Jamendo presentation to fedora-music

[Laurent KRATZ]

Hi list,

I had a nice chat with Greg DeKoenigsberg some days ago. He kindly
propose to join this mailing-list. So here am I.

I would like to present our project Jamendo (sorry for the ad Greg asked ;) ).
http://www.jamendo.com/en/

Jamendo is an internet platform that distribute to a large scale
Creative Commons licenced music. The original thing from jamendo, is
that we distribute the music using P2P technology, in particular, we
use BitTorrent and eMule/eDonkey networks, thus reducing our bandwidth
needs.
http://www.jamendo.com/en/static/concept/

We also integrate things "à la mode" like tags, ajax functions for
recommendations, even a spy "à la digg". We use the power of social
networking to filter the CC content submitted by artists.
http://www.jamendo.com/en/?p=tags
http://www.jamendo.com/en/spy/

There's no chart on jamendo. Your taste, your rating, peer reviews,
number of downloads, help you find surprisingly good music.

We just crossed the symbolic line of 1400 different complete albums
online, we distribute 300.000 complete albums per month with P2P
technology (hi-fi with no ads), we have 1 million streaming song
previews (low-fi and ad supported) per month. The album base is
growing exponentially. We provide both MP3 and OGG !

The albums you find on Jamendo gather all kind of music and represent
many countries such as France, Spain, the United States, Canada, the
United Kingdom, Belgium, Italy, Japan, Chile, Australia, Israel and
recently New Zealand. More than 20.000 members have already registered
on the platform.
http://www.jamendo.com/en/?p=stats

Part of our software is published on sourceforge. Volonteered have
developped amarok plug-ins, firefox seach plug in ... other will come
...

We have a pretty simple api :
http://wiki.jamendo.com/index.php/EnMusicApi

Voilà ...

So dear list, what is your feeling about this ?

-- 
Laurent KRATZ
CEO Jamendo

PEERMAJOR
Technoport Schlassgoart
66, rue de Luxembourg
L-4221 ESCH sur ALZETTE
LUXEMBOURG
T: [phone]
F: [phone]
G: [phone]
http://www.jamendo.com
mailto:[e-mail]

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

OK, looks like the list is quiet-ish, so let me say what I think.  :)

Issue #1, and what I think is most important for Fedora users: the number
of torrent seeds available for Ogg users is quite low.  I'd like to 
propose two mechanisms for dealing with this, in the fairly near future:

a. Offer some Fedora infrastucture to help seed Ogg files.  I can put this 
question in front of the board.  Strategic investment in a couple of 
servers could boost the availability of Ogg files significantly.

b. Getting bittorrent into Fedora default installations.  I'm already 
having discussions with the board on this topic.

So, Laurent, interested to hear what you think of this idea.  And what 
anyone else thinks, for that matter.  :)

--g

-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Laurent KRATZ wrote:

