccup. 18:02:23 <mmaslano> hi 18:02:35 <nirik> cool. I guess lets go ahead and dive in... 18:02:48 <nirik> #topic #1197 Procedure for suggesting/approving different Products and/or WGs? 18:02:48 <nirik> .fesco 1197 18:02:48 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1197 18:02:49 <zodbot> nirik: #1197 (Procedure for suggesting/approving different Products and/or WGs?) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1197 18:02:57 <nirik> mattdm: you wanted to punt this another week? 18:03:15 <mattdm> nirik yes please. 18:03:23 <nirik> ok. 18:03:25 <mattdm> and, um, not next week becaues I won;t be here. 18:03:44 <mattdm> although hopefully I will have time to write something up. 18:03:56 <nirik> ok. Update the ticket as time permits. ;) 18:04:01 * mattdm nods 18:04:04 <nirik> on then to PRD approvals... 18:04:09 <nirik> #topic #1222 PRD Approval Request: Server PRD 18:04:09 <nirik> .fesco 1222 18:04:09 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1222 18:04:13 <zodbot> nirik: #1222 (PRD Approval Request: Server PRD) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1222 18:04:17 <nirik> here's the server one... 18:04:44 <pjones> apologies, I am here. 18:04:46 <nirik> any questions or comments or discussion? or shall we head to votes? 18:04:57 <mattdm> do we want to have a convention for the fesco members to abstain or vote on their own? 18:05:06 <nirik> sgallagh and t8m were +1 in ticket. 18:05:08 <mmaslano> I like it, it looks good +1 18:05:13 <mmaslano> mattdm: good question :) 18:05:30 * mitr will abstain 18:05:31 <mattdm> I think that's likely to be an academic / procedural question 18:05:31 <sgallagh> mattdm: In the case of server, that eliminates three members of FESCo, FWIW 18:05:49 <pjones> I don't think there's any good reason for abstention to be honest. 18:05:54 <mattdm> I'm +1. I think this is a good approach. 18:06:18 <pjones> The reason you're abstaining is that you're in the position where you understand it best. That's a terrible reason not to vote on it. 18:06:33 <mmaslano> sgallagh: mitr: I guess you wrote it, so you must support it 18:06:38 * pjones is +1 18:06:56 * nirik is +1 also, but disclaimer: also in the server wg. 18:07:15 <mitr> mmaslano, pjones: No, I'm abstaining because I want the concerns of the other WGs to have larger weight in this decision. 18:07:25 <pjones> mitr: fair enough then 18:07:43 <nirik> thats +6,-0,1 notting / abadger1999 ? 18:07:53 <abadger1999> +1 18:07:58 <abadger1999> and pjones+1 to your reasoning 18:09:47 <nirik> #agreed approved. ( +7, -0, 1 ) 18:09:56 <nirik> #topic #1224 PRD Approval Request: Env and Stacks PRD 18:09:56 <nirik> .fesco 1224 18:09:56 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1224 18:09:57 <zodbot> nirik: #1224 (PRD Approval Request: Env and Stacks PRD) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1224 18:10:03 <notting> nirik: sorry, +1. had a local interrupt. 18:10:05 <nirik> any questions or comments or discussion? 18:10:15 <nirik> notting: no worries. 18:10:37 <mmaslano> I'd like to add your comments, as I wrote in the ticket 18:10:48 <mmaslano> I don't want to add them without consensus of the group 18:11:05 <sgallagh> mmaslano: I don't see anything from you in the ticket 18:11:26 <mitr> There's some disconnect between vision/mission and what the rest is actually focusing on ... but each individual item is OK, so +1 18:11:56 <mmaslano> sgallagh: ok, email on devel 18:12:23 <sgallagh> mmaslano: Ah, right. Sorry. I thought you meant you had additional comments that I wasn't seeing 18:13:05 <notting> i'm +1 to it in general; posted a couple of comments on devel@ that more or less match what mitr just said 18:13:24 <mattdm> +1, and +1 to everyone's comments 18:13:30 <nirik> right, +1 and ditto 18:14:01 <pjones> I'm +1 to it, with really the same caveats. 18:14:31 <abadger1999> +1 and also agreements on the comments. 18:14:57 <nirik> FYI, sgallagh and t8m were also +1 in ticket. 18:15:28 <nirik> mmaslano: you +1, or abstaining? ;) 18:15:35 <mmaslano> nirik: yeah 18:15:38 <mmaslano> nirik: 0 18:16:02 <nirik> #agreed approved (+8,0,1) 18:16:04 <nirik> #topic #1225 PRD Approval Request: Cloud PRD 18:16:05 <nirik> .fesco 1225 18:16:05 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1225 18:16:06 <zodbot> nirik: #1225 (PRD Approval Request: Cloud PRD) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1225 18:16:23 <nirik> FYI, sgallagh and t8m were also +1 in ticket here as well. 18:16:39 <notting> apologies. spent too much time reading advisory-board instead of this. so, abstaining. 18:16:49 <mattdm> I'm going to follow convention and abstain 18:17:03 <mattdm> unless that somehow means we don't meet quorum or something 18:17:10 <mmaslano> mattdm: I'd like to ask one thing :) 18:17:20 <mmaslano> mattdm: The Cloud SIG plan to support the major languages: 18:17:20 <mattdm> mmaslano go for it! 18:17:33 <mmaslano> mattdm: I hope cloud people will do it, not main part of my team 18:17:52 <mmaslano> noting against those languages, just we don't want to maintain strange versions... 18:18:10 <mattdm> mmaslano I hope we can get enough people involved from your team and everywhere that we can handle it. 18:18:19 <mmaslano> fine 18:18:20 <mattdm> we'll support what we have resources for, of course :) 18:18:22 <nirik> I'm +1, although some things seem very specific for a prd... 18:18:23 <pjones> Well, aside from the wildly wrong ideas about which markets are ripe for disruption... 18:18:38 <mmaslano> +1 18:18:38 <pjones> nirik: you mean all the "reading your own book" marketing copy? 18:18:46 <mitr> mattdm: "must" provide access to the "following stacks" - does that imply RPM, or would that "must" be fulfilled by using upstream packaging mechanisms? 18:19:05 <mattdm> mmaslano and if your team is working on things specifically that makes those ones easy 18:19:23 <notting> mattdm: "Developers and operators creating scale out applications on top of public and private clouds"... is it the cloud WGs intention to create tools for developers outside of tools for creating cloud environments? 18:19:36 <notting> mattdm: an initial reading of the PRD implies 'no' 18:19:40 <mmaslano> um, we don't have capacity to do more. Maybe if we could use what we have for existing branches 18:19:52 <mmaslano> mattdm: let's speak about it on devconf 18:19:55 <mattdm> mitr I think we're anticipating a mix 18:20:10 <mattdm> mmaslano yes, let's talk. :) 18:20:43 <mattdm> notting I'm not sure i understand the question... 18:21:20 <notting> mattdm: if the target market includes developers creating scale-out apps, is the cloud WG intending to work on better tools for them to do app creation and development 18:21:21 <mattdm> We probably won't create developer tools but may pick some to work on integrating 18:21:40 <mattdm> for example, docker and vagrant. maybe mesos. 18:22:04 <mattdm> I don't think we're planning on creating new things right now 18:22:20 <jwb> you're going to provide those in a cloud product? 18:22:28 <jwb> as in, the cloud images? 18:22:38 <mattdm> jwb docker and vagrant? 18:22:50 <mattdm> yes -- the intention is to have a cloud image spin featuring docker 18:23:10 <notting> mattdm: slight rephrase: so things like openshift integration into deveassistant or Eclipse would not necessarily be something cloud wg would work on? 18:23:41 <mattdm> notting probably not directly, but I think we'd be interested. 18:23:44 <jwb> my unfamiliarity with those specific tools prevents me from knowing if that makes sense or not, but the general case of developer tools seems something that would be more likely found in workstation or server 18:24:02 <jwb> but if specific things make sense, cool 18:25:32 <nirik> we are at +4... further questions or comments or more votes? 18:25:42 <mmaslano> mattdm: I guess plugins from cloud sig would be nice. We often don't have knowledge to create them 18:25:49 <pjones> jwb: yeah, that's about how I feel regarding those tools as well 18:25:50 <mitr> +1; echoing t8m's comment that the "must" items are quite a lot of work 18:26:04 <notting> having now finished reading it, i can be +1 18:27:01 * pjones is +1 as well 18:27:15 <nirik> abadger1999: ? mattdm: are you abstaining? 18:27:27 <mattdm> nirik yeah, I'll abstain. 18:27:32 <mattdm> I'm in favor, obviously. :) 18:27:41 * abadger1999 decided to vote +1 18:27:51 <nirik> #agreed approved (+8,0,1) 18:27:52 <abadger1999> *decides 18:28:04 <nirik> #topic #1226 Workstation PRD for approval 18:28:04 <nirik> .fesco 1226 18:28:04 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1226 18:28:07 <zodbot> nirik: #1226 (Workstation PRD for approval) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1226 18:28:35 * sgallagh disappears for his other meetings. My comments have been made on the mailing list 18:28:44 <nirik> t8m was +1 in ticket. 