December 2012 - music - Fedora mailing-lists

Low Latency vs. Real Time Kernel
by Brian Monroe 10 Nov '14

10 Nov '14

I've been spending a lot of time on the #opensourcemusicians channel talking to Ubuntu Studio users about their kernel and latency times they're getting. Seems like most of them are using g a stock kernel with the preemptive option enabled and they are getting great latency results (2ms)while utilizing the @audio group on their user. I ended up compiling my own low latency kernel and I haven't had any issues with it yet. If this is what we are missing for the spin I'd be happy to maintain packaging for the kernel. I know ccrma has been behind a few kernel releases. I saw the instructions for adding the real time patch for a tick less kernel and from what I can tell it wouldn't be hard to get that rolling as well. I'm not entirely sure what ccrma does differently with their kernels compared to other Linux users, and I'm still a bit of a noob so I could be off base with this, but I would reason that we should be able to just utilize the same settings to archive similar performance enhancements. I thought I read that ccrma uses a unique scheduler, but if we could get a 2ms latency time without it, the point may be moot.

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Thanks to everyone and Merry Christmas
by Christopher Antila 27 Dec '12

27 Dec '12

On 25 December 2012 21:19:50 M. Edward Borasky wrote: > Is there a master list of documentation? I sort of missed the deadline for anything official, so for Fedora 18 we're going to have to go with the usual "Fedora Audio"-style menagerie. Over the next week, I hope to start collecting all of our discussions through the spin development process, so that we'll be able to write: 1.) A chronicle of the efforts it tooks us to actually make a spin. 2.) Official documentation to add to the Musicians' Guide, about the software in the spin, the differences between it and a default Live Fedora installation, and maybe a brief history. 3.) Unofficial documentation for the wiki, about additional things you can do, that we can't write in the official docs... like "here's how to install the realtime kernel" and "here's how to install MP3 support for Audacity" and other things. I expect that much of this already exists, and I'll just have to start collecting things. > I'm itching to go into full-on blogging / tweeting mode on this. Why not start right away, with a blog post that describes your involvement in the spin's development? In fact, if several of us did this, we'd have a really interesting "chronicle of the efforts it took us to actually make a spin." Christopher

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Thanks to everyone and Merry Christmas
by Jørn Loamx 25 Dec '12

25 Dec '12

I would like to thank everyone for their participation this year on making the Fedora Music Spin a reality. It was by all means a group effort so we can all give ourselves a pat on the back and say "job well done" (Do it now! Don't think you don't deserve it). Now that we have our own ISO built every night and we can official call ourselves *Fedora* Jam, we have completed the first step. Now we have to work together to make this the best audio- and music-creation/ Linux distro out there. This will need a lot of community work and spreading the word as much as possible. We also need to make sure the software is up to scratch, so bug reporting and testing will be very important. So keep up the good work, and have a nice relaxing Christmas holiday. I hope we can keep up the momentum after the Holidays and I'm looking forward to continue contributing in the coming year. Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year -Jørn Lomax NB: (If this is considered off topic, please accept my sincere apologies)

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First nightly build
by Brendan Jones 24 Dec '12

24 Dec '12

Can be found here: x86_64 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=4816170 i386 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=4816171 Brendan

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spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam
by Brendan Jones 23 Dec '12

23 Dec '12

spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks | 4 ++-- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) New commits: commit 708ff58d1b5f61a5cdfe79d4c72a981ae26555d0 Author: Brendan Jones <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu Dec 20 15:43:07 2012 +0100 Add kernel tools, harmonyseq diff --git a/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks b/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks index 79626df..531b3c4 100644 --- a/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks +++ b/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks @@ -56,7 +56,7 @@ fluidsynth-dssi timidity++ qmidiarp vmpk -#harmonyseq +harmonyseq #synthesis hydrogen @@ -173,7 +173,7 @@ screen shutter -ksnapshot multimedia-menus - +kernel-tools #Include Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird

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Fwd: [Fedora-spins] [spin-kickstarts/f18] kde: drep reference(s) to system-config-printer-kde
by Brendan Jones 23 Dec '12

23 Dec '12

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Fedora-spins] [spin-kickstarts/f18] kde: drep reference(s) to system-config-printer-kde Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 19:59:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)fedoraproject.org> Reply-To: The Spin Special Interest Group mailing list <spins(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> To: spins(a)lists.fedoraproject.org commit be9c407468765bcad736e7ccabf944d92af26136 Author: Rex Dieter <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> Date: Sat Dec 22 13:59:16 2012 -0600 kde: drep reference(s) to system-config-printer-kde fedora-live-kde-base.ks | 4 ---- 1 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/fedora-live-kde-base.ks b/fedora-live-kde-base.ks index 88fe337..9677908 100644 --- a/fedora-live-kde-base.ks +++ b/fedora-live-kde-base.ks @@ -14,10 +14,6 @@ ### fixes -# use system-config-printer-kde instead of system-config-printer --system-config-printer -system-config-printer-kde - %end _______________________________________________ spins mailing list spins(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins

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spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam
by Brendan Jones 20 Dec '12

20 Dec '12

spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks | 11 ++++------- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-) New commits: commit e10dafcc3578d1b69a09fc8d6929be2408bb86bf Author: Brendan Jones <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu Dec 20 17:20:44 2012 +0100 Merge changes from spin-kickstarts repo diff --git a/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks b/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks index 531b3c4..78f39d0 100644 --- a/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks +++ b/spin-kickstarts/fedora-jam/fedora-live-jam-kde.ks @@ -9,20 +9,17 @@ # Maintainer: Jørn Lomax <northlomax(a)gmail.com> # https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:jvlomax - -# Last modified: Jun 28, 2012. +# Brendan Jones <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com> +# Last modified: Dec 20, 2012. %include fedora-livecd-kde.ks -# increase partition size -part / --size 4096 --fstype ext4 +# DVD size partition +part / --size 10240 --fstype ext4 #enable threaded irqs bootloader --append="threadirqs" -# DVD payload -part / --size 10000 - %packages #alsa

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new spin compose / fix to favourites
by Ian Malone 19 Dec '12

19 Dec '12

Hi, I've committed a change that should fix the problem of the install option still showing up on the installed system that Edward Borasky found. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=883367 A new compose is at http://imalone.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Jam-64bit-20121205.iso this also includes the changes Jørn made in response to Christoph Wickert's suggestions. We no longer have our own theme set automatically :( still, there are rules, we have to play by them. Will see if I can add anything to the Jack/Pulse stuff on the wiki this weekend, was holding off while I tried to figure out if anything would be likely to be different to previously, but it seems not. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk

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New packages requiring reviews
by Brendan Jones 19 Dec '12

19 Dec '12

Hi all, here's some new LV2 plugins up for review. If any packagers could review these that would be great (very simple reviews). lv2-newtonator - an LV2 soft synth using velocity and [1][2] lv2-triceratops - An LV2 polyphonic synthesizer [3][4] lv2-fomp-plugins - 13 plugins by Fons Adraenson ported from LADSPA [5][6] Triceratops is pretty awesome, although under heavy development. Minaton coming soon, just waiting on an update form upstream. regards, Brendan [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=887769 [2] https://sourceforge.net/projects/newtonator [3] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=887756 [4] https://sourceforge.net/projects/triceratops/ [5] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=887750 [6] http://drobilla.net/software/fomp/

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Calf plugin news
by Brendan Jones 15 Dec '12

15 Dec '12

The new look calf plugins 0.19.0 has been released. This comes at somewhat of a cost as LADSPA and DSSI support has been deprecated. KxStudio have since forked the project incorporating the new look GUI whilst retaining LADSPA / DSSI and external LV2 UI support. Not sure what I'm going to do about this state of affairs (if anyone was wondering why we haven't updated calf yet) I probably will just submit the fork for review under a new name. http://calf.sourceforge.net/ http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Plugins