>  Hi list,
>  
>  I had a nice chat with Greg DeKoenigsberg some days ago. He kindly
>  propose to join this mailing-list. So here am I.
>  
>  I would like to present our project Jamendo (sorry for the ad Greg asked ;) ).
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/
>  
>  Jamendo is an internet platform that distribute to a large scale
>  Creative Commons licenced music. The original thing from jamendo, is
>  that we distribute the music using P2P technology, in particular, we
>  use BitTorrent and eMule/eDonkey networks, thus reducing our bandwidth
>  needs.
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/static/concept/
>  
>  We also integrate things "� la mode" like tags, ajax functions for
>  recommendations, even a spy "� la digg". We use the power of social
>  networking to filter the CC content submitted by artists.
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/?p=tags
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/spy/
>  
>  There's no chart on jamendo. Your taste, your rating, peer reviews,
>  number of downloads, help you find surprisingly good music.
>  
>  We just crossed the symbolic line of 1400 different complete albums
>  online, we distribute 300.000 complete albums per month with P2P
>  technology (hi-fi with no ads), we have 1 million streaming song
>  previews (low-fi and ad supported) per month. The album base is
>  growing exponentially. We provide both MP3 and OGG !
>  
>  The albums you find on Jamendo gather all kind of music and represent
>  many countries such as France, Spain, the United States, Canada, the
>  United Kingdom, Belgium, Italy, Japan, Chile, Australia, Israel and
>  recently New Zealand. More than 20.000 members have already registered
>  on the platform.
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/?p=stats
>  
>  Part of our software is published on sourceforge. Volonteered have
>  developped amarok plug-ins, firefox seach plug in ... other will come
>  ...
>  
>  We have a pretty simple api :
>  http://wiki.jamendo.com/index.php/EnMusicApi
>  
>  Voil� ...
>  
>  So dear list, what is your feeling about this ?
>  
>  -- 
>  Laurent KRATZ
>  CEO Jamendo
>  
>  PEERMAJOR
>  Technoport Schlassgoart
>  66, rue de Luxembourg
>  L-4221 ESCH sur ALZETTE
>  LUXEMBOURG
>  T: [phone]
>  F: [phone]
>  G: [phone]
>  http://www.jamendo.com
>  mailto:[e-mail]
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Fedora-music-list mailing list
>  Fedora-music-list(a)redhat.com
>  http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
>

[Aaron Sherman]

On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 11:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>  OK, looks like the list is quiet-ish, so let me say what I think. 
> :)
>  
>  Issue #1, and what I think is most important for Fedora users: the number
>  of torrent seeds available for Ogg users is quite low.  I'd like to 
>  propose two mechanisms for dealing with this, in the fairly near future: 
BT is actually the worst case scenario for large, low-interest files
(but it's perfect for large, high-interest files).

By way of comparison, a certain production house leaked a copy of the
pilot for a TV show because it had been canceled and they wanted to try
to drum up some grass-roots support. It didn't work, and the show never
saw the air.

A year later, I tried to pull down the torrent. After a day of waiting
for the download, I fired up gtk-gnutella. The search took an hour to
find the file, and the download finished before the torrent by about 12
hours. The torrent was mostly idle, waiting for a client who had the
missing bits of the file.

This has been my fairly repeatable result with old operating system
versions, strange platform ISOs, folk music that's been released, and so
on.

My theory as to why is that bittorrent has a small chunk size and
randomizes access. Gnutella has a larger chunk size and while it
randomizes the first chunk from each available swarm source, it then
continues linearly through the file as long as the next chunk is not
already downloaded or being fetched from elsewhere; it then applies a
heuristic that I haven't fully looked into (and may be client-specific),
but the net result is that I almost never find a file on a Gnutella
network for which less than 100% of the original file is available.

>  a. Offer some Fedora infrastucture to help seed Ogg files.  I can put
> this 
>  question in front of the board.  Strategic investment in a couple of 
>  servers could boost the availability of Ogg files significantly. 
If you do so, it doesn't hurt to provide the same service for gnutella.
There's a server-only called quack out there that serves roughly the
same purpose as a tracker.

It's not in extras right now, but it could be with minimal effort.

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Aaron Sherman wrote:

>  My theory as to why is that bittorrent has a small chunk size and
>  randomizes access. Gnutella has a larger chunk size and while it
>  randomizes the first chunk from each available swarm source, it then
>  continues linearly through the file as long as the next chunk is not
>  already downloaded or being fetched from elsewhere; it then applies a
>  heuristic that I haven't fully looked into (and may be client-specific),
>  but the net result is that I almost never find a file on a Gnutella
>  network for which less than 100% of the original file is available. 
>  > a. Offer some Fedora infrastucture to help seed Ogg files.  I
> can put this 
>  > question in front of the board.  Strategic investment in a couple of 
>  > servers could boost the availability of Ogg files significantly.
>  
>  If you do so, it doesn't hurt to provide the same service for gnutella.
>  There's a server-only called quack out there that serves roughly the
>  same purpose as a tracker. 
Jamendo supports BitTorrent and eMule/eDonkey.  The goal for making these
seeds available is to support users of Jamendo.