18:28:48 <nirik> there's also comments in ticket. 18:29:03 <mitr> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1226#comment:4 , I apologize for the very late coment, 18:29:52 <mitr> The PRD may have some implications WRT WG autonomy; this has been somewhat discussed in the advisory-board thread, and may have even been resolved; I'm afraid I haven't caught up with the full discussion there yet. 18:30:55 <mattdm> mitr the point about release schedule is a good one. I read this in its many versions several times but I missed that. 18:31:53 * nirik nods. 18:32:25 <abadger1999> mitr: Yeah, that's my main issue in reading the prd. 18:32:46 <nirik> do we want to ask that be revisited by the WG? or approve conditionally? or ? 18:34:15 <mattdm> the autonomy bit is raised in the intro but it's a little unclear if the overall plans and policies are meant to specifically be "deviations from some of the traditional policies". 18:34:25 <notting> well... part of the PRD process should be WGs asking what they want to do differently. so i'm not sure it's wrong to list changes to policies/schedules. but might want to consider them separately 18:35:11 <mattdm> for example, does "Encapsulation of development environments" mean that the packaging will be under new guidelines, for example? 18:35:24 <mattdm> (for example for example; *sigh*) 18:35:50 <mitr> We could just approve, with a rider to the effect that we're not opposed to changing policies in principle, but FESCo has the authority to override WG decisions in any case (Is that correct?), and we are not giving up that right. 18:35:53 <nirik> good example. ;) 18:36:25 <mattdm> I'm also a little concerned, given previous discussion with the fedora design team, about the theming clause 18:36:37 <nirik> mitr: sure, I'm +1 to that. I think we are all open to change, but want to know why and what and see if it affects the entire distro or just some working group. 18:36:43 <jwb> mattdm, no, it doesn't mean that. it likely means "leverage SLCs" 18:36:52 <mmaslano> mitr: yes 18:36:53 <mitr> OTOH perhaps the WG would like to know the scope in advance to avoid being disappointed by FESCo "second-guessing" (which has been mentioned in the advisory-board thread) 18:37:00 <mitr> jwb? 18:37:23 <mattdm> jwb in that case, cool. 18:37:40 <jwb> mitr, i'm not sure i follow your statement 18:37:57 <mitr> mattdm: FWIW I like the idea of having a consistent theme (not saying anything about who should design it) 18:38:11 <jwb> i think, in general, the preference would be for FESCo to ask for specific clarifications if they aren't going to approve 18:38:17 <mattdm> the theming concern is about previous controversy over Fedora branding and look-and-feel vs. upstream Gnome 18:38:34 <jwb> mattdm, bluecurve? 18:38:54 <notting> jwb: probably more logo vs no-logo 18:39:01 * jreznik_ thinks as a real product, we should really work on own theming to differentiate from upstream/word 18:39:15 <jwb> notting, oh, the foot vs. the f 18:39:18 <mitr> jwb: The concern is that the PRD seems to claiming general authority that FESCo may not want to give up. Would the WG prefer having the areas of responsibilities estblished more precisely now, or by FESCo raising issues about any possible future WG decisions later? 18:39:55 <mmaslano> jreznik_: good point 18:40:03 <jwb> mitr, i would prefer you to highlight where you think it is claiming general authority and discuss that specifically 18:40:14 <mitr> jwb: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1226#comment:4 18:41:13 <mattdm> Fedora Design is one of Fedora's nicely functional subprojects, and I want to make sure this isn't readable as cutting them out. 18:41:16 <jwb> mitr, ok. if fesco would like to postpone voting until those are clarified, i can take them back to the WG 18:41:31 <jwb> mattdm, we have a member of FD on the WG... 18:41:35 <nirik> mattdm: which section are you noting about the design? 18:41:53 <nirik> applications style? 18:42:07 <nirik> ah, I see it now. 18:43:31 <nirik> so, votes? defer a week? vote now? 18:43:39 <abadger1999> Related questoin -- are we going to continue to have the Fedora Change Process? 18:43:47 <jwb> jesus 18:43:58 <jwb> yes, let's add random ass questions on top of this specific PRD 18:44:06 <notting> jwb: example might be the discussion going on on f-a-b; that's a change to policies, and i'm not comfortable with a "general +1 to the PRD" implicitly approving that as a change to policy 18:44:08 <jreznik_> abadger1999: it's prepared to work for sub groups 18:44:10 <abadger1999> Some of the things mentioned in the workstation PRD are things that typically go through the Change process. 18:44:23 <jwb> notting, fair. so vote -1 or defer 18:44:34 * nirik is ok to defer a week. 18:44:38 <mattdm> this may be reading too strongly, but I know there was some desktop team / design team friction before. 18:44:45 <mattdm> I'm for deferring. 18:44:52 <abadger1999> But it's unclear to me if the PRD is saying that the equivalent changes are going to now be approved by the workstation WG or continue through the current Change Process. 18:44:58 <nirik> abadger1999: I was thinking it would, but delegate things to working groups if they are in their area... or fesco if it's not in any working group area. 18:45:02 <jreznik_> abadger1999: just approval for changes in specific area would be delegated to WGs 18:45:22 <mattdm> (that's how I saw it working, too.) 18:45:25 <nirik> mattdm: can you also add a comment asking for clarification of that specific entry ? 18:45:26 <jreznik_> abadger1999: as I said - for example self contained changes approval could be delegated to WGs 18:45:33 <mattdm> nirik I can. 18:45:35 <jreznik_> or from specific area 18:45:37 <mitr> abadger1999: This would work somewhat better if the WGs weren't separated into their own mailing lists... 18:45:41 <jwb> if you defer (which is again fine), please list specific things you'd like answered in the ticket 18:45:42 <abadger1999> Okay -- so ; change submitted to fesco. Fesco decides whether it should be delegated to a specific WG to decide upon? 18:46:03 <pjones> abadger1999: or just fesco asks WG for input? 18:46:32 <nirik> 2 votes to defer so far, 0 votes to approve, 0 votes to reject, 0 abstentions. ;) 18:46:34 <abadger1999> pjones: that works too... It does make fesco the approver which is slightly different than delegating. 18:46:36 <pjones> I think there's some value in keeping "who approves changes" at one place, even if that place winds up rubber stamping those WGs agree on. 18:46:47 <mitr> Do we actually need the extra layer? Let's just discuss them on -devel as we have. Even the current self-contained changes (which are much smaller than some "WG-specific changes") are dicussed there. 18:47:06 <jreznik_> abadger1999: some changes could be directly approved by WG without FESCO involvement 18:47:25 <jreznik_> but we should be still able to track it, escalate to fesco in case of interWGs disputes, used for marketing 18:47:46 <jreznik_> as I said - it's pretty much designed this way, only minor changes would be needed 18:48:06 <jreznik_> unless someone would like to overhaul it again :) 18:48:16 <jwb> can you get back to discussing this important topic after you decide what you're doing with the PRD? it's above any specific PRD 18:48:45 <nirik> votes? more prd comments/feedback? 18:49:13 <pjones> it does sound like several people would like more feedback about questions 18:49:37 <notting> Proposal: defer PRD approval for one week. Request clarification on WG re: 1) schedule autonomy 2) "deviation from some of the traditional rules or policies that Fedora has followed". FESCo has concerns about blanket approval of these statements. 18:50:12 <mitr> alternate proposal: Approve conditionally with FESCo commenting that it retains the ultimate authority over Fedora policies and specifically authority over the schedule; if the WG wants more authority delegated upfront, it can (re?)ask for that 18:50:12 <mmaslano> notting: +1 18:50:18 <nirik> notting: I think we already had 2 votes for that (+mattdms design question) 18:50:24 <mattdm> notting +1 18:50:27 <mitr> I'm +1 to notting, wanted to put the "alternate" here just to have a comparison 18:50:44 <nirik> notting: +1 18:50:53 <abadger1999> notting: +1 18:51:12 <pjones> notting: +1 18:51:44 <nirik> #agreed defer PRD approval for one week. Request clarification on WG re: 1) schedule autonomy 2) "deviation from some of the traditional rules or policies that Fedora has followed". FESCo has concerns about blanket approval of these statements. (+7,0,0) 18:51:52 <nirik> (assuming notting was +1 to his own proposal) 18:51:55 <notting> yeah 18:52:00 <jwb> thanks. please read through it again, and list all the specific questions in the ticket. i'll grab them all and address them with the WG. say... have them in the ticket by friday? 