Re: [Fedora-music-list] music Digest, Vol 44, Issue 26

[William Blackburn]

In response to Bernardo,

Unless the threads got mixed up, I think it was Bernardo who suggested making a very nice Fedora Musician/Podcaster Guide.  Fedora has a very good name and reputation and leaving the Fedora name as it is may be the best option.  We all can agree that it is not very time consuming to make a Fedora install ready for music and pod cast production.  And in doing this, users get exposed to CCRMA, and other things that they may not look at otherwise.  Maybe we could make a Live .iso and have a nice "howto" that will explain how to tweak the original Fedora install.  I am not sure if this is allowed, but the "howto" Wiki could be as simple as copying and pasting and giving credit where credit is due.

I have one question.   Wouldn't the real time kernel be compromised when using a live .iso?  I am new to real time pre-emption so you might need to dumb it down for me :).
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: music Digest, Vol 44, Issue 26
> To: [e-mail]
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:27:54 +0000
>
> Send music mailing list submissions to
>    [e-mail]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    [e-mail]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    [e-mail]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of music digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
> Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Christopher R. Antila)
> Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Karsten Wade) (William Blackburn)
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:40:44 -0400
> From: "Christopher R. Antila" 
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin
> To: Bernardo Barros 
> Cc: fedora-music-list ,
>    [e-mail]
> Message-ID:
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi:
>
> The Fedora Musicians' Guide is an official document being prepared by the
> Documentation Project.  This carries much more weight than a wiki.
>
> That said, increased participation would be great, and the Musicians' Guide
> is already on the Fedora wiki in my User: pages.  These could easily be
> transferred into the real wiki, and maintained in sync or independently of
> the official documentation, but I don't know if that sort of duplication is
> a good idea.  What we certainly could do is write complementary chapters
> with programs that aren't (yet) in the official guide.  Besides, as an
> open-source project, the official guide itself is already like a wiki in
> that people with free time can contribute with what they know best.
>
> As for the current state of the Guide, the (terrible) first draft has been
> finished for a week, and is available on the wiki.  It's now been converted
> to DocBook (the format used by the Fedora Docs website), and is stored in a
> git repository on a fedorahosted.org account.  The plan is to post a draft
> to the Fedora Docs website this Tuesday, incorporating many improvements.
> I'll post a notice to this list when the draft is ready - the more people
> who can read it and find errors, the better!
>
> The wiki version of the Musicians' Guide, from this point, is not the most
> recent version.  Notices will be posted soon to indicate this.
>
> Christopher.
>
> On 30 July 2010 18:11, Bernardo Barros  wrote:
> > Why not make the Fedora Musician's Guide a wiki like project that
> > people with some free time could contribute with they know best? There
> > is already the FLOSS manual for Ardour and PureData that has already
> > done some work in this direction. And it is nice because you can make
> > a snapshot of the wiki and print a PDF from the website.
> >
> > 2010/7/30 Karsten Wade :
> > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:19:32AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> > > > Same here as in the Fedora side, not enough manpower (and not enough
> > > > demand, it is easy to install Fedora and then add a repo for any
> > > > additional packages).
> > >
> > > I tend to agree, just wanted to reiterate my offer from another place
> > > in this thread.  If there were enough interest to do 'Planet CCRMA
> > > Audio Workstation, a Fedora Remix'[1], I and people like me would burn
> > > and carry around copies.  Especially if it were able to run as a live
> > > Linux from a CD, DVD, or USB thumb drive, I would give copies to all
> > > my musician and audio friends to boot to and try out.
> > >
> > > It's the difference between, "Already-committed so I am going to install
> > > and enable a repo," and "I don't know that Linux can work for me as a
> > > musician/producer/podcaster/etc."  I talk with far more of the latter
> > > at FOSS events, etc.
> > >
> > > I can't guarantee numbers, but I'm sure if you had an audio remix
> > > available that people knew about, the Fedora Ambassadors around the
> > > globe would start handing them out for the same reasons I said above.
> > > Karsten
> > > [1] Don't turn to me for naming, clearly. :)
> > >
> > > name:  Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > > team:                Red Hat Community Architecture
> > > uri:               http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > > gpg:                                       AD0E0C41
> > >
> > > music mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> >
> > music mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 03:27:50 +0100
> From: William Blackburn 
> Subject: [Fedora-music-list] 1. Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Karsten
>    Wade)
> To: 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > From: [e-mail]
> > Subject: music Digest, Vol 44, Issue 25
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:41:06 +0000
> >
> > Send music mailing list submissions to