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Timidity/Rosegarden issues
by A. A. 14 Dec '12

14 Dec '12

I'm not sure if this is the right place to send this. If there's a better place where I can get help, please tell me. I made a rosegarden project and exported it to a MIDI file. When I play this file with Timidity it sounds wrong- too much sustain on every single note. The original file still sounds fine on Rosegarden though. I wanted to check whether the problem is in the exporting or in the playing (in Rosegarden or in Timidity) by importing the MIDI file to Rosegarden, but now when I open QJackCtl it stops immediately after I press "start", so I can't play anything with Rosegarden. Another issue I had (when QJackCtl worked properly) was that Rosegarden constantly crashed every now and then. Can anyone help me? Here's the output from QJackCtl, in case it's relevant: 23:46:36.389 Patchbay deactivated. 23:46:36.390 Statistics reset. 23:46:36.392 ALSA connection change. Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server socket jack server is not running or cannot be started 23:46:36.399 ALSA connection graph change. (qjackctl:1955): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_get_direction: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed (qjackctl:1955): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_get_direction: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed 23:46:42.259 ALSA connection graph change. 23:46:42.416 ALSA connection change. 23:47:45.756 JACK is starting... 23:47:45.757 /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p1024 -n2 Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server socket jack server is not running or cannot be started (qjackctl:1955): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_get_direction: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed (qjackctl:1955): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_get_direction: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed 23:47:45.781 JACK was started with PID=1994. Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted jackdmp 1.9.8 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. Copyright 2004-2011 Grame. jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 60 Cannot lock down 107302426 byte memory area (Cannot allocate memory) control device hw:0 control device hw:0 audio_reservation_init Acquire audio card Audio0 creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit control device hw:0 ALSA: Cannot open PCM device alsa_pcm for playback. Falling back to capture-only mode Cannot initialize driver JackServer::Open() failed with -1 Failed to open server 23:47:46.131 JACK was stopped with exit status=255. PS: note that I don't know much about Linux or Fedora or these programs.

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fedora-jam-kde-theme-1.0.1-2.fc18
by Brendan Jones 11 Dec '12

11 Dec '12

Can we get some additional karma here? Thanks https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2012-19785/fedora-jam-kde-th…

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] new spin compose / fix to favourites
by Christopher Antila 10 Dec '12

10 Dec '12

On 10 December 2012 21:56:20 Ian Malone wrote: > I'm happy to > make revisions for clarity or easier reading, but someone else will > have to do the dumbing down if that's what's wanted. I think we have the same goal in mind. My imaginary five-year-old already knows about sound recording... Christopher

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] new spin compose / fix to favourites
by Christopher Antila 10 Dec '12