18:52:13 <nirik> jwb: thank you. 18:52:18 <mattdm> jwb friday seems fair 18:52:23 <notting> as an addendum: are FESCo members comfortable with the 3rd-party software discussion happening in the place where it's happening now? 18:52:38 <jwb> notting, it's where fesco said to take it... 18:53:10 <pjones> notting: you mean, on the board list? 18:53:17 <notting> jwb: that is true 18:53:50 <mitr> notting: A heads-up to -devel might be desirable (... it would definitely lead to more noise, but we probably do have contributors that find this issue important but aren't currently on f-a-b) 18:53:55 <nirik> shall we move on? I think our views on the 3rd party non free stuff are pretty clear from our last ticket on it? 18:54:15 <sgallagh> mitr: It made it to LWN, I think most people have heard by now 18:54:30 <mitr> sgallagh: true 18:54:32 <abadger1999> notting: I'm comfortable with the discussion as it relates to fedora's philosophy on non-libre software happening there. 18:54:37 <pjones> sgallagh: lwn and f-d-l don't overlap as much as you might hope 18:55:04 <notting> "the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months..." 18:55:05 <abadger1999> notting: once that's decided creating policy regarding approving repositories should come back to us. 18:55:26 <jwb> i see no decisions in the a-b thread :) 18:55:46 <jwb> need at least 200 more emails before we get there 18:55:47 <mattdm> I don't think a fedora-devel pointer would be a bad thing. 18:55:52 <nirik> jwb: if even then 18:56:05 <abadger1999> jwb: Hire a few monkeys, rent a few typewriters ;-) 18:56:07 <jwb> nirik, i suspect i'll have to just call a vote on the board ticket next week 18:56:20 <notting> i question the practicality of attempting to make a protracted mailing list discussion better by pointing more people at it 18:56:24 <nirik> I'm ok with a fedora-devel pointer, but if discussion starts happening there I may close the thread. 18:56:33 <nirik> jwb: yep 18:56:33 <jwb> notting, agreed 18:56:49 <sgallagh> nirik: is "closing the thread" a real thing that can actually happen? 18:56:53 <jwb> yes 18:57:00 <nirik> fight fire with fire! but you end up with just a bunch of hot air. 18:57:13 <mattdm> notting I don't think it will make the discussion better. It very likely will make it worse. But I think it's a community-wide issue that deserves wide visibility 18:57:15 <nirik> sgallagh: sure. You set mailman to filter that subject/messageidreferece 18:57:30 <nirik> anyhow, shall we move on? 18:57:36 <mitr> notting: at the same time, this is a core question for the identity of the project and the reasons people have joined; whiel the Board is elected and has the authority, I don't think the boardmembers' opinions in this area are all well-known and have been a basis for them being elected in the past. 18:57:40 <jwb> mattdm, in that case, you need to send it to test@ too 18:57:50 <jwb> because the overlap between devel and test is minimal 18:57:59 <mattdm> jwb what we need is some sort of cohesive online presence. 18:58:02 <pjones> mitr: yeah, I think that's a very important distinction 18:58:15 <pjones> it hasn't been an election issue, really. 18:58:16 <sgallagh> jwb: At this point, perhaps just announce@ ? 18:58:22 <jwb> (which is ironic, given that you'd think devel and test would be tightly connected...) 18:58:50 <jwb> sgallagh, *shrug* 18:58:50 <sgallagh> And given that elections are going on right now, perhaps that should be on the questionnaire... 18:58:57 <pjones> jwb: is it (resonably) possible to do a post to announce@ with reply-to set to f-a-b and in-reply-to set to some post on the thread that's already there? 18:59:05 <jwb> sgallagh, there will be no townhall for the board 18:59:08 * mattdm misses fedora weekly news 18:59:12 <jwb> there's only 2 seats and 2 candidates 18:59:18 <nirik> pjones: not sure. 18:59:38 <jwb> pjones, i think nirik has to answer that 18:59:41 <jwb> good idea though 18:59:56 <pjones> nirik: I mean, I'm reasonably sure we're not doing anything weird to in-reply-to headers that come from the sender, but I don't know if announce@ will filter reply-to and re-write it or what. 19:00:06 <sgallagh> jwb: Isn't that forbidden? 19:00:12 <nirik> pjones: I don't know either off hand. It might depend on the settings. 19:00:26 <jwb> sgallagh, not that i'm aware of 19:00:29 <sgallagh> I thought the policy was that nomination had to be extended until there was at least 150% candidacy 19:00:38 <jwb> maybe for fesco? 19:00:39 <nirik> IMHO, people should tell those they think should be involved about it if they feel like it. I don't think an announce post is needed/advised personally. 19:00:51 <abadger1999> sgallagh: that's for fesco... not sure that board has that same clause. 19:00:59 <jwb> i don't believe we do 19:01:09 <pjones> sgallagh: I don't know of any such rule, but if it exists and the number is 150% then we've certainly accidentally violated it in the past 19:01:16 <jwb> also, i don't believe it would be feasible to have that 19:01:17 <nirik> it's fesco only. 19:01:27 <sgallagh> Hmm, looks like the Board clause is just that if it's less than 100% nominations, the FPL gets to appoint the remainder 19:01:29 <nirik> from a time when election rules were different per body 19:01:56 <sgallagh> Sorry for sidetracking 19:01:56 <pjones> nevermind that the lack of candidates isn't even the largest problem with our elections 19:02:35 <nirik> if someone feels a group should be advised to weigh in on the advisory board discussion, please feel free to tell them. 19:02:52 <nirik> #topic #1221 Product working group activity reports 19:02:53 <nirik> .fesco 1221 19:02:53 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1221 19:02:54 <zodbot> nirik: #1221 (Product working group activity reports) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1221 19:03:07 <nirik> we had updates in ticket... anything further we wanted to discuss or bring up? 19:03:15 <mattdm> The report for this week is basically "PRDs all around!" 19:03:26 <sgallagh> We probably need to set a deadline for scoping 19:03:39 <abadger1999> and the note of the f-a-b discussion. Thanks jwb! 19:03:42 <sgallagh> Or at least a deadline for asking to extend the schedule. 19:03:58 <jwb> sure 19:04:39 <pjones> sgallagh: or at least a deadline for setting those deadlines! 19:04:54 <jreznik_> deadlines? /me is listening :) 19:05:05 <sgallagh> pjones: Why don't you form a committee to see if forming a committee is a reasonable approach... 19:05:07 <nirik> There's really insufficent data right now, IMHO. 19:05:17 <nirik> we need the next deliverable from wg's 19:05:30 <jreznik_> yep 19:05:38 <sgallagh> nirik: Right, but since ostensibly the next deliverable is "execution plan", I would hope that would come with an appropriate (approximate) time estimate. 19:05:55 <nirik> "The second deliverable should be a list of necessary changes from existing Fedora procedures needed to release the product. This should be ordered to show what things depend on other changes and at which point the changes will mean that we can no longer produce the current type of Fedora. This will allow us to identify the resources needed by what teams in order to implement the plan and at what p 19:05:56 <nirik> oint we may need to have a longer than normal release cycle to do tooling work." 19:06:24 <nirik> right, but you are correct we don't want to wait many months for that... 19:06:41 <sgallagh> nirik: I think we're agreeing with different words 19:06:49 <nirik> yep 19:06:56 <mattdm> probably... after devconf, but not much after? 19:07:02 <nirik> when is that? 19:07:05 <sgallagh> mattdm: I was thinking exactly that 19:07:13 <sgallagh> DevConf is in two weeks. 19:07:23 <sgallagh> 2.5, really 19:07:27 <mattdm> preceded by fosdem 19:07:41 <mattdm> i am travelling next week and won't be home until after both 19:07:56 <nirik> how about feb 12th 19:08:03 <sgallagh> I think we probably need a minimum of a week post-DevConf to gather thoughts together. 