> >    [e-mail]
>
> In responce to Karsten Wade,
>
> I think Karsten has made some very good points.  Why don't we go ahead and make a 'remix' and we can start collaborating and getting it up to a distributable .iso.  We want this to be something that we would install as opposed to installing the basic Fedora distro and then patching the kernel.  If we don't wanna use it, then chances are that others will feel the same way.  I also agree with a wiki article for Fedora musicians/podcasters. We do need the support of ambassadors and people who represent Fedora at conferences.  Unless there is some fundamental disagreements, maybe we should go forward with a CCRMA kernel remix.  Feedback please.
>
> -Bill (Fedora villager)
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    [e-mail]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    [e-mail]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of music digest..."
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> > Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Karsten Wade)
> > Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Karsten Wade)
> > Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Bernardo Barros)
> > Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Bernardo Barros)
> > Renamed sping page to be wiki-friendly (was	music spin
> > development. I am ready to test/help with the	audio spin.)
> > (Karsten Wade)
> > Re: [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin (Christopher R. Antila)
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:20:49 -0700
> > From: Karsten Wade 
> > Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 03:01:20PM -0400, Christopher Antila wrote:
> > > Maybe I'm way off-base here, and certainly I'm still very new to Fedora
> > > and the Audio Creation SIG, but a dedicated spin seems like something
> > > that you can't just sort of do.  We'd have to be at the level of these:
> > > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/
> >
> > I will point out that a Fedora Remix is a great way to get an alpha of
> > what would become a formal spin:
> >
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
> >
> > "Fedora Remix" is something you can call a product regardless of
> > what's in it, essentially.  There is a remix of Fedora called 'Omega
> > Linux' that is essentially Fedora+patent encumbered bits.
> >
> > So, one or a few people could put together e.g. "Planet CCRMA Live, a
> > Fedora Remix" by this weekend that does exactly what you say right now
> > JACK as default, realtime kernel, patent encumbered bits easy to
> >
> > access (such as a how to in the installation guide for it that says
> > what rpmfusion.org packages to install.)  Heck, you could use the
> > Fedora Installation Guide (or the quickstart version), rebrand it, and
> > add in all the parts that you need for this remix.
> >
> > Aside from having a cool remix of Fedora, what would you have?
> >
> > A proof point.  People could see right now what you are talking
> > about, and start talking about how things can be done in Fedora to
> > get equivalent functionality.  For example, people may need
> > convincing that you have the chops as a SIG to maintain an alternate
> > kernel; prove it by supporting a remix for a few releases.
> >
> > A short-term solution to get the best FOSS audio software out in
> > people's hands.
> >
> > Training grounds.  There is some heavy lifting to be done for a
> > spin, as you point out, and a remix is a legitimate way for people
> > to learn the same sets of skills needed for a formal spin.  In
> > particular I suspect getting more packagers trained and committed
> > will benefit from real people holding a real CD and thinking, "Wow,
> > how can I help make this better?"
> >
> > Something we can give out to start growing the interest.  I'll
> > commit to burning a spool of a Fedora audio remix to carry around
> > and hand out. Maybe someone will design a cool CD sleeve I can print
> > and glue.  All of this interest requires an actual ISO to burn, and
> > I know I'm not doing it myself.
> >
> > Makes a nice addition to an original "Fedora Musician's Guide" (or a
> > rebranded version of that to include all the how-to-get-MP3-support
> > bits.) ;-)
> > Karsten
> >
> > -- 
> > name:  Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > team:                Red Hat Community Architecture 
> > uri:               http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > gpg:                                       AD0E0C41
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> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:35:58 -0700
> > From: Karsten Wade 
> > Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin
> > To: [e-mail],	fedora-music-list
> >    
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:19:32AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> > > Same here as in the Fedora side, not enough manpower (and not enough
> > > demand, it is easy to install Fedora and then add a repo for any
> > > additional packages).
> >
> > I tend to agree, just wanted to reiterate my offer from another place
> > in this thread.  If there were enough interest to do 'Planet CCRMA
> > Audio Workstation, a Fedora Remix'[1], I and people like me would burn
> > and carry around copies.  Especially if it were able to run as a live
> > Linux from a CD, DVD, or USB thumb drive, I would give copies to all
> > my musician and audio friends to boot to and try out.
> >
> > It's the difference between, "Already-committed so I am going to install
> > and enable a repo," and "I don't know that Linux can work for me as a
> > musician/producer/podcaster/etc."  I talk with far more of the latter
> > at FOSS events, etc.
> >
> > I can't guarantee numbers, but I'm sure if you had an audio remix
> > available that people knew about, the Fedora Ambassadors around the