10 Dec '12

Hi: On 9 December 2012 22:21:44 Brendan Jones wrote: > On 12/09/2012 09:52 PM, Ian Malone wrote: > > Made some updates to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit#Integrate_Jack_wi > > th_Pulseaudio > That's great Ian. Thanks Agreed! I'll steal some of these things back into the Musicians' Guide when I get a chance... which should *actually* happen next week (gasp!) I would like to offer some simple suggestions for revision: 1.) Always use the same, correct name for everything. "JACK" is always "JACK" and never "jack" or "Jack." It's "D-Bus" not "DBus." It's "PulseAudio" not "pulse" or "Pulse" or "Pulse Audio" or "Pulseaudio" or "pulseaudio." This helps less experienced users and non-English readers know that you are always talking about the same thing. If I've never used Linux before, how am I supposed to know for sure that "DBus" and "D-Bus" (for example) are the same thing? 2.) Technical words should always be formatted distinctly: application/program names (like QJackCtl), system components (like JACK), filenames (like /etc/security/limits.conf), commands (like "ulimit -a"). On the Wiki, the Documentation Project's standard is that program names are italic, system components are bold, filenames and commands are fixed-width. 3.) Write like your audience is five years old. For one thing, they could be. More likely, especially as English speakers, we have to keep in mind that there are a lot of people whose first language is *not* English and who may only have the English skills of a five-year-old (however intelligent they may actually be). We want them to be able to use our documentation too, so we should make everything as simple as possible. This is by far the hardest part for me. As an example, consider the first sentence of "Integrate Jack [sic] with PulseAudio": "Jack will ask Pulse Audio through D-Bus for ownership of the sound card." I know exactly what that means, but consider it as though you were five. First question is "who is Jack?" Even if it were "JACK," this sentence treats some software as though it were a person. Software doesn't "ask" for things, and cannot "own" things. Plus, the "through D-Bus" part is a little awkward. I propose an alternative: "JACK uses D-Bus to gain control of the sound card from PulseAudio." It's still not great, but it's a little better. All of that being said, I appreciate your work here, and I obviously understand that the wiki is a place where things are *supposed to* start out rough and get polished up later. I especially like the level of detail you put here, as evidenced by the multiple options in the "Integrate..." section, and that you clearly intend to recommend DBus as the "best choice" when it eventually works. So keep at it! Further contributions on this or other topics would be greatly appreciated! Christopher

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Spin Approval
by Christopher Antila 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

On 5 December 2012 18:25:31 Brendan Jones wrote: > >> LaTeX / TeXLive is *humongous*! A "moderate" installation is at least > >> 300 MB and the whole boat comes to about 3 GB. Inkscape (and Scribus > >> and GIMP and a video editor and sometimes Blender) are usually found > >> on "multimedia" distros, so I'd like to see them. And of course CSound > >> needs to be on an *audio* distro. > > > > I agree. I don't think we *need* LaTex. What propose would it serve in > > the spin. We already have lilypad for engraving. Inkskape and gimp i > > would like to see still be on the spin, but i won't cry if we remove them > > Some have mentioned post-production of scores. It was probably me. Frankly, I think we definitely don't need Scribus or especially Blender. GIMP and Inkscape are useful for modifying LilyPond output, and they're pretty small (Inkscape especially). I'm also willing to say we don't really need LaTeX because: 1.) I highly doubt there are a large number of people who aren't me but would still like to use Fedora Jam for writing academic music papers with LilyPond and LaTeX. 2.) Even I don't use the distribution-provided LaTeX because it's quite old. > > What is the default email client in KDE? > > kmail I'd imagine Yes, KMail and the Kontact suite. If default Fedora has a default of something, and "something" isn't an audio-specific thing, I feel we shouldn't change it. Let's waste our time on audio-specific things because, at the end of the day, nobody (reasonable) will avoid Fedora Jam *just because* we use the default Fedora browser instead of the default KDE browser. Christopher

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ctrlr
by Martin Tarenskeen 06 Dec '12

06 Dec '12

Hi, has anyone succesfully tried ctrlr ( http://ctrlr.org ) on a Fedora system? The screenshots on the website look promising, but the provided Linux binary (I tried the 32bit version) crashes on my Fedora 17 system. I have not tried building from sources yet. Anyone? -- MT

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Software that could be included in Fedora JAM
by <<<.F.G.P.>>> 06 Dec '12