19:08:20 <mattdm> maybe the 17th? 19:08:31 <sgallagh> nirik: Why don't we say the 14th or 17th and review it at the meeting on the 19th? 19:08:40 <mattdm> the monday-before-fesco-meetin worked out very well this time i thought 19:09:30 <nirik> that seems like a lot of time. almost another month of limbo on scheduling. 19:09:57 <sgallagh> nirik: Well, at the same time, many of the people doing this planning will be traveling for the conferences at this time 19:10:18 <nirik> sure, true. 19:10:54 <nirik> any other thoughts? anyone still around? ;) 19:11:12 <mmaslano> yeah. So 17th? 19:11:19 <mmaslano> I'm no travelling, it's fine with me 19:12:13 <jwb> please ping me when we get to open floor 19:12:20 <mattdm> I'm for that thing I said. 19:12:56 <nirik> I guess 17th is ok, but I would urge working groups to try and identify things that affect qa/releng/infrastructure/docs/etc as soon as they can so there won't be a gigantic dump of things no one from those groups knows about on that day. 19:13:23 <nirik> jwb: can do 19:13:27 <mattdm> nirik +1 19:13:29 <sgallagh> nirik: Agreed 19:13:59 <jreznik_> btw for scoping, I've already started pinging guys, updating f21 schedule ticket - of course it depends on what WG would like to see - so it's based on current knowledge 19:13:59 <mmaslano> #info urge working groups to try and identify things that affect qa/releng/infrastructure/docs/etc as soon as they can 19:14:05 <mmaslano> it's note for me ;-) 19:14:13 <notting> nirik: sure, +1 19:14:20 <mmaslano> +1 to 17th 19:14:31 <abadger1999> I don't think we'll be able to look at the scoping docs and make final decisions that week. But if we even want to attempt to we probably need to alert those communities to look at those docs on the 17th and attend the fesco meeting that week. 19:14:57 <nirik> abadger1999: well, the idea was that was the deadline for the working groups to deliver to us... 19:15:12 <nirik> it may indeed take a while after that to decide what we can and can't do and over what timeframe. 19:15:33 <abadger1999> nirik: <nod> Yeah -- so if we already accept that we're not going to make a decision until (earliest) the week after, that does give us some breathing room. 19:16:15 <abadger1999> Just saying if we want to really dig in that week, we'll need to get the other groups that are affected involved asap. 19:16:36 <nirik> sure. I'd prefer we try and involve them as much as possible before then too... 19:17:05 <nirik> so, thats +5 for a tenative feb 17th deadline... any other votes or counterproposals? 19:17:16 <jreznik_> abadger1999: as I said - I already started that pinging for scoping, now with PRDs available, it's going to be easier 19:17:30 <abadger1999> +1 from me 19:17:43 <mitr> I'm not sure it's feasible, but under the theory that the sooner the deadline is, the sooner work gets done, +1 19:17:52 <sgallagh> +5 Feb 17 19:18:02 * pjones +1 on that 19:18:05 <sgallagh> err +1 19:18:27 <nirik> #agreed Tenative deadline of Feb 17th for next working group deliverables. Please try and engage other groups with plans as soon as you can. (+7,0,0) 19:18:38 <nirik> #topic Next week's chair 19:18:45 <nirik> who wants the hot potatoe? :) 19:19:01 <mattdm> I will be in traveling 19:19:46 <sgallagh> I'll take it next week 19:19:57 <abadger1999> thanks sgallagh 19:20:29 <nirik> thanks 19:20:35 <nirik> #info sgallagh to chair next week 19:20:43 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:20:47 <nirik> jwb: you had something? 19:21:00 <jwb> just curious who from FESCo will NOT be at devconf 19:21:30 * pjones will not 19:21:35 * nirik will not 19:21:40 <pjones> was planning to, but turns out funding was tighter than we'd hoped. 19:22:00 * abadger1999 will not 19:22:47 <jwb> ok. thanks 19:23:34 <nirik> any other items for open floor from anyone? 19:24:03 * nirik will close out the meeting in a minute if nothing else comes up 19:24:22 <jwb> oh, one other thing 19:24:56 <jwb> the initial liasons were assigned by FESCo. did you decide if it's entirely up to the WGs to figure out when those will be switched out or retained? 19:25:15 <jwb> i thought there was a desire to at least keep them in place until the PRD was approved, but i forget what we said beyond that 19:25:15 <nirik> I don't know that we decided... can't recall. 19:25:49 <notting> thought we decided liason selection was up to WGs, fesco can NAK if needed. would have to check archives. 19:26:02 <sgallagh> notting: Correct 19:26:04 <jreznik_> that's a good question - we are going to work on KDE SIG transistion to KDE WG and there was that question if FESCo is going to force us to accept your liason or we can select him 19:26:14 <mitr> AGREED: WGs can decide how the FESCo liason is selected, including 19:26:15 <sgallagh> We also allowed them to request a liason *from* us if they didn't want to pick one themselves 19:26:16 <mitr> the possibility of asking FESCo to select. (As FESCo is above the 19:26:18 <mitr> WGs, FESCo could ask WGs to re-choose.) 19:26:20 <mitr> (2013-10-30) 19:26:35 <nirik> there you have it. 19:26:48 <jwb> excellent! thank you 19:27:04 <sgallagh> Hmm, according to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections, election voting starts tomorrow. 19:27:22 <sgallagh> Is that still accurate? 19:27:43 <jwb> afaik 19:27:50 * sgallagh notes that the questionnaire never went out 19:27:54 <nirik> yep. I think so. 19:27:54 <mitr> There weren't any townhalls either 19:27:54 <jreznik_> sgallagh: cwickert is running it this time 19:28:05 <jwb> afaik they canceled the townhalls 19:28:28 <jreznik_> yep, that's my understaning too 19:28:29 <sgallagh> So we're back to pure name-recognition voting again, then? 19:28:38 <jwb> essentially 19:28:38 <abadger1999> sgallagh: I just caught the tail end of a conversation somewhere else... I think the gist was that no questions were submitted. 19:29:17 <jwb> this is not surprising 19:29:37 <nirik> #info election voting starts tomorrow. Please remember to vote. 19:29:48 <sgallagh> Vote early (and often!) 19:29:53 <mattdm> i posted some questions to the fesco one. 19:30:11 <pjones> sgallagh: and again, *still* not the biggest problem with our elections. 19:30:39 <abadger1999> sgallagh: You are only allowed to do that if you live in Chicago. 19:30:39 <nirik> ok, any further items? 19:30:47 <nirik> abadger1999: ...and are also dead. ;) 19:31:03 <jreznik_> pjones: what are that bigger issues? /me is interested in 19:31:16 * abadger1999 codes a pulse monitor into the new elections app ;-) 19:31:27 <pjones> jreznik_: voter turn out is so low we may as well just let the candidates vote for themselves. 19:31:56 <sgallagh> Maybe we can tie voting to FAS account 19:32:02 <mattdm> pjones and that's self-reinforcing when there are no candidates 19:32:04 <jwb> turnover rate in all committees is practically nil 19:32:07 <sgallagh> If you don't vote in three straight elections, your account is disabled? ;-) 19:32:18 <mattdm> I'd rather not force people to vote at random 19:32:32 <sgallagh> mattdm: It *would* solve the turnover problem... 19:32:35 <pjones> jreznik_: that and our lack of any real formal, repeatable processes for any announcements about the elections have, in the past, resulted in large swaths of people not knowing when to vote even if they did attend to, 19:33:10 <pjones> and once three incumbents failed to say they were running again because our announcements are so random, and as a result we had to walk it back and let them in after the deadline because we couldn't fill the seats without doing so. 19:33:39 <jwb> i think the phrase you are looking for is "nobody actually cares anymore" 19:33:53 <jreznik_> pjones: this time it was more complicated as we needed new elections wrangler and then we had to rush it to make January timeframe as agreed by Board 19:33:56 <abadger1999> Ugh -- Is "voting starts tomorrow" UTC tomorrow? 19:34:12 <nirik> ok, can we continue this on #fedora-devel or lists? 19:34:15 * abadger1999 doesn't see that the elections have been entered into the voting application yet. 19:34:33 <pjones> jreznik_: so you see, that's not a reason a repeatable standardized process would be more complicated. 19:34:39 <nirik> abadger1999: I assume utc, yes. 19:34:42 <nirik> * January 23 - 30: Voting Period 19:34:42 <nirik> (closes promptly at 23:59:59 UTC on January 30) 19:34:47 <abadger1999> *sigh* 19:34:54 <pjones> nirik: we're clearly done with the meeting, sure ;) 19:34:58 <jreznik_> pjones: I'm not saying it's not what I'd like to see 19:35:14 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone! 19:35:21 <abadger1999> Thanks nirik! 19:35:26 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Server WG Meeting Minutes (2014-01-21)
by Stephen Gallagher 21 Jan '14