> > globe would start handing them out for the same reasons I said above.
> > Karsten
> > [1] Don't turn to me for naming, clearly. :)
> >
> > name:  Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > team:                Red Hat Community Architecture 
> > uri:               http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > gpg:                                       AD0E0C41
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> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:11:11 -0300
> > From: Bernardo Barros 
> > Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin
> > To: [e-mail], 	fedora-music-list
> >    
> > Message-ID:
> >    
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Why not make the Fedora Musician's Guide a wiki like project that
> > people with some free time could contribute with they know best? There
> > is already the FLOSS manual for Ardour and PureData that has already
> > done some work in this direction. And it is nice because you can make
> > a snapshot of the wiki and print a PDF from the website.
> >
> > 2010/7/30 Karsten Wade :
> > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:19:32AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> > > > Same here as in the Fedora side, not enough manpower (and not enough
> > > > demand, it is easy to install Fedora and then add a repo for any
> > > > additional packages).
> > >
> > > I tend to agree, just wanted to reiterate my offer from another place
> > > in this thread. ?If there were enough interest to do 'Planet CCRMA
> > > Audio Workstation, a Fedora Remix'[1], I and people like me would burn
> > > and carry around copies. ?Especially if it were able to run as a live
> > > Linux from a CD, DVD, or USB thumb drive, I would give copies to all
> > > my musician and audio friends to boot to and try out.
> > >
> > > It's the difference between, "Already-committed so I am going to install
> > > and enable a repo," and "I don't know that Linux can work for me as a
> > > musician/producer/podcaster/etc." ?I talk with far more of the latter
> > > at FOSS events, etc.
> > >
> > > I can't guarantee numbers, but I'm sure if you had an audio remix
> > > available that people knew about, the Fedora Ambassadors around the
> > > globe would start handing them out for the same reasons I said above.
> > > Karsten
> > > [1] Don't turn to me for naming, clearly. :)
> > >
> > > name: ?Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > > team: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Red Hat Community Architecture
> > > uri: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > > gpg: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? AD0E0C41
> > >
> > > music mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:11:11 -0300
> > From: Bernardo Barros 
> > Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin
> > To: [e-mail],	fedora-music-list
> >    
> > Message-ID:
> >    
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Why not make the Fedora Musician's Guide a wiki like project that
> > people with some free time could contribute with they know best? There
> > is already the FLOSS manual for Ardour and PureData that has already
> > done some work in this direction. And it is nice because you can make
> > a snapshot of the wiki and print a PDF from the website.
> >
> > 2010/7/30 Karsten Wade :
> > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:19:32AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> > > > Same here as in the Fedora side, not enough manpower (and not enough
> > > > demand, it is easy to install Fedora and then add a repo for any
> > > > additional packages).
> > >
> > > I tend to agree, just wanted to reiterate my offer from another place
> > > in this thread. ?If there were enough interest to do 'Planet CCRMA
> > > Audio Workstation, a Fedora Remix'[1], I and people like me would burn
> > > and carry around copies. ?Especially if it were able to run as a live
> > > Linux from a CD, DVD, or USB thumb drive, I would give copies to all
> > > my musician and audio friends to boot to and try out.
> > >
> > > It's the difference between, "Already-committed so I am going to install
> > > and enable a repo," and "I don't know that Linux can work for me as a
> > > musician/producer/podcaster/etc." ?I talk with far more of the latter
> > > at FOSS events, etc.
> > >
> > > I can't guarantee numbers, but I'm sure if you had an audio remix
> > > available that people knew about, the Fedora Ambassadors around the
> > > globe would start handing them out for the same reasons I said above.
> > > Karsten
> > > [1] Don't turn to me for naming, clearly. :)
> > >
> > > name: ?Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > > team: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Red Hat Community Architecture
> > > uri: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > > gpg: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? AD0E0C41
> > >
> > > music mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:10:47 -0700
> > From: Karsten Wade 
> > Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Renamed sping page to be wiki-friendly
> >    (was	music spin	development. I am ready to test/help with the	audio
> >    spin.)
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 05:54:45PM +1000, David Timms wrote:
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AudioCreationSpinDevelopment
> >
> > I just renamed that page, which sets up an automatic redirect.
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_creation_spin_development
> >
> > (Sorry for the after notice, but it shouldn't affect your usage, and
> > this is just part of the wiki gardening service.)
> >
> > The reasoning for descriptive names with spaces is explained here:
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NAMING
> >
> > The most relevant reason here is that a search for "audio" via the
> > MediaWiki search would not have turned up the page under the title
> > search.
> > Karsten
> >
> > -- 
> > name:  Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > team:                Red Hat Community Architecture 
> > uri:               http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > gpg:                                       AD0E0C41
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: not available
> > Type: application/pgp-signature
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> > Desc: not available
> > Url : http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/music/attachments/20100730/35f58905...
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:40:44 -0400
> > From: "Christopher R. Antila" 
> > Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] [PlanetCCRMA] Music Spin
> > To: Bernardo Barros 
> > Cc: fedora-music-list ,
> >    [e-mail]
> > Message-ID:
> >    
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > The Fedora Musicians' Guide is an official document being prepared by the
> > Documentation Project.  This carries much more weight than a wiki.
> >
> > That said, increased participation would be great, and the Musicians' Guide
> > is already on the Fedora wiki in my User: pages.  These could easily be
> > transferred into the real wiki, and maintained in sync or independently of
> > the official documentation, but I don't know if that sort of duplication is
> > a good idea.  What we certainly could do is write complementary chapters
> > with programs that aren't (yet) in the official guide.  Besides, as an
> > open-source project, the official guide itself is already like a wiki in
> > that people with free time can contribute with what they know best.
> >
> > As for the current state of the Guide, the (terrible) first draft has been
> > finished for a week, and is available on the wiki.  It's now been converted
> > to DocBook (the format used by the Fedora Docs website), and is stored in a
> > git repository on a fedorahosted.org account.  The plan is to post a draft
> > to the Fedora Docs website this Tuesday, incorporating many improvements.
> > I'll post a notice to this list when the draft is ready - the more people
> > who can read it and find errors, the better!
> >
> > The wiki version of the Musicians' Guide, from this point, is not the most
> > recent version.  Notices will be posted soon to indicate this.
> >
> > Christopher.
> >
> > On 30 July 2010 18:11, Bernardo Barros  wrote:
> > > Why not make the Fedora Musician's Guide a wiki like project that
> > > people with some free time could contribute with they know best? There
> > > is already the FLOSS manual for Ardour and PureData that has already
> > > done some work in this direction. And it is nice because you can make
> > > a snapshot of the wiki and print a PDF from the website.
> > >
> > > 2010/7/30 Karsten Wade :
> > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:19:32AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> > > > > Same here as in the Fedora side, not enough manpower (and not enough
> > > > > demand, it is easy to install Fedora and then add a repo for any
> > > > > additional packages).
> > > >
> > > > I tend to agree, just wanted to reiterate my offer from another place
> > > > in this thread.  If there were enough interest to do 'Planet CCRMA
> > > > Audio Workstation, a Fedora Remix'[1], I and people like me would burn
> > > > and carry around copies.  Especially if it were able to run as a live
> > > > Linux from a CD, DVD, or USB thumb drive, I would give copies to all
> > > > my musician and audio friends to boot to and try out.
> > > >
> > > > It's the difference between, "Already-committed so I am going to install
> > > > and enable a repo," and "I don't know that Linux can work for me as a
> > > > musician/producer/podcaster/etc."  I talk with far more of the latter
> > > > at FOSS events, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I can't guarantee numbers, but I'm sure if you had an audio remix
> > > > available that people knew about, the Fedora Ambassadors around the
> > > > globe would start handing them out for the same reasons I said above.
> > > > Karsten
> > > > [1] Don't turn to me for naming, clearly. :)
> > > >
> > > > name:  Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
> > > > team:                Red Hat Community Architecture
> > > > uri:               http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
> > > > gpg:                                       AD0E0C41
> > > >
> > > > music mailing list
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> > >
> > > music mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/music/attachments/20100730/39dd03e9...
> >
> > music mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> >
> > End of music Digest, Vol 44, Issue 25
>  	   		  
>
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>
> music mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
>
> End of music Digest, Vol 44, Issue 26

music Digest, Vol 44, Issue 26

[Development discussions related to Fedora]

On 31/07/10 12:46, William Blackburn wrote:
... 650 + useless quoted lines erased ;-)
> I have one question.   Wouldn't the real time kernel be compromised when
> using a live .iso?  I am new to real time pre-emption so you might need
> to dumb it down for me :).

The kernel is loaded into memory, and stays there. The trouble would
come if you tried to store your audio data on a CD, or start up another
application from scratch from the disc, in realtime (that won't happen).

For me the idea of dual spins is ideal:
1. showcase what you can do with only fedora
2. state of the art everything that fits within say 2GB or so.