06 Dec '12

Hello. I see that Fedora JAM is on the right path. I suggest some software that you could include if they seem useful. First and foremost, it is essential realtime kernel (Sorry I have not tried the kerenel that included, as I am running from a Virtualbox.) Azr3 (http://ll-plugins.nongnu.org/azr3/) Hammond emulator. Yoshimi (http://yoshimi.sourceforge.net/) Yoshimi is a software synthesizer for Linux based on the 2.4.0 release of ZynAddSubFX,. Spek (http://spek-project.org/) a simple and efficient spectrum analyzer. Sonic Visualiser (http://www.sonicvisualiser.org/) Sonic Visualiser is an application for viewing and analysing the contents of music audio files. DR14 T.meter ( http://dr14tmeter.scienceontheweb.net/index.php?title=Main_Page) a simple command line tool that compute the DR (dynamic range) of the audio files in your music collection. DISTRHO (http://distrho.sourceforge.net/ports.php) Audio plugins and Linux ports. Impro-Visor (http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~keller/jazz/improvisor/) is a music notation program designed to help jazz musicians compose and hear solos similar to ones that might be improvised. Triceratops (http://sourceforge.net/projects/triceratops/) LV2 Substractive Poly Synth QSampler (http://qsampler.sourceforge.net/qsampler-index.html) A LinuxSampler Qt GUI Interface (note: I'm not sure if it requires non-free software) Also you could include some banks such as sound of http://sonimusicae.free.fr/blanchet1-en.html. In any case, a download link for the ISO is not so big. Congratulations for your work and I look forward to the final version!

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Spin Approval
by Brendan Jones 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

On 12/02/2012 10:11 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: > Hi Brendan, > hi Jorn, > > sorry again for the late reply. > > Am Samstag, den 01.12.2012, 20:04 +0100 schrieb Brendan Jones: > >> - we have added a kernel boot parameter 'threadirqs' - prerequisite of >> the rtirq package to prioritize software IRQs (very useful for dealing >> with latency of audio devices) > > This is controversial, but I see nothing wrong with it. As long as there > is no guideline that explicitly forbids it, I am willing to allow it. > >> - we have packaged out own background and our own KDE theme. The >> background is simply the Spherical Cow them with a wave form >> superimposed (fedora-jam-backgrounds). >> - we have packaged our own KDE theme - this has spherical cow as a >> direct dependency and is only required so we can use the background >> image by default (for the desktop and splash) The package is >> fedora-jam-kde-theme > > As long as everything is packaged, I see nothing wrong with it. This > being said I would rather like to have the files you add > to /etc/skel/.kde/ in %post as part of a package. I am not a KDE user, > so I don't know if it is possible or would it collide with other > packages. > >> - you can see the hack where we've made the logged in user a member of >> the audio group by default. This is required by >> jack-audio-connection-kit - it prioritizes processes running under this >> group. Again very improtant for latency issues. > > I see your point, but the modifications > to /usr/share/firstboot/modules/create_user.py are a no-go. You need to > move the sed commands to the livesys init script, so the changes will > only be applied to the live system but not to the installed packages. > Even this is controversial (think of translations), but again as long as > it not explicitly forbidden, I'll turn a blind eye to it. > >> jack-audio-connection-kit packages a limits.d/ file to do this > > No problem, everything form a package is fine. > >> anyway - the rest is a stock standard KDE kickstart - we haven't even >> deleted any packages. > > You probably should to save some space. I doubt that musicians are > interested in all the stuff KDE offers and be eliminating everything > irrelevant applications, , you could in fact shift the focus more to > music. But that's up to you. > >> Anyway, please keep me updated. > > I have just approved your ks and wiki page. Please make the > modifications to the ks ASAP. > > Next steps: > 1. Get the ks into the nightlies > 2. Get the ks into the spins-kickstart package. Fortunately the > deadline is 2012-12-11. > 3. Call for a meeting of the spins SIG for approval > 4. Get board approval > 5. I will add this to the board meeting agenda on Wednesday. > > I have to apologize to the two of you. I am incredibly busy with my > dayjob and have failed horribly as a spins wrangler, but I am trying my > best to get your spin in F18. > > Kind regards, > Christoph > > Forwarding to the music-list for reference. regards, Brendan

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System configuration
by <<<.F.G.P.>>> 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

Hello. I leave this guide to optimize Linux as audio workstation. Fedora JAM would be nice to include these adjustments. Greetings. http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] [Bug 805236] Tracker: Fedora Audio Spin
by Ian Malone 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