I don't know much about eMule/eDonkey, though.

--g

-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------

[Laurent KRATZ]

Hi Aaron,

Aaah ... We could certainly argue during hours about the best
technology to use to distribute jamendo's archives (50Mb files) ...
(and we do internally at jamendo ;) )

The main reason we promote both eMule/eDonkey and BitTorrent, is
popularity, demand ... Music lovers, teens and artists use the jamendo
service because they don't have to install another software, they
already have eMule, uTorrent, or azureus, no need to install another
tool.

eMule in Europe is by far the most popular P2P tool. And BitTorrent
traffic is supposed to be half of the P2P two third of world's traffic
...

So despite BitTorrent is best suited for big popular files, we propose
this option. Half of our download are BT, the other eMule/eDonkey.

We would like to add Gnutella support, but this require another set of
disks and server, and frankly, we do not receive that much demand for
that.

Concerning seeding some jamendo ogg archives on some fedora servers
that would be very cool ! It's pretty simple to do we've developped a
jamseeder. Basically, it's a python bittorrent client. You assign it
an upload bandwidth, a disk space limit, and it does the job, asking
(xmlrpc) our servers which files needs more seeding.

The sources are here :
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=127180&package_...

The documentation is minimalist, read config.py :(

if you want to look further hosting of eMule/eDonkey/KAD traffic, we
do that using aMule, don't know if it's in the extras of fedora.

don't know about quack, i'll have a look to it ...

--
Laurent

On 8/18/06, Aaron Sherman <ajs(a)ajs.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 11:27 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>  > OK, looks like the list is quiet-ish, so let me say what I think.  :)
>  >
>  > Issue #1, and what I think is most important for Fedora users: the number
>  > of torrent seeds available for Ogg users is quite low.  I'd like to
>  > propose two mechanisms for dealing with this, in the fairly near future:
>
>  BT is actually the worst case scenario for large, low-interest files
>  (but it's perfect for large, high-interest files).
>
>  By way of comparison, a certain production house leaked a copy of the
>  pilot for a TV show because it had been canceled and they wanted to try
>  to drum up some grass-roots support. It didn't work, and the show never
>  saw the air.
>
>  A year later, I tried to pull down the torrent. After a day of waiting
>  for the download, I fired up gtk-gnutella. The search took an hour to
>  find the file, and the download finished before the torrent by about 12
>  hours. The torrent was mostly idle, waiting for a client who had the
>  missing bits of the file.
>
>  This has been my fairly repeatable result with old operating system
>  versions, strange platform ISOs, folk music that's been released, and so
>  on.
>
>  My theory as to why is that bittorrent has a small chunk size and
>  randomizes access. Gnutella has a larger chunk size and while it
>  randomizes the first chunk from each available swarm source, it then
>  continues linearly through the file as long as the next chunk is not
>  already downloaded or being fetched from elsewhere; it then applies a
>  heuristic that I haven't fully looked into (and may be client-specific),
>  but the net result is that I almost never find a file on a Gnutella
>  network for which less than 100% of the original file is available.
>
>  > a. Offer some Fedora infrastucture to help seed Ogg files.  I can put this
>  > question in front of the board.  Strategic investment in a couple of
>  > servers could boost the availability of Ogg files significantly.
>
>  If you do so, it doesn't hurt to provide the same service for gnutella.
>  There's a server-only called quack out there that serves roughly the
>  same purpose as a tracker.
>
>  It's not in extras right now, but it could be with minimal effort.
>
>
>

Fwd: Jamendo presentation to fedora-music

[Laurent KRATZ]

Ooops quack server ?
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=22865
April 2001 ?

looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnutella : MLNet or gIFT
should be a better candidate to do gnutella command line mass hosting
?

--
Laurent