21 Jan '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================== #fedora-meeting-1: Server Working Group Weekly Meeting (2014-01-21) =================================================================== Meeting started by sgallagh at 15:59:24 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-21/fedora-meeting… . Meeting summary - --------------- * roll call (sgallagh, 15:59:31) * Post-PRD Steps (sgallagh, 16:08:30) Meeting ended at 17:07:15 UTC. Action Items - ------------ Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * sgallagh (88) * simo (51) * nirik (49) * adamw (33) * mitr (33) * davidstrauss (31) * zodbot (6) * Evolution (0) * tuanta (0) * mizmo (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlLeuvkACgkQeiVVYja6o6MguQCgpyHm6+rRb0kNezcrdwRO5s2Q WM4AnjpJw8tsdvY4ur+EZzmNjO5DiTio =zbf0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Fwd: 2014-01-20 - Fedora QA Meeting - minutes]
by Adam Williamson 20 Jan '14

20 Jan '14

-- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Fedora Release Engineering meeting summary for 2014-01-20
by Dennis Gilmore 20 Jan '14

20 Jan '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ========================= #fedora-meeting-1 Meeting ========================= Meeting started by dgilmore at 16:38:24 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-20/releng.2014-01… . Meeting summary - --------------- * whos here (dgilmore, 16:38:39) * tickets (dgilmore, 16:39:52) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/report/10 (dgilmore, 16:39:54) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/report/1 (dgilmore, 16:59:02) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5808 - seems to be done as far as I understand (tyll, 16:59:16) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/1501 (dgilmore, 17:01:54) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5362 needs analysis to see if it would break anything (dgilmore, 17:04:21) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5757 https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5761 are requests for f20 tags for gnome and kde - I assume the tickets can be closed as well (tyll, 17:05:22) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3903 needs feedback from abadger1999 (dgilmore, 17:05:33) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Adding_Side_Build_Targets_SOP i guess we should add something there (dgilmore, 17:16:53) * followup from last week (dgilmore, 17:39:22) * open floor (dgilmore, 17:42:56) Meeting ended at 17:49:52 UTC. Action Items - ------------ Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * dgilmore (107) * tyll (23) * sharkcz (8) * dwa (7) * lmacken (6) * nirik (5) * abadger1999 (5) * zodbot (3) * masta (2) * janeznemanic (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJS3WKuAAoJEH7ltONmPFDR0j4QAMZw89JN8WR+lRJUB/kT+UoW KmRglt5AGEGehJpKEF8uSWuj9rwz5g3+idp/2TPYfBTs6XXOg7s7IolfslZPApvq GSQXX4dKvR5D1Kva3j+OIqEc1HPVMQZdDWIrxCXZ89FadUpCray0/8XtcTDw9fa9 yxhQqDJ03qnKHYhsQXwco0/buBjxJPAAqIgNJbe+xJVqJexio63NjpD9o+qV8vNZ t6nqmZEr0pefwx1oQyBmBzurtV9oGVMa0xh4LoUOI7vMELapVV/QLzew2R0ScjDr 4PhiUk4qMdS4pAKlC9LpiqsmDwqgVtYKyXo/Hi+A0JXuYiUPu8C6/d3DtbaQ0RHS IWf4hYnYom/YOwfKUDD70pbG4mVS9hnQEzJ2dS7y9pj9SEs2SGIjCNJ9lgQ+xKda r3PUsQOQXghSETvQd1SwLTvDRYvlYDd0tKrFLCDfs8vd4RK3oAttSlBVPKVTrWyK neQ0hP9qcgdOFzW3LzPohJCqHdEjp3ec9n7j5joSilOCDooOyqtkS6q414xpOIaG S+I6RKo9T51hhOjXRsNRABoBprfB38GiDRUyy+rnf4bVLHzozdaqDjhOmS6H8Mev w7SR5mIZ/pjEcQqtf13IpuMtCFIjHO+jZMUsOyxLYemTYIrqbJYegazakbGqsXnh BuwcP7DAgrdX7usJF54j =5ot/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fedora Docs Meeting Minutes 20JAN2014
by Pete Travis 20 Jan '14

20 Jan '14

==================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings ==================================================================================================== Meeting started by randomuser at 14:02:10 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-20/fedora_docs.2014… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (randomuser, 14:02:10) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1222 and https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1224 (jreznik, 14:09:56) * jreznik's fedora.next jamboree (randomuser, 14:10:22) * Publican4/Publishing (randomuser, 14:19:27) * Koji is setup for accepting SRPMs but we're having problems getting Koji to actually build them. We continue to troubleshoot. (Sparks_too, 14:20:47) * The new backend server is operational and is awaiting packages from Koji to be setup completely. (Sparks_too, 14:21:26) * We'll be running Publican 4 on the backend and RPMs will be made available via the repos. (Sparks_too, 14:22:22) * ACTION: Sparks to update publishing documentation. (Sparks_too, 14:30:31) * Centos Docs (randomuser, 14:31:44) * LINK: http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs (randomuser, 14:34:28) * el7 and Fedora will have a lot in common, and centos has a docs group (randomuser, 14:34:57) * guides (randomuser, 14:39:32) * Sparks is reworking the Security Guide, talk to him if you want to help (randomuser, 14:52:53) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_tasks (randomuser, 14:55:41) * use the task table to ask for and find tasks (randomuser, 14:55:59) * Open Floor (randomuser, 14:57:53) * ACTION: randomuser to send email to docs list about FAD scheduling for weekend of 21MAR2014, give opportunity for protest (randomuser, 15:01:51) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_FAD_2014 (randomuser, 15:04:50) * ACTION: jhradilek to update docs FAD page for brno attendees (randomuser, 15:06:21) Meeting ended at 15:11:05 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Sparks to update publishing documentation. * randomuser to send email to docs list about FAD scheduling for weekend of 21MAR2014, give opportunity for protest * jhradilek to update docs FAD page for brno attendees Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jhradilek * jhradilek to update docs FAD page for brno attendees * randomuser * randomuser to send email to docs list about FAD scheduling for weekend of 21MAR2014, give opportunity for protest * Sparks * Sparks to update publishing documentation. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * randomuser (93) * sgordon (26) * Sparks_too (21) * Sparks (19) * jreznik (15) * pbokoc (13) * jjmcd (8) * lnovich (8) * jhradilek (7) * Capesteve (7) * zodbot (6) * roshi (2) * ciupicri (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- -- Pete Travis - Fedora Docs Project Leader - 'randomuser' on freenode - immanetize(a)fedoraproject.org

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APAC meeting minutes 2014-01-18
by Truong Anh Tuan 17 Jan '14

17 Jan '14

Hi folks, We have a good meeting today with a lot of discussion on upcoming events: FOSSASIA and FUDCon APAC 2014. Please kindly check out the meeting logs for more information. Btw, it is time to plan the budget in FY2015. If you have any events or activities, please make it added to the APAC plan (otherwise, we can not have fund for them). <zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-18/apac.2014-01-18-… <zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-18/apac.2014-01-18-… <zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-18/apac.2014-01-18-… ======================= #fedora-meeting Meeting ======================= Meeting started by tuanta at 04:02:08 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-18/apac.2014-01-18-… . Meeting summary --------------- * Rollcall (tuanta, 04:02:22) * Tickets (tuanta, 04:05:51) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/report/9 (tuanta, 04:06:01) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/111 (udinnet, 04:07:06) * AGREED: Approve udinnet's funding request to FOSSASIA (Trac ticket #111) (tuanta, 04:15:58) * ACTION: tuanta to modify the ticket #111 (tuanta, 04:16:23) * ACTION: tuanta to check with jsimon if FOSSASIA event owner can reimburse some attendees (tuanta, 04:18:51) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/112 -> ticket that we filed for this (FranciscoD, 04:23:08) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/112#comment:2 -> detailed explanation (FranciscoD, 04:26:20) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/115 (tuanta, 04:27:46) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Reimbursement#Travel_Subsid… (tuanta, 04:31:20) * ACTION: tuanta to discuss about "Funding other Fedora contributors (not ambassadors)" from regional budget in FAmSCo (tuanta, 04:37:34) * AGREED: Approve banas's funding request to FOSSASIA (Trac ticket #115) (tuanta, 04:41:04) * ACTION: tuanta to modify the ticket #115 (tuanta, 04:41:22) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/107 (tuanta, 04:41:57) * AGREED: Approve funding request to for accommodation in FOSSASIA (Trac ticket #107) (tuanta, 04:47:58) * ACTION: tuanta to modify the ticket #107 (tuanta, 04:48:16) * FUDCon APAC 2014 (tuanta, 04:50:01) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014 (tuanta, 04:50:20) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014#Transportation_t… (tuanta, 04:55:26) * ACTION: zsun to break down budget for travel and hotel separately of FUDCon Beijing Bidding (zsun, 04:59:13) * ACTION: zsun talk with the team on the travel budget for FUDCon Beijing Bidding (tuanta, 05:02:25) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014 (tuanta, 05:09:32) * ACTION: tuanta to send out a WhenIsGood to the mailing list arrange a special meeting for FUDCon APAC 2014 discussion (tuanta, 05:13:07) * ACTION: everyone to read the bidding wiki before that meeting (tuanta, 05:13:58) * Open floor (tuanta, 05:14:12) * LINK: http://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/ (tuanta, 05:19:43) Meeting ended at 05:22:55 UTC. Action Items ------------ * tuanta to modify the ticket #111 * tuanta to check with jsimon if FOSSASIA event owner can reimburse some attendees * tuanta to discuss about "Funding other Fedora contributors (not ambassadors)" from regional budget in FAmSCo * tuanta to modify the ticket #115 * tuanta to modify the ticket #107 * zsun to break down budget for travel and hotel separately of FUDCon Beijing Bidding * zsun talk with the team on the travel budget for FUDCon Beijing Bidding * tuanta to send out a WhenIsGood to the mailing list arrange a special meeting for FUDCon APAC 2014 discussion * everyone to read the bidding wiki before that meeting Action Items, by person ----------------------- * tuanta * tuanta to modify the ticket #111 * tuanta to check with jsimon if FOSSASIA event owner can reimburse some attendees * tuanta to discuss about "Funding other Fedora contributors (not ambassadors)" from regional budget in FAmSCo * tuanta to modify the ticket #115 * tuanta to modify the ticket #107 * tuanta to send out a WhenIsGood to the mailing list arrange a special meeting for FUDCon APAC 2014 discussion * zsun * zsun to break down budget for travel and hotel separately of FUDCon Beijing Bidding * zsun talk with the team on the travel budget for FUDCon Beijing Bidding * **UNASSIGNED** * everyone to read the bidding wiki before that meeting People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * tuanta (131) * FranciscoD (60) * udinnet (40) * zsun (22) * zodbot (18) * MavJS (17) * banas (16) * gnokii (11) * MarioB (8) * dramsey (6) * hongphuc_ (4) * bochecha (1) * gnokii_ (1) * niteshnarayanlal (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot Kind regards, Tuan