On 5 December 2012 01:12, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky <znmeb(a)znmeb.net> wrote: Hope you don't mind, I've cc-ed the music list. > Where do I file a bug against the kickstart file? It looks like the last > round of changes messed it up. It's looking for a package > 'realTimeConfigQuickScan' and not finding it > > I'm not entirely sure, I put the last issue in bugzilla as a bug against distribution the same as the tracker spin, if doing that then it's probably best to make it clear it's an issue with our kickstart. Probably take it to the mailing list first, esp. as it's Brendan and Jørn who are the official ks custodians. That said, some of the packages (such as realTimeConfigQuickScan) are F18 only, which is probably what's happening. Since it's targeting F18 release they probably wont change, it's technically possible to do what the official spins repo does and branch for releases but that might be too much overhead right now. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Spin Approval
by Brendan Jones 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

On 12/04/2012 01:46 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: > Am Dienstag, den 04.12.2012, 08:29 +0100 schrieb Brendan Jones: >> On 12/02/2012 10:11 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: >> >>> I see your point, but the modifications >>> to /usr/share/firstboot/modules/create_user.py are a no-go. You need to >>> move the sed commands to the livesys init script, so the changes will >>> only be applied to the live system but not to the installed packages. >>> Even this is controversial (think of translations), but again as long as >>> it not explicitly forbidden, I'll turn a blind eye to it. >>> >> >> Is there a right way to do this? > > Hi Brendan, > > I'm afraid there is no really right way unless it gets configurable in > firstboot. > >> I tried to find one but I couldn't see >> an option in kickstart to make this happen. I could probably provide a >> patch to firstboot (I think this would be really useful) but obviously >> it will be too late for this release. > > It's definitely too late for this release and I doubt such a patch would > be accepted as it has no use case outside this spin. Fair enough > >> Or is this something which should >> go into pam or somewhere else? > > How would you do this in pam? > >> Alternatively we could add this to %post in jack-audio-connection-kit >> but I'm not sure if this is considered safe in a critical-path package > > It is not considered safe in *any* package. You must not own or modify > files that are owned by another package (unless of course your package > is a configuration utility and the file in question is a config file) > and if you absolutely have to, you have to do it in the inscript so that > the changes only apply to the live system but don't end up on the > installed system. I meant creating the group in %post (not editing a file owned by firstboot). But the problem of assigning group membership still remains. Alternatively, we could package something which gets kicked off via xdg/autostart that could detect this and request sudo priveledges to add the X user to the group. All really messy and too late now. There is a package realTimeConfigQuickScan which potentially could be kicked off at start, but having it persist post first log in is really annoying. So yes, we have two problems to solve here the liveuser and the installed user. liveuser is OK - the installed user is not. How do other packages handle this? How can a package know to give a particular user group membership? I can't see a way out of this without user intervention. For F19 I will submit the firtboot patch based on the config file and see if I can make a good case for it. If we do make changes to packages to fix these issues (not specifically this issue), how can we ensure that the updates are part of the final buildroot (and not only in updates) <snip>

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Spin Approval
by Ian Malone 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

On 5 December 2012 14:45, Christoph Wickert <cwickert(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 05.12.2012, 14:16 +0000 schrieb Ian Malone: > >> The general question of how a spin might be customised while still >> staying within Fedora is perhaps something that needs to go to the >> devel list. > > I agree, but this is more of a policy question. We had this topic > already with other spins but most of the time we made exceptions (or > not) and never really updated the policies. It's too late for this now > either. > I was hoping it might produce some creative ideas, but it sounds like that grounds already been covered then. >> I do wonder if there's a systemd / seat based solution to this, will >> raise that on the devel list. > > I think it's more of a polkit thing. If we only need to execute > application foo with privileges of user/group bar, we could just ship a > configuration file that allows users to run this application through > pkexec. > > Bug again, I need more info in order to help you. > Okay, I think Brendan has answered the 'why'. I suspect what we need to do is check what needs access to those groups. For real-time privileges it may be that the plugins working with jack need them, or it might be that just jack does. I'm not sure either what access the audio group is used for, I think for Jack it may be priorities rather than just the old purpose of access to audio devices (which pulse for example now solves through the seat idea afaik). Will check the limits file Brendan mentions when I get time. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Spin Approval
by Brendan Jones 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

On 12/05/2012 03:41 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 05.12.2012, 11:32 +0100 schrieb Brendan Jones: >> >> I meant creating the group in %post (not editing a file owned by >> firstboot). > > Sorry, now I am lost. > > What group, 'audio' or 'jackuser'? How are these groups created, what > privileges do they have and are privileges assigned to these groups? > AFAIK jackuser is created by the jack-audio-connection-kit package, but > what about audio? What is the reason for this group anyway? Basically processes run with this group are subject to priority escalation as described by limits.d file in the jack-audio-connection-kit package. This is a real concern for audio users. Another use case for a firstboot patch is the pulse-rt group, although I'm unsure of the implications. > >> But the problem of assigning group membership still remains. > > Right, but it will continue to remain even with this modification, > because we only "fix" the very first user that gets created, but not > subsequent ones. > >> Alternatively, we could package something which gets kicked off via >> xdg/autostart that could detect this and request sudo priveledges to add >> the X user to the group. > > That won't help either. Autostart is executed after a user logs in. If > he then is added to a group, he'd need to log in again to allow all > running applications picking up the change. > >> All really messy and too late now. > > Ack. > >> There is a package realTimeConfigQuickScan which potentially could be >> kicked off at start, but having it persist post first log in is really >> annoying. > > What exactly does this package do? I am really trying to help you but in > order to do so, I need more info. What privileges do we need, what > applications do we need to run or what devices to access? It basically is a check to see if the logged in user can do all it needs for "optimal" audio. By itself it does nothing, does not even need root privileges to do these checks > >> So yes, we have two problems to solve here the liveuser and the >> installed user. liveuser is OK - the installed user is not. How do other >> packages handle this? How can a package know to give a particular user >> group membership? I can't see a way out of this without user intervention. > > I don't think we have a way to add users to a group, at least not on a > packaging level. We don't even seem to be able to do this on the > commandline as /etc/default/useradd can only configure the default group > but not additional default groups. Short of adding every user to said package, I agree (and think that is no solution). I think you an Ian may have something with the seat/polkit idea. > >> For F19 I will submit the firtboot patch based on the config file and >> see if I can make a good case for it. > > There is not much use if it is not configurable. I'm afraid that more > people will then come with requests for one or the other group. > Hardcoding groups in firstboot does not fly. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. Something like groups=... in the firstboot config file, a programmatic solution rather than our hack.

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Re: [Fedora-music-list] Spin Approval
by Brendan Jones 04 Dec '12

04 Dec '12

On 12/04/2012 01:46 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: <snip> > > But now I realize the problem: We are modifying firstboot and not > anaconda, so we need the change on the installed system, at least at the > very first boot after installation. Correct? Yes - there are two really important points to consider (correct me if I' wrong here team) everything else can go by the wayside #1 is audio group membership, number #2 is threadirqs A VERY nice to have is the themeing because artists tend to be a select bunch and first impressions count for something. Without the themeing I guess the kickstart is ready. I can't see why adding the /etc/skel stuff to a package helps anyone. If anything it adds unexpected config changes... regards, Brendan

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Meeting tonight 23.00 UTC
by Jørn Loamx 04 Dec '12

04 Dec '12

Morning/afternoon all There will be a short meeting tonight on IRC (#fedora-audio on freenode) at 23.00 UTC. I will create and add to the agenda on the wiki[1] throughout the day. Anyone can add to it if the want too. I'm sorry for the short notice, but hopefully as many as possible can make it. If there are any questions, don't hesitate to take contact :D -- Jørn Lomax Nestleder Studentutvalget NT-Fak CS Student University of Tromsø Blog: http://lurimax.posterous.com/

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music December 2012