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Summary/Minutes from today's Fedora Infrastructure meeting (2014-01-16)
by Kevin Fenzi 16 Jan '14

16 Jan '14

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2014-01-16) ============================================ Meeting started by nirik at 19:00:13 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-16/infrastructure.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * welcome all planets of the solar federation (nirik, 19:00:13) * New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks (nirik, 19:02:30) * LINK: http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/security-policy/en-US/html-sing… (willo, 19:08:01) * Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:15:00) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/datagrepper (threebean, 19:16:22) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages (threebean, 19:16:28) * new packages app ( epel bugs and enhancements) and datagrepper (new frontpage and fixes) rolled out last week. (nirik, 19:25:26) * new askbot in stg is almost working. need to fix email sending then we can schedule prod upgrade (nirik, 19:25:51) * hyperkitty roll out moving forward. Will make prod instances soon and start figuring out forwarding setup. (nirik, 19:26:23) * ACTION: nirik to write up a infra list post about how mailing lists are setup now, so we can decide how to add in mailman3/hyperkitty. (nirik, 19:31:03) * new coprs rolled out today (nirik, 19:31:24) * Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:34:32) * Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:43:47) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ (nirik, 19:43:47) * goal: finish round 1 of development and deploy fmn to production by the end of January. (threebean, 19:44:50) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:45:43) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jenkins@infra (nirik, 19:46:51) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Architecture there is a high overview (zemmiph0bia, 19:48:12) * LINK: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/nagios/ (nirik, 19:49:51) Meeting ended at 19:59:30 UTC. Action Items ------------ * nirik to write up a infra list post about how mailing lists are setup now, so we can decide how to add in mailman3/hyperkitty. Action Items, by person ----------------------- * nirik * nirik to write up a infra list post about how mailing lists are setup now, so we can decide how to add in mailman3/hyperkitty. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (120) * willo (36) * threebean (28) * johe_ (11) * abompard (10) * adimania (9) * zemmiph0bia (8) * danofsatx (8) * relrod (6) * zodbot (4) * kamina1 (4) * smooge (4) * dgilmore (4) * janeznemanic (3) * jlar (3) * tflink (1) * jsmith (1) * lmacken (1) * LoKoMurdoK (1) * mdomsch (0) * puiterwijk (0) * abadger1999 (0) * pingou (0) -- 19:00:13 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2014-01-16) 19:00:13 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 16 19:00:13 2014 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:13 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:13 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure 19:00:13 <nirik> #topic welcome all planets of the solar federation 19:00:13 <nirik> #chair smooge relrod nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean pingou puiterwijk 19:00:13 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 19:00:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge threebean 19:00:26 * relrod waves 19:00:42 * lmacken 19:00:44 * abompard is here 19:00:46 * threebean is here 19:00:50 * adimania is here 19:01:04 * johe_ (new one) is here 19:01:36 * jsmith is lurking 19:01:37 <dgilmore> hola 19:01:42 * jlar is new here 19:01:47 <zemmiph0bia> morning :) (New) 19:01:50 * willo is here 19:02:16 * tflink is lurking 19:02:16 <nirik> cool. Nice crowd today. ;) 19:02:30 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks 19:02:46 <nirik> any new folks like to give a short bio/intro? or apprentices with questions or comments? 19:02:54 * nirik sees a number of new folks today 19:03:04 <johe_> okay 19:03:39 <johe_> i introduced already to the list, so hi again, i am a 34 year old systemadministrator and would like to help 19:03:47 <johe_> :-) 19:03:57 <zemmiph0bia> I'm Elizabeta, developer on ratticdb and recovering sysadmin. Wanting to get added to the fi-apprentice fas group. 19:04:11 <nirik> welcome johe_ and zemmiph0bia! 19:04:19 * threebean waves "hello" 19:04:29 <adimania> Hi. I am Aditya. I graduated to sysadmin-badges a few months ago but had to take a break. 19:04:38 <nirik> happy to add you folks to our apprentice group... just see me in #fedora-admin after the meeting. 19:04:39 <threebean> adimania: welcome back :) 19:04:45 <adimania> Will get back in action and start contributing again. :) 19:04:51 <nirik> hey adimania. :) Welcome back 19:05:08 <adimania> threebean, nirik, thanks :) 19:05:25 <jlar> Hi, I'm Jon, I'm looking to keep my skills sharp as my current job doesn't have me doing a lot of linux stuff. I want to help out any way I can. 19:05:30 <nirik> johe_: you are more interested in sysadmin tasks? or application development? or both? 19:05:42 <nirik> zemmiph0bia: you are more interested in sysadmin I guess? 19:05:49 <nirik> welcome jlar. 19:05:58 <smooge> hwelcome 19:06:01 <johe_> nirik, well, the syadmin tasks would fit my skills i guess, as i am doing it every day :-) 19:06:24 <johe_> but i could/would like to take a look on development also 19:06:26 <zemmiph0bia> nirik, both. sysadmin is certainly what I'm better with but I'd like to get more into the development 19:06:35 <nirik> jlar: great. See me also after the meeting in #fedora-admin and we can help get you started. ;) 19:06:40 <nirik> zemmiph0bia: excellent. 19:06:50 <jlar> nirik: sounds good! 19:07:13 <nirik> #fedora-admin is our main channel, we also have #fedora-apps for development related stuff and #fedora-noc for sysadmin/outages/etc 19:07:34 <willo> nirik: I've got a Q when the intros are done 19:07:48 <nirik> willo: fire away. 19:07:57 <willo> I found a link to this page: 19:07:58 <nirik> any other new folks? 19:08:01 <willo> http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/security-policy/en-US/html-sing… 19:08:15 <willo> from the wiki. Can't recall exactly where it was. 19:08:37 <willo> There's an associated fedora hosted project - CSI 19:08:46 <nirik> indeed there is. ;) 19:09:08 <nirik> also, we folded it into the main docs too: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Community_Services_Infrastructure/1/htm… 19:09:18 <willo> Is this current policy on how the servers should be setup? 19:09:41 <willo> Or any other guidance on the SHOULD's, SHALL's and MUST's? 19:09:41 <nirik> in theory. It's something I've really not had time to keep current... 19:10:06 <nirik> if there's people interested in working on it again we could revive it somewhat 19:10:56 <nirik> there's good info in there (although probibly dated now) about how to setup your client machine as an admin... and how to handle security incidents, etc. 19:11:00 <johe_> nirik, i would join in :-) 19:12:32 * nirik ponders the best place to discuss changes there... I guess we could just use the main infra list at least to start. 19:13:03 <johe_> +1 19:13:22 <willo> I droped from channel for last 2 mins 19:13:25 <nirik> so, yeah, read thu and propose changes. ;) it would be great to get it updated. 19:13:27 <nirik> willo: oops. ;( 19:13:31 <nirik> let me repeat: 19:13:39 <nirik> in theory. It's something I've really not had time to keep current... 19:13:44 <nirik> if there's people interested in working on it again we could revive it somewhat 19:13:48 <nirik> there's good info in there (although probibly dated now) about how to setup your client machine as an admin... and how to handle security incidents, etc. 19:14:16 <willo> Cool, great. 19:14:37 <nirik> great topic. Thanks for bringing it up willo 19:15:00 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion 19:15:06 <willo> I was thinking that I could wrte some SCAP contentbased on tat 19:15:11 <nirik> any applications news or plans? 19:15:25 <threebean> willo: that would be pretty sweet 19:15:30 <nirik> willo: I think there was some talk about SCAP recently... perhaps ask Sparks when he's around? 19:15:39 <willo> will do 19:16:17 <threebean> on applications new, a new datagrepper and a new fedora-packages got deployed at the end of last week 19:16:22 <threebean> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/datagrepper 19:16:28 <threebean> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages 19:16:35 <nirik> I have one bit of application news. :) I've been trying to get the new version of askbot working in our staging setup. 19:16:42 <nirik> threebean: any big changes? 19:16:58 <threebean> enhancements to both. charul's been working on datagrepper... 19:17:13 * LoKoMurdoK here 19:17:16 <threebean> she added that counter to the frontpage and a new html representation of messages if you look at queries in your browser. 19:17:34 <relrod> threebean: What is the goal date for deploying fmn to prod? Is there one? 19:17:55 <threebean> fedora-packages got a search bugfix - it accepts slashes correctly now. 19:18:02 <threebean> it also displays EPEL bugs in the bugs list (finally) 19:18:03 <nirik> currently: I have askbot working at https://ask.stg.fedoraproject.org/ except for the email sending. Need to figure that our and get it working, then we can repave it and redeploy and make sure it's still good and then look at updating production 19:18:11 <nirik> welcome LoKoMurdoK 19:18:24 <dgilmore> buenos dias LoKoMurdoK 19:18:42 <dgilmore> nirik: i got some emails yesterday 19:18:49 <threebean> relrod: no concrete goal date for fmn -- we never set one (although I think we just said "january") 19:19:13 <nirik> dgilmore: yeah, there was a flood of old ones. I wiped those, but it's not sending any new ones for answers, etc that I can see. ;( 19:19:19 <threebean> pkgdb2 depends on it, but it looks like pingou will be busy with other stuff before he can get around to the pkgdb2 deployment. 19:19:44 <willo> nirik: I was also looking around at askbot in stg. You saw sme of the results in fedora-noc channel. I'll try and avoid tripping the orbital defence lasers in the future. :) 19:20:26 <nirik> note to new folks: do feel free to ask questions about what things are or what someone means. ;) It's always good to explain in more detail if folks want... 19:20:35 <nirik> willo: :) no worries. 19:20:54 <willo> I saw trying to find out how my public key gets from the staging fas into my home dir's authkeys file. Apologies. 19:21:52 <nirik> willo: we can sort it out. I think it's all ok now, but if you still see any issues please let me know. 19:22:28 <relrod> heh 19:22:57 <nirik> oh, in other application news, abompard and I have been exchanging some emails on hyperkitty roll out. I'm likely going to make some production instances soon to start figuring out setup. 19:23:23 <nirik> the biggest problem is going to be setting up just single lists to forward to the new setup from the old... or otherwise make sure they don't interfere. 19:23:42 <nirik> for both web and smtp. 19:23:53 <smooge> cool 19:24:05 <threebean> abompard: how's the caching situation look these days? iirc, when we first imported messages from the old lists into the staging hyperkitty instance 19:24:09 <nirik> so, we may need folks to put on their thinking caps as to how to do that. 19:24:16 <willo> Dropped again, but just from meeting channel. No message, just gets quite and then all the nicks disappear. I'll read what I missed in the meeting notes. 19:24:25 <threebean> .. well, you were looking at caching stuff, no? 19:24:35 <abompard> Caching in hyperkitty is waaaay better now 19:24:41 <threebean> \ó/ 19:24:50 <nirik> staging instance: https://lists.stg.fedoraproject.org/archives/ 19:24:51 <abompard> I'm using memcached 19:25:02 <threebean> oh yeah. that's quick :) 19:25:26 <nirik> #info new packages app ( epel bugs and enhancements) and datagrepper (new frontpage and fixes) rolled out last week. 19:25:50 <abompard> threebean: actually the best improvement is when archive are imported 19:25:51 <nirik> #info new askbot in stg is almost working. need to fix email sending then we can schedule prod upgrade 19:26:23 <nirik> #info hyperkitty roll out moving forward. Will make prod instances soon and start figuring out forwarding setup. 19:26:27 <abompard> because I was using some tables as a cache, which needed rebuilding. Now the cache is populated ondemand, from the requests. 19:27:07 <abompard> well there are quite a few non-visible improvements these days. And nirik is rebuilding my test server, which will be useful 19:27:36 <nirik> abompard: lists-dev should be redone, just needs some tweaks on the ansible playbook to finish 19:27:44 <abompard> nirik: yeah, will do soon 19:28:03 <abompard> nirik: I just finish my big commit here, and I'll do that 19:28:23 <nirik> excellent. 19:28:29 <threebean> cool :) 19:29:05 <nirik> abompard: I know our schedules are different, but perhaps next week we could meet up and sort out production forwarding... or perhaps it would be good for me to write up for the list the way things are now so we can figure it there. 19:29:22 <abompard> nirik: sure 19:29:32 <nirik> let me try and do a list post and we can go from there. 19:29:43 <abompard> nirik: great 19:30:04 <nirik> I am sure we can get it working, just will be a matter of the best place to splice in the new one without messing with the old. 19:30:38 <nirik> ok, any other applications news? 19:31:03 <nirik> #action nirik to write up a infra list post about how mailing lists are setup now, so we can decide how to add in mailman3/hyperkitty. 19:31:15 <nirik> oh, another thing: 19:31:24 <nirik> #info new coprs rolled out today 19:31:41 <threebean> relrod: do you have a preference on an fmn deployment goal date? 19:31:58 <relrod> threebean: Not particularly 19:32:15 <threebean> ok, we'll sort it out in #fedora-apps then I guess. 19:32:19 <relrod> threebean: By the end of January works for me, if that is still your goal 19:32:58 <nirik> for new folks: http://copr.fedoraproject.org/ is copr... fmn is a messaging preference application, only in staging so far: https://apps.stg.fedoraproject.org/notifications 19:34:29 <nirik> ok, moving along then... 19:34:32 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion 19:34:39 <nirik> lets see... 19:35:07 <nirik> not too much going on right now. 19:35:14 <nirik> I need to finish the ansible cron job... 19:35:26 <nirik> It sounds like folks wanted it to just run --check --diff each day 19:35:46 <nirik> I might try and migrate some more things from puppet to ansible soon. 19:36:12 <nirik> we have setup for those mailman01/02 in production pending 19:36:17 * adimania thinks that is interesting 19:36:45 <nirik> I might file a ticket asking for a script to help you make new instances in ansible. 19:36:57 <nirik> it's just a matter of copying some templates and editing them... 19:37:28 <zemmiph0bia> Are there tickets for the remaining stuff that's left in puppet that needs to get migrated? 19:37:55 * willo was wondering the same thing 19:38:02 <nirik> zemmiph0bia: there's not. it's just been 'as we get to it'. I posted a thing to the list a few weeks ago about the plan moving forward... 19:38:05 <adimania> I'll give it a shot. I understand puppet but I have very basic understanding of ansible. 19:38:18 <zemmiph0bia> adimania, ansible is exceptionally easy. 19:38:21 <nirik> if folks want to help out migrating that would be lovely. 19:38:25 <smooge> I am going to order some hardware tonight (whether it gets approved is another matter). I am doing some certs for coprs and I am catching up with other stuff from extra long vacation/disease marathon 19:38:31 <zemmiph0bia> I'd be happy to help with that, help my partner write a book on it :p 19:38:42 <nirik> zemmiph0bia: awesome! 19:38:59 <nirik> smooge: any news on that hw order? or same old same ol? 19:39:05 <willo> I'm keen to assist in the migration 19:39:28 <willo> Ansible learning experience 19:39:28 <smooge> nirik, I have heard nothing so I am going to do it anyway. 19:39:52 <nirik> some things are pretty trivial to move, just takes a bit of time... some things (like our proxy setup thats in puppet) will likely require more brainpower. ;( 19:40:02 <nirik> smooge: :( 19:40:50 <willo> So, I'm guessing as things are migrated, they're moved out of puppet pretty quickly 19:40:51 <nirik> so folks interested in ansiblle migrations bug me and I can try and get you started. :) 19:41:01 <nirik> willo: yep. We are only adding new stuff to ansible... 19:41:09 <threebean> question -> we still don't have a release schedule for Fedora 21, correct? which means we don't have a foreseeable infrastructure freeze on the horizon, correct? 19:41:12 <nirik> but we had a lot in puppet, so it's not a quick process 19:41:26 * adimania will go through http://docs.ansible.com/intro_getting_started.html before bugging nirik 19:41:27 <willo> So, anything that I can see in puppet is a list of things that need to be migrated, correct 19:41:28 <nirik> threebean: correct. we are no freezes until we know more. 19:41:33 * threebean nods 19:41:44 <threebean> that's a good thing for the migration effort ;) 19:41:56 <nirik> willo: yep. although... there's also some old junk in puppet that wasn't properly removed when things were retired... 19:42:11 <nirik> for example, I think our asterisk server is still in there, even tho it went away about 5 years ago 19:42:41 <nirik> anyhow, we will get there i hope. ;) 19:42:41 <dgilmore> there is a ton of legacy things in puppet 19:42:48 <willo> :) just to keep it interesting 19:42:52 <nirik> dgilmore: yeah. just old stuff. 19:43:35 <nirik> I still do want to do a FAD sometime (Fedora activity day, where we get folks to gather in the same physical location and work on one problem). finishing ansible migration is one possible topic. 19:43:47 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 19:43:47 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ 19:43:55 <willo> nirik: will hit you up in fedora-admin later tonight or the weekend. 19:44:01 <nirik> Anyone have upcoming tasks or items they want to schedule or note? 19:44:05 <nirik> willo: sounds good. 19:44:49 <nirik> okey dokey. 19:44:50 <threebean> #info goal: finish round 1 of development and deploy fmn to production by the end of January. 19:44:59 <nirik> sounds good. ;) 19:45:43 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:45:48 <nirik> any items for open floor? 19:46:00 <nirik> questions, comments, ideas, youtube videos? 19:46:23 <janeznemanic> nirik: may I ask you what is the purpose of jenkins in our cloud 19:46:51 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jenkins@infra 19:47:05 <nirik> see the 'what is' there. ;) 19:47:20 <janeznemanic> great 19:47:25 <willo> I'm a picture person. Are there currently any diagrams showing interactions between systems? 19:47:44 <willo> I understand that it would be complex, I suppose, I'm not sure just how complex 19:48:12 <zemmiph0bia> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Architecture there is a high overview 19:48:18 <nirik> well, there's: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Architecture talking about our proxy setup, but ti might be pretty out of date 19:48:24 <nirik> yeah. :) 19:48:26 <zemmiph0bia> :p 19:48:29 <willo> Yeah, saw that one 19:48:38 <willo> Would any more diagrams like this be useful? 19:48:48 <nirik> there was someone interested in making a network diagram a while back, but they just wandered off. 19:48:57 <willo> Or is it changing to quickly to keep up to date 19:48:59 <nirik> if someone would like to make one, it could be useful yeah 19:49:01 <threebean> heh, there's a fedmsg diagram -> http://www.fedmsg.com/en/latest/topology/ 19:49:05 <threebean> also somewhat out of date 19:49:12 <willo> :) 19:49:27 <danofsatx> Since Nagios is running, can't it spit out a diagram? 19:49:36 <willo> well network is defintely up my alley, I could start there 19:49:40 <nirik> danofsatx: it can yeah. 19:49:51 <nirik> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/nagios/ 19:50:15 <johe_> on nagios again? wasnt it zabbix? 19:50:42 <nirik> we were never fully on zabbix. There was an attempted migration, but it was scrapped. 19:50:43 <willo> Looked at nagios before and I got password prompt 19:50:56 <adimania> won't it depend on the parents which we defined? 19:50:58 <willo> guess fi-apprentice doesn't give me the power...:_ 19:51:14 <johe_> nirik, well i was on the noc team when they did the switch, was just a bit confused 19:51:35 <adimania> the map at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/nagios/ looks too cluttered :( 19:51:40 <nirik> willo: you should be able to use your fedora account login/pass there. 19:51:52 <willo> I think anything out of nagios is only as good as your service checks and dependancies 19:51:58 <nirik> adimania: yes, it's based on what nagios has... but I think it's actually reasonably accurate now. 19:52:12 <willo> Which can be hard to describe a lot of interactions about data flow 19:52:17 <nirik> johe_: yeah, that was before I was too involved... 19:53:28 <nirik> anyhow, does that answer the question? 19:54:03 <janeznemanic> it's complicated and big 19:54:19 <nirik> any other items for open floor? 19:54:23 <danofsatx> Since I'm here, I'd like to give a quick intro of myself to the infra team. I haven't sent the email to the list yet, though. 19:54:31 <willo> nirik: ah, ok cool. 19:54:36 <kamina1> Hi, I missed the introduction session. So, may I introduce myself? 19:54:36 <johe_> janeznemanic, true, but nagios cant display the relation, such maps are always huge 19:54:54 <nirik> danofsatx / kamina1: welcome. Please do. 19:54:59 <willo> Didn't try that after my mention in fedora-noc :) 19:55:24 <danofsatx> My name is dan, fas dmossor - I am a 20+ year veteran of the IT feild, and maintain three separate mixed CentOS/Fedora/Windows networks in my day job. 19:56:06 <kamina1> Thanks. I am Kamina. Currently, I live in Germany. I am fresh college grad, looking for improving my skills in coding and contribute to open source 19:56:17 <danofsatx> Technically, I am a Cisco certified network engineer, but I can work with anything 19:56:33 <nirik> excellent. Welcome to both of you. 19:56:38 <kamina1> Thanks 19:56:44 <nirik> are you more interested in sysadmin or application development ? or both? 19:56:50 <danofsatx> about the only thing I can't do in IT is coding - my job is to make sure the coders can do theirs. 19:57:04 <kamina1> I am interested in Application Dev 19:57:19 <danofsatx> and I in sysadmin/NOC work 19:57:24 <nirik> cool. 19:57:40 <willo> danofsatx: welcome from a fellow network engineer 19:57:52 <danofsatx> thanks willo ;) 19:58:01 <nirik> for sysadmin, see me after the meeting in #fedora-admin and we can get you added to the apprentice group, for applications, see #fedora-apps and we can get you pointed in the right direction. ;) 19:58:20 <nirik> ok, we are almost out of time... anything else before we close out the meeting? 19:58:33 <threebean> busy meeting today! 19:58:37 <threebean> good to see so many new people :) 19:58:39 <nirik> yeah, great stuff. 19:58:44 <nirik> always good seeing new folks... 19:58:49 <danofsatx> I'll tackle the diagram, in consultation with willo 19:59:14 <relrod> \o/ 19:59:16 <nirik> great. Happy to assist. 19:59:22 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone! 19:59:30 <nirik> #endmeeting

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Summary/Minutes from today's FPC Meeting (2014-01-16 17:00 - 19:00 UTC)
by James Antill 16 Jan '14

16 Jan '14

====================== #fedora-meeting-1: fpc ====================== Meeting started by abadger1999 at 17:03:12 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2014-01-16/fpc.2014-01-16… . Meeting summary --------------- * roll call (abadger1999, 17:03:23) * #339 software collections in Fedora (abadger1999, 17:06:52) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/339 (abadger1999, 17:07:01) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/379 (abadger1999, 17:12:07) * Proposal for language bindings to be named $language-$foo, *not* $foo-$language (old packages grandfathered but cleanups are welcomed) APPROVED (+1:7, 0:0, -1:0) (abadger1999, 18:08:46) * #380 code::blocks bundling (abadger1999, 18:11:00) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/381 (abadger1999, 18:14:06) * #383 Bundled library exception request for libgsystem (abadger1999, 18:21:28) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/383 (abadger1999, 18:21:33) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/382 (abadger1999, 18:29:29) * FPC members, please add problems you see with the golang guidelines to the ticket. We'll see if there's a way to address them afterwards (abadger1999, 19:02:43) Meeting ended at 19:09:29 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * abadger1999 (160) * tibbs|w (49) * limburgher (41) * geppetto (28) * RemiFedora (13) * racor (10) * zodbot (8) * Rathann (8) * SmootherFrOgZ (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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meetingminutes